Could 1FG Stealthers beat 1FG Conventional?

[Adari]

blah

lol, no.

 

[[Overlord]-Armara]

Minstrel dont have group purge [/QUOTE


Any good grp on excal already used groupstealth?..... ive seen some funny shit happening with it

 

[Herjulf]

There are several factors speaking against these tactics working.

1. Guard
2. Body Guard
3. Grapple
4. Insta heals
5. Crowdcontrol

The most likely best tactics is setting up HIT squads.

Hitting a single target then dissapearing, for example hitting a healer/caster with a cascade of arrows then sprinting off and stealthing.

Kinda like the zephyr use lately where hunters/rangers/scouts try to zephyr away ppl in fg´s, just for the fun of it.
The key is suprise which should give the snipers the time needed for a getaway.

Also a important thing is scattering, so stealth isnt prohibited by those nasty boltrange amnesias.

 

[ruudoniac]

lets c what casualties a medium rr mid tank grp will have if they get jumped by fg stealthers...

i bet only shamman will get killed p

2-3 scouts assist on shaman then bye bye end reg .. buffs are from bbs as usual so ...

then lets say that 3 infils assists on pac healer - and at the same time mincer mezz teh grp so healer will have no support ..

but still .. i dont think that 3 infils are capable for killing a healer easy .. shapeshift and 2 instand heals can save teh healors ass.. but lets say they manage to kill him ..

in this time grp is unmezzed (tanks have det, 1 healer purge and demezz teh other or both purge)!

2nd healer use pr on shamie 3rd healer use pr on 1st healer - infils are dead by 3 savages/zerkers in 2 secs

scouts cant kill shit cuz there are 3 healers healing and skald powning em

and at the end we ll have a minstrel using sos to run at atk ..

so stick to stealth vs stealth battles or kill some poor casters(dont ever jump to a darkness sm rr4+ though u ll get powned)
and stop dreaming of killing a normal grp

 

[[e]]

in NF (bye bye grp purge), assuming every member of the team has tweeked their chars to ToA-optimal.
7 scouts, 1 minstel or maybe 6 scouts and 2 minstels can and should always win in fg vs fg fights.

Tactic can be something like this:
Minstel areamezz grp, stun healer1, zephur healer 2.
scouts (have to act fast): instant kill mezzer (even before/at the same time areamezz lands), 2,5 sec later instant kill stunned healer, 2,5 sec later instant kill zephur healer.
In the timeframe of 10 sec, mezzer and both healers are dead, the fight is 5 vs 8. No grps has healers, and who ever the enemy assist train targets, 2-3 scouts are free to fire away. The scout with aggro just does PS and sends a target on zephur ride, for other archers to kill. Not to mention, slam, shield trip etc etc.

anyway, the point is, on every scout attack one enemy dies. 6-7 x scout dmg = instant kill, espec with a good minstel setting up the targets.

there is no reason why this can't be done. With the advantage of stealth, good dmg output/range, stun, zephur, phaseshift = wtfpawn.

Btw:
Bodyguard, don't work vs ranged.
Guarded caster will be killed easy: 2 scouts go rapidfire the rest normal = too many attacks to block and many will go right through the guard. Caster dead in 3-4 arrows. Assuming 7 ppl fire in sync....well you can imagine it wont take much time. And with IP + shield +other tools a scout can stay alive long enough... it's all about timeing and most important, teamwork.

dont worry, I will prove this with a few friends, then you can all start to QQ and whine whine untill they nerf us to hell

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

imo, they can. 7 scouts, 1 minstel (rr5 +ML10 +good teamplay and tactic) can kill any non-stealh grp. (some easier then others)

- this is exatly the kind of thing i would love to do, instead of the "leet" lets go solo/duo and be zerged by 4-5 sb:s crap.

it's more SBish now adays to go in trio so we can at least kill one or two of the FG alb stealthers that constantly radar around lately ^^

edit: that means killing 1 or 2 ppl in the grp, not killing 1 or 2 groups ^^

 

[Jox]

Why not make it 2 fg's of stealthers? just to bu sure :>

----------O---O---------- mmg/amg
-x----------------------x-
---x------------------x---
-x---------yyy----------x-
---x-------yyy--------x---
-x----------------------x-

x = hunters(rr 5+ with bc 32)
y = shadowblades(rr 5+ and at least one with mezz-poison)

All attack at the same time(using ventilo ofc).

