daoc 2; return of the broken assassins ?

[Mabs]

am i missing something really obvious here, or have mythic done it AGAIN?!

WH + WEs seem to be able to shred anything and everything in front of them, just watching them go is sickening.

please tell me im just watching unlucky people (and no i wont say "good players", they are strafing tards almost to a man )

 

[`mongoose]

Admit it, you're jealous of cal.

I dunno tbh - there's a few WH that seem to be very fkin good indeed. One of them handed my marauder his arse whilst fighting a Borc the other day.

Having said that - on occasion I've pounded the living shit out of them with my marauder and I've even been able to giggle at a couple trying to gank my shammy.

I think they're good classes certainly, but I also think there's some very good people with excellent builds and top quality gear who can and do achieve some pretty jaw droppingly good dps - these who are in the minority imo are skewing the perception. Just like some of the incredibly hard hitting BW and Sorcs skew the perception of those classes.


M

 

[Calaen]

Tbh there is a good few We's and WH's very active in Orvr, they are all pretty handy with their characters. From a WE perspective I usually steer clear of them, unless of course I know they have no idea I am jumping them.

The damage output of my WE is very nice, but it's pointless being able to do shit loads of damage and having to lead the front line or random other players. I deal shit loads of damage and then die gaining nothing.

I don't consider myself a good player btw, I press my abilities with my mouse while using the cursor to move, I don't strafe either. I enjoy my char though and I always have fun. I can and have killed some of the best out there with my style of play and I will continue to do so.

Scenarios are the gash, orvr is where it should be!!!!

 

[Mabs]

I don't consider myself a good player btw

was going to say can i have that in writing, but you already have

 

[Nate]

As an AM at 40 I'm pretty sure at least one of the culprits for a WE's insane dps is the procs, in tier 4 WE's procs go off nearly every swing(adding around 500 per round). I actually got hit by 2 different types of Kisses in one swing from one WE the other day. The procs cannot be detaunted to reduce it's damage. Then theres the ae knockdown, the ignore all armour from behind, don't they get a ignore 75% armour debuff aswell?, it all seems a little too much for a Career that can already creep up on you without you seeing it. You won't have much problem with procs on a WH though as they only fire when using Executions.

Then theres the problem with what I've heard is a difference in stealth abilities between realms. WE's can stealth while under fire, WH's can't and WH's pop themselves randomly from stealth.

From my point of view you can't even compare the two stealth careers.

 

[Bahumat]

I have a 40 WH but dont play it anymore. I sometimes would try to stealth whilst being attacked but if yiou get hit the cast bar really drops back down. I've been chasing WE's using throw weapon and they just stealth as if I was not there. Do they actually have an ability to re-stealth or does the knockback not affect them as much?

 

[Cylian]

checked your log for "Invalid Target"? That's what I get when trying to hit a stealthing WE, be it DD or AE.

 

[Calaen]

As an AM at 40 I'm pretty sure at least one of the culprits for a WE's insane dps is the procs, in tier 4 WE's procs go off nearly every swing(adding around 500 per round). I actually got hit by 2 different types of Kisses in one swing from one WE the other day. The procs cannot be detaunted to reduce it's damage. Then theres the ae knockdown, the ignore all armour from behind, don't they get a ignore 75% armour debuff aswell?, it all seems a little too much for a Career that can already creep up on you without you seeing it. You won't have much problem with procs on a WH though as they only fire when using Executions.

Then theres the problem with what I've heard is a difference in stealth abilities between realms. WE's can stealth while under fire, WH's can't and WH's pop themselves randomly from stealth.

From my point of view you can't even compare the two stealth careers.

Firstly the stealth thing is no different between either classes. both can press stealth while in battle, more times than not you get uncovered and they chase you around while in stealth or you just pop out of it for no reason.

Its hard to spec everything you are mentioning in your list as one WE

 

[Nate]

Firstly the stealth thing is no different between either classes. both can press stealth while in battle, more times than not you get uncovered and they chase you around while in stealth or you just pop out of it for no reason.

I guess thats your observation, mine differs.

Its hard to spec everything you are mentioning in your list as one WE

Witch Elf Career Builder - Warhammer Online Kisses(procs), Prowling(stealth), Agonizing Wound(Ignore armour from behind) are all base quite a few points left to get other things aswell You could do what I said at Rank 30.

 

[Xandax]

am i missing something really obvious here, or have mythic done it AGAIN?!

WH + WEs seem to be able to shred anything and everything in front of them, just watching them go is sickening.

please tell me im just watching unlucky people (and no i wont say "good players", they are strafing tards almost to a man )

Yes - Mythic did it again. At least this time it wasn't perma stealth.
To make up for that, they in this game just hit like they did in DAoC with buffbots.

