D.i.v.o.r.c.e

[old.Tohtori]

Falling on your bike might have a "lasting impact", eating bad ice craem might do that too. Doesn't mean it's bad, scarring and so forth.

Only thing that's proven there is that people have illogical hang-ups on past things. If you're an adult and still have guilty feelings of your parents divorce, like it was somehow your fault, then someone needs to slap some sense into you.

 

[Chosen]

Falling on your bike might have a "lasting impact", eating bad ice craem might do that too. Doesn't mean it's bad, scarring and so forth.

Only thing that's proven there is that people have illogical hang-ups on past things. If you're an adult and still have guilty feelings of your parents divorce, like it was somehow your fault, then someone needs to slap some sense into you.

Read this: Divorce and Children

edit: And do you have the same attitude towards war veterans that have problems afterwards?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Read this: Divorce and Children

edit: And do you have the same attitude towards war veterans that have problems afterwards?

I'm not even going to discuss comparing a divorce and war veterans. IF you think they are at all on the same level, it's moot already.

On your link, 20% of kids might have problems, aka 80% will be fine, and even then those 20% are to some degree on bad parenting/handling of the divorce.

And even STILL, when you grow up, you should realise "Well that was what needed to happen, oh well." and move the f*ck on.

 

[Chosen]

I'm not even going to discuss comparing a divorce and war veterans. IF you think they are at all on the same level, it's moot already.

On your link, 20% of kids might have problems, aka 80% will be fine, and even then those 20% are to some degree on bad parenting/handling of the divorce.

And even STILL, when you grow up, you should realise "Well that was what needed to happen, oh well." and move the f*ck on.

People react differently on things, and it's not just to "move the fuck on" like you say.

You obviously live in a bubble, and seems to not have much knowledge on mental illnesses

I am both a war veteran and a children of divorce, and no matter what kind of mental illness your left with. It's still to be taken serious

 

[old.Tohtori]

Claiming i live in a bubble pretty much ended that discussion.

But yes, outside some extreme cases(which can be put on other problems already being there), it's a case of move the f*ck on.

I never discussed special cases, mental illness etc.

On a sidenote; never did notice how many ad hominem there are on this forum.

 

[Zenith.UK]

Okay, I've had enough. I'm not rising to it and I'm not prepared to engage with you any more.

old.Tohtori added to ignore list.

 

[old.Tohtori]

As per usual, all is fine until sore spot touched. that lovely human two-face action

Oh and a negrep as a cherry on top, how wonderfully adult of you. Oh well.

 

[Chosen]

As per usual, all is fine until sore spot touched. that lovely human two-face action

Oh and a negrep as a cherry on top, how wonderfully adult of you. Oh well.

You really don't see it do you?

Just because you've had it easy going when it came to your own personal experience of divorce, doesn't mean everyone else have.

It's like trying to tell a guy who screams of pain by getting shot, that it doesn't hurt, because you didn't feel anything when it happened to you.

By trying to convince people of something, that they themself have experiences(including me), by telling them that they should just "Move the fuck on", because you yourself find it to be nothing serious - Is rather provocativ and personal.

And to add the fact, that you are no way near a expert on anything at all, to tell anyone that their mental illness is not really a mental illness.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I see it, but did you notice the point where i said i wasn't talking about special cases? Nowhere was i claiming that someones mental illness isn't one.

If you got a mental problem, ofcourse you won't deal with it like a regular person. But if you don't, you're just attention seeking, or doing the modern "ooh look at me i have issues" thing. Much like those who call depression because they had a shitty day.

Takes away from the real problems.

So, just because you evidently missed it, here's the same line with bold letters;

"But yes, outside some extreme cases(which can be put on other problems already being there), it's a case of move the f*ck on."

In a nutshell, so there's no confusion or nitpicking some part of the answers; divorce isn't the reason for a massive outbreak of problem adults, there are some cases sure(as said, other elements involved), but mainly the kids grow up fine. Bigger problem is not handling the situation well, other mental issues and such.

So how about you discuss the issue, and nto take everything as a personal attack.

 

[Chosen]

I think divorce is fine, it doesn't harm the kids in any real manner, atleast not lasting, and if things don't work out, people shouldn't stay/fight/be miserable just because of an archaic notion that marriage is somehow sacred.

That's what i meant with no lasting harm. Anyone who has a couple of screws tightened, realises when they get older, why and how the divorce went down and realise that there was a good reason.

In these two earlier posts here, you seem very confident that a divorce wont leave a lasting impact on children?

