[discussion] Sunday 2nd

[Arumos]

nice pic gear that was just before we moved to alb str relic i think, loads of albs were already there and a lot of us died resulting in a wipe, the lag was pretty sick.

PS: even spotted my chubby self in that pic (pink gov)

 

[Soulja_IA_]

Was not a whinge was an explanation of how some people in Albion feel about yesterday. Which I thought was the topic?

Now you getting the SAME Feeling that Hibs/Mids Get when the minority of 00:00 cet - 06:00 cet Guild that come and get Relics at them times of the morning.

Does it feel good Javai I can see it doesn't.

Soulja

 

[Flimgoblin]

Now you getting the SAME Feeling that Hibs/Mids Get when the minority of 00:00 cet - 06:00 cet Guild that come and get Relics at them times of the morning.

Does it feel good Javai I can see it doesn't.

Soulja

stop trolling the alb forums.

At least it's technically the "enemy" doing that

 

[Javai]

Now you getting the SAME Feeling that Hibs/Mids Get when the minority of 00:00 cet - 06:00 cet Guild that come and get Relics at them times of the morning.

Does it feel good Javai I can see it doesn't.

Soulja

It's not even close to the SAME feeling, one you can do nothing about the other is about people choosing to do nothing. I'm sure both feel bad but they are far from the same.

 

[Killswitch]

Okay...my thoughts on the matter (and I don't care if you don't care...you don't have to read them, dumbass )

I was on the ML rush and it was good fun, well run and everyone had a laugh. Rod kindly put aside several hours of his hungover Sunday to run this to help people through the MLs. This had been planned for a while and tbh the Hib/Mid opportunism was to be expected. Now, this happens every time a large-scale raid is advertised and run in Albion and we'd probably do the same if we knew there was going to be a 200-person BG doing MLs in Mid/Hib (and maybe we will, who knows).

Soooooo...let's imagine that Eggy had instead decided that we'd break off the ML raid to defend the Frontiers and then go back to the ML raid when we'd secured the keeps. I imagine we'd still be on ML3 now. Everyone on the raid (myself included) had the option of leaving to defend, but if enough had left to save the relics, there wouldn't have been enough left to complete the BG steps (not dressed in zero AF gear anyway!).

There are two points of view here...one is the more role-playing view (defend the realm!) and one is the more gamer view (improve my toon). Although in zerg-vs-zerg MLs aren't so important, a lot of players want to run with friends or in a FG and in those situations, MLs are vital to the group performance. I'd say MLs are as important to a group as RAs or Template nowadays.

The relics can be taken back (ignoring the 'reset' excuse which I think is irrelevant) and it can be spontaneous and fun to do it, unlike Old Frontiers. All you need to do is take a keep. Favail's RvR BGs have been doing this every night for the last month at least.

I'm not alone (I think!) when I say that I appreciate the efforts of people like Favail and Kagato in defending our realm, keeping our relics and keeps safe and generally annoying the living beejesus out of Mids and Hibs. I also appreciate the work Eggy has done in making many of our realm-mates more effective in RvR and allowing them to experience some PvE gameplay they might never have the chance to experience otherwise. Most importantly, I don't value one more than the other.

I'm definitely missing that 20% magic damage...but if the merc I'm running with now has some AE interrupts, then that's good. Now, if Eggy had started whining and bitching about people leaving his ML rush to defend the realm and how they're selfish little sods who are ruining and wasting all his hard work, then he'd be a jerk. I'm sure everyone can agree with that. So what is different about the way the other 'side' are behaving?

Let's just get on with it, get those relics back and enjoy the extra Speedwarps and Magical Wood our realm can now dish out in defence of our Realm.

[root@phobos src]# make love not war
make: *** No rule to make target `love'.  Stop.

 

[Nerve]

It's not even close to the SAME feeling, one you can do nothing about the other is about people choosing to do nothing.

