Ding Dong, the Witch is dead...

[Scouse]

I think that's a bit of Labour emotional predjudice there Calaen.

I may not agree with what he says, but he's obviously not stupid.

 

[ECA]

I think that's a bit of Labour emotional predjudice there Calaen.

I may not agree with what he says, but he's obviously not stupid.

He's a bigoted woman.

 

[Scouse]

Lol

 

[Ch3tan]

He's a bigoted woman.

Cal? Yes we've known he's a bigoted woman for quite some time.

 

[Calaen]

Cal? Yes we've known he's a bigoted woman for quite some time.

Bitch

 

[dysfunction]

I have to say Cameron and Clegg are starting to make me feel ill with all their double act at the moment. It's a thin version of TweedleDee and TweedleDum

Also...
101 reasons to love our Tory government | Politics | The Guardian

 

[rynnor]

Also...
101 reasons to love our Tory government | Politics | The Guardian

Wow - that list really sucks - the Grauniad is a shadow of its old self.

 

[Calaen]

gogogo super vat increase!!!!

 

[dysfunction]

Ah thats how they are going to afford their hole in the budget...instead of increasing NI they up VAT...

 

[Tom]

Hopefully they'll up the retirement age too, our public sector pension deficit is stupendous.

 

[Scouse]

Hopefully they'll up the retirement age too, our public sector pension deficit is stupendous.

Why hopefully?

Lets face it. Having elderly people is a cross we should be happy to bear - considering we're all going there sometime.

Just because it's financially inconvenient to have old people doesn't mean that we should be moving the retirement age closer and closer to the time when it's a bloody good chance you're gonna die soon...

 

[rynnor]

Just because it's financially inconvenient to have old people doesn't mean that we should be moving the retirement age closer and closer to the time when it's a bloody good chance you're gonna die soon...

Why not - thats how it started? It was never meant to fund you for decades after your working life - its just too damned expensive to do it.

 

[nath]

Lets face it. Having elderly people is a cross we should be happy to bear - considering we're all going there sometime.

People are living longer than they used to though aren't they.

 

[Embattle]

Hopefully they'll up the retirement age too, our public sector pension deficit is stupendous.

How about bring in line the public services retirement age to match the private.

 

[Tom]

Why hopefully?

Lets face it. Having elderly people is a cross we should be happy to bear - considering we're all going there sometime.

Just because it's financially inconvenient to have old people doesn't mean that we should be moving the retirement age closer and closer to the time when it's a bloody good chance you're gonna die soon...

Simply because we can't afford to pay people to sit around and not contribute to the economy for 20-30 years.

 

[Embattle]

I tend to think it is more of problem to keep your job at that age rather than not wanting one.

 

[DaGaffer]

I tend to think it is more of problem to keep your job at that age rather than not wanting one.

Agree. A lot of older people want to work after NRA but aren't much impressed with the indignity of being a lollipop lady or working in B&Q.

 

[Scouse]

Why not - thats how it started? It was never meant to fund you for decades after your working life - its just too damned expensive to do it.

Simply because we can't afford to pay people to sit around and not contribute to the economy for 20-30 years.

This is capitalism.

We've got an economic system that forces people into this situation and we're honour bound to provide for these people (and ourselves) later into life.


If we don't like paying for it then we need to change our basic economic rules to make it easier for people to accumulate wealth so they can provide for themselves into the future.

As it is, by the time 50 years has passed with an ideal 2% inflation all the money people earned at the beginning of their lives is worthless.

It's not always been this way. People used to work and accumulate wealth. The wealth didn't stop being valuable simply through passage of time.

If we're going to run this dogshit fraudulent theiving system that concentrates wealth in the hands of the very few by stealing it out of the mouths of the masses then we can at least fund for their old age.


What staggers me is that people don't see it

 

[Scouse]

I tend to think it is more of problem to keep your job at that age rather than not wanting one.

Agreed. Strongly.

However, companies don't like keeping on the old because they're prone to long bouts of illness. They'd rather bin them off because it's much cheaper, and cheaper is the all-important bottom line.

Of course, if we changed capitalism so money wasn't quite the be-all and end-all then people would be able to keep their jobs, keep their dignity and fund themselves into old age.


Of course, directors of companies (like I used to be) wouldn't be able to take quite as much money out of the mouths of their slaves. Sorry, employees.

Oh, I get it. I deserved to take big dividends because I worked harder and was much smarter than the people below me. Or something... Lol!

 

[Calaen]

I agree with you Scouse!

 

[rynnor]

It's not always been this way. People used to work and accumulate wealth. The wealth didn't stop being valuable simply through passage of time.

If we're going to run this dogshit fraudulent theiving system that concentrates wealth in the hands of the very few by stealing it out of the mouths of the masses then we can at least fund for their old age.


What staggers me is that people don't see it

What are you on about? Do you ever live in the real world?

Before pensions people used to be dirt poor beggars when they could no longer work.

Its not capitalism that steals all your money as tax to maintain those who dont contribute - its socialism.

No-ones arguing that we go back to no pensions but equally the pension system was never meant to cover them for decades and no-one had a right to expect this.

As it is even with moving the retirement age back it will still be a huge cost to those who are in work but to leave the system unchanged would be crippling.

 

[Athan]

From Conservative Liberal Democrat coalition agreements | The Liberal Democrats: Latest News Detail

"The parties agree to phase out the default retirement age and hold a review to set the date at which the state pension age starts to rise to 66, although it will not be sooner than 2016 for men and 2020 for women. We agree to end the rules requiring compulsory annuitisation at 75."

 

[Scouse]

What are you on about? Do you ever live in the real world?

Its not capitalism that steals all your money as tax to maintain those who dont contribute - its socialism.

I do live in the real world. I used to sit about with company directors whilst they laughed at the people who worked for them, and I mean "for" as "instead of" them, as they pocketed thousands whilst paying minimum wage to their money-earning staff.

I'm no advocate of socialism. Socialism failed. But so has capitalism. They're both products of outdated thinking.

We need a different system. But we're probably not going to get it - because the rich hold all the strings.

I agree with you Scouse!

/has heart attack!



Edit: BTW rynnor. Care to comment on the wealth-stealing properties of inflation and it's knock-on consequences for providing for oneself into old age?

 

[rynnor]

Edit: BTW rynnor. Care to comment on the wealth-stealing properties of inflation and it's knock-on consequences for providing for oneself into old age?

Sure - invest in assets that appreciate - Cash, Bonds,Property and Gold are generally good.

The fact remains if we didnt have such 'Big Government' trying to involve itself in every aspect of our lives and supporting the feckless we in the UK would have a lot more money which we could invest as we pleased for our old age rather than being forced to rely on Big Brother to look after us in our dotage.

Edit - oh and you cant prevent inflation - even if you fix prices.

 

[Chilly]

this is why banks pay interest

 

[dysfunction]

We need a different system. But we're probably not going to get it - because the rich hold all the strings.

The only other system I can think of is one out of Iain M. Banks' set of "Culture" books

Simply put:

..advanced technologies provide practically limitless material wealth and comforts for everyone for free, having all but abolished the concept of possessions), by having overcome almost all physical constraints on life (including disease and death) and by being an almost totally egalitarian, stable society without the use of any form of force or compulsion, except where necessary to protect others.

But thats never going to happen until we build artificial life forms to actually do all the dirty work and have unlimited resources...

 

[Scouse]

Edit - oh and you cant prevent inflation - even if you fix prices.

That's all I needed to know

Inflation, and interest, are artificial products of the monetary system we live under. They are neither necessary nor an imperative of a system.





Edit: And dys, I've not read those books (but will, my bird says they're great). But you raise a good point in that you can't think of another system. How hard are "we" trying?

 

[DaGaffer]

Sure - invest in assets that appreciate - Cash, Bonds,Property and Gold are generally good.

Tell that to an Irish person.

 

[Athan]

I think I'm correct in stating that the only way not to get any inflation ever is if all goods have a fixed price and always have enough supply to meet their demand.

As soon as you have a deficit in a good the price will likely go up and cause any goods that depend on it to also have their prices go up.

As soon as someone decides to just up the price of their good any way it'll ripple through the supply chain (and remember these can leap from one end-consumer of a goods-chain to that consumer being the start of a new goods-chain and deciding to charge more because his cost of living is now higher).

So, yes, you do pretty much need both infinite (for practical purposes) supply, and no actual exchange of wealth when goods are moved if you don't want inflation.

 

[rynnor]

Tell that to an Irish person.

Dont buy assets during a bubble - not always easy I know but for instance I wouldnt buy Gold currently but I might buy Spanish property.