My parents divorce wasnt very extreme at all, quite normal actually. Where the parents use the children again eachother!(This is a very common thing in divorces.) Stilll, this had a huge impact on two of my siblings. Who til this day still lasts.

And by actually reading your earlier posts here(look quote), your point of view is that everyone who gets affected by this, must have some screws loose? And this only backed up by your own experience, which didn't leave an impact?

And not talking about mental illnesses, you still got the rippler effect of actions you do during your childhood! Like getting in jail, dropping out of school, starting with drugs. Which all might give a lasting impact of your life, and all because of a reaction you had of your parents divorcing.

You're seriously to narrow minded for your own good, and it's time to get out of your bubble. And see that the world is alot more then what your mind is set at!

Untill then, I am going to put you on my ignore list aswell. Since I know that further discussion will just provoke me beyond limit. And I wont risk getting banned!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Enjoy, though why you have to wave your epeen around while doing so, is beyond me.

You see what i say in your own way and i can't help that, if you're annoyed, can't help it.

And yes, you yourself called them mental illnesses, which indicates a few screw loose.

Otherwise i did point out the real reasons why kids get screwed up when there's no family unit, but ignoring it makes your point easier.

 

[Tom]

Sigh.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh look, another one who doesn't actually discuss things and only jumps on the ad hominem train.

Putting FH in the real world section is a bit of a stretch though

 

[ford prefect]

There are countless studies on the effect of divorce on children and in general they all reach similar conclusions:

In general boys are more at risk as more often than not the mother gets custody and a same gender role-model isn’t present, making it more difficult to adjust to the divorce.

Younger (and vulnerable) children carry the greatest short term risk as they are less capable of adapting to the change and uncertainty involved in a divorce. Children close to or after puberty carry a greater long term risk, as often in the short term close relationships with peers are easily used to repress emotions regarding the divorce.

Then there is the degree into which the child is brought into the causes of the marital conflict. Confusion, anger, frustration and conflicts of loyalty have long lasting effects on these relationships.

You also need to consider the relationship with each parent after the divorce. In the best of circumstances, one parent will be unable to fully fulfil their role as a nurturing and positive influence. In other cases children become a part of an ongoing conflict. In the worst of circumstances the child may be in a position where contact is suddenly and completely lost with a parent, which in many situations is going to be a form of bereavement or abandonment.

There are also socio-economic factors to consider during divorce, and the sudden changes to the child’s upbringing. Divorce can often mean that financially a single parent can struggle to meet that child’s needs. Indeed one of the key causes of child poverty in western cultures is divorce.

By and large we learn our moral and social values from our parents as well as the nurture we need when we are young. Seeing them in conflict, or indeed losing one of them, can have a life long affect on anyone and can have an impact on future relationships as an adult.

Saying that it is whining or attention seeking is absolute nonsense. Our childhood experiences play a large part in defining who we are and how we develop and our attitude towards many aspects of you lives.

And no, I am not saying every child suffers a life long impact from divorce; because it depends entirely on the circumstances, but a lot of children do have very negative repercussions from divorce.

 

[old.Tohtori]

The funthing about being an adult is that you can choose to change your view. You don't have to be a socially awkward guy, or afraid of relationships. All you need to do is adapt, change, in effect, get over it.

Anyone can do it, if it's not a mental disorder(or similar).

That's the whole point and that's why i say many have these "issues"(in general), because they get their attantion.

On the divorce effects, as i said, it's more to do with how the parents handle the situation, not the divorce in itself. In effect; poor parenting = traumatic divorce. Not divorce = trauma.

 

[rynnor]

I'm not convinced you got away unscathed frankly.

Yeah, being that my parents divorced when i was 13-14, with a violent drunk father, no, nothing at all.

It could for instance have shaped your attitude to marriage...

Yes i do have a bit of an issue with people celebrating the fact that they get along so well they can bump uglies

It's not an achievement!

Would like to hear some reasoning for marriage though, outside the financial gains.

And then theres this...

Falling on your bike might have a "lasting impact", eating bad ice craem might do that too. Doesn't mean it's bad, scarring and so forth.

Only thing that's proven there is that people have illogical hang-ups on past things. If you're an adult and still have guilty feelings of your parents divorce, like it was somehow your fault, then someone needs to slap some sense into you.

Are you telling us or telling yourself?

 

[old.Tohtori]

My attitude towards marriage came at a later age for sure, when i realised how pointless it is to celebrate being together like that and because i saw no real point in needing a piece of paper to prove your love.

That doesn't mean i'm not a hopeless romantic, notions of "the one" and so forth, just that i don't find marriage at all useful.

The bumping uglies was a cynical joke type of thing, evidently not so obvious.

I wasn't telling anyone, i was saying an opinion on how ridicilous those hang-ups are.

Any more "smart" revelations there? Or are you quite done with the usual "let's make this about toht" crap?

Nice bit of hominomnom there btw.

 

[Thorwyn]

Whilte it´s true that people are getting married too early these days (whatever too early means), the question is, whether this is the cause or a symptom of the ammount of divorces.

A divorce doesn´t come with any social consequences these days. Just like Russel described, back in the days, it used to be a real stigma for the child and the family. Nowadays, it´s quite normal. Nobody is looking down on you because you or your parents are divorced. And this certainly has an impact on the decision of getting married in the first place.

I honestly think that the trend is positive for everyone.. the parents as well as the child. The myth of a lifelong relation with one person just doesn´t work out for the majority of people. Love is not an absolute fact, it´s subject to change and development.And that´s a lesson to learn for everybody, especially the child. It might be a painful lesson, but at any rate it´s better than living in a motherhood-and-apple-pie world just to find out that you have been lied to since you were born at some point.

 

[throdgrain]

Too early these days? People are getting married later these days ...

To say divorce doesnt effect the children is just a lazy (ex) parents way of making themselves feel better with just another excuse for thier own selfishness quite a lot of the time.

 

[Thorwyn]

To say divorce doesnt effect the children is just a lazy (ex) parents way of making themselves feel better with just another excuse for thier own selfishness quite a lot of the time.

Of course it has an effect on the child. But so does the "pretending to be a good family" thing in the long run.
And there is nothing selfish about splitting up with your partner (as long as both still care about their child), it´s a natural thing.

 

[throdgrain]

It's selfish.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nothing wrong in being selfish nwo and then. Weird how that word has become a nono.

If you weren't at all selfish, you'd be up a certain creek with no paddle.

As said, the problem isn't people splitting up, it's people acting like morons about it. It's the same as morons raising children together, problems shall occur. Effect does not equal harm and almsot every day effects a kid, so you have to be a bit selfish when raising a kid, otherwise the kid will grow up pampered, spoiled and turn into a wanker/needy b*tch.

 

[Aoami]

To Zenith i must ask - why are you not in therapy if you realise that your parents divorce is having such a big impact on your mental wellbeing?

 

[Zenith.UK]

To Zenith i must ask - why are you not in therapy if you realise that your parents divorce is having such a big impact on your mental wellbeing?

There's a difference between impact and day-to-day mental wellbeing.
The impact from childhood cannot be denied. I was seriously fucked up for many years as a direct consequence of what happened then.
15 years later I fell for a woman.
2 years later she became pregnant and had our first child the year after. It took time but I slowly got used to the idea.
5 years later we got married and we've had 2 more kids since.

You can see that I was addressing my issues one at a time. Relationships, children, marriage... all overcome in turn. I was "getting over it" in my own way, in my own time. The guilt about my parents isn't disabling and it doesn't impact my day-to-day life, but it's there under the surface and it's one situation I can't do anything about. Not being able to do anything about it, I don't worry about it any more. It's gone but not forgotten.

 

[old.user4556]

YouTube - Billy Connolly - Divorce

 

[throdgrain]

To Zenith i must ask - why are you not in therapy if you realise that your parents divorce is having such a big impact on your mental wellbeing?

Is this a serious question ?

 

[Aoami]

Why shouldn't it be? Some people go through traumatic experiences that have a huge effect on their mental wellbeing, and then choose to see a therapist.

I don't get it.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Is this a serious question ?

Well it doesn't mean a psychiatrist. Counselling will take care of most.

Regarding Toh's experiences, if the posts on this thread are genuine then clearly divorce has had an impact but its probably lost in the effects of an abusive parent/parents. There are always effects afterwards, but the depth of effect will vary depending on circumstances.

And having been through something doesn't necessarily mean coming out of it with any real understanding of what happened. Again, if genuine, some of the above posts pretty much prove that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

As i said already, difference in impact and lasting harm.

 

[MYstIC G]

Would you rather see your parents living separately, more or less happy or your parents together, fighting constantly, I know which one would have more of an effect on me.

Actually from my own personal experience it fits the human condition perfectly, you want them together but you want the happy version and know you can never have that but it doesn't stop you wanting it.

Anyway divorce numbers increasing to me is another example of the fact that these days people don't have to take responsibility for anything.

Have a kid, walk away.
Get married, walk away.
Beat people up, walk away.

It's not going to change but I think it's a shame.