 

[Jupitus]

The ignore armour debuff got nerfed to 50% I think

 

[mooSe_]

In my experience if you are with a group and a WH/WE pops on you you will probably die, but the WH/WE will also die like 1 second later and then your group can rez you and the WH/WE is miles away from their healers so they have to release. I don't really think they are very OP, just very annoying.

 

[Lubbock]

In my experience if you are with a group and a WH/WE pops on you you will probably die, but the WH/WE will also die like 1 second later and then your group can rez you and the WH/WE is miles away from their healers so they have to release. I don't really think they are very OP, just very annoying.

I agree with this one, they are not overpowered, if you get the jump on a dude or in a fight your allowed to stand behind and attack, then yes target dies, but the sec you get noticed you get killed, its all about hit and run tactics, so for me overpowered NO, Annoying as Hell Yes

 

[Ctuchik]

As an AM at 40 I'm pretty sure at least one of the culprits for a WE's insane dps is the procs, in tier 4 WE's procs go off nearly every swing(adding around 500 per round). I actually got hit by 2 different types of Kisses in one swing from one WE the other day. The procs cannot be detaunted to reduce it's damage. Then theres the ae knockdown, the ignore all armour from behind, don't they get a ignore 75% armour debuff aswell?, it all seems a little too much for a Career that can already creep up on you without you seeing it.

sems to be the case on all stealth classes in every game.

just because they get stealth they need to also have insane damage for some reason. as if picking their fights werent enough.

 

[Cadelin]

In my experience if you are with a group and a WH/WE pops on you you will probably die, but the WH/WE will also die like 1 second later and then your group can rez you and the WH/WE is miles away from their healers so they have to release. I don't really think they are very OP, just very annoying.

How is that not OP?
If you are solo: You die
If you are grouped: You die but the stealther also dies.
+ the stealther has an ability that means he can choose when to attack and is much more likely to catch you at a time when you are on your own.

I agree with this one, they are not overpowered, if you get the jump on a dude or in a fight your allowed to stand behind and attack, then yes target dies, but the sec you get noticed you get killed, its all about hit and run tactics, so for me overpowered NO, Annoying as Hell Yes

Having stealth means you WILL get the jump in the vast majority of cases. If getting the jump decides who wins the fight then stealthers are too powerful.

 

[Flimgoblin]

depends on the class whether you die...

The biggest killer is probably that on-move damage ability.

Unless you download an add on it's not at all obvious that it's present (green feet, just like a million other debuffs ) and unlike 'Gork sez stop' the fact that 'Sudden Accusation' means you should stop isn't exactly intuitive.

 

[Tallen]

depends on the class whether you die...

The biggest killer is probably that on-move damage ability.

Unless you download an add on it's not at all obvious that it's present (green feet, just like a million other debuffs ) and unlike 'Gork sez stop' the fact that 'Sudden Accusation' means you should stop isn't exactly intuitive.

This is exactly what i did, now when im debuffed a banner appears telling me what nasty little thing the WE has done to me.

They are still a bit too powerful for my liking, damage is fine but i still think they can take a bit too much damage.

 

[Afran]

Unless you download an add on it's not at all obvious that it's present (green feet, just like a million other debuffs ) and unlike 'Gork sez stop' the fact that 'Sudden Accusation' means you should stop isn't exactly intuitive.

Would have to disagree with that, I can very easily tell the debuffs apart

 

[Grotnob]

Biggest problem with Witch Elves and Witch Hunters, as I see it, is that people being attacked by them tend to think turning your back and running away is going to help the situation.

 

[Aqe]

L2P.

Rarely have problem with WH's. They pop you detaunt, and knockback. After that they are dead or disabled.

 

[Faeldawn]

L2P.

Rarely have problem with WH's. They pop you detaunt, and knockback. After that they are dead or disabled.

Yes, but you play a shammy and your not fighting WE's....

Try it on a RP, you don't have time to detaunt, knockback or anything else as by the time you see them, your usually silenced or dead. It would never be an issue if tanks knew their job wasn't to try and DPS, but to defend the weak, when guarded by an attentive tank and have keen eyed DPS around who are keeping an eye on me i have no problem with WE's, however thats not very common. Christ, it's rare i even have guard from a tank who's half a zone away, let alone a defensive one.

This is why, imo, WE's appear stupidly powerful. The game mechanics are there to neutralise them but it takes intelligent play from party members. As players are generally mindless pew-pew fanatics (and who can blame em, it's more fun to play that way ), WE's reign supreme.

 

[Lollie]

its the all the cc WE have and that fact i rarely get the chance to defend myself that annoys the shit out of me

 

[Ormorof]

i was going to write something harsh, decided against it but figure now i might as well, the reason its possible to survive WE/WH attacks (And im not saying this counts for all of them as ive been mullered by many assasins ) is that it seems alot of people have no idea how to make it work properly so thankfully despite their high damage etc if you react quickly enough you can survive

 

[Lollie]

ofc its possible, if you get detaunt and (for rp's) grimnirs shields up you have a very good chance to survive until help arrives, BUT its getting the damn things up in time

 

[Ctuchik]

i was going to write something harsh, decided against it but figure now i might as well, the reason its possible to survive WE/WH attacks (And im not saying this counts for all of them as ive been mullered by many assasins ) is that it seems alot of people have no idea how to make it work properly so thankfully despite their high damage etc if you react quickly enough you can survive

sure it is, against clueless WH/WE's. but then again, that counts for all classes with a clueless user

a WH or WE that actually know his class isnt about to give you much of a chance, despite you knowing YOUR class. if they can start on you from stealth its usually a pretty onesided fight.

so yes, thankfully not many ppl thats playing stealthers in warhammer know the potential of the class yet, or atleast havent havent understood how to bring it out, so atm its atleast berable, i just dread to think what will come when more of em start to understand what they are doing.

 

[Calaen]

Yes, but you play a shammy and your not fighting WE's....

Try it on a RP, you don't have time to detaunt, knockback or anything else as by the time you see them, your usually silenced or dead. It would never be an issue if tanks knew their job wasn't to try and DPS, but to defend the weak, when guarded by an attentive tank and have keen eyed DPS around who are keeping an eye on me i have no problem with WE's, however thats not very common. Christ, it's rare i even have guard from a tank who's half a zone away, let alone a defensive one.

This is why, imo, WE's appear stupidly powerful. The game mechanics are there to neutralise them but it takes intelligent play from party members. As players are generally mindless pew-pew fanatics (and who can blame em, it's more fun to play that way ), WE's reign supreme.

I couldnt agree more, Zygorian (order Rp) is a master at the class, it's pointless attacking him if there is help around because he knows exactly how to use all of his classes abilities to allow his survival. Even when he is on his own he can make the fight drag out way over 15 seconds.

The biggest Problem I have is this IS assist thing doing the rounds. I should have more damage than anyone as long as people are allowed to use this. It's pointless attaking anyone in a group because they scream and everyone around them heals them with a simple click of a button. It's a joke.

So give my WE more damage and medium armour, along with a self ress buff and health regen spell and I think we'll call it squits.

 

[mooSe_]

So give my WE more damage and medium armour, along with a self ress buff and health regen spell and I think we'll call it squits.

And while you're at it, give my zealot the same dps power as a sorceror.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

I'm all in favour of removing stealth from both classes and giving them a "damage absorb" ability in it's place with similar reuse timers (negates say 70/80/90% of the damage received at the cost of AP drain. Of course the damagae shield ability would drop upon using an "opener" much the same as incog/prowl does.

And for gods sake remove the movement dot from both classes, it's the biggest source of whine against them both by far (i'm saying remove it and i have a 40WH - although admittedly it's not of that much use to us with the fleet foot bug on the WE currently admittedly)

It's just not a fair or balanced ability - any class without a "cure" ability has to stand there and take the full dps of the WH/WE, or move and take similar dps by avoiding a few hits but taking the dot dps.

 

[Calaen]

It's just not a fair or balanced ability - any class without a "cure" ability has to stand there and take the full dps of the WH/WE, or move and take similar dps by avoiding a few hits but taking the dot dps.

I dont even use the movement dot anymore. I prefer the other two, cant beat casters thinking they have a chance against you and they burn themselves down along with you cutting their faces off. tanks/dps classes better to drop vehement on them and let them bash themselves as well. I find this route far more effective.

There is a few classes that get the moevement dot ability though so it will have to be dropped from more than just WE/WH. I do like it in theroy though it makes people turn and fight (well in reality it should)

 

[Ctuchik]

So give my WE more damage and medium armour, along with a self ress buff and health regen spell and I think we'll call it squits.

or you could just get better at your class

i've seen solo WE's and WH's aim for a heler inside a group and end up killing it before dropping himself.

and were talking about groups that usually KNOWS the stealther is around, so its not like he's got much of a surprise moment.


like i said, i'm happy most stealthers havent figured things out yet, but when they do were gonna see some massive nerfs incomming.