Diet/Exercise based people.. [Need help etc]

[Gorbachioo]

they arnt accurate in the slightest though.

No they are not. But they do give some kind of a picture of the situation.

 

[old.Tohtori]

2000 calories is fuck all. your average, obese, office working woman is recommend 2000 by the government.

surely that shows how little it is?

starving your self will ultimatley make you fatter.

Your smaller then average diabetic(who's not at all obese), 2200-2500 here, recommended that is

It depends completely on people.

 

[Overdriven]

That makes me cry then, I was capping in around 1500-1800 a day when I dropped loads of weight =< Hmm.. I'll have to check what I eat more then, try to get around 2k in.

 

[tris-]

1800 is not enough at all imo.
what type of weight did you drop exactly - water, fat, muscle?
hard to say, but if youre just cutting calories right down then its like muscle and water, leaving fat behind.
sure the onyl way to lose fat is eating in a calorie deficit, but that doesnt mean simply eating 500 less calories. you need a diet that constantly supplys the body with food, and enough good fats in there to make your body used to utilising fat as an energy store. eating the right amount will reduce the bodys want to store it.

 

[Overdriven]

1800 is not enough at all imo.
what type of weight did you drop exactly - water, fat, muscle?
hard to say, but if youre just cutting calories right down then its like muscle and water, leaving fat behind.
sure the onyl way to lose fat is eating in a calorie deficit, but that doesnt mean simply eating 500 less calories. you need a diet that constantly supplys the body with food, and enough good fats in there to make your body used to utilising fat as an energy store. eating the right amount will reduce the bodys want to store it.

I've lost the majority of the water which I needed to (Biggest loss has been from that) and was some fat. Idea is to mainly drop the fat around my stomach (I know you can't target loss) since that's bothering me the most atm.

 

[tris-]

the time it takes for that depends on when the fat was stored there, as it shed at the places it was last stored in.

 

[Mephz]

i would advise against 2 meals a day no matter how big or small they are. you need a constant release of everything gradually in the day, as you can only absorb so much in one sitting etc. i would suggest a good start is to eat breakfast, with some slow release energy (porridge cooked in water, with cinnamon and raisins) is something i personally look foward too, as sad it sounds . and if you like maybe chuck in some eggs for a bit of protein. problem with losing weight is unless you keep supplying the nutrients for your muscles, they will waste away too making you skinny fat. id say try and have some kind of protein in every meal (eggs, chicken, turkey, cottage cheese, quorn etc), not massive amounts needed really. as an example 100g of chicken is plenty, as is about 4 egg whites.

i wouldnt binge on food (i.e. eat then exercise because you feel guilty) as you will probably develop some kind of disorder. but there is nothing wrong with a bit of what you fancy once a week imo.

some simple changes for a start would be swap 'white' foods for 'brown' foods.
that would be wholegrain bread and not white, wholegrain pasta, basmati rice etc. cut out sugary stuff, drink plenty of H2O and what ever you do dont starve your self!

dont know if you want to count calories, but id aim for 2000 - 2200 or so a day (pretty sure i was on that for around the last 3 months). and if you want to drink, make it guiness or vodka with diet coke.

initial weight loss is probably water, but it shouldnt discourage you. after about 2-3 months of putting effort in you will notice and so wil everyone else.

not sure if its possible for you, but a highly recommend way of burning fat is doing around 40 mins of cardio before you eat anything, in the morning. not intense mind, your heart rate should be about 130bpm, which after the 40 mins leaves you dripping a bit but not breathless.

now id wait for vlad to come and verify what i said before you try any of it

For one, everyone’s bmr is different, I would recommend 1800 max for OD, Low GI Carbs / good source of protein and good source of fat in every meal, spaced out at 3 meals a day.[/COLOR]

People advising cardio on an empty stomach and in the morning, really don't know what there talking about. Doing cardio but after a meal / food (1-2 hours) will lead to the same result. Liver glycogen has to re compensate during the day and night so it doesn’t matter when / how you do it in that 24/4 hours unless you want to push your body to the limit and start losing muscle mass and getting ill by doing it with no energy. Best cardio is HIIT, work your way up to 15 mins or so, doing it only 3 times a week max.

