Fact David, why don't you suck my balls?

[old.user4556]

I believe this thread has gone to shit.

 

[DaGaffer]

I knew others would already have expressed what I'm getting at better than me.

 

[Scouse]

I believe this thread has gone to shit.

It's called Toht. He knows that I really don't want to discuss these things with him, have repeatedly asked him not to engage with me on this topic, yadda yadda yadda...

I knew others would already have expressed what I'm getting at better than me.

Wasn't loving what was being said in that article tbh. Then I saw that Dawkins didn't like the categorisation.

Interesting tho.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's called Toht.

Yeah, i was the one turning the topic into an active non active disbelief belief rant

 

[Syri]

Does anyone else think I was insulting Toht there or can you see that I was answering his question truthfully - that I don't think taste and belief have the slightest thing to do with each other.


Syri:


Sorry m8, but you're 100% wrong.

I presume you're a believer - so I don't expect you to try to see this a different way from how you currently do. In all my discussions with religious people I've none have ever made the mental leap. You choose to believe. You don't "choose" not to - you just don't perform the action of believing in the first place. Someone asks, you go "nope, never did that".

Beliving is an action. A verb. A verb is a "doing word" (remember your basic schooling).

People who perform that action do something. People who don't perform that action don't.


Can you see the difference?

Furthermore:


Belief, and the actions associated with it, are not necessary in human life. Ever.

You presume wrong. I'm a non-believer. I am aware of people's beliefs, and respectful of them, but I choose not to follow those beliefs. If you are not aware of something, you can neither believe or disbelieve in it. If you are aware of it though, and chose to believe or not, you have made a conscious choice, EITHER way. That is what you're not getting. If nobody ever told you about god, or anything else for that matter, THEN you can have no form of belief or disbelief. If you become aware of it, you WILL form an opinion, either to believe or disbelieve. It is not at all possible to become aware of something and not form an opinion one way or another. Only by having no knowledge of something can you truly have no belief either way about it. If you never heard any mention of god at all, or never got taken to church, or never attended any religious services, and never did RE in school, then you can say you neither believe nor disbelieve. Your past arguments, even in this very thread, show that you have made a conscious decision not to believe though, as you are aware of the thing in question, in this case the christian religion, and you don't believe in it. Therefore, you chose not to, as you are aware of what it is, and that it doesn't apply to you.
I have nothing further to say on the matter, as I've more than proven the point I intended now. If you don't believe what I have put, that's up to you to disbelieve. Good day.

 

[leggy]

I type very quickly.

We use(d to) use this forum to discuss things. Don't be so surprised to find posts longer than one-sentence "this is for random spam" style pointlessness constantly - especially on tricky subjects...

If I was surprised it was at the rapid succession of posts. Plus I'm not sure this qualifies as tricky; I think a relatively simple concept is being made a meal of.

 

[old.user4556]

I think a relatively simple concept is being made a meal of.

 

[Raven]

If I was surprised it was at the rapid succession of posts. Plus I'm not sure this qualifies as tricky; I think a relatively simple concept is being made a meal of.

The trick is, post and post and post until your opponent doesn't care any more.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That's how i win.

That and being totally oblivious to losing.

 

[Scouse]

If you are not aware of something, you can neither believe or disbelieve in it. If you are aware of it though, and chose to believe or not, you have made a conscious choice, EITHER way. That is what you're not getting....if you become aware of it, you WILL form an opinion, either to believe or disbelieve.

I've more than proven the point I intended now. If you don't believe what I have put, that's up to you to disbelieve. Good day.

Sorry I presumed you were a beliver/religious. Normally the viewpoint you express is held by the religious.

However, It doesn't work like you express above. Disbeliving is NOT an action. It's the LACK of an action. You don't choose to perform disbelief - you just lack the performance of belief.

It seems that you can't/won't grasp the difference. But fair enough...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Belief isn't a performance/action either, but hey don't let facts stop you.

Worship, propaganda, prayer etc are actions that may or may not(blow yer mind eh?) be part of belief, but belief in itself is no more an action then not believing.

That's why i said you have 0 knowledge of what belief even is

 

[Raven]

ofc it is, its a choice. Obviously one made by the brainwashed for the most part but it is still a choice.

 

[Scouse]

Belief isn't a performance/action either

Fail. Completely and utterly. You've been given the factual definition of the verb and you still won't accept it.

be·lieve
verb <<doing word, capiche? defines an action
to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right

So this is you:

de·lu·sion
a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact

 

[old.Tohtori]

Fail. Completely and utterly. You've been given the factual definition of the verb and you still won't accept it.

"A verb, from the Latin verbum meaning word, is a word (part of speech) that in syntax conveys an action (bring, read, walk, run, learn), an occurrence (happen, become), or a state of being (be, exist, stand)."

Might want to check on things before trying to be cute. Belief is not an action, it's a state of being.

ofc it is, its a choice. Obviously one made by the brainwashed for the most part but it is still a choice.

True, not going to argue that. At a young age it's not necessarily a choice as you go by parental/peer pressure, but later for sure.

 

[Jupitus]

Fail. Completely and utterly. You've been given the factual definition of the verb and you still won't accept it.


So this is you:

He said 'belief' which is a noun, I think...

 

[ileks]

I've not read any of this thread but the title always makes me chuckle. Nice one Raven.

 

[Scouse]

He said 'belief' which is a noun, I think...

Jeesus Jup old bean. Belief is the noun that describes the state of someone who's performed the action of believing...

You might have belief in a god, because you're a believer, and believers believe.

i.e. believers believe. The action believe. Which makes them believers and gives them their beliefs (in spite of no evidence for them).


I'll not take english lessons off a finn, but you should know better Jup

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nicely avoided Scouse. Believing is an action(as in i believe you're a loonie), but belief is a state of being(as in 100% of the time i know scouse is a loonie). As per your own language. All verbs are not active.

Belief is not something you activate, or deactivate, you just are.

You may not take English lessons from a Finn (capitals dear), but you should

 

[old.user4556]

Guys.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Stop posting?

 

[Scouse]

Guys.

Direct it at the guy I stopped talkin' to m8. (You know, the one I've repeatedly asked to stop talking to me on this in multiple threads).

Used to dearly love FH for debates with a few of the members. Was the main reason for being here. They went somewhere. Since the merge of OT and General it's just not been the same as they now always go the same way. The introduction of Toht into any reasoned long discussion now turns out like this one. - you can try, but even if you resolutely ignore him he'll post in response to your posts, if you ask him to not engage he posts, you can put him on ignore, he posts. Yadda yadda yadda.

I know (and agree) that OT and General were merged because of decreasing membership but the fact they were different sections...

Meh.

 

[old.user4556]

This is why I have Toht on ignore (presume you're referring to Toht).

Never get in a mud fight with a pig.

 

[Scouse]

This is why I have Toht on ignore

Tried that for a couple of months. Makes the forum look ugly and is even more of a mental prompt than simply ignoring his posts in-thread - and tbh I don't think it's the right thing to do. Either way others can see the posts so if he's replying to yours the result is the same - thread is derailed.

 

[old.Tohtori]

There's always the possibility of not replying. You know, self control over a higher being and all that

Anyway, i'll just leave you to it and poke at you when you derail a thread(as you do). Slapbet and all that

 

[leggy]

(You know, the one I've repeatedly asked to stop talking to me on this in multiple threads).

You want debate but only if you like what the other person is saying?

I may not agree with half of what he's saying but if you advocate free speech then you should be man enough to either listen or have the self control to ignore the baiting. But it's pretty unreasonable to tell someone to stop talking to you on a forum.

 

[caLLous]

I wouldn't call Toht's contributions "debating" tbh. I'm not sure what I would call them, but debating isn't it.

 

[leggy]

I agree, there is a lot of pedantry and pointless argument but it's really easy to NOT reply...

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't really do it to any other people then those who take potshots at me, or throw snarky comments without tagging(i can be reasonable and debate like any other). Trolling these days is reserved for the select few and it seems to work wonders.

It's not like i was deliberately forcing Scouse to reply or anything

 

[Jupitus]

I was just being a pedant, I confess it!

 

[Wij]

As the only person with a degree in Philosophy I think I can end this whole shitjism:

• I believe
• I can fly