Current state of class balancing

[Zaagazug]

Hench why my vote goes out to a Marauder nerf as being one of the first nerfs in game ;p

Pretty sure this might be the case as well. This does not mean that BWs will not require tuning but in the last build in the CB Sorc's were slightly ahead of BWs in the damage department in T4. Marauders were extremely good with moderate healing due to piercing bite + widespread demolition tactics and AE knock-down. We will see

 

[Sanzor]

Can't say what needs a nerf or not, since I've only played a single char so far. I've made a Squig Herder, but it's so low level it's hard to judge anything. I can't complain about BW as a Marauder, as I have a decent chance of approaching them and tear them apart.

If people wanna scream nerf regarding everything, then do some tests and use screenshots. Also take in consideration of resists, which are easily pumped up from dropped items. I'm lvl 21 and got around 200+ in all 3 resistances...no clue how much that helps, but according to combat chat it's helpful.

 

[Soazak]

Apparently resists are broken: Resist Mechanics: Why BWs seem OP - Warhammer Forums

so BWs are hitting a lot more than they should (as well as other magic classes). Research apparently done by a BW, interesting reading.

 

[Succi]

Apparently resists are broken: Resist Mechanics: Why BWs seem OP - Warhammer Forums

so BWs are hitting a lot more than they should (as well as other magic classes). Research apparently done by a BW, interesting reading.

melee crits also dont face mitigation atm

 

[Aerendur]

There are a few things that seem unbalanced to me atm. Most of them have been named in here.

1. roots, both sides can completely lock down enemy tanks with 2 (or 3) root characters working together.

2. melee dps, destruction seems to be higher on all melee output:
The most obvious: Marauder has no real counterpart in the order ranks. WL is nice but a lot more squishy.
Chosen > SM (they are not supposed to be mirror class, but atm they are the only options).
DOK > Warrior priest. They do better damage and seem to heal better.

Order misses the hammerer, where are our dualwielding toons?

Other than these things it is hard to judge. Zealots seem a lot harder to kill than order healers. But it might all be about gear for now (not to mention balance coming in later lvls / skills).

 

[MephTheLaw]

Wish people would shut the fuck up about roots and bws tbh, mostly it comes from tank that can't play there class.

Firstly, it's a 20 sec recast, you do get a tactic at 30+ that knocks it down to 5 sec but it's a waste of a tactic. Majority of the time they root never lands and it go’s to cool down, the other times it gets purged. Majority of DPS that you need to root have free insta purge anyway. And don't forget stupid ass players breaking root while you're on low hp.

Tanks also have anytime speed decrease and then tanks such as black orcs have -75% armour debuff too, BWs also have the worst defence in game. So you’re literally free rps if soloing a heavy tank / dps or soloing a scenario with out a decent healer dedicated to you. Anytime a Witch Elf pops me solo and I see it I’m already 75% dead. So you can’t say a warrior’s op because he grouped with a di bot, grouping doesn’t make a class op, the group / players do. And marauders are way more op then any BW or Sorc.

Also about sorcs, I was in a T3 scenario yesterday with a couple set up players on support and tank and I delt 190k in Doomfist. There was a sorc that dealt 185k and I didn’t even notice him, so BWs can’t be much oper then the other dps casters …

 

[Iorlas]

Wish people would shut the fuck up about roots and bws tbh, mostly it comes from tank that can't play there class.

Firstly, it's a 20 sec recast, you do get a tactic at 30+ that knocks it down to 5 sec but it's a waste of a tactic. Majority of the time they root never lands and it go’s to cool down, the other times it gets purged. Majority of DPS that you need to root have free insta purge anyway. And don't forget stupid ass players breaking root while you're on low hp.

Tanks also have anytime speed decrease and then tanks such as black orcs have -75% armour debuff too, BWs also have the worst defence in game. So you’re literally free rps if soloing a heavy tank / dps or soloing a scenario with out a decent healer dedicated to you. Anytime a Witch Elf pops me solo and I see it I’m already 75% dead. So you can’t say a warrior’s op because he grouped with a di bot, grouping doesn’t make a class op, the group / players do. And marauders are way more op then any BW or Sorc.