Low GI Carbs – Oats (use them), Beans (Low salt), Whole-wheat fusilli pasta, seeded bread, wholegrain brown rice and anything with the low GI sticker.

Protein – Lean Meat, Fish, (Tuna etc), milk are the best.

Fats – Nuts, Oily Fish, Diary & not so lean meat in good quantities.

Quickest way to lose water is, cut out a lot of Salt(Sodium) and drink lots.

 

[tris-]

ok sure i dont know what im talking about.

good luck OD. obviously me doing what i said for the last 3 months and having it work doesnt mean anything. obviously my dietician is really a fraud, and everything i achieved at the gym is a lie!

im not here to be patronised and spoke down to by some random twat.

 

[Vladamir]

Mephz do you not think that HIIT on an empty in terms of fat loss is detrimental, in terms of intensity vs fat utilisation?

You need low intensity with supressed/low insulin levels to burn fat - which makes the morning ideal. Arguably it is possible during the day however for most it's less hassle to do it first thing instead of manipulating the diet otherwise.

 

[DocWolfe]

I feel very light headed and dizzy if I do excercise without eating first.

 

[Vladamir]

The intensity at which you do 'fat burning' cardio is little more than a walk in fairness - heart rate of 130bpm is nothing really but it is ideal.

 

[Mephz]

ok sure i dont know what im talking about.

good luck OD. obviously me doing what i said for the last 3 months and having it work doesnt mean anything. obviously my dietician is really a fraud, and everything i achieved at the gym is a lie!

im not here to be patronised and spoke down to by some random twat.

I wasn't indicting you, people in general as it's widely said and yes I do know what I’m talking about, I’ve trained enough people, gave out enough advice on nutrition and training, and accomplished / cutted enough to be qualified to talk. Most nutritionists are idiots, "don't eat saturated fat" they really do talk shit.

Mephz do you not think that HIIT on an empty in terms of fat loss is detrimental, in terms of intensity vs fat utilisation?

You need low intensity with supressed/low insulin levels to burn fat - which makes the morning ideal. Arguably it is possible during the day however for most it's less hassle to do it first thing instead of manipulating the diet otherwise.

I think it's unneeded and physically & psychology(sp) demanding, actually I don't think, I know.

Insulin is only a problem when you eat lots of fat while its high, I've injected up to 20 IUs at a time, I'm not fat

 

[Vladamir]

I suppose it depends what way you look at it - however there is plenty of literature out there to state that a fat-max utilisation occurs at lower intensity exercise, i wouldn't say it's demanding (if you're referring to the cardio, not sure!).

However i thought that insulin would blunt any fat utilisation, doesn't it make CHO the main energy substrate?. At least thats what i was lead to believe as to why morning cardio was so effective when everything else was in place.

 

[Overdriven]

Cheers for all the replies in this, is actually helping.

Diet I'll try and change, for either getting the 1800/2000 calories a day ontop of the exercise (Would usually be about 1 1/2h after eating, as I eat around 8-9pm or so) so that should be cool.

I tried HIIT before and it killed me, the cardio work I did with the rope (after I got use to doing it) was the best for me as I did notice results after a while (Not only with weight loss ) so I think I'll try and go back to that, with what's avaiable in the new flat. I'll also track the weight loss (Weekly weighing) and see if it actually helps.

My current food intake is mainly brown bread, rice/pasta and chiken sometimes. Grown ill of redmeat, heh =< (Ontop of fruit, ofc.. Mainly bananas/apples)

I'll let you guys know if it helps ^^

Cheers again.

:wub:

 

[DocWolfe]

Battle of the Diet Geeks: Episode One

 

[tris-]

I wasn't indicting you, people in general as it's widely said and yes I do know what I’m talking about, I’ve trained enough people, gave out enough advice on nutrition and training, and accomplished / cutted enough to be qualified to talk. Most nutritionists are idiots, "don't eat saturated fat" they really do talk shit.

so the fact that it worked doesnt prove anything? like that it works for example.

 

[Vladamir]

Battle of the Diet Geeks: Episode One

Not arguing - discussing.

Theres more than 1 way to skin a cat.

 

[Golly]

Theres more than 1 way to skin a cat.

got a book somewhere of 133 ways of skinning and then using a skinned cat in every day life, tis a good read

 

[Maeloch]

Don't really see what the big deal is, u eat less than u burn - end of.

I lost 8 stone the other year, 1000 calories a day, no breakfast, not enuff protein, everything wrong for ur 'expert'. And ofc some of that was muscle, reading up after the event - put back 2 stone after. But then loosing the weight in itself gave me a taster for a more healthly life, and then lost it again with some more sensible plan, and put some on top of it on ontop with a bit of swimming etc.

Anyhow, it's just mind game with urself to keep to a regieme. Any scientificly wonderful diet means shit if u can't stick to it, no matter how worthwile it is on paper, it has to be something u like and can hold to.

 

[Vladamir]

Don't really see what the big deal is, u eat less than u burn - end of.

I lost 8 stone the other year, 1000 calories a day, no breakfast, not enuff protein, everything wrong for ur 'expert'. And ofc some of that was muscle, reading up after the event - put back 2 stone after. But then loosing the weight in itself gave me a taster for a more healthly life, and then lost it again with some more sensible plan, and put some on top of it on ontop with a bit of swimming etc.

Anyhow, it's just mind game with urself to keep to a regieme. Any scientificly wonderful diet means shit if u can't stick to it, no matter how worthwile it is on paper, it has to be something u like and can hold to.

In fairness thoughh (obviously i don't know how much you weighed beforehand) but people the wrong side of 20 stone generally the normal rules are out the window.

 

[Maeloch]

In fairness thoughh (obviously i don't know how much you weighed beforehand) but people the wrong side of 20 stone generally the normal rules are out the window.

hehe it was around there. I just get a bit sick of the endless talk of *this* is how u must do it, when it's a bit of whatever works for u.

Need to shift a stone now after pigging out on booze etc for a month. More easygoing now, think that'll be 2k cals a day, an hr swimming and walk to work and back (4-6miles), it's not complicated!

 

[Overdriven]

I've never been anywhere near 20 stone So I'll be avoiding that. Most I've weighed was the end of last year at 15.5, now I'm sitting at 13, fluxuating to 13.3 depending on how my body feels.

 

[tris-]

then if you want to lose a stone OF FAT its going to take about 2-3 months of proper dieting and exercise, not starving your self and living off minimal calories.

all imo, talking from experience. ive been losing weight for years (highest weight was at 19st). cutting out crisps and chocolate and doing 3 hours exercise a week only takes you so far. i tried just about everything there is to try and the only thing that give consistent results was proper dieting and proper exercise.

 

[Mephz]

I suppose it depends what way you look at it - however there is plenty of literature out there to state that a fat-max utilisation occurs at lower intensity exercise, i wouldn't say it's demanding (if you're referring to the cardio, not sure!).

However i thought that insulin would blunt any fat utilisation, doesn't it make CHO the main energy substrate?. At least thats what i was lead to believe as to why morning cardio was so effective when everything else was in place.

Insulin is anti-lipolytic but your fine unless you eat fat with in high doses of it, but for normal eating, i.e. 80 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat is very bad, but 60 grams and 15 grams isn't.

And yea to Mael, if your 20 odd stone, 1kcal is starvation big time, of course your gonna burn fat like a mudda fucker, I was 21 stone when I started lifting, I went down to 14 and now to 17/18 but not very lean.

Ill drop like 10-15% bf in feb / march

 

[Huntingtons]

then if you want to lose a stone OF FAT its going to take about 2-3 months of proper dieting and exercise, not starving your self and living off minimal calories.

all imo, talking from experience. ive been losing weight for years (highest weight was at 19st). cutting out crisps and chocolate and doing 3 hours exercise a week only takes you so far.

although fast weight loss will go through very planned dieting and planned exercise will take you further. normal diet control (eating less and more controlled) will easily bring you down in weight without a big fuss. you have to keep cutting your food intake, weight drops, cut again etc... read something in my gf's girlie magazine where they checked some energy use of 3 general lifestyles (quiet job, no exercise freetime, bit requiring job very little freetime exercise and hard job active pasttime) where it rose 2.5k (from 7.8k to 10.3k). its a "small" increase overall (its a big increase health wise if you live by it though) im not saying exercise is bad or anything, just what i've said a million times before, that 2/3 of your energy usage is from maintaining basic body functions

 

[tris-]

if thats the case why didnt i die from having zero energy. having 2k cals for 3 months, lifting heavy weights 3 times a week and doing about 3 hours cardio a week?

surely all that goes above the rest of the 1/3 of energy?

 

[Huntingtons]

how exactly did you expect to die? instant drop after some workout? in order for that to happen you need to have almost no bodyfat to dissolve + hard, i mean slavelabourkilling-hard work not some bullshit 3 hour workout (you dont do 3 hours of workout just coz you're in the gym for 3 hours btw)

anyway, i dont think i understand what you posted correctly

you did see the numbers i posted about how much the usage rose for females right? im not defying the fact that hard exercise will drain resources - im just pointing out that hard work isnt the most important thing BECAUSE the body itself already use quite alot of energy just "hybernating"

 

[Maeloch]

And yea to Mael, if your 20 odd stone, 1kcal is starvation big time, of course your gonna burn fat like a mudda fucker, I was 21 stone when I started lifting, I went down to 14 and now to 17/18 but not very lean.

Yeah, I had that thing for a month where ur breath smells of acetone, ur burning fat so fast, ketosis iirc.

Bit of backpacking at weekends keeps me out fo trouble now, lug a 40lb pack 20 miles aday and throw in a bit of hills and you can eat and drink what u like and see a bit of the world. Sat all weekend playing daoc didn't exactly do me much favours back in the day.

 

[tris-]

how exactly did you expect to die? instant drop after some workout? in order for that to happen you need to have almost no bodyfat to dissolve + hard, i mean slavelabourkilling-hard work not some bullshit 3 hour workout (you dont do 3 hours of workout just coz you're in the gym for 3 hours btw)

anyway, i dont think i understand what you posted correctly

you did see the numbers i posted about how much the usage rose for females right? im not defying the fact that hard exercise will drain resources - im just pointing out that hard work isnt the most important thing BECAUSE the body itself already use quite alot of energy just "hybernating"

no you said 2/3 of my energy is from my body running. te amount of added exercise is going to use energy which is more than the other 1/3 left to use.

"(you dont do 3 hours of workout just coz you're in the gym for 3 hours btw)
"

NO SHIT SHERLOCK! but when did i even say i did 3 hours at a time anyway?

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Losing weight is pretty easy. Just prevent eating 1 thing: Glucose.

Glucose is known under various names on ingredient lists:
Sugar (= saccharose)
Sucrose (= saccharose)
Saccharose (= glucose + fructose)
Glucose (obviously)
Glucose syrup (syruppy form of glucose)
Fructose-glucose syrup (mix of glucose and fructose syrup)

Possibly some others aswell.
Prevent eating them, and start eating a lot of whole wheat bread, and other whole grain products where you'd normally eat the white variant.
First day or two might be tough due to your body being used to the sugar, but that'll pass.

The pounds will fly off... and healthily!