Politics Coronavirus

[Bodhi]

It's not people disobeying that's the main source:

Covid: Data shows outbreaks in England's offices in lockdown

Under England's lockdown rules, in force since 6 January, people should work from home if they can.

www.bbc.co.uk

No, it's care homes and hospitals.

HTH.

 

[Bodhi]

View attachment 43719

This is really interesting, it states that the UK is in the EU, incorrect, but let's keep that there for now. The EC demand that doses from the UK plants be directed to EU. AZ says it cannot. Now, reading that, if AZ cannot deliver then the EC can offer alternative plants in the EU to fix the shortfall. I am wondering if the comment Pascal made the other day about UK plants being used once UK doses have been delivered is in the AZ-UK contract. Will keep reading.

Going to get interesting over the next few hours/days.

Prefer this version:


View: https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1355121097939841025?s=20

 

[Moriath]

Parenting during lockdown is exhausting, says Kate

The Duchess of Cambridge spoke about home schooling her children during a call with other parents.

www.bbc.co.uk

Oh do fuck off, jesus.

Do they really think that they are helping? Some people are so divorced from the reality of normal people

 

[Deebs]

Interesting

 

[Moriath]

Interesting

View attachment 43720

From what you posted. The eu should have produced some alternate manufacturing facilities for AZ to help get up and running to avoid a short fall. Theres nothing in there to say that the EU have precedence over everyone else for their short falls being made up.
and its weird cause they havent even authorised its use yet but they are crying

 

[Deebs]

From what you posted. The eu should have produced some alternate manufacturing facilities for AZ to help get up and running to avoid a short fall. Theres nothing in there to say that the EU have precedence over everyone else for their short falls being made up.
and its weird cause they havent even authorised its use yet but they are crying

Though it mentions agreements entered into on or on behalf of the Commission.

Still got lots to read, especially the black bits.

 

[Deebs]

View attachment 43719

This is really interesting, it states that the UK is in the EU, incorrect, but let's keep that there for now. The EC demand that doses from the UK plants be directed to EU. AZ says it cannot. Now, reading that, if AZ cannot deliver then the EC can offer alternative plants in the EU to fix the shortfall. I am wondering if the comment Pascal made the other day about UK plants being used once UK doses have been delivered is in the AZ-UK contract. Will keep reading.

Going to get interesting over the next few hours/days.

In 5.4 the UK is classed as part of the EU but is only applicable inside section 5.4 and nowhere else.

However, 5.1 states that Initial doses will be from within the EU.



Think whoever signed this contract didn't have a fucking clue. Head hurts.

Then you have 13.1 talking about Initial Europe doses.

 

[Scouse]

Interesting

View attachment 43720

Basically "EU - agree something with Britain".

Now the focus is - do we act "fair" or do we act "selfish".

If we act fairly and help our 'friends' then we set an example of British magnanimity to the whole world whilst they're lazer focussed on us and our actions. (Downside for the Tories would be retards will be up in arms).

If we act unfairly and go "fuck you guys" then the whole world takes that and starts petty infighting from our example, there'll be knock-on uncooperative effects on the back of this. (Upside for the Tories is that the retards (in their own party and beyond) will be temporarily placated).

I think we'll go with 2 tbh (or something like it). There's so much "fuck the EU" emotion going on at the moment (and Boris is weak as fuck) that we'll prioritise nations rather than helping save the lives of the most vulnerable humans.

 

[Deebs]

Basically "EU - agree something with Britain".

Now the focus is - do we act "fair" or do we act "selfish".

If we act fairly and help our 'friends' then we set an example of British magnanimity to the whole world whilst they're lazer focussed on us and our actions. (Downside for the Tories would be retards will be up in arms).

If we act unfairly and go "fuck you guys" then the whole world takes that and starts petty infighting from our example, there'll be knock-on uncooperative effects on the back of this. (Upside for the Tories is that the retards (in their own party and beyond) will be temporarily placated).

I think we'll go with 2 tbh (or something like it). There's so much "fuck the EU" emotion going on at the moment (and Boris is weak as fuck) that we'll prioritise nations rather than helping save the lives of the most vulnerable humans.

Personally what should have been in ALL contracts is

1) From every yield 95% of all doses will go to the contract owners
2) From every yield the 2% of all doses will go to the poor countries, distributed by the WHO or UN
3) The remaining 3% of all doses to be distributed by the contract owner but not to their own countries

Impossible to enforce but would have been nice as it would allow the vaccine rollout to start everywhere at the same time, albiet at a different pace.

However, if we act fair it would be seen as giving in to the EU so I guess it makes it hard to sell to people. What should have happened was the EU request help (maybe they did, maybe they didn't). Like I said earlier, this is only going to get messy.

Finally, why are the EC not going after pfizer, they have dropped output, Sanofi (the "French" vaccine they pinned pretty much everything on) for delaying, and Moderna have stated that due to the EC delays for approval it will affect delivery as other nations will get priority. No matter how you look at this they fucked up.

 

[Gwadien]

Basically "EU - agree something with Britain".

Now the focus is - do we act "fair" or do we act "selfish".

If we act fairly and help our 'friends' then we set an example of British magnanimity to the whole world whilst they're lazer focussed on us and our actions. (Downside for the Tories would be retards will be up in arms).

If we act unfairly and go "fuck you guys" then the whole world takes that and starts petty infighting from our example, there'll be knock-on uncooperative effects on the back of this. (Upside for the Tories is that the retards (in their own party and beyond) will be temporarily placated).

I think we'll go with 2 tbh (or something like it). There's so much "fuck the EU" emotion going on at the moment (and Boris is weak as fuck) that we'll prioritise nations rather than helping save the lives of the most vulnerable humans.

I also think that we would be doing the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot. We left the EU so why should we share stuff made in the UK?

Also, first world problems much?

 

[Yoni]

I think that if AZ were 100% correct without fault, they would not need to bother to placate the beaurocrats to the level that they are doing with extra meetings etc..... I also think that the situation is being over sensualised by the British press a lot.....

There is an addtional question and that is that Denmark have vaccinated c.4% and the rest c.2% there are questions being asked why it is not even accross the countries. I do know that the UK will have higher numbers as they have chosen the 1 shot approach where as in Sweden for example they will follow the as intended instructions. IT is not clear which approach Denmark has taken and why?

There is a big issue that Scouse has touched on and that is that a lot of non EU countries are relying on the EU operations and should the UK decide to do the right thing then it will have a knock on affect... and those who really need it will be the ones to suffer. Sadly this will also have an effect on the relationship the UK have with the EU moving forward in terms of Brexit there is already a distinct lack of trust in europe.

@Gwadien I would be a bit careful there last year when the UK PPE issues started to raise their head I am aware of Sweden and Germany in particular diverting items to the UK ... even though France behaved terribly by confiscating masks that were manufactured specifically for Italy... so there are good things and bad things about the EU... My concern are the very poor nations in the EU who can not afford the vaccine - WHO will vaccinate 20% but what about the rest of the population... it is important that EVERYONE is vaccinated in the next 12 to 18 months.

 

[Deebs]

Looks like EMA has delayed the AZ announcement by 90 minutes. So expect the press conference around 15.30GMT

 

[Deebs]

I think that if AZ were 100% correct without fault, they would not need to bother to placate the beaurocrats to the level that they are doing with extra meetings etc..... I also think that the situation is being over sensualised by the British press a lot.....

There is an addtional question and that is that Denmark have vaccinated c.4% and the rest c.2% there are questions being asked why it is not even accross the countries. I do know that the UK will have higher numbers as they have chosen the 1 shot approach where as in Sweden for example they will follow the as intended instructions. IT is not clear which approach Denmark has taken and why?

There is a big issue that Scouse has touched on and that is that a lot of non EU countries are relying on the EU operations and should the UK decide to do the right thing then it will have a knock on affect... and those who really need it will be the ones to suffer. Sadly this will also have an effect on the relationship the UK have with the EU moving forward in terms of Brexit there is already a distinct lack of trust in europe.

@Gwadien I would be a bit careful there last year when the UK PPE issues started to raise their head I am aware of Sweden and Germany in particular diverting items to the UK ... even though France behaved terribly by confiscating masks that were manufactured specifically for Italy... so there are good things and bad things about the EU... My concern are the very poor nations in the EU who can not afford the vaccine - WHO will vaccinate 20% but what about the rest of the population... it is important that EVERYONE is vaccinated in the next 12 to 18 months.

If the EU was 100% correct then this would be in the Belgian courts already. They want the public court of opinion in their favour.

The UK is following the AZ advice for 12 weeks between shots, I am reading of people already getting the 2nd pfizer shot within the preferred window of time.

One thing is for sure, whether in the EU or out, countries will fight amongst themselves and this pandemic has shown this as true. I am just waiting for the distribution allocation infighting to begin, whether here in the UK or in the EU. It will happen.

As for poor nations there is the COVAC project but not sure what countries will benefit from that.

 

[Ctuchik]

I'm not particularly surprised that UK does this. Them doing whatever they please no matter the cost are kind of their thing.

 

[Raven]

Basically "EU - agree something with Britain".

Now the focus is - do we act "fair" or do we act "selfish".

But. Why should we suffer when we got the ball rolling months ago and the EU dragged their feet, endlessly....and before the EU decided to start interfering, had countries getting things setting up anyway, the EU stepped in, took control and fucked it all up horribly.

What should we be expected to do? We can offer advice and services in helping them get the infrastructure up to speed, that they should have bottomed out months ago, fine, but we aren't in the EU any more, so why exactly do the EU expect us to essentially bail them out of their fuck up? That's what it is, nothing to do with an unequal starting point, or any sort of advantage, just straight up incompetence.

I know, humanitarian reasons etc, but again, why would we essentially increase our number of deaths through lack of vaccination? We would just be shifting the deaths from there to here, that is just not on. We can't be expected to share death rate, especially when the death/case numbers would suggest we need to vaccinate much more urgently than them.

 

[Deebs]

I'm not particularly surprised that UK does this. Them doing whatever they please no matter the cost are kind of their thing.

What exactly is the UK doing? You do realise this is an issue between AZ and the EC. AZ is a company and not the UK.

 

[Yoni]

If the EU was 100% correct then this would be in the Belgian courts already. They want the public court of opinion in their favour.

The UK is following the AZ advice for 12 weeks between shots, I am reading of people already getting the 2nd pfizer shot within the preferred window of time.

One thing is for sure, whether in the EU or out, countries will fight amongst themselves and this pandemic has shown this as true. I am just waiting for the distribution allocation infighting to begin, whether here in the UK or in the EU. It will happen.

As for poor nations there is the COVAC project but not sure what countries will benefit from that.

As I said COVAC will only cover 20% of the population for the poorest countries that qualify.

Re the EU I do not think that this would have been so very very public if they were not sure they were due .... yes they have screwed up in many ways but there is really something funky going on here - as you said it will get messy and the reprocussions are not fun wherever you live in Europe (geography)...

 

[Scouse]

Why should we suffer ...

I know, humanitarian reasons etc, but ...

QED.

...we'll prioritise nations rather than helping save the lives of the most vulnerable humans.

If we help our friends vaccinate, say, over 60's then we don't actually increase our deaths by that much.

We can save many thousands of lives across a group of countries at the cost of tens in ours.

We won't though. Even though it's clearly the right and moral thing to do.

 

[Deebs]

As I said COVAC will only cover 20% of the population for the poorest countries that qualify.

Re the EU I do not think that this would have been so very very public if they were not sure they were due .... yes they have screwed up in many ways but there is really something funky going on here - as you said it will get messy and the reprocussions are not fun wherever you live in Europe (geography)...

COVAC may well only cover 20% but the UK and other countries have said they will donate all excess doses to poor countries after initially vaccinating their populations. Then we ramp up even more production for the ongoing vaccinations.

 

[Moriath]

If the EU was 100% correct then this would be in the Belgian courts already. They want the public court of opinion in their favour.

The UK is following the AZ advice for 12 weeks between shots, I am reading of people already getting the 2nd pfizer shot within the preferred window of time.

One thing is for sure, whether in the EU or out, countries will fight amongst themselves and this pandemic has shown this as true. I am just waiting for the distribution allocation infighting to begin, whether here in the UK or in the EU. It will happen.

As for poor nations there is the COVAC project but not sure what countries will benefit from that.

Tbh the best approach would have been the first couple to vaccines to prove effective and easy to distribute should have been rolled out to all global manufacturing plants. Rather than splitting resources once effective vaccines had been made.
instead we have lots of different places making different things and a lot of them with supply problems.

 

[Deebs]

QED.



If we help our friends vaccinate, say, over 60's then we don't actually increase our deaths by that much.

We can save many thousands of lives across a group of countries at the cost of tens in ours.

We won't though. Even though it's clearly tge right and moral thing to do.

Hang on, you are the one frothing at the mouth about how many people have died here and yet have no problem in allowing more to die to save others?

 

[Embattle]

Ultimately this is just a large game of ass covering by those EU bureaucrats in charge of the programme, governments around the world do it but the idea that somehow a failure by them is slowly ebbing towards the narrative of the UK government being to blame is wrong....the UK government is more than capable of having their own fuckups without being give unjustified ones by others.

I don't think any one would have an issue with scaling up production in the UK to help the EU, or even transferring excess vaccines over whatever the UK contract states but under no circumstances should it interfere with the UKs rollout. Other than wishy washy sentimentalism a country will always vaccinate their own people first, you know the people who elected them into government and ultimately pay the bills.

BTW isn't it COVAX not COVAC?

 

[Scouse]

@Moriath's in the "fuck em" camp.

Remember m8 - these people are just as scared as we are, and just as helpless in the face of government incompetence.

It's not european citizens fault.

 

[Scouse]

Hang on, you are the one frothing at the mouth about how many people have died here and yet have no problem in allowing more to die to save others?

Tens for tens of thousands?

Yep.

I've zero problem putting me and people like me in harms way to save human lives.

 

[Yoni]

But. Why should we suffer Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Waahhhhhhhhhhhhh

This is just horrible sorry to say but boardering on disgusting..... Whe the UK desperately needed PPV last year european countries helped the UK out... not all of them as I said but none the less the UK recieved help.... I said earlierit will get messy and the reprocussions will kill humans that are probably not retarded politicians or beaurocrats (for some reason they seem to be getting vaccinated before those who really need it... oO).

For once I agree with Scouse.... as for poor countries yes sure send them the leftovers once the whole UK population is vaccinated... in the meantime more "HUMANS" are dead....

 

[Bodhi]

Not entirely sure where the hand-wringing on this is coming from. AZ have said they will sell their vaccine at cost all over the world, and are currently in the process of scaling up worldwide to manufacture and distribute it.

Just because the EU are playing silly buggers trying to do it on the cheap and last minute, doesn't mean AZ are the bad guys here.

 

[Scouse]

as for poor countries yes sure send them the leftovers once the whole UK population is vaccinated... in the meantime more "HUMANS" are dead....

Hit the vulnerable worldwide. Never mind just Europe.

That's just a pipe dream. Look how little a shit we give about our neighbours.

 

[Deebs]

This is just horrible sorry to say but boardering on disgusting..... Whe the UK desperately needed PPV last year european countries helped the UK out... not all of them as I said but none the less the UK recieved help.... I said earlierit will get messy and the reprocussions will kill humans that are probably not retarded politicians or beaurocrats (for some reason they seem to be getting vaccinated before those who really need it... oO).

For once I agree with Scouse.... as for poor countries yes sure send them the leftovers once the whole UK population is vaccinated... in the meantime more "HUMANS" are dead....

Why single out just the UK, why not say

as for poor countries yes sure send them the leftovers once the whole UK and EU population is vaccinated

 

[Deebs]

Hit the vulnerable worldwide. Never mind just Europe.

That's just a pipe dream. Look how little a shit we give about our neighbours.

Like I said in an earlier message, this should have been in all contracts.

 

[Deebs]

BTW isn't it COVAX not COVAC?

Yes. Not sure why I said COVAC when I earlier said COVAX.