Politics Coronavirus

[Scouse]

I thought we were supposed to ignore all that political shit in a time of crisis?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

I notice @caLLous you deleted a post about stock piling tests for unknown virus. Why?

Let me remind you.

BREXIT has happened. Legally we are not part of the EU.

Let me repeat that for you in case you are still living in a dream

The UK is not part of the European Union. Unless a deal is arranged by UK LAW (yes UK law) we will leave under WTO terms at the end of the year.

In order to rejoin the EU we would have to go thru all the EU requirements. This will take years. Again, in case you don't realise, the UK is NOT part of the European Union.

We'll see how that works out won't we.

 

[Deebs]

I thought we were supposed to ignore all that political shit in a time of crisis?

We are but people are still using Brexit as an excuse and it is having a bias on their response.

Clearly you can see this. Let's set it out, BREXIT has happened. Now move on. Weep, wank, cry or whatever. It is done.

 

[Deebs]

We'll see how that works out won't we.

Indeed we will.

26 countries with over a trillion debt. France, Italy and Spain cursing the EU for being shit. Great club. keep it up. Hope you have much happiness.

 

[caLLous]

It is good news right? Sorry forgot you are the glass is half empty mentality.

Good news that he gave the impression that any essential worker can book an appointment to get tested (as you originally thought) but it is in fact only if they're showing symptoms? Or good news that they won't have to pay to get tested?!

I would've thought anybody who is symptomatic would get tested, I don't really understand the point of having to book appointments. It's good that they're pushing testing (even if his own people don't think they'll hit the 100k a day target by the end of the month) but what was there that's really new in what he announced?

As for your other point, there are several types of tests, one of them is just a sterile collection kit that gets sent to a lab for analysis. Those can be stockpiled in their millions. Yes there are better, quicker tests which you can't create unless you know what you're testing for but Malaysia had that sussed the same day South Korea sent them a sample so the recipe was there. I deleted the post because I initially thought it was just the antibody tests that were faulty and being returned (which is a completely different kind of test) but then I saw some others that were to test if you currently have it.

What any of that has got to do with Brexit is beyond me, though.

 

[Scouse]

the Swedish population are more concerned with the younger generation and believe that as a country if we go on a firm lockdown we would be sacrificing their lives and education (the younger generation) for the sake of those who are already past their expiry date - harsh I know but still relevant.

Not harsh.

Inhumane.

 

[caLLous]

Indeed we will.

26 countries with over a trillion debt. France, Italy and Spain cursing the EU for being shit. Great club. keep it up. Hope you have much happiness.

Jaysus, and you were accusing @Scouse of sounding like @Job earlier.

 

[Deebs]

Jaysus, and you were accusing @Scouse of sounding like @Job earlier.

Um so the videos of officials in Italy replacing the EU flag were made up?

 

[Moriath]

Fucking hell, seriously, I thought I gave @Job a holiday.

The Government and NHS Procurement stockpiled lots of stuff due to Brexit, much to everyones anger (yours included). Maybe not enough respirators and ventilators.

But seriously, testing kits? Fucking testing kits for an unknown virus. You fucking plank.

I did say @Scouse turned into a @Job @Gwadien hybrid. Lol.

 

[Scouse]

Come on @Bodhi. Tell us why describing the elderly as "past their expiry date" is anything other than fucking disgusting ageism.

 

[Bodhi]

I dislike this thinking completely:
Are we so dumb that we can't learn the lessons of a connected world?

We were warned, have been warned, not just "multiple times" but consistently (and ongoing - for lots of different things, but also specifically this situation). And we had sars/mers/ebola in recent memory.

It's not just "oh well we didn't know - only the South Koreans knew". We bloody knew very well indeed.

And we did nothing about it.

We also know about global warming, the ongoing extinction-level ecological disaster and the issue of plastics - and scientists are screaming to high heaven about it.

And we're doing very little about any of it.

Until we, as a species, can learn the lessons of others and listen to those who's lives are spent in the gathering of knowledge that could help all of humanity we deserve death.

Fermi's paradox applies absolutely to us. We don't make it - because we don't heed the warnings of people who know better and don't learn the obvious lessons of not even history - but ongoing disasters of the modern day.

We're the ultimate ostriches.

Plastics? You mean like the plastic based PPE you've been screaming that we don't buy enough of you mean?

 

[Bodhi]

Come on @Bodhi. Tell us why describing the elderly as "past their expiry date" is anything other than fucking disgusting ageism.

Whilst the turn of phrase Yoni used may have been unfortunate, such decisions are taken in medicine all the time. From evaluating cost of treatment vs expected remaining lifespan, to DNR orders signed by elderly people based on medical advice, where judging by the person's quality of life it would be more inhumane to resuscitate them if it came to it.

Like we did for my nan late last year, based on her GPs advice, backed by my sister, who is also a GP.

 

[Scouse]

Whilst the turn of phrase Yoni used may have been unfortunate, such decisions are taken in medicine all the time. From evaluating cost of treatment vs expected remaining lifespan, to DNR orders signed by elderly people based on medical advice, where judging by the person's quality of life it would be more inhumane to resuscitate them if it came to it.

Like we did for my nan late last year, based on her GPs advice, backed by my sister, who is also a GP.

That's a completely different situation. We've all been through that, you're not special.

This is the consignment of the otherwise healthy elderly to the "past it" "can die" scrapheap so the young can go out and suit themselves.

It's "look nan, we'll likely be making the decision to pull the plug on you in the next fifteen or twenty years anyway - so do us a favour and fuck off so me and the kids can go the pub".

You know that - that's the exact argument. It's not "harsh" - it's fucking disgraceful.

 

[Yoni]

My dad wasn’t even that old and after his stroke he just wanted to be home and live out the rest of his life there - and when the fits started he was begging us to take him to Geneva:/.

Sorry if you didn’t like the tone of phrase but at the end of all of this I also want to know how many died over and above a 10 year average NOT accounted for as a CV19 death - only then can the strategies of governments be assessed as to whether their chosen course of action was effective.

 

[Yoni]

That's a completely different situation. We've all been through that, you're not special.

This is the consignment of the otherwise healthy elderly to the "past it" "can die" scrapheap so the young can go out and suit themselves.

It's "look nan, we'll likely be making the decision to pull the plug on you in the next fifteen or twenty years anyway - so do us a favour and fuck off so me and the kids can go the pub".

You know that - that's the exact argument. It's not "harsh" - it's fucking disgraceful.

No it’s not - it is looking at a bigger picture than just today or next week.

seriously why are you not on the forums telling everybody to sacrifice half their salaries to help with the 24k deaths from hunger or the number of TB or dysentery deaths?

why because now there is a disease which also kills white rich people - this is the only reason it appears that you are ranting

 

[Bodhi]

That's a completely different situation. We've all been through that, you're not special.

This is the consignment of the otherwise healthy elderly to the "past it" "can die" scrapheap so the young can go out and suit themselves.

It's "look nan, we'll likely be making the decision to pull the plug on you in the next fifteen or twenty years anyway - so do us a favour and fuck off so me and the kids can go the pub".

You know that - that's the exact argument. It's not "harsh" - it's fucking disgraceful.

No, the Swedish strategy is to isolate the elderly and infirm for whom CV poses a mortal risk, and letting the rest of the population get on with it. Your whole "Off you go Grandad" rant is your usual straw man bullshit trying to convey some sort of moral superiority, when earlier you were happy to send nurses into treat patients with some cheap face masks off ebay.

Sweden strike me as wanting to do their best for the whole population, not just those at risk. Seems to have led to a far more balanced approach, so fair play to them imo. From what I can tell the Dutch have gone for a similar approach.

 

[Wij]

France is barring firms registered in offshore tax havens from its government coronavirus bailout, following similar bans in Denmark and Poland

 

[Bodhi]

France is barring firms registered in offshore tax havens from its government coronavirus bailout, following similar bans in Denmark and Poland

Knowing French politics I'm surprised they didn't include companies registered in tax havens like Ireland and Luxembourg...

 

[Moriath]

Knowing French politics I'm surprised they didn't include companies registered in tax havens like Ireland and Luxembourg...

Owners of second homes have been claiming the 10k grant to small businesses cause they set them up to rent them out a couple weeks a year to avoid second home tax and double council tax and such. So these peeps who can afford second homes are getting a 10k windfall. In the news here the councillors telling the gov to close that loop hole.

 

[Talivar]

How is the virus infected and death rates now in Sweden, is it starting to peak and level off like the countries that locked down?

 

[Bodhi]

Any health secretary will be the owner of this NHS supply company, not just Matt Hancock

 

[~Yuckfou~]

4 day old article but you get the picture..

Sweden has nearly 10 times the number of COVID-19-related deaths than its Nordic neighbors. Here's where it went wrong.

 

[Scouse]

Owners of second homes have been claiming the 10k grant to small businesses cause they set them up to rent them out a couple weeks a year to avoid second home tax and double council tax and such. So these peeps who can afford second homes are getting a 10k windfall. In the news here the councillors telling the gov to close that loop hole.

If you run a holiday let business it has to be available for a minimum of 210 days a year and has to be rented for at least half of that.

You expect the locals to moan about that though.

 

[Scouse]

Sweden strike me as wanting to do their best for the whole population, not just those at risk. Seems to have led to a far more balanced approach, so fair play to them imo

Yeah. Well done Sweden and your ten times the death rate of your neighbours fun.

Good job there.

 

[Wij]

Any health secretary will be the owner of this NHS supply company, not just Matt Hancock

Yes. As the tweet I posted said.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Coronavirus: Doctors launch legal action over government's PPE guidance

 

[Moriath]

Yeah. Well done Sweden and your ten times the death rate of your neighbours fun.

Good job there.

Claims Cornwall second home owners to benefit from coronavirus grants

I mean yeah of course you had no proof i was saying truths. Just jumped on a band wagon

Second home owners 'pocketing £10,000 coronavirus handout'

 

[SilverHood]

Coronavirus spread 'under the radar' in US major cities since January, researchers say - CNN

Once I get tested for antibodies, it will reveal if I had it back in mid January or not.

i guess it's good news that so many people had it and never knew, and are now immune.

 

[Yoni]

Yeah. Well done Sweden and your ten times the death rate of your neighbours fun.

Good job there.

Seriously stop being an idiot this is not a competition. Sweden are following the recommendations of their scientific advisors oO they are not following the recommendatoins of their politicians.

 

[DaGaffer]

Anyway, just to try to move on from blaming the Tories for a worldwide PPE shortage, thought I'd tell you a little personal experience of CV-19 and what we are dealing with.

Some of you may be aware, by my Nan is currently 98 years old. At the beginning of 2019 she had a fall and it became clear she couldn't look after herself, so had to either get a home carer or we had to put her in a home. She wouldn't accept a home carer or the work that had to be done to her home to make it safe for her, so we had to put her in a local home. Since then she has started to deteriorate, mentally, with concerns she may have to be moved to another home specialising in dementia.

Anyway since this has all kicked off apparently she has started to seriously go downhill. She is only briefly lucid, but spends the rest of the time away with the fairies, or going for walks with my Aunt Ethel who passed away 10 years ago. We have been in constant contact with the home, who reported their first CV-19 case last week, and the latest update is that they have sadly passed on, and there are two more identified cases. However the update also mentioned that they had lost another number of residents, which they were at pains to point out did not have CV-19.

Now, given that since this has all kicked off my Nan has gone seriously downhill, I wonder how many of these excess care home deaths are due to not the disease, but the panic and inability to see their family members, mean that they are effectively "giving up". Most of the residents in my Nan's home are 100+....

Some deaths certainly are because of that, and there are also alarming cases in some care homes where staff haven't been turning up (lack of PPE again), so underlying health issues aren't being managed.