They were not doing nothing, they were on an ML rush, something that is a pain in the ass to get organised and for several of us the only way to bend real life around getting some MLs sorted. Hibs and Mids know this and hence chose the right timing to come get the relics, albeit a bit lame. Stop blaming the albs for grasping the opportunity to get their chars RvR-worthy. Get over it. Maybe pour that negative energy into organising a takeback, although that'll be quite useless with the incoming cluster-reset.

Nuff said.

 

[scorge]

However, the victory on sunday has given a huge moral boost to mid and i wouldn't be suprised if u see a lot more trying rvr

Still find it a little lame that mids only RvR when they have relics, not saying thats everybody, just those FOTM l33tz who dont like it when they dont get there bonus

 

[Jeffery]

ok, lets be honest here albs

U all know that invitein people to the grp then finding out they have no ML's ( I.E a merc with no ML's or a cleric) then it can very well get annoying ? true

but everyone can do with ML's and not relics ... 1V1 ML= useful .... FG V FG - ML = MORE USEFUL

FG V ZERG Speed warp pwns for a run away then a good come back for a mezz.... lets face it we need Master levels as much as we do relics .... just both of them need to be setup up resonably well I.E u cant stick someone who is a noob out on a ML to lead us all

and u cant do the same with a relic .. both need good leaders... but ofcourse theres not that many good ML leaders around atm and its not always done


RVR is done more then PVE and we all know that so it has to be done or u cant get it as often as u can go out make a zerg and go

Nuff said

 

[Drav]

What people don't understand seems to be the efforts of people like Kagato over weeks to keep the relics to then discover that actually there are 200 of your realm 'mates' who don't actually care.

/agree with that tbh, it is their choice, and eggys not to blame, just a shame tbh, makes ya feel rather low....Wished Id have been awake to defend, but was expecting another AC and stayed up late to see if my suspiscions were correct, not much a rr3 inf can do against an AC force but I wouldve tried. Not against ACs either they can be fun to fight against.

Just dont quit Kagato, just speaking as a guy who played an arms stubbornly for 2 years until packing it in for stealth RvR, a lotve us have a lot've respect for ya, and it'd be a shame if you quit.

Albion will pick itself up again, mids/hibs may have relics but when Alb hits back, it hits back hard.

 

[Soulja_IA_]

stop trolling the alb forums.

At least it's technically the "enemy" doing that

lol gotta laugh at this all BIG gratzee threads when Albs do 4 in morning raids but because we Did it when you were all on you ML it Lame.

200+ on you ML raid and We are lame because we took you Relics.

At least you Had a Choice Flim wether to defend or stay you chose the latter WE don't get that choice with you 4 in morning crews.

Soulja

 

[Yunio]

lol gotta laugh at this all BIG gratzee threads when Albs do 4 in morning raids but because we Did it when you were all on you ML it Lame.

200+ on you ML raid and We are lame because we took you Relics.

At least you Had a Choice Flim wether to defend or stay you chose the latter WE don't get that choice with you 4 in morning crews.

Soulja

Actually.. noone is forcing you to go to sleep

On a more serious note, its a pity we lost the 20% bonus but no biggy ( for me!). I prefer fg fights anyway and maybe we can get some I-rvr again in Albion and hopefully it will bring out more groups and now with almost even playfield!

Despite enjoying the bonuses I'd prefer the relics to be neutral and no bonus to anyone.

The only thing i really cry for is the 20% heal reduction QQ !

 

[scorge]

lol gotta laugh at this all BIG gratzee threads when Albs do 4 in morning raids but because we Did it when you were all on you ML it Lame.

200+ on you ML raid and We are lame because we took you Relics.

At least you Had a Choice Flim wether to defend or stay you chose the latter WE don't get that choice with you 4 in morning crews.

Soulja

i dont think taking relics is lame at all what i think is lame is that certin mids dont like playing without them

I think it was good tactics for mids/hibs to take relics when half the alb population were on eggy's ML's. Like you said people had a choice to rvr or not, just like people have a choice to rvr at 4 in the morning or not

 

[Flimgoblin]

lol gotta laugh at this all BIG gratzee threads when Albs do 4 in morning raids but because we Did it when you were all on you ML it Lame.

200+ on you ML raid and We are lame because we took you Relics.

At least you Had a Choice Flim wether to defend or stay you chose the latter WE don't get that choice with you 4 in morning crews.

Soulja

don't know if you've noticed or not but this is an excal>alb thread discussing the _albion_ response...

absolutely nothing in here about "omfg lame mids!" but feel free to keep imagining it

Just go troll somewhere else.

 

[Golena]

We could all of left the ML rush, yes. Ofc the people who organised stuff around the ML rush would of just got shafted. It could of been organised for another time, yes. The mids/hibs would of attacked the relics during that event as well i'm sure. How many ML raids need to be canceled before it becomes worth actually losing them?

Defending the relics is worthwhile.. I'd agree with this 100%. What I don't agree with is that we should drop everything regardless 100% of the time when a relic comes under attack.

Albion can't hold 6 relics 100% of the time. To think we can is deluding ourselves. Those who actually believe that we can take 6 relics, then never lose them under any circumstances, is simply insane. The only way to do this would be to simply state that no large scale PvE events will ever happen in albion again, that we will all share our home phone numbers so we can be woken up/dragged back from work, when a raid happens. You really think we can have 6 relics and run 200 people PvE events at the same time without losing them? Personally I like having relics, I also enjoy defending them.

BUT (and it's a big but) i'm not going to give up everything else in the game I enjoy for them. It's not just about albions getting ML's so they can take part in rvr. It's not about the fact some people spent 2 days repairing a keep. It's about the fact that there's other aspect to the game than just defending relics. They arn't life or death as some people would believe. If we are going to force ourselves to cancel every event run to rush to the frontiers, we are losing much more than 20% heal bonus! They are also things that can be taken back. While defending relics is fun and can bring a realm together, so can taking them back.

I wonder how many of the people yelling at those in the ML rush didn't rush to go defend eras tower 1 last time it got attacked by a FG mids. I didn't see many of the people insta rvr'ing in hib all porting out to defend that alb tower. What does that say to the person who repaired the door on that tower? Was there effort in vein as well. You were probably busy rvr'ing with your fg in hib tho, and couldn't be bothered to port back for a few rp's? Where was the realm spirit then. Mids had a port into alb for an entire night before the relic raid even took place. If you value the relics that highly, so that we should drop EVERYTHING in order to go defend them. What the hell were you doing going to sleep while mid had a port into alb! Why is sleep more important to you, and a fun PvE event can't be more important to me?

If it was 1 ML rush that we had to give up then yes, we should of gone to defend them. But it wouldn't be 1 ML rush. It would be 1 ML rush this week, 1 ML rush next week, 1 ML rush the week after. There's a point it stops being worth it, and that point for me was yesterday.

 

[Javai]

I wonder how many of the people yelling at those in the ML rush didn't rush to go defend eras tower 1 last time it got attacked by a FG mids. I didn't see many of the people insta rvr'ing in hib all porting out to defend that alb tower. What does that say to the person who repaired the door on that tower? Was there effort in vein as well. You were probably busy rvr'ing with your fg in hib tho, and couldn't be bothered to port back for a few rp's? Where was the realm spirit then. Mids had a port into alb for an entire night before the relic raid even took place. If you value the relics that highly, so that we should drop EVERYTHING in order to go defend them. What the hell were you doing going to sleep while mid had a port into alb! Why is sleep more important to you, and a fun PvE event can't be more important to me?

Actually the people complaining (which I guess is me and Kagato mostly) are precisely the people defending our towers, I'd been up til 1am the day before trying to reclaim Erasleigh after retaking Berkstead earlier in the evening, it failed due to a much larger Mid force, there is a point where you sleep because even an OP Sorc and a BB can't take a keep from 3fgs Mids.

 

[rampant]

don't know if you've noticed or not but this is an excal>alb thread discussing the _albion_ response....

Well ive set my stall out to my fellow guildies about the response we need to make as a guild. Its all about getting us organised and ensuring that we have at least 2fg's to put out, to help counter the hibgard alliance that is currently invading our fair soil.

 

[Golena]

Actually the people complaining (which I guess is me and Kagato mostly) are precisely the people defending our towers, I'd been up til 1am the day before trying to reclaim Erasleigh after retaking Berkstead earlier in the evening, it failed due to a much larger Mid force, there is a point where you sleep because even an OP Sorc and a BB can't take a keep from 3fgs Mids.

Favail, maybe i'll try a different approach.
In the 2 days before you hit RR10, if a PvE event that someone had put time and effort into arranging (maybe they had pre-farmed a drop for it) had been lacking enough people to allow it to suceed. Would you:
a) Have taken your RvR group to go help out on the event.
b) Have turned round and said OMG your right i'm sorry, if they had joined your rvr /bg and given you a load of spouted crap, which is what albs (not you i'll add) did to the albs on the ML rush.

I'm not having a go, just trying to get people to see both sides, so that we can stop ranting at each other in this rather childish way.

 

[Javai]

Favail, maybe i'll try a different approach.
In the 2 days before you hit RR10, if a PvE event that someone had put time and effort into arranging (maybe they had pre-farmed a drop for it) had been lacking enough people to allow it to suceed. Would you:
a) Have taken your RvR group to go help out on the event.
b) Have turned round and said OMG your right i'm sorry, if they had joined your rvr /bg and given you a load of spouted crap, which is what albs (not you i'll add) did to the albs on the ML rush.

I'm not having a go, just trying to get people to see both sides, so that we can stop ranting at each other in this rather childish way.

Well let's see I was 1k away from 9L9 when I spent 1.5 hours repairing the walls at Sursbrooke - the day after that Hibs took that relic.

I understand perfectly both sides of the argument, I have stopped rvr'ing in the past to go and help on ML pre-steps (in fact in the days before I dinged rr10 I ran ML8 group steps for some in guild so they could attend a planned ML9 raid). I've also planned and run alot of MLs myself - I don't personally like the ML rush idea so I don't go but I understand people want to get them out of the way.

And actually you are trying to get people to see the side of those that stayed on the ML raid I am trying to get people to understand and accept why those that have spent untold hours defending may feel a little betrayed by those who chose not to defend on this occasion.

 

[Flimgoblin]

pve raid benefits the people on it...

in theory defending the realm is for the good of everyone in albion
(call me a roleplayer)
I'm not talking about the bonuses here (though they are nice of course) just the whole "realm pride" thing.

There was more than a full bg of people at this ML raid - I'd be surprised if everyone there was one of the poor unfortunates that can't get to an ML. That's not an excuse for everyone.

Preferring to do an ML raid to defending the realm is an excuse, but you should know you've let everyone down who's been out for hours repairing walls or retaking keeps. You've not murdered their firstborn or anything but you've killed a little bit of that "for the realm".

I'm not totally convinced by the "well they'd just attack next ML raid". I can see the logic behind it but I think if an angry BG filled with people already logged in and aware of the situation turned up in the frontier and trounced whichever enemy was there I think they'd probably stop thinking of public ML-raid times as being "easy pickings". Yes it'd be a monstrous hassle the first few times but maybe worth it once or twice. Something worth thinking about for the future anyway.

Even with continuing the raid (for those poor souls who can only make the odd ml raid once every millenium or just because a roleplaying raid in silly hats is really quite unique and should have been fun for all of albion or because you've spent 5 hours hungover on a train specifically for this raid!) surely a few of the people there could have come along - I imagine one or two did but we coulda done with more if we'd had 20-30 more we might have been able to keep one of our relic walls closed...

I wasn't in the raid bg to see any of the flaming though I imagine it wasn't pretty and just got everyone's back up - did anyone at any point ask the MLers nicely to come help?