I doubt any fg would survive this.

 

[[e]]

it's more SBish now adays to go in trio so we can at least kill one or two of the FG alb stealthers that constantly radar around lately ^^

edit: that means killing 1 or 2 ppl in the grp, not killing 1 or 2 groups ^^

you know that a "trio" is three (3) ppl right ? If we agree on this, I would love to see you in trios, would be a great improvement from how you guys travel atm.
Saturday, 23:xx CET, i did a TS at mmg/emain. Counted 20(!?) mid stealthers, and got zerged several times by 6-8 of you gimps during the evening. Think this is insane tbh, with those numbers you could so easy kill the occasional fg albs/hibs passing, but you guys didnt do crap except zerg solo-duos trying to pass. Imo, lame - but ultimately your choice.

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

you know that a "trio" is three (3) ppl right ? If we agree on this, I would love to see you in trios, would be a great improvement from how you guys travel atm.
Saturday, 23:xx CET, i did a TS at mmg/emain. Counted 20(!?) mid stealthers, and got zerged several times by 6-8 of you gimps during the evening. Think this is insane tbh, with those numbers you could so easy kill the occasional fg albs/hibs passing, but you guys didnt do crap except zerg solo-duos trying to pass. Imo, lame - but ultimately your choice.

cough, ive been constantly pwned by FG albs with my solo/duo/trio groups lately, i cant speak for every SB but i see mostly trios leaving mpk, if 2 trio's happen to be at amg around the same time its becos they get ported at the same time to emain and buffing up 3 peeps take about that long time so in the end its your endless mmg camping that brings up the stealthzerg u dumbass

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

nice plan Jox

 

[UriZeN]

Minstrel dont have group purge

sos=speed 5 and purge no?

 

[Snakester]

sos=speed 5 and purge no?

ehehe, when NF comes out u will see , when all realms get sos and bof, u will see it isn't the iwin button's u think it is. yeah sos away, but if u have had any cc cast on u , when that sos runs out you are standing there in the middle of nowhere , mezzed/rooted/stunned , and if your purge is down 9/10 u are dead.

 

[Zvixx]

post motem tryed to take NP out once with a fg once, we got Zzang only tho

 

[Lethul]

sos=speed 5 and purge no?

sos = unbreakable speed 5, but purge.. no its not, you can move but if you are mezzed you cant make any actions. just move

 

[Dorin]

ehehe, when NF comes out u will see , when all realms get sos and bof, u will see it isn't the iwin button's u think it is. yeah sos away, but if u have had any cc cast on u , when that sos runs out you are standing there in the middle of nowhere , mezzed/rooted/stunned , and if your purge is down 9/10 u are dead.

sos nerfed in NF though, u can cast only heals or it cancels... :|

 

[Aybabtu]

Afaik there is a fg of stealthers that kills a group or more in the movie Skillout by Quiver (or whats her name), it's that ranger from the us who made DAOCWTF afaik....

 

[Asha]

eh we beat more than 8 stealthers several times before, but dunno if they were grouped or working together - it sure seemed like they were as usually stealthers won't attack a fg with healers etc

basically if the fg is even half awake the stealthers stand no chance. They will be CC'ed, the healers might be surprised but some insta and spread heals cures that fast, then of course the normal group can rez, has end regen usually. Vs. hibs they would be dead or petted (no chance to restealth). vs albs they would have theurg pets on them pretty quickly, vs mids they would be insta cc'ed to death

 

[Asha]

sos = unbreakable speed 5, but purge.. no its not, you can move but if you are mezzed you cant make any actions. just move

you can cast insta heals, or could before TOA don't know if they fixed it

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

Why not make it 2 fg's of stealthers? just to bu sure :>

----------O---O---------- mmg/amg
-x----------------------x-
---x------------------x---
-x---------yyy----------x-
---x-------yyy--------x---
-x----------------------x-

x = hunters(rr 5+ with bc 32)
y = shadowblades(rr 5+ and at least one with mezz-poison)

All attack at the same time(using ventilo ofc).

I doubt any fg would survive this.

yay ! jox style... if u can't win.... outnumber them

 

[ruudoniac]

Tactic can be something like this:
Minstel areamezz grp, stun healer1, zephur healer 2.

Have u even seen minstrel land a mezz in tank grp ? Its funny tbh -
it goes like this ... minstrel mezz .. 1sec after .. minstrel dead
det5 + resists >>>>>>>>> minstrels mezz
and as for mezzing seers ... CB powns
so healers are free to heal even if scouts assist is a bit hard to kill all healers before tanks start hitting teh scouts

anyway the only way for a stealther grp to win a normal grp is if the normal grp members are sleeping and react tooo slowwwwww ..
even if they find out whats going on after 2 grp members are dead they still can kill stealthers eazy

 

[Marczje]

and what if the druid goes moc + rp + chain spreadheals?

 

[Killrake]

Do it at a milegate with a heavy mendspecced seer inside room with fop for spreadheals

 

[Bonehead]

About topic:

Is it likly a FG stealthers can kill a 'normal' fg? No
Is it possible? Yes

 

[Z^^]

bonehead can kill a fg stealthers tho

 

[Asha]

z wtf happened to your avatar

 

[[e]]

Have u even seen minstrel land a mezz in tank grp ?

yes I have. It wont last long, but it's not meant to last either. All the minst has to do is disable healer 1 and 2 for 9-10 sec so scouts can kill them. This is done with FZ and a stun. Minstel wont die btw...you know the ML9 ability PS combined with SoM and IP = live long enough (i doubt they will chase minstel around and let the scouts stand unattended for very long). Besides every 2,5 - 3 sec somebody will die or come VERY close. With healers gone and 5 vs 8 the stealh grp should win. Ofc, complications can occur, this is hard but far from impossible, like most ppl think. Taken off-guard, the non-stealh grp has to be high RR and pretty damn good to survive an ambush like this.

in anycase, I would love to see a fight like this, even more to parttake...

 

[Asha]

if a fg lets a mincer cast aoe mez on them, they deserve to die

 

[Danya]

Hard to land minstrel mez on a whole group.

First if anyone is looking at the minstrel when they start cast = dead minstrel - 5s base cast on mez, vs a healer or bard you get single insta, vs caster you get nuked or stunned. Most casters have high dex and TOAed cast speeds so there's no way you're going to beat something like hib baseline stun with it's 2.5s base cast time.

Second the radius is only 250, which is much smaller than main mezzers (healer/bard are 350, sorc is 400), so it's hard to get the whole group with one mez, if you miss a healer, you're dead.

Third resists - if one of the healers resists the mez, you're dead.

Fourth purge, not much needs to be said about this.

Fifth Nearsight - better hope no one has it, it's very long range and very fast cast.

So yes, assuming you land a mez, and it hits the whole group, and the minstrel can stun / zephyr the healers in time, you can maybe kill a FG.

 

[[e]]

if a fg lets a mincer cast aoe mez on them, they deserve to die

cast from stealth, in the right angle...well it's hard to see unless you have radar and see the sec the minstel drops stealh....
and assuming there is a good strategical position for both minstel and scouts..the first thing that will catch grps attention is mezzer dying...then millisec after comes AOE mezz from another loc...and the game is on.

with a good setup of ppl, even the mighty BF grp would get fucked...

 

[Danya]

[e], last sentence of your post really sucks. I'm glad you're an alb, the thought of playing with someone who'd post that sort of crap is nauseating.

BTW, to actually land a mez the minstrel is going to have to be in front of the group (=dead), unless they're standing still - in which case people tend to pan a lot (=dead). Trying to hit a speed5 group from behind with minstrel mez is just going to get you a "target is out of range" message.