Also about sorcs, I was in a T3 scenario yesterday with a couple set up players on support and tank and I delt 190k in Doomfist. There was a sorc that dealt 185k and I didn’t even notice him, so BWs can’t be much oper then the other dps casters …

i wish you would shut the fuck up spouting bollox and comming here and spoiling a fairly reasonable disscussion.It has fuck all to do with learning to play.20 sec recast and juggernaught is 60sec recast work it out for yourself einstien..you have no idea what your talking about so please go troll somewhere else... thanks.

 

[Pandemic]

Apparently resists are broken: Resist Mechanics: Why BWs seem OP - Warhammer Forums

so BWs are hitting a lot more than they should (as well as other magic classes). Research apparently done by a BW, interesting reading.

Yeah I also researched this during the CB and informed the devs, didnt get any feedback on it though, so i wasnt sure if it was a bug or not,

Having your extra damage from magical crits bypassing both resistance and toughness mitigation (and morale abilities used to not sure if this is still the case) is a ok normally however the problem is because you can preload to a 100% and effectively almost constantly crit for high damage on top of this.

This should not happen I think, but its also easily possible for a rank 40 classes like the chosen especially to get vey high mitigation so simply allowing it would nerf bw and sorc damage far too much and render the classes unplayable. Not sure on the solution to this

 

[MephTheLaw]

:lol:

i wish you would shut the fuck up spouting bollox and comming here and spoiling a fairly reasonable disscussion.It has fuck all to do with learning to play.20 sec recast and juggernaught is 60sec recast work it out for yourself einstien..you have no idea what your talking about so please go troll somewhere else... thanks.

lol location "Cornwall" So what part you from? Helston

Any who I've actually played enough decent group RvR to know what I’m talking about, 10 secs is all a dps class needs to muller down a bright wizard with no heals. That’s with out a 40-50% 400 self damage off a combustion spell.

And it has everything to do with learning how to play, if a black orc or chosen dies to a BW with no heals, he's retarded.

Oh and before you mouth off more I've soloed plenty, even zealots

 

[Iorlas]

:lol:lol location "Cornwall" So what part you from? Helston

Any who I've actually played enough decent group RvR to know what I’m talking about, 10 secs is all a dps class needs to muller down a bright wizard with no heals. That’s with out a 40-50% 400 self damage off a combustion spell.

And it has everything to do with learning how to play, if a black orc or chosen dies to a BW with no heals, he's retarded.

Oh and before you mouth off more I've soloed plenty, even zealots

do shut up ..you obviously live in cloud cookooland and don't have the slightest idea what your talking about.Now as for my heritage i fail to see what that has to do with the thread.In answer ..no i don't come from Helston though it is like ALL of Cornwall a beautifull place.You seem to think you know it all and come across as very aggressive you have no idea how good or bad i play so until the time comes when you have first hand experiance just go troll somewhere else i tire of your irksome nature....begone scum:kissit:

 

[Muylaetrix]

Apparently resists are broken: Resist Mechanics: Why BWs seem OP - Warhammer Forums

so BWs are hitting a lot more than they should (as well as other magic classes). Research apparently done by a BW, interesting reading.

wrong i think.

it displays the damage migated on the original cast, before crits are calculated.

you hit for 300 (100 migated)
you critically hit for 450 (100 migated) (50 % crit)
you critically hit for 750 (100 migated) (150% crit)

it`s just the way it is displayed that different from daoc.

daoc would have something like :

you hit for 300 (-100)
you hit for 300 (-100) you critically hit for 150 extra
you hit for 300 (-100) you critically hit for 300 extra.

resist are calculated in, it just displays in a confusing way.

 

[MephTheLaw]

do shut up ..you obviously live in cloud cookooland and don't have the slightest idea what your talking about.Now as for my heritage i fail to see what that has to do with the thread.In answer ..no i don't come from Helston though it is like ALL of Cornwall a beautifull place.You seem to think you know it all and come across as very aggressive you have no idea how good or bad i play so until the time comes when you have first hand experiance just go troll somewhere else i tire of your irksome nature....begone scum:kissit:

I better take a lesion in disabled to understand that, but "K MATE" until you can come up with a reason i.e. facts like I did. With out spewing ballshit everywhere and insults.

