Politics Coronavirus

[Yoni]

Smokers and Vapers May Be at Greater Risk for Covid-19
The term "may" is too kind in this instance - if i was still a smoker then I think I would have given up in March using patches (I gave up using this method in 2016).

 

[Wij]

Smokers and Vapers May Be at Greater Risk for Covid-19
The term "may" is too kind in this instance - if i was still a smoker then I think I would have given up in March using patches (I gave up using this method in 2016).

I still vape a bit but almost down to no vaping since my mod decided it enjoyed ejecting batteries randomly.

 

[Bodhi]

Smokers and Vapers May Be at Greater Risk for Covid-19
The term "may" is too kind in this instance - if i was still a smoker then I think I would have given up in March using patches (I gave up using this method in 2016).

I think that article may be a load of old bollocks personally. Actually may is too kind, as the numbers of those hospitalised in China, the US and France show that smokers are under-represented in the figures.

China - Smoking, vaping and hospitalization for COVID-19 - Article (Preprint v2) | Qeios
US - Factors associated with hospitalization and critical illness among 4,103 patients with COVID-19 disease in New York City

Interestingly, it looks as if outcomes are worse for those who have quit smoking, rather than those who continue.

So I'm off for a Marlboro for medical reasons tbpfh.

 

[Yoni]

I am not sure that is a sensible point of view however I remember coming up with similar excuses when I smoked so I get it

Btw how can you possibly take anything seriously from China's numbers - they are all bullshit - I thought we had established this already as for the second article there is no mention of smokers at all - this doesn't mean there isnt a correlation just that the overriding issue is severe obesity. Please cite your sources for France and the US.

 

[Bodhi]

Oh don't worry, it seems completely counter-intuitive that one of the best ways to avoid being hospitalised in a Global Repsiratory Illness Pandemic is to smoke, but apart from one small study of 5 people, that is what the studies are saying so far. China's numbers are dubious, but NYC, France and Germany (which I forgot about) are not.

Good Twitter thread on it, all referenced Thread by @cjsnowdon: 1/ New study looking at risk factors for hospitalisation and critical illness from COVID-19. Thread. medrxiv.org/content/10.110… 2/ Age is b…

With BAT working on a vaccine, and Philip Morris making ventilators, I hope y'all are ready for Big Tobacco to save the day

 

[Ormorof]

What a shamalyan style twist if true

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/homeopathy_inh/status/1249789720265142281

 

[Yoni]

I didn't read the UK Gov information just the piece by NYT. If true yes amusing - if bullcrap I won't be surprised in the slightest.

 

[Yoni]

Sweden have not caught up yet after the Easter break - my estimate is that there are between 300 to 400 deaths missing looking at the runrate before the holidays. I also believe that sweden are including homes in their deaths where as other countries are not. I will try to substantiate that further.

 

[Scouse]

- if bullcrap I won't be surprised in the slightest.

If the story and any science wasn't funded in some way by the tobacco industry I would not only be surprised, I'd be amazed!

 

[Embattle]

I read something a while a go that seemed to imply that while smokers are less likely to get it, it has a higher chance of being fatal if they do....no shocker considering the coating of chemicals covering their lungs

Again it is just something else to be looked at next year.

 

[Yoni]

I think Sweden is going to take much stricter action from next week - why? They have just increased the amount they will return to employers for short time working - it is increased from 50% to 80% - so if you earn 44k Sek or lower and are reduced to 20% working time they will recieve c.90% of their salary of which 80% is paid by the government. What I would like is to be able to put employees on zero time working with 80% paid up to 44k Sek if they are high risk that are unable to work from home.

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1250053205121253376

 

[Yoni]

Why the facepalm? it isnt good news even if it is delivered by Piers Morgan...
I established that in Sweden the numbers include ALL deaths where CV19 was a contributing factor ie not necessarily the cause of death, AND from any location albeit home, care home, hospital or homeless. France also include deaths from nursing homes (no reference to at home OR homeless), however, Spain, Italy, UK and USA do not. So please do not beleive the bullshit they are giving in the daily conference where they state that this is how other countries are measuring it. From that it can absolutely be concluded that deaths per million is not a reliable statistic either when comparing one country against another, I guess you can assume that if deaths are high and the country is not including all deaths then the local situation for that country is far worse than countries who are being more transparent. Additionally I have read but need to re-substantiate that some of the lower countries (including those excluding Sweden in Scandinavia are only citing CV19 if it is the cause of death not a contributing factor).

Very early study on care homes : Mortality associated with COVID-19 outbreaks in care homes: early international evidence

 

[Moriath]

View: https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1250053205121253376

Well the official numbers were 700 and something so thats wrong and the rest well. Bull hooks tbh. It was a bank holiday as well so numbers go down few people work even in the nhs. So deaths are not registered as quick and the number of tests processed is likely to go down.

 

[Yoni]

Interesting article on how in Stockholm they are testing poop to understand the spread in the population

Nu testas Stockholms avloppsvatten för att spåra en andra virusvåg - DN.SE


"For a week, the wastewater at the wastewater treatment plants in Bromma and Henriksdal is tested daily to check how high the spread of Covid-19 is among the Stockholmers.

- We use the wastewater to get an early indication of the spread of infection among a large number of individuals in Stockholm. We know that the virus follows the feces out and can therefore easily be detected in wastewater, says David Nilsson, director of the KTH Water Center.

The project was started fast and is run by about ten people from KTH, SciLifeLab and Stockholm water and waste. They carry out sampling and analysis to find a quick and safe method to monitor the spread of infection throughout the population.

- It's a faster method than testing people. Testing individuals is both costly and in Sweden now limited to those admitted to hospitals. It may take up to three weeks for the tests to show that people have been infected. This is a quick way to see the spread of infection among all Stockholmers and be able to follow it day by day, he says."

 

[Yoni]

Well the official numbers were 700 and something so thats wrong and the rest well. Bull hooks tbh. It was a bank holiday as well so numbers go down few people work even in the nhs. So deaths are not registered as quick and the number of tests processed is likely to go down.

The total is not too different however the point about care homes is correct - they are not effectively measured in the UK and I am not sure they can be. Individuals have a NI number but it is not like the personnummer in Sweden or even the BSN in the Netherlands. BSN in NL is a little looser than the Swedish equivalent which tracks everything I do - I know most of you hate the idea but actually I like it which is besides the point. Personnumber enables statistics to be gathered quickly and accurately about everything you do in life from tax forms, prescriptions to ordering shopping online or booking a nail appointment. It also means that if I move I notifiy the tax authorities and they notify all the important organisations for me and that my tax form comes pre prepared with 90% of data correct (including banks and most investments).

 

[Moriath]

Office of national statistics are running totals including all registered deaths. Showing care homes and all. It would be impossible unless you had immediate electronic death certification to include all. They say it usually takes 2 or 3 days to register and then a few more for the systems to catch up.

 

[Jupitus]

Interesting article on how in Stockholm they are testing poop to understand the spread in the population

Nu testas Stockholms avloppsvatten för att spåra en andra virusvåg - DN.SE


"For a week, the wastewater at the wastewater treatment plants in Bromma and Henriksdal is tested daily to check how high the spread of Covid-19 is among the Stockholmers.

- We use the wastewater to get an early indication of the spread of infection among a large number of individuals in Stockholm. We know that the virus follows the feces out and can therefore easily be detected in wastewater, says David Nilsson, director of the KTH Water Center.

The project was started fast and is run by about ten people from KTH, SciLifeLab and Stockholm water and waste. They carry out sampling and analysis to find a quick and safe method to monitor the spread of infection throughout the population.

- It's a faster method than testing people. Testing individuals is both costly and in Sweden now limited to those admitted to hospitals. It may take up to three weeks for the tests to show that people have been infected. This is a quick way to see the spread of infection among all Stockholmers and be able to follow it day by day, he says."

Sounds like a load of shit to me, tbpfh ....

./coat ... *runs*

 

[Bodhi]

If the story and any science wasn't funded in some way by the tobacco industry I would not only be surprised, I'd be amazed!

Well considering the research was done by all the relevant country's health authorities, I'd be prepared to be amazed.

Just need someone to do a similar exercise on IQOS now

 

[Bodhi]

Why the facepalm? it isnt good news even if it is delivered by Piers Morgan...
I established that in Sweden the numbers include ALL deaths where CV19 was a contributing factor ie not necessarily the cause of death, AND from any location albeit home, care home, hospital or homeless. France also include deaths from nursing homes (no reference to at home OR homeless), however, Spain, Italy, UK and USA do not. So please do not beleive the bullshit they are giving in the daily conference where they state that this is how other countries are measuring it. From that it can absolutely be concluded that deaths per million is not a reliable statistic either when comparing one country against another, I guess you can assume that if deaths are high and the country is not including all deaths then the local situation for that country is far worse than countries who are being more transparent. Additionally I have read but need to re-substantiate that some of the lower countries (including those excluding Sweden in Scandinavia are only citing CV19 if it is the cause of death not a contributing factor).

Very early study on care homes : Mortality associated with COVID-19 outbreaks in care homes: early international evidence

The face-palm is because his Tweet was mostly either wrong or made up. Considering he claims to be "holding the government to account", and just not angrily ranting at people becuas Boris gave Phil and Holly an interview and not him, I'd expect him to:

1) Get the numbers right. The total deaths went up by 700 odd going by the NHS.
2) Interpret the numbers correctly, as we know only a small propertion of those occurred in the last 24 hours.
3) Not pull numbers out of his ass, like the 1000s of care home deaths claim. Even Channel 4 News only claimed 400.

The man is a fucking tool, and in this situation a bit of a menace tbh.

 

[Wij]

The face-palm is because his Tweet was mostly either wrong or made up. Considering he claims to be "holding the government to account", and just not angrily ranting at people becuas Boris gave Phil and Holly an interview and not him, I'd expect him to:

1) Get the numbers right. The total deaths went up by 700 odd going by the NHS.
2) Interpret the numbers correctly, as we know only a small propertion of those occurred in the last 24 hours.
3) Not pull numbers out of his ass, like the 1000s of care home deaths claim. Even Channel 4 News only claimed 400.

The man is a fucking tool, and in this situation a bit of a menace tbh.

The 400 figure was only known cases up to April 3rd. It's mind-bogglingly unlikely that it isn't much higher.

Anyway. My point was that Piers, a bell-end who's natural instinct is to lick every boot, is somehow the one trying to hold the government to account whilst journalists with supposedly better credentials daren't. Seems a bit odd.

 

[Embattle]

Anyway. My point was that Piers, a bell-end who's natural instinct is to lick every boot, is somehow the one trying to hold the government to account whilst journalists with supposedly better credentials daren't. Seems a bit odd.

Not really since they've hurt his pride by ignoring him for ages and not coming on his show, which isn't surprising since whenever I've seen him he has a tendency to run over other people when they are talking including his co-presenters.

 

[Bodhi]

The 400 figure was only known cases up to April 3rd. It's mind-bogglingly unlikely that it isn't much higher.

Anyway. My point was that Piers, a bell-end who's natural instinct is to lick every boot, is somehow the one trying to hold the government to account whilst journalists with supposedly better credentials daren't. Seems a bit odd.

Refresh my memory, was he as critical of Government failures when our squaddies were sent to Iraq with some combat boots and body armour they got off eBay and a bunch of knackered old Land Rovers?

Ah no, he was making up stories about the squaddies pissing on people.

Cock.

(Him, not you).

 

[caLLous]

And as if all that wasn't bad enough, he's a bloody Arsenal fan.

 

[Yoni]

So Volvo in Sweden are starting up production again in Sweden from next week not at full capacity but they will utilise the goverments short time initiative (employees 80% paid by government). (source DN.se)

 

[Embattle]

He also tends to talk about leaders taking responsibility while casually ignoring what his position was at the Daily Mirror during the hacking scandal.

 

[Gumbo]

So Volvo in Sweden are starting up production again in Sweden from next week not at full capacity but they will utilise the goverments short time initiative (employees 80% paid by government). (source DN.se)

In this country if you're claiming the 80% then they can't so much as send an email.

 

[Yoni]

There has to be care taken here also I beleive from friends who are currently on short time. Proof needs to be available that over a period could be 3 months you have worked no more than the time stated - this means that if I as an accountant was put on short term I would work most of my hours around month end so it is very flexible.

 

[Deebs]

Thank fuck.

What you describe sounds like an authoritarian morgue rather than somewhere civilians go to get well!

We spend the second lowest in the G7 but about median for OECD members. But if you look at outcomes from coronavirus from Germany vs United States vs UK (what we can anyway) there's an argument to see about which model gets most bang for buck.

The problem is the bang-for-buck issue is some countries do vastly better than others. So the metrics themselves need to be measured by experts, not members of the public. Which leads to a level of opacity that's unpalatable.

Anyway. I'm just waffling - I'm always dumb after a bike ride. This is interesting tho

You ever been in a military hospital (obv before 1995). Based on my experiences I would rather be treated by the Military rather than the NHS. Period.