Corporal Punishment

[Ned]

Hello,

Getting a bit drunk and not playing any games atm so thought I would see what you all think of corporal punishment.

Personally, I would be totally for it.

1. It would relieve the current prison population.

2. Save tax-payers money on these 'prisons'

3. Make 'Gangsters' think before they act.

4. Effectively lower crime rate across the country.

I would vote in an instant for any politician who had the balls to bring this kind of crime deterrant into operation.
To reference another thread 'Cowards' - which is exactly what they are..I feel that this type of behavior is commonplace nowadays, and these kids know exactly how far they can push the law.
They do not fear reprisal and that comes as no surprise, as it can take more than 30 prosecutions in some cases in order for them to be jailed. (74 is the most I have known in junior cases)
If in fact they do receive prison as a punishment, they are locked up with 3 square meals a day and only their TV's, expensive gyms and playstations for recreation...
You can't counsel these people into going straight...It's a waste of time!
It's unbelievable that all this expense on rehab, counselling and education is wasted on these tits.

I would like to see these folk FLOGGED in public..Let the community see the scum that burgled them receive the punishment they justly deserve..Let the family of the granny that was viciously mugged for £20 see the faces of those who robbed her receive a lash or two..

I know I will get heat for this, but we need to see a change..

Angry Ned :lol:

 

[Access Denied]

Couldn't agree more. Repped.

 

[Ctuchik]

1. It would relieve the current prison population.

no it wouldn't, just look at the states in the US that allow it. their prisons is overflooded with more death row prisoners then normal ones because they keep fighting the scentance.

its more then possible to die of old age in a US prison as a death row convict.

its quite a few cases there that have convicts waiting for their turn for ~15 years.

and then what, u gonna deny them the chance to fight the death scentance? what if he/she were wrongly accused? those things DO happen you know.

/edit: as for everything else u pointed on, nothing of it would actually help any of it, it would probably end up costing alot more in the end, and it also doesent lower the crime rates (see the states in US).

 

[Mey]

Ironically it costs more to sentence someone to the death penalty than it does to keep them in prison for life.

 

[Mey]

I imagine a similar case would be the same for corporal punishment with the inveitable legal cases for appeals and so on. I also assume that you would be in favour of the death penalty, so I'll give you this quote to think on.

"Where disablement+ enters as an element into penal theories*, it occupies, as a rule, a subordinate place and is looked upon as an object subsidary to some other end which is regarded as paramount" Heinrich Oppenheimer, the rationale of punishment (London University Press, 1913)

+meaning punishments which have permenacy, i.e pyschosurgery, capitial punishment etc..
*meaning theories regarding punishment.

The fact that you want to use it (Corporal punishment) as a deterence destroys the proper functioning of a judicial process, if detterence is the end it is unimportant whether an individual has committed a crime because the punishment is there purely to re-educate and sway those who may have commite such crimes from a "similar" path. In this sense you aren't punishing the crime because it is bad, you are punishing it to stop people from acting in a similar way. Thats not justice, thats madness.

 

[Mey]

If in fact they do receive prison as a punishment, they are locked up with 3 square meals a day and only their TV's, expensive gyms and playstations for recreation

Have you actually seen a real prison? Or have you just visited "The Daily Star / Sun's" wonderful magical view of the prison system?

The prisons in the UK are shit, cells designed for 1 person are holding in some cases upto 3 people.

 

[sayward]

Am I missing something are we talking about capital or corporal punishment? I always wanted to bring capital punishment into schools, that would sort it all!!!

 

[Bugz]

Have you actually seen a real prison? Or have you just visited "The Daily Star / Sun's" wonderful magical view of the prison system?

The prisons in the UK are shit, cells designed for 1 person are holding in some cases upto 3 people.

The conditions aren't as squalid as you describe!

Overcrowded? Yes. Lacking fuctionability? No. Is functionability a word? No. Should it be? Almost certainly.

 

[Mey]

Bugz, if a prison is overcrowded they rarely get let of their cells, there simply isn't enough prison wardens to let them out for more than an hour a day.

Ned started with talking about Corporal punishment (inflicting pain) but the way he argued it was as if he was talking about Capital punishment (death penalty). [well in half drunken opinion anyway].

 

[Zenith]

Wether this is the place for my post or not, Im eager enough to post it.

I too have opinions regarding juridical decisions and prison, mostly from visiting prisons and knowledge about the juridical system in Sweden, where the sentances are quite unbalanced and awkward and the prisons actually work as a form of hotells..


However, I think making the punishment for crime harder or more severe, trying to lower the crime rates, is the wrong way to attack the problem. Much much much more thought and resources needs to be used to actually discover why the crime is done in the first time. I think ( hope ) everyone agrees noone is born evil or bad. The source of a crime and a criminal is in the society, for example poverty or social structure. It is much more sustainable to attack the root of the problem rather than dealing with the outcome.

 

[Ned]

Have I seen a prison lately?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...n-suite-cells-and-flatscreen-televisions.html

Or.. Inmate boasts of 'luxury' life in prison - Telegraph

Check it out..

And how much does it cost to flog a person?
Weigh this against against how much it costs to keep a prisoner in jail for a few months/years..especially with sky, flatscreen tv's and the like..

But..if you're happy to see murderers and rapists live like kings, then you are quite welcome to your opinion..

I would be happy to hear your opinion on those who mug pensioners, or perhaps abduct and rape your children, or even rob you and beat you in front of your loved ones..

Would you be happy to know that they are playing pool while you are in mourning?

Do you think they can be rehabilitated?

I know that the judicial system can make mistakes..However, these days with the level of forensic science we have, it is hard to make these mistakes, and where there is no shadow of doubt, these criminals should feel the full force of the law, which IMO should be harsh.

 

[Ned]

no it wouldn't, just look at the states in the US that allow it. their prisons is overflooded with more death row prisoners then normal ones because they keep fighting the scentance.

its more then possible to die of old age in a US prison as a death row convict.

its quite a few cases there that have convicts waiting for their turn for ~15 years.

and then what, u gonna deny them the chance to fight the death scentance? what if he/she were wrongly accused? those things DO happen you know.

/edit: as for everything else u pointed on, nothing of it would actually help any of it, it would probably end up costing alot more in the end, and it also doesent lower the crime rates (see the states in US).

How the fuck do you come to the conclusion that a flogged prisoner costs less to punish than a sentence?

It costs more to flog the fool than to house him in a single cell with his sky and playstation for years?

If you have enough evidence to flog a man, then flog him and be done..And for all you humanitarians out there, prison does not make a blind bit of difference.

Think about it..How many of these nuggets re-offend?

If you committed a crime..Would you be more deterred by being flogged in your high street? or doing community service.. Picking up a bit of litter and that?


And finally, for all your humanitarian quotes, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference..You think the guy that wrote it had his kids killed?

I bet not.

 

[Mey]

So in answer to my question, no you haven't seen a prison.

I do think we can rehabilitate but I also think we cannot do it with the current prison service, nor with corporal punishment.

I think quite lowly of people who commit crime, it doesn't mean I wish to inflict physical pain upon them in some barbaric show of strength.

You do realise by the way that the main aim of the prison service has been and probably always will be protection of the public?

 

[Mey]

If you committed a crime..Would you be more deterred by being flogged in your high street? or doing community service.. Picking up a bit of litter and that?


And finally, for all your humanitarian quotes, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference..You think the guy that wrote it had his kids killed?

I bet not.

It's obvious that you are unable to set aside strong emotions to argue in a coherent manner, quite frankly I do not want to argue with someone who has no clue about the Prison service or the law in the UK.

Tabloid papers don't equal fact. Visit a prison, i'm sure you will be quite shocked at how different they are to what the sun tells you.

 

[Ned]

So in answer to my question, no you haven't seen a prison.

I do think we can rehabilitate but I also think we cannot do it with the current prison service, nor with corporal punishment.

I think quite lowly of people who commit crime, it doesn't mean I wish to inflict physical pain upon them in some barbaric show of strength.

You do realise by the way that the main aim of the prison service has been and probably always will be protection of the public?

In answer to your question YES, I have in fact been inside a prison, and the prison is NOT for the protection of the public, but for the confinement of criminals.. The Police are there for the protection of the public..

And, I do not wish to inflict pain as a show of strength, but as a deterrant to committing barbaric crimes against the innocent public.
I wish everyone to be safe in their homes and on the street, and not have to worry about getting mugged/robbed attacked for no reason.

 

[Mey]

Ned I honestly don't know how to say this nicely so, your fucking wrong shut the fuck up.

In answer to your question YES, I have in fact been inside a prison, and the prison is NOT for the protection of the public, but for the confinement of criminals.. The Police are there for the protection of the public..

Wrong. Taken from the prison service statement of purpose (from the horses mouth as it were).

"Objectives

To protect the public and provide what commissioners want to purchase by:

* Holding prisoners securely
* Reducing the risk of prisoners re-offending
* Providing safe and well-ordered establishments in which we treat prisoners humanely, decently and lawfully."

And what is a deterrent if it is not a show strength? You are showing someone that you have the power to control their actions and their life. You want to show this physically.

 

[Ned]

It's obvious that you are unable to set aside strong emotions to argue in a coherent manner, quite frankly I do not want to argue with someone who has no clue about the Prison service or the law in the UK.

Tabloid papers don't equal fact. Visit a prison, i'm sure you will be quite shocked at how different they are to what the sun tells you.

Well, the fact is.. I feel strongly about this topic, and of course my emotions will affect my opinion.. I have been a victim of crime and also witnessed the after effects of it.

If you have not, then lucky you..And I do have a clue about the prison service..()
I know exactly what happens in prisons these days and this is exactly why I started this topic..My opinions aren't based on tabloids but from first hand experience.
And I cannot argue in a coherent manner?