 

[Iorlas]

I better take a lesion in disabled to understand that, but "K MATE" until you can come up with a reason i.e. facts like I did. With out spewing ballshit everywhere and insults.

you what?a lesson in disabled whats that supposed to mean?the fact that i'm disabled has nothing at all to do with my abilaty to bash a few fucking buttons,i suggest before you go bandying the word about you get some fuking idea of what it means...fuk you

 

[MephTheLaw]

you what?a lesson in disabled whats that supposed to mean?the fact that i'm disabled has nothing at all to do with my abilaty to bash a few fucking buttons,i suggest before you go bandying the word about you get some fuking idea of what it means...fuk you

You got a flithy mouth on you mate, I suggest you go to bed and cool down

Swearing and abuse won't win an arguement or think you're anything other then retarded, prehaps you should see my post to understand what I'm saying.

Less pot? :lol:

 

[Iorlas]

You got a flithy mouth on you mate, I suggest you go to bed and cool down

Swearing and abuse won't win an arguement or think you're anything other then retarded, prehaps you should see my post to understand what I'm saying.

Less pot? :lol:

fuck off

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I smell bans ;-).

 

[Jalanteriel]

Majority of DPS that you need to root have free insta purge anyway.

Maybe, but there's no immunity timer, so they can get chain rooted.

Tanks also have anytime speed decrease

Nope. Playing a SM and at my current rank of 28, we do not get any anytime snares. It's actually requires improved balance to use, which is our second followup attack in case you didn't know.

BWs also have the worst defence in game.

It's a trade off. High damage for low defence. You can't have it both ways. They are pretty much glass cannons, but they are meant to be that.

 

[Soazak]

I smell bans ;-).

I hope they dont, watching Meph and Iorlas argue is pure comedy, it's nearly on par with Jeremy Kyle.

 

[MephTheLaw]

Maybe, but there's no immunity timer, so they can get chain rooted.




Nope. Playing a SM and at my current rank of 28, we do not get any anytime snares. It's actually requires improved balance to use, which is our second followup attack in case you didn't know.



It's a trade off. High damage for low defence. You can't have it both ways. They are pretty much glass cannons, but they are meant to be that.

Oh noes, one tank has it as a follow up ...

 

[Whisperess]

It has fuck all to do with learning to play.20 sec recast and juggernaught is 60sec recast work it out for yourself einstien..

Unstoppable Juggernaut - Abilities - Warhammer Online

Might want to use it if you find 60s too much.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Doesn't matter much when they can melee you down with sheer damage output anyway. But I would hope the picture is the same for the Witch Hunter.

WE's are properly the only class I "fear" as such - all others I seem to have a decent chance surviving against, at least to either get away or get them damaged enough for my team finishing them, but WEs just eat through me and my team mates at high speed.
I will indeed hope the output is the same for the Witch Hunter though.

Yeah i does seem like they do superior damage to the WH though. Also the DoT is damned if you do damned if you dont heh. My "fun" char is a WH and just got L20 on him.

I tried out a WE to L10 or so, and pound for pound it seems to hit significantly hard - on the order of 30% ish which is significant. I don't know if that's just luck on the people i was hitting or overall - i suppose one way would be to hit the exact same mob on both my WH and my WE (when they are the same level) 100 times both styled and unstyled and average out the values, but i'm not that dedicated.

The one thing that really, really bugs me at the moment is the DoK group snare buff - as it works on any hit - ranged, melee, debuff etc. Right now any set group would have to be crazy not to run a DoK since it goes off about 1/3 hits seemingly (which apparently includes DoT ticks).

 

[Reno]

I don't know if that's just luck on the people i was hitting or overall - i suppose one way would be to hit the exact same mob on both my WH and my WE (when they are the same level) 100 times both styled and unstyled and average out the values, but i'm not that dedicated.

You don't have to average anything, just 1 hit with each ability or attack is enough.
Every single attack or ability hits for the exact same amount every time and crits for the same amount ( that's before mitigation and vs a same lvl mob).Only things like combustion, grudge and the like can make you do different hits from 1 ability use to the next.

Danita