Did Jesus Die?

[dysfunction]

Did Jesus Die?

I have been watching this Documentary on BBC Four and its certainly has some very convincing arguments...

Some of the things mentioned were:

Apparantly in the Bible it says that Jesus was dead within 6 hours or so of being on the cross. This is apparantly very quick when compared to all the other people who were crucified.

The other two who were also crucified at same time of Jesus had their legs broken while on the cross to speed up their deaths. But didnt do this to Jesus.
Jesus was also declared dead by a Roman who also declared that Jesus was indeed the son of God.

The Sponge given to Jesus when he was thirsty may have contained a drug to make him appear dead and not move when he was stabbed on the cross.

The Herbs taken into tomb were aloe which are used for healing not those used when people are buried. So he may have been resuscitated and not resurrected...words are quite similar...

Also apparantly his Acsention is not in the original "Gospel" texts of Mathew Mark, Luke and John...it was however added 200 years later. It is in "Acts" though

Johns Gospel: Mary Magdalen was first one who saw Jesus rise again...its possible he had a sexual relationship with her as they were very close.

Buddhism: When the Dalai Lama's looks as if he will die soon, wise men go and find an infant which will take over the teachings of the Lama. Possible that they thought Jesus was the Lama's replacement. Remember the 3 wise men that visited him when he was born.

Its quite possible that Jesus traveled east towards India after he "rose from the dead"? The "Spice Route" was easy enough to use to get there.
Assumtion is he would not want to be near the Roman Empire...

At the age of 14 to 29 there is no record of Jesus in Palestine. At age 14 a boy did go to the east and become the new Dalai Lama from Palestine.
Many similar teachings new to Buddhism were done at this time and are very similar to Jesus teachings in Palestine.

So he could have gone back to teach Buddhism after he was crucified.

One of the most remarkable stories concerns the charismatic preacher Jus Asaf (Leader of the Healed) who arrived in Kashmir in around 30 AD. Just before he died at the age of 80, Jus Asaf claimed that he was in fact Jesus Christ and the programme shows his tomb, next to which are his carved footprints which bear the scars of crucifixion.

Something to ponder about over a large whiskey eh?

 

[Panda On Smack]

he died and was raised to heaven

 

[fatbusinessman]

An interesting conjecture - can't say it's one I've ever heard before.

However, I think the real answer to the question "Did Jesus die?" is "We'll never know". It happened 2000 years ago, so no-one has enough solid evidence to say one way or another.

 

[Ono]

He died for our sins and the sins of our children.

Speaking of which I still haven't watched my DVD of The Passion of the Christ yet. Saw clips of it and it looked really very gruesome.

 

[Tom]

The problem is that unless its written down, its speculation. Much of what we now know and understand about ancient civilisations comes from the writings they leave behind. Its not an exact science though, and very much open to misinterpretation, and of course distortion of the facts of the day.

 

[fatbusinessman]

The other big problem is that practically anyone who tries to find out the facts will have their own beliefs about what happened, and so will produce something inherently biased. So you're never going to convince someone one way or another.

 

[Stazbumpa]

Aye, Passion of the Christ being a case of this. Gibson is a staunch Catholic and so puts his own spin on what may or may not have happened and therefore the meaning can change.

Gibson's dad is quoted as saying "The best thing about being catholic is the life long knowledge that you're always right". I daresay this was passed onto his son.

 

[Dillinja]

I thought The Passion of the Christ was slightly over-the-top. It takes a lot to actually make me cringe but that gruesome whipping scene managed it.

 

[Yaka]

He died for our sins and the sins of our children.

Speaking of which I still haven't watched my DVD of The Passion of the Christ yet. Saw clips of it and it looked really very gruesome.

despite wot peeps say i never found it to have OTT gore in it, mabe the making of documentrie i saw on tv be it was released had some thing to with that, showing a dummy being whipped

 

[Paradroid]

The Last Temptation of Christ probably had it right in parts. Doesn't messiah mean a few things? Religous leader, political leader and King (armies?)? In the King James version it says a cohort(?) of roman soldiers came to arrest jebus (that's like 500 men?).

So was he a threat to the establishment? jewish leaders & the romans? - remember he was supposed to be a rabbi and he was out there smashing up churches, preaching a different version of his own faith (went down well with the other rabbis no doubt - que monty python sketch "How could it get any worse?") and general rabble rousing - claiming to be the king of kings and talking about his kingdom, and how no one (romans or rabbis) has control over him but his father (god), and how cool him are god are together with the holy ghost etc. Irrespective of whether he actually was the son of god , host of hosts etc...they're not going to just sit back and let it happen are they? They're thinking; if he's the messiah, he'll stop them! ... dangerous thing change.

...and what about Simon the sorcerer- what's that all about? (I can't get rid of an image I've got of this guy - a bearded jesuit with Harry Potter stylee hat & cape..."Bunch of flowers!")

 

[Xtro]

Complete cobblers IMHFO, just like the bible.

"If heaven exists, how come planes don't bump into it Daddy?"

Like I said - all IMHFO!

 

[Gef]

Jesus is something they made up to stop us all going nuts, no heaven? Proposterous, where would all the calculators go?

 

[Ch3tan]

Its dangerous to mix fact and logic with religion, however thats an intresting theory dys.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Folklore.

 

[Wij]

Jesus is dead. I killed him with my spork.

 

[amobea]

It was documented that when he was stabbed in the side the wound bled "water and a much thicker dark red fluid" (not the exact words used), which would indicate the blood was coagulated*




*This happens to dead peeps...

 

[Trem]

A more important question.......Did Jesus live?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Imagine a guy like David Blaine, 2000 years ago.
That's your Jesus.

Religion of all denominations is (imo) fictional bollox, and responsible for an awful lot of bad shit that happens on this planet. That said I believe everyone has the right to their own beliefs, me included.

 

[fatbusinessman]

I would have to disagree with you there Yuck. The awful lot of bad shit that happens on this planet is due to some people being utter bastards and wanting to kill each other.

Religion is just used as an excuse - if religion didn't exist, they'd find something else.

 

[nath]

Religion is just used as an excuse - if religion didn't exist, they'd find something else.

Well said that man.

 

[Stazbumpa]

Aye, but nothing gets people whipped up into a frenzy like righteous religious bollox and a firebrand priest. Notice how there was never an aetheist crusades or a jihad to convert the believers.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

I would have to disagree with you there Yuck. The awful lot of bad shit that happens on this planet is due to some people being utter bastards and wanting to kill each other.

Religion is just used as an excuse - if religion didn't exist, they'd find something else.

True, but for now at least religion is the excuse.

 

[Thugs]

I have never been one to shy away from arguments. I tend to be very outspoken and will probably land in very hot water chasing this subject matter. Anyways here is my two penneth worth with regard to Jesus and religion.

Well the age of Aquarius is with us now - my age. Thinkers.

Tis obvious to me who Jesus was cos he did exist in my eyes. A man whose people were persecuted to such an extent that suffering both physical and mental were an everyday and never-ending occurance. The man was brilliant. During his short life he made many wonderful and startling ground-breaking revelations which gave guidance and succour to thousands upon thousands of people (people who were in desperate need and lost).

What has occurred since his death? - our powerful christian religion.

The church cannot afford for there not to be religion so Jesus was re-created over a period of time to include a virgin birth and to be the son of God. The man existed for sure but 'Son of a God' no sorry - just a human being - as we all are.

 

[GekuL]

Imagine a guy like David Blaine, 2000 years ago.
That's your Jesus.

Religion of all denominations is (imo) fictional bollox, and responsible for an awful lot of bad shit that happens on this planet. That said I believe everyone has the right to their own beliefs, me included.

I agree. While religion is usually an excuse, it would be a lot harder to find support without the connection to religion.
Having said that, a lot of people gain something from religion, and it is unfair on them that the link is there. But it is.

 

[Munkey]

I read a theory somewhere, apparently Jesus was taken down from the cross whilst still alive and taken to the cave where he was looked after. However, his disciples realised how Jesus's death was good for futhering the cause, plus he'd promised to them that he'd be dead. So they came along and killed him.

Just a theory. Makes sense to me

 

[Turamber]

Lots of interesting views, thoughts and opinions. It does make me smile that some people wish to say that Jesus did not exist, yet there is as much evidence that he existed as, say, Emperor Hadrian.

Whether or not he was the Son of God is a matter of personal belief, but certainly thousands of people were willing to go to their death for their belief in Jesus in persecutions that started just a few decades after his death.

That Jesus lived is attested to in the writings of the 1st century Jewish historian Josephus and also by the Emperor Tacitus who, before rising to be Emperor, was something of an historian himself.

The original poster made an interesting comment about Jesus appearing to Mary Magdalene when he rose from the dead. If you read the Bible accounts they show that he appeared to women first before his male disciples. This at a time when women were considered to be 2nd class citizens and much inferior to males. If somebody was going to make up a story about Jesus rising from the dead it's strange that they chose to have women seeing him first ... so strange that, to some of us, it has the mark of credulity.

The Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) promised a lot for the Messiah. He would be accursed and mistreated, come from 'the poor side of town', yet he would be a commanding leader at the head of armies. The life of Jesus fulfills many parts of those prophecies and Christians look forward to a second coming when he comes back to fulfill the rest ... namely the coming with armies bit.

During his life on earth, it should be pointed out, the Gospels consistently portray him as a man who cared more for others than about himself. He never picked up a weapon, always sought to solve mans problems by peaceful means. If only all religious leaders throughout the centuries had acted the same.

People use religion as an excuse -- if they weren't killing and maiming for their religion they would be doing it for their politics, for their race or just because they could. Religion should be a force for good and for peace, and thankfully it has been at many times down through the centuries - but unfortunately not always and that is something which saddens me very much.

 

[nath]

If somebody was going to make up a story about Jesus rising from the dead it's strange that they chose to have women seeing him first ... so strange that, to some of us, it has the mark of credulity.

It's more likely to you that a human being was the product of a virgin birth, and that his father is God than the possibility that someone writing a story was a bit ahead of his time?

 

[Cyfr]

Jesus was invented to provide entertaining storys and songs for kids.

 

[Sar]

I think he was an historical figure, but his divinity is definitely not for real.

The Ghandi of his day imo.

The Bible was written 400 years after his death, so it's hardly likely to be true in any way, shape or form. It was concocted by Emperor Constantine in order to reinforce his rule. He wasn't even a Christian himself, and was only baptised on his death bed against his wishes, when he was too weak to object otherwise.

 

[Turamber]

The Bible was written 400 years after his death

Copies of the Old Testament books have been found which are dated centuries before Jesus death. Parts of the Gospel of John have been found which have been dated to the end of the first century, i.e. whilst people who would have lived at the same time as Jesus were still alive.

It takes faith to accept Jesus as the Son of God, but it only takes science and a little bit of historic truth to show you know zero, nothing, zilch, nada about this subject.