My god, I do not wish anything bad to happen to you, but should it ever happen, I hope you remain as indifferent and flippant as you seem now..It will save you a lot of heartache.

 

[Mey]

I was mugged last year at the bottom of the road I live on, my next door neighbour's house got rushed and he was pinned against the wall with a knife. My brother was mugged 4 doors down from his house in manchester by a gang of 10 lads. My house mate was mugged and left unconcious on the floor, a guy I go rock climbing with was held up in Forrest Fields in Nottingham by a group of 5 lads who made him get on his knees then pistol whipped him.

I know full well the impact of crime. I've studied Criminology for two years now, penology and sentencing has been a major part in this. I am in the process of joining the police force and have many friends who are already officers. My friend is a probation officer and my mates Dad a prison warden.

I talk crime everyday of the week and discuss ways to deal with it, you say this topic is passionate to you, if you cared so much you would educate yourself and stop arguing like some council estate bnp dolite.

 

[Ned]

Ned I honestly don't know how to say this nicely so, your fucking wrong shut the fuck up.



Wrong. Taken from the prison service statement of purpose (from the horses mouth as it were).

"Objectives

To protect the public and provide what commissioners want to purchase by:

* Holding prisoners securely
* Reducing the risk of prisoners re-offending
* Providing safe and well-ordered establishments in which we treat prisoners humanely, decently and lawfully."

And what is a deterrent if it is not a show strength? You are showing someone that you have the power to control their actions and their life. You want to show this physically.

LOL, I bet you would not say this to my face..

Anyway..Prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ned]

You are training to be a policeman yet tell me I'm wrong and to shut the fuck up?

Hmm, u sure you following right career path?

 

[Mey]

You really didn't just give me a wikipedia link?

HM Prison Service - Statement of Purpose

Is the link re: what the prison service is all about, you'll also note that my source can be cited for academic purposes where as yours cannot.

 

[Ned]

Yes I did, that's why it had wikipedia in the link..

And read it..It tells you what a prison is

 

[Mey]

You are training to be a policeman yet tell me I'm wrong and to shut the fuck up?

I'm telling you to shut up to save you from looking like a dick. Sure I guess my language was slightly emotive and provactive but we are on an internet forum. Your right I wouldn't say what I did in person, i'd be much more polite about it

 

[Mey]

Yes I did, that's why it had wikipedia in the link..

And read it..It tells you what a prison is

I don't need to read a wikipedia article to tell me what a prison is, I study Criminology, I have read academic sources regarding them.

 

[Ned]

Haha, you're right you would be much more polite about it, cos I'd knock you on your arse..

You know, maybe you do deserve to get robbed..and robbed and mugged and raped..Who knows? maybe it will be the same guy you give community service to..who is back in 6 months to fuck you again.
GL in your police career, dude..fuck knows you need it

LoL, I just noticed..you aren't THE twatt from Orkney are you lol?

 

[Mey]

Haha, you're right you would be much more polite about it, cos I'd knock you on your arse..

hahah! lol.

You know, maybe you do deserve to get robbed..and robbed and mugged and raped..Who knows? maybe it will be the same guy you give community service to..who is back in 6 months to fuck you again.

I won't be giving anyone a sentence, that's got nothing to do with the role of a policeman.

Another point that made me laugh, why would he be back in 6months if he had a community sentence? Surely he'd be back straight after the trial

GL in your police career

Cheers

LoL, I just noticed..you aren't THE twatt from Orkney are you lol?

No I'm from the North West/Midlands, I just like the town name.

 

[Ned]

hahah! lol.



''I won't be giving anyone a sentence, that's got nothing to do with the role of a policeman.

Another point that made me laugh, why would he be back in 6months if he had a community sentence? Surely he'd be back straight after the trial

Maybe he just couldn't wait to see you again?''

Maybe he wanted to help you with your Penology lol..

Maybe a community sentence lasts 6 Months?

 

[Zenith]

Wow Ned, you really does come out as an idiot in this thread.

 

[Ned]

Wow Ned, you really does come out as an idiot in this thread.

Fuck it m8, It started out as an opinion then it started to get personal..So fuck you too..

If you have nothing further to contribute then fuck off.

Furthermore, if you are going to insult me then at least say it correctly.. I does come out as an idiot?

 

[Ned]

Mission Statement
Statement of Common Purpose and Values

The purpose of West Yorkshire Police is to uphold the law fairly and firmly: to prevent crime; to pursue and bring to justice those who break the law; to keep the Queen's peace; to protect, help and reassure the community: and to be seen to do all this with integrity, common sense and sound judgement.

We must be compassionate, courteous and patient, acting without fear or favour or prejudice to the rights of others. We need to be professional, calm and restrained in the face of violence and apply only that force which is necessary to accomplish our lawful duty.

We must strive to reduce the fears of the public and, so far as we can, to reflect their priorities in the action we take. We must respond to well-founded criticism with a willingness to change.

Well you failed at the first hurdle :lol: