Daoc's top 5 talentless classes (melee or hybrids)

[Fuaip]

Actually I think it was in one of your grats threads :england:

And it's not a case of conceding about my class, I just think theres far more overpowered things out there already, i.e any HoT class at all.

As for whats over powered, it's all relative to the class you play yourself, but in general shears, HoT's, disease and the melee defense triangle need a serious looking at.

and armsmen with insane damage with just one anytimer, fucked up parry rate because they can afford going high without losing anything, RR5 which is even more or just as OP as champs, doesnt need a serious looking at? HoT isnt anymore OP than darn 5-800dmg on everyhit anytime at all.. HoT can't heal that much.
Oh, and mentalists which is a HoT class is OP? I hope not lol

 

[Basic_X]

From a mid caster PoV i would say that

1. Animist
2. Enchanter
3. Sorc
4. Wizard
5. Theurg

would be the most talentless classes there is

from a mid melee PoV i would say

1. Archers (got to say that since both realms are more or less equal, and ofc never less then 4 at the time -.-)
2. Friars
3. Armsman
4. Champions
5. Reavers

 

[censi]

You dont exactly need a masters in quantum mechanics to operate an SM??

Hmmm wheres my loltap butten gone!

 

[Raven]

Armsman
Valk
Warden
Hero
Thane

or at least when i tried it out again for a few days

 

[Awarkle]

the reason i said minstrel is because this is how most of the fights go

mezz
wait
dd
dd
stun
wait
dd
dd
start fighting
dd
dd
dd
dd
dd
dd
dd
dd
dd
dd
dd
stun
if loosing run away with sos

 

[Raven]

stop being shit then.

Mincers are in no way over powered atm

 

[aika]

oh get real minstrels can hardly outdamage the hp regen mythirian

 

[Maeloch]

Oh, and mentalists which is a HoT class is OP? I hope not lol

iirc ments had been asking for some improved version of HoT for sometime via TL reports etc and been told to fuck off. Now if a caster can insta HoT himself it doesn't really make much difference.

ofc then u get high defense melee classes been given grp hot, insta self-hot, or wtf i can't even remember what it is. Now if anything is a stupid no brainer for being OP it is high shield melee toons getting insta HoTs, but well.

 

[Vodkafairy]

You're soo wrong mate. If nothing else just pretend that you have some knowledge of how things work.

edit: it's 1 for small, 2 for medium, 3 for large btw

read > comprehend > post

 

[Coldbeard]

What a completely flawed topic

 

[Leel]

Well, I guess combat timer is ten seconds or so, so if you got the hunter pet on you and kill it, it will still count as being in combat with you for ten seconds after, so that you will get the block penalty for that long? Works same way for shrooms for to hit bonus in pve I guess? Now if you manage to kill the pet before it engages you in melee, that's another story, sure, but I guess that's not very likely to happen when you're melee speced AND you have someone firing arrows at you anyways.

 

[Kagato]

and armsmen with insane damage with just one anytimer, fucked up parry rate because they can afford going high without losing anything, RR5 which is even more or just as OP as champs, doesnt need a serious looking at? HoT isnt anymore OP than darn 5-800dmg on everyhit anytime at all.. HoT can't heal that much.
Oh, and mentalists which is a HoT class is OP? I hope not lol

Powerful yes but no more powerful then many many other things in this game and far less then others. That 'anytime' style which is actually positional has existed in the game from day one with the exact same growth rate. The only differance now is that it is useable on non-melee classes as well, which wouldn't of effected you to begin with. And that only got changed because mythic made a huge scale fuck-up when they tried to change the style and couldn't revert it back to a style-opener.

As for parry rate, without losing anything? Come on we are a double-spec class for a start, to get a good parry rate you either have to lose shield, lose your base damage spec or lose snapshot. I only had a good parry rate because I had no shield spec and highest rr.

The differance between the champion and armsman RR5 is a mute point as they are both completely different with different purposes it is impossible to say which is better. Armsmen one is completely defensive and the champion one completely offensive, however I imagine a large part of your issue with it is simply because ours completely negates yours, where as a caster or support class will no-doubt have much more to complain about from yours.

As I said at the begining, what is over powered completely depends on who you are and what you play.

 

[Gear]

read > comprehend > post

You can keep on roleplaying 1337 and female but you still got no clue regarding shield mechanics mate.

 

[censi]

Powerful yes but no more powerful then many many other things in this game and far less then others. That 'anytime' style which is actually positional has existed in the game from day one with the exact same growth rate. The only differance now is that it is useable on non-melee classes as well, which wouldn't of effected you to begin with. And that only got changed because mythic made a huge scale fuck-up when they tried to change the style and couldn't revert it back to a style-opener.

As for parry rate, without losing anything? Come on we are a double-spec class for a start, to get a good parry rate you either have to lose shield, lose your base damage spec or lose snapshot. I only had a good parry rate because I had no shield spec and highest rr.

The differance between the champion and armsman RR5 is a mute point as they are both completely different with different purposes it is impossible to say which is better. Armsmen one is completely defensive and the champion one completely offensive, however I imagine a large part of your issue with it is simply because ours completely negates yours, where as a caster or support class will no-doubt have much more to complain about from yours.

As I said at the begining, what is over powered completely depends on who you are and what you play.

from my POV... If I face a champ on my terms (the advantage of being a sneak) I can get stuck into them and push them hard... If ive got all my stuff I can win and do win... and the more I power up (still only rr5) the more I can get stuck into them... They are powerfull the debuffs are nasty... banelord gives all sorts of stuff and the rr5... However they dont have much in the way of HP and you can definfetly get stuck into them.. Same for most other classes actually I can get stuck into them... even wardens and maulers etc..

Armsmen I just cant touch... it feels like a complete mismatch being even when I do get through there defense I do bugger all damage regardless of weapon choice. And like I say they just hit too damn hard.

I must say though a good hero isnt too much different... So I guess an extreme heavy tank should be this way... but my god it would be nice to be able make a bit more of an impact on them.

 

[Alexandrinus]

from my POV... .

you totally clueless. THX

 

[Raven]

You can keep on roleplaying 1337 and female but you still got no clue regarding shield mechanics mate.

VF is right though.

Small effectively blocks 1 enemy, penalty 2+
Medium effectively blocks 2 enemy, penalty 3+
Large effectively blocks 3 enemy, penalty 4+


and if someone mentions dex effecting slam rate i will cry

 

[Awarkle]

doesnt dex effect slam






ok that was too easy

 

[Aiteal]

and if someone mentions dex effecting slam rate i will cry

Not to be an arse
But didn't the old pally TL do slam tests were he concluded that there was a hidden shield WS that effected slam hit/miss rate
Calculated from shield spec and dex

I only ask as it is counter to what Mythic themselves posted in a grab bag.

It's all a bit confusing

 

[Enli]

1) armsman, to high dmg, then again u just avoid em
2) thane, engage + insta's = zzzzzzz (or st3)
3) hunter, snaring pet, kiting hunter shooting ya
4) warden, like the eternal fight+buffstrip
5) skald/minstrel, when using sos

most things i mentioned comes with the playstyle i've given
and i admit if not playing like that, the order would be shuffled

 

[Raimo]

oh get real minstrels can hardly outdamage the hp regen mythirian

must be a sh*t minstrel then.

 

[Vodkafairy]

You can keep on roleplaying 1337 and female but you still got no clue regarding shield mechanics mate.

.

try reading the post again, before going childishly aggro

 

[Punishment]

Not to be an arse
But didn't the old pally TL do slam tests were he concluded that there was a hidden shield WS that effected slam hit/miss rate
Calculated from shield spec and dex

I only ask as it is counter to what Mythic themselves posted in a grab bag.

It's all a bit confusing

Its true , i have noticed on my hero manys a time that difference pre shield love to blockrate when 42 shield as oppossed to 50 shield with same dex is Huge , almost 50% but then again i cba doing tests swinging at my hero with my druid to confirm this

As for Dex not effecting slam thats is true also but your +shield spec will effect your chance to land slam

 

[Kagato]

from my POV... If I face a champ on my terms (the advantage of being a sneak) I can get stuck into them and push them hard... If ive got all my stuff I can win and do win... and the more I power up (still only rr5) the more I can get stuck into them... They are powerfull the debuffs are nasty... banelord gives all sorts of stuff and the rr5... However they dont have much in the way of HP and you can definfetly get stuck into them.. Same for most other classes actually I can get stuck into them... even wardens and maulers etc..

Armsmen I just cant touch... it feels like a complete mismatch being even when I do get through there defense I do bugger all damage regardless of weapon choice. And like I say they just hit too damn hard.

I must say though a good hero isnt too much different... So I guess an extreme heavy tank should be this way... but my god it would be nice to be able make a bit more of an impact on them.

Agreed but the same can be said for 2h classes and normal tanks verse wardens or shamans. You simply wont get the chance to make any impact unless they make a mistake no matter how well you play. Whereas a sneak as you call them or other strong dw class most likely could.

It's all relative to what you play, however there are some classes which are just to strong in many siturations rather then just in the right situration.

To my mind there should never be a situration where someone has absolutely no chance of winning whatsoever no matter how lucky they are against another person. Every class should have at least a tiny chance to win against another with enough odds and luck stacked in their favour. But we all know that is far from the case.

 

[Nuxtobatns]

lets turn it around, what makes it hard to play a thane for example in 1on1 fights, and VW? In comparison to for example a SB.

Well...sb is among the hardest melee classes around to play with i guess, so in many ways thane could be considered easier (yet entirely different).
As for thane in a 1vs1 melee fight (especially when we consider same rr/gear and stuff), it usually is more of a fight uphill rather than downhill. Mainly cause in most game numbers u come out lacking a little or more against your opponent. U usually got less hp, lower weapskill, (usually) less defences, practically no competitive 1vs1 Ml path and worse (melee wise) template (i think i got it all). Anyways..ofc thane has its bonuses, that basically consist of the true dual nature of the class...and the ability to do 2 types of dmg at the same time.

2) thane, engage + insta's = zzzzzzz (or st3)

engaging and using instas at the same time doesnt really work well, and whoever specs st3 (at least for a 1vs1) ... well ... no comment.


Anyways...As for what the thread is asking for, and considering that by 'talentless' it implies that some1 doesnt really need to give his best play to get some v good results... mainly cause of the really strong base the class provides .. my list would prolly go like that :
-Arms (and prolly Hero/Warrior could join in that). Thats cause of the obvious v good defences, the superior hp/ws and the v competent warlord ml, ofc while keeping a v good dmg (or excellent at the case of the pole arms).
-Warden. Basically for what it is with the defensive layers+spec healing and shield .... and ofc capability of the ml9-10 styles, cause of end regen+end redux buffs.
-Mauler. Fumble, tapping , pbt, good dmg, warlord, ra selection, hots ... all these make it quite easier to be able to compete. Also theability to be prepowered up with relative ease.. (i guess vamp good be in the same category;especially if powered up)

After those the list starts to have more 'earthly' classes that still require from some1 to be at least a decent player to be able to compete decently/well. Champs, valks, reavers maybe .. followed by tics/thanes maybe ... and the list goes on ...
Damn thats a long post.. pff

 

[Raven]

Dex does not effect slam rate, just block rate. when i was LW with zero MoDex and about 40 dex in temp i slammed just as much as when i had 95 Dex in temp and MoDex3