There's not an awful lot of point in our whole realm falling out over this. Relics are meant to move around after all, bit disappointing we lost ours with so few albs around. It's not like albion's unable to live without relics - had plenty of that in OF

 

[Golena]

If the mids announced they were doing a relic raid at 3am tommorow morning for the last relic, could I be justified in feeling "let down" by the people who didn't set an alarmclock to come defend, or used the excuse, I have to work tommorow.

It's not a question of if the relics could or should of been defended. It's that a few select individuals feel they have the right to hurl insults at the people who chose not to defend and that that's ok. It's those people who are tearing albion apart.
If next week I arrange an ML raid and don't get the numbers required, then I come here and flame the RvRers for not showing up to help people in albion get the required ML abilities and accuse you of destroying the realm. How many sensible replies do you think i'm going to get?

 

[Boobz]

I havent read the replies before this, and im not going to. Im not going to flame or blame, just call it as i see it.

1) I was honestly gutted yesterday to lose relics the way we did. Some may say "its just a game" but i know many out there do not want to see their realm get raped like we did on Sunday. Seriously, when i logged on we were already getting owned, and even by 1pm there cant have been more than 40 of us to defend against not one, but TWO massive forces, running amock all over the Frontier.

2) I have no beef with Eggy, i dont honestly believe it was his fault either. What i do believe is that Eggy could have said 6 words in that BG and we would have had 150+ Albs helping the rest of us defend their realm. Fuck all that "its gunna be reset" bullshit, this is a roleplaying game, not Counter Strike, and i for one will always want to defend what we have, regardless of how little that may mean to some here.
So no, im not blaming Eggy, even though he felt the need to carry on leading his ML raid, that was what 200 Albs wanted him to do i guess, so in reality, im disapointed that the other Albs dont have any interest in our relics.
All we would have needed was half that BG to mount a successful defense, or a quarter of it to put up a damned good fight.


There was a day when people would drop EVERYTHING to defend their realm, and im not just talking about shitty ML's. Im talking about suiciding at Pygmy Goblins when you are level 40+ and losing hours worth of XP in the process. I guess those days are gone, but some of us still have the same expectations.


The question running through my mind all throughout Sunday was "would it hurt the ML BG to drop what they are doing for an hour and help us clean up a bit ? "
We all know what the answer to that was.

5 Relics in one day. That is the worst thing i have ever witnessed in this game, and the fact that some here are trivialising it is sad. Dont give me that " its a game" bullshit. Half of you spend 8 hours a day playing it. Thats not a game, its a second life.

 

[Appollo]

I have hit the nail on the head

 

[Dafft]

Who gives an honest damn well crap bout relics? - They can be taken anytime whereas ML's cant be.

I say that although Eggy may be a wanker to some of you, he took the time to run most of excal's ML raids since the release of ToA. ML's arent something whereby he wakes up & decides, Hmm, what we going to do today? I know I'll run a ML rush raid.

My only complaint is about the ***** Mids who took almost all our keeps & therefore ruined any decent chance of I-RvR

 

[Stallker]

This may just be me, but i think half the fun of having relics is losing them and taking them back again. Weve had all 6 relics for a very long time and the mids and hibs must have been a lil down of being run down by 10 fg albs with every relic eveyr nite with no real prospect of returning theirs to their relic keeps. So I think in the long run although there is a lil rift in the alb camp atm this loss of relics will be a good thing bringing hopefully more hibs and mids out into rvr and bringing some big style keeptake rvr back into the game. Think of it as a challenge not as a complete loss tbh.

Just my point of view.

 

[Javai]

.

It's not a question of if the relics could or should of been defended. It's that a few select individuals feel they have the right to hurl insults at the people who chose not to defend and that that's ok. It's those people who are tearing albion apart.

You'll find similar insults were hurled in the opposite direction too.

 

[Belomar]

There was a day when people would drop EVERYTHING to defend their realm, and im not just talking about shitty ML's.

Very well said, Boobz.