D.i.v.o.r.c.e

[russell]

Not me -not yet anyway!

More and more of my friends, with kids, are separating, having affairs, divorcing or having councilling about their relationship.
Basically after they wake up from the baby/ small child phase, they seem to be thinking is this it? Do I want to be with this person, for ever, like this? What does this man/ woman actually bring to the table...

Rewind 30 years, when I was at school I was the ONLY one in my class whose parents were divorced and people took pity on me and frowned upon my mum -some of her own family didnt speak to her for years.

In my class now (I am a teacher) over half of the children are from 'broken families' and the majority are fine. It is now the norm - but still something the government blame for the breakdown of society (which is utter crap -I grew up with 'single parent families' children never do well, resort to crime, dont get A levels, dont go to uni, drop outs etc- It is how the child is parented that counts, be it 1, 2, 3, or 4 parents. It is the example, attitudes, values and beliefs that child is given that determine their contribution to society -anyway I go off on a tangent...)

Back now!
So I am starting to see divorce as a positive thing that allows choice -if you are stuck, dont love the person anymore, you can escape and make a better life. However I am aware it costs an arm and a leg and the children can be unsettled (I dont think it scars them for life any more) and that the ending of any relationship is painful.

So thoughts/experiences of divorce please?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ah damn, here i was thinking you're available *cancel flight*

I think divorce is fine, it doesn't harm the kids in any real manner, atleast not lasting, and if things don't work out, people shouldn't stay/fight/be miserable just because of an archaic notion that marriage is somehow sacred.

Get out, get laid, be happy and for the love of all that is white in the underwear, stop b*tching about your "bad relationship" if you don't ahve the balls to leave.

 

[Chosen]

I think divorce is fine, it doesn't harm the kids in any real manner, atleast not lasting, and if things don't work out, people shouldn't stay/fight/be miserable just because of an archaic notion that marriage is somehow sacred.

That really depends alot, I got friends who have been really affected by the divorce of their parents, even tho it was many years ago.

It all goes down to what age you are when it happens, and what terms your parents end the relationship with.

As for my own parents, it didn't end well. It was a fight between them all the time. Especially from my mothers side, who tried everything to make sure my Dad shouldnt have anything to do with us.(Got lawyers, made up stories about him beeing mean to her.)

As for me, I've been really "cold" towards most of my family. And doesn't really seem to care much anymore.

The worse part is for my siblings really, it's easy to see that they have been affected by our parents. Even tho this was many years ago!

 

[Madmaxx]

both of my parents had a divorce before they met eachother, now they've divorced eachother; and one of my brothers has just got divorced. 3 out of my 4 aunts have got divorced and also my uncle has aswell lol. Thinking about it I only know about 4 family members including my nan and grandad of hasn't got divorced haha.

 

[old.user4556]

People get married too fast these days.

My mates are all under extreme pressure to get married to their girlfriends, it seems to be a constant hot potato for them. As couples, they show up with their faces like fizz, or have arguments on nights outs, or I get an email from my mate asking for relationship advice because they've been told "marriage or I walk away".

It's disgraceful and plainly obvious that if you get married under duress then it's clearly never going to last.

Personally, I don't believe there is one person out there for us, a "soul mate" or "the one". My opinion is corroborated in that my mates don't want to get married because of the "what if..." that's always there in the back of their mind, "one vagina" for the rest of their lives? Scary thought!

This also ties in nicely with why women like to be surrounded by male friends (a lá Chris Rock); if it all goes wrong, there's always a few backups!

 

[TdC]

imo people get married too fast anyway. (edit: ooh Hi Big G ) I personally know exactly one couple who've lasted together to see their golden anniversary (my aunt). She's from the generation where people had long engagements, and they stuck to their guns through thick and thin. Gosh, I wonder why they had those things?

Tbh what I saw with lady friends around me, is that they seem to be under enormous pressure (from their lady friends) to have kids. This causes some weird kind of marriage pressure to occur, which then, one presumes, gets placed on their partner.

Ofc, the sticking to one's guns thing is not done these days. Stuff is always someone else's fault, everything must be perfect, gratification must be instant, etcetera.

Just my 2c.

 

[old.user4556]

Tbh what I saw with lady friends around me, is that they seem to be under enormous pressure (from their lady friends) to have kids. This causes some weird kind of marriage pressure to occur, which then, one presumes, gets placed on their partner.

YES! Hammer, meet Mr Nail!

My closest mate is of the opinion that "she only wants to get married, because her pals are getting married and she wants to be part of it and have the 'big white wedding'"

I've just been asked to be a best man, I understand that the average wedding is around £20k-£30k - what a colossal and insane waste of money.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I've just been asked to be a best man, I understand that the average wedding is around £20k-£30k - what a colossal and insane waste of money.

Quite, and the reasoning for it is insane too. "It's her special day", "we need to celebrate this union" and ofcourse the best one, "you only get married once!".

 

[TdC]

heh, my ex and I were discussing marriage once. luckily we were quite aligned as our plan was to avoid the whole rigmarole you're allegedly supposed to do and just pop past the council to get registered, spend some of the money we just saved (by not being idiots) to take a few of our close friends out to dinner followed by a holiday for the two of us in some awesome place. that would cost about 10% of what the festivities society forces on you tend to cost, and we'd have a much more personal experience. win.

 

[Ctuchik]

Not me -not yet anyway!

More and more of my friends, with kids, are separating, having affairs, divorcing or having councilling about their relationship.
Basically after they wake up from the baby/ small child phase, they seem to be thinking is this it? Do I want to be with this person, for ever, like this? What does this man/ woman actually bring to the table...

Rewind 30 years, when I was at school I was the ONLY one in my class whose parents were divorced and people took pity on me and frowned upon my mum -some of her own family didnt speak to her for years.

In my class now (I am a teacher) over half of the children are from 'broken families' and the majority are fine. It is now the norm - but still something the government blame for the breakdown of society (which is utter crap -I grew up with 'single parent families' children never do well, resort to crime, dont get A levels, dont go to uni, drop outs etc- It is how the child is parented that counts, be it 1, 2, 3, or 4 parents. It is the example, attitudes, values and beliefs that child is given that determine their contribution to society -anyway I go off on a tangent...)

Back now!
So I am starting to see divorce as a positive thing that allows choice -if you are stuck, dont love the person anymore, you can escape and make a better life. However I am aware it costs an arm and a leg and the children can be unsettled (I dont think it scars them for life any more) and that the ending of any relationship is painful.

So thoughts/experiences of divorce please?

Ppl rush into marriage to fast imo, they see all their friends getting married and having kids and doesn't want to be the last. So they kinda take what they can get, without being absolutely sure it's really what they want.

Probably all thanks to the everlasting question "So when are you gonna get married *smug smile*"...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Or you could forgo the marriage altogether and have even a nicer holiday to celebrate your awesome togetherness

Yes i do have a bit of an issue with people celebrating the fact that they get along so well they can bump uglies

It's not an achievement!

Would like to hear some reasoning for marriage though, outside the financial gains.

 

[Gwadien]

The equality in society has allowed this, look back 100 years, even if the wife absolutely hated the guts out of her husband, she couldn't split up, she'd have nothing, and let's face it, that didn't really change until the 80's/90's ( People may argue earlier but females began to start realising the power they had until 80's/90's )

You could say that alot less people got divorced, because they'd have nothing if they left each other, they may have stayed together, but they may have hated each others guts at the same time, but the whole image of a woman being 'seen but not heard' played a large part of this

Whereas now, you can leave your hubbie/wifey, and be fine, start again you could say...

In my opinion, I think the society we live in now ( in terms of relationships ) is alot less broken than people think, again, look at the marriages that were full of hate etc, but living a life with a fake facade... but people didn't care what happened behind closed doors, aslong as in public, they were fine, but the children see what happens behind closed doors and that's what damages them..

Would you rather see your parents living seperately, more or less happy or your parents together, fighting constantly, I know which one would have more of an effect on me.

 

[old.user4556]

It's a female pissing contest. Biggest cake, most expensive dress, biggest diamond ring etc.

Toht, don't quote me on it, but I understand there are some important bits such as children and inheritance (which I suppose is financial gains).

 

[rynnor]

So I am starting to see divorce as a positive thing that allows choice -if you are stuck, dont love the person anymore, you can escape and make a better life. However I am aware it costs an arm and a leg and the children can be unsettled (I dont think it scars them for life any more) and that the ending of any relationship is painful

You seem to be rationalising your way to a divorce?

People shouldnt stay together just for the kids but I sometimes think people break up for frivolous reasons - probably because they got married for frivolous reasons.

There's often a strong element of 'the grass is always greener' to such divorces. Some people seem to be in love with the 'idea' of being in love and once the mystery dis-appears they want to move on to another doomed relationship.

Post-divorce can be very messy - a colleagues Mrs found herself a new bloke and kicked him out but they have a strongly autistic son so they have to pretend nothing has changed in front of him as he cant handle changes.

He's still paying the mortgage and supporting her but this means he doesnt really have enough money to move on with his life.

I hope to never get divorced but guess thats down to the other half...

 

[Sparx]

My dad who i love so much and is my hero is my step dad, i call him dad and to me thats who he is. I dont remember my bio dad at all

 

[Ctuchik]

I think divorce is fine, it doesn't harm the kids in any real manner, atleast not lasting

Oooh, mr "argument-for-arguments-sake" is back..

No in many cases it doesn't. But in probably just many cases (like when violence is involved) it can be horribly scarring for the kids for many many years.

And kids can't shrug off aeven a "friendly" divorce thinking "shit happens", they undoubtedly will think it's their fault, and some kids never stop thinking that because their parents use said kids as a weapon.

Seriously Toht, you need to open your eyes a tad and look outside.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Toht, don't quote me on it, but I understand there are some important bits such as children and inheritance (which I suppose is financial gains).

Sorry for the quotep), but yeah, that might be a good reason. Not sure how heritage works, based on marriage, or just DNA.

Oooh, mr "argument-for-arguments-sake" is back..

No in many cases it doesn't. But in probably just many cases (like when violence is involved) it can be horribly scarring for the kids for many many years.

And kids can't shrug off aeven a "friendly" divorce thinking "shit happens", they undoubtedly will think it's their fault, and some kids never stop thinking that because their parents use said kids as a weapon.

Seriously Toht, you need to open your eyes a tad and look outside.

Nothing to do with argument for arguments sake, actual experience on the matter helps you know.

You claiming "undoubtedly will think it's their fault" is bullcrap, clean and simple. As is using the kid as a weapon. You're effectively making a 100% claim, while saying i'm wrong in sayig a 100% claim. Which isn't even the case, you thinking i'm saying "kids aren't effected" is wrong. Then again, you might consider a sadface harm.

If the kids are permanently scarred by it, they have bigger issues to worry about as they've been living a nanny-shealtered life up to that point.

Seriously Sputnik, you need to experience it.

Oh and, where did i go since i'm now "back"? Or was that possibly a simple ad hominem? Hmm?

 

[old.user4556]

Both of you; please stop before yet another thread gets fucking boring.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Both of you; please stop before yet another thread gets fucking boring.

Fair enough

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I think divorce is fine, it doesn't harm the kids in any real manner, atleast not lasting,

This part pretty much proves you know nothing on this subject Toh

 

[old.Tohtori]

This part pretty much proves you know nothing on this subject Toh

Yeah, being that my parents divorced when i was 13-14, with a violent drunk father, no, nothing at all.

So how's your experience?

Just to add; sometimes divorce is a f*cking blessing, instead of a "deeply emotionally wounding boohoo experience" like Sputnik there tried to enforce.

 

[russell]

You seem to be rationalising your way to a divorce?

People shouldnt stay together just for the kids but I sometimes think people break up for frivolous reasons - probably because they got married for frivolous reasons.

There's often a strong element of 'the grass is always greener' to such divorces. Some people seem to be in love with the 'idea' of being in love and once the mystery dis-appears they want to move on to another doomed relationship.

Post-divorce can be very messy - a colleagues Mrs found herself a new bloke and kicked him out but they have a strongly autistic son so they have to pretend nothing has changed in front of him as he cant handle changes.

He's still paying the mortgage and supporting her but this means he doesnt really have enough money to move on with his life.

I hope to never get divorced but guess thats down to the other half...

No I dont want to divorce my husband. I am just interested about the positives as we always focus on the negatives. The subject interests me as it surrounds me everyday in my social circle and I am a child of divorce.

 

[russell]

Good post Gwadien

 

[Gwadien]

Good post Gwadien

Im waiting for a comment like that from Chet

 

[russell]

We got married when we wanted to. (We lived together for 5 years first to see if we could stand the horror) We did have a dream day, but it wasnt the biggest, or best by other people's standards -it was just how we wanted it.
I am sad to say that you are probably right tho BG and TDC some people do use it as a female pissing contest, get pushed into it, think that the 'in love' flush lasts for ever.
I disagree that all children are scarred -plently of sensible parents put their kids first and appear to get on and make sure they know its not their fault nowadays.
Gotta Go... Dr Who..

 

[Aoami]

Just to add; sometimes divorce is a f*cking blessing, instead of a "deeply emotionally wounding boohoo experience" like Sputnik there tried to enforce.

Must agree. Although I found it difficult to take at the time (i was also about 13-14 when my parents divorced, the period is hazy), I know it was for the best. My mother was extremely unhappy and had no sort of life when she was married, now she is very happy and has the job she always wanted to do which my dad wouldn't let her do.

From a childs perspective, it was difficult, there is no denying that, especially at that age when I was young and naive, but knew enough to see what was going on.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That's what i meant with no lasting harm. Anyone who has a couple of screws tightened, realises when they get older, why and how the divorce went down and realise that there was a good reason.

People get so hellbent on protecting kids feelings and not hurt them so that there's no scarring, but really, it has to be some sinister s*ht for a kid to actually go bonkers for the rest of life.

 

[Zenith.UK]

That's what i meant with no lasting harm. Anyone who has a couple of screws tightened, realises when they get older, why and how the divorce went down and realise that there was a good reason.

People get so hellbent on protecting kids feelings and not hurt them so that there's no scarring, but really, it has to be some sinister s*ht for a kid to actually go bonkers for the rest of life.

I don't usually post with anger but this time I am absolutely livid with rage.

Your personal experience of your parent's divorce was positive because you had a violent, drunk father and you were 13-14. You were old enough to understand the reason and that it was actually a good thing for you to get out of that situation.

My parents divorced when I was 8. From my point of view, there was nothing wrong in the lead-up to it. My parents weren't nasty, abusive, drunk, violent or any of the usual reasons. They simply didn't love each other any more. One night I was sat down and asked who would I want to live with. I said "Both of you". They said that it wasn't possible and I'd have to choose one or the other. In that exact moment I thought it was my fault that my parents were separating. That thought stays with me even today, 30 years later. I know rationally that it wasn't my fault and I even know the reasons (now) why they split, but it doesn't dislodge the feeling that it was my fault.

I was brought up in a christian tradition and went to Sunday school. Not long after the separation, I questioned why God would allow something like this to happen. I determined that He wouldn't and so therefore He doesn't exist. I lost my faith and my belief in God and Christianity at that point. It's why I'm the atheist I am today.

When I was 9, I thought that I would never want any other children to suffer what I went through and decided that I wasn't going to have any children... ever. The best way to not have children was to simply not get into a relationship with anyone and never get married. No marriage, no divorce.

I held onto those opinions for a long time, more than 20 years. My childhood memories are split into before the divorce and after the divorce. My parent's divorce doesn't define me, but it had a major impact on my development. So tell me again that divorce doesn't scar the children? I'm no longer the broken person I once was, but there are still cracks to show where I was put back together.

It took one special woman to get me to reassess my opinion on long-term relationships, children and marriage. I've been with her for 15 years now and married for 8. We both had emotional trauma from the breakup of our respective parents and that's probably why we're going to last. We know the signs to watch for and head off trouble before it becomes a problem.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well like i said, if you're an adult and still got some hang ups on a logical situation like that, the divorce isn't your biggest problem. Hell, you decided that you don't want kids when you were 9 and stuck to that little kid decicion.

Go ahead and rage all you want, i'll put it in the same category as your assesment of my "laid back" reactions of my parents divorce.

FYI; bet you wouldn't want any other woman, she's perfect for you and all that? Wouldn't be there without the divorce. Might even be a hardcore christian, with your own kids being raised up as hardcore christians.

 

[Chosen]

Well like i said, if you're an adult and still got some hang ups on a logical situation like that, the divorce isn't your biggest problem.

Go ahead and rage all you want, i'll put it in the same category as your assesment of my "laid back" reactions of my parents divorce.

Well, even tho you got away easy with it. Doesnt mean everyone do, it's actually a proven fact. That a divorce when a young child is involved, might leave a impact that lasts life out on the children.