Politics Coronavirus

[Scouse]

when the crisis is done they will be held accountable...

I keep being told this but it's a crock of shit.

If you aren't angry with your leaders right now at the avoidable death whilst it's going on around you then you're not gonna do shit when everyone's back at work.

What's likely to happen when this is over is that we'll have lost a few more rights and freedoms and the pliant and complicit public will wave it through, grateful the death didn't hit them.

We are a bitched-up pussy society. That's why, instead of screaming at our leaders for decades of underfunding the NHS, leading to many of the problems nurses and doctors are experiencing right now, we're tutting at the messengers.

How does giving our leaders a free pass "help our nurses" - the ones telling journalists on condition of anonymity that they're terrified of speaking out - but telling people to keep schtum and carrying on is somehow useful?

Bullshit. We're a pussy-whipped slave race, scared to "hear bad things" in case they upset us. We show no real solidarity with those who are suffering beyond going outside and banging a few pans.

When it comes to the ballot box - where we exercise what political voice we have - we show our true colours: fuck the NHS - we want that cash in our pocket, not in nurse's pockets.

There ain't no dodging that. THAT is the reality.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Fortunately I bought popcorn last time out, continue....

 

[Scouse]

Oh, btw, don't be quick to blame the british public for not following lockdown procedures.

Bar an irreducable minimum, which we need to put down to "human arseholes being human arseholes" people are largely taking things very seriously and doing what they've been asked.

It's just a shame that they weren't asked earlier, despite people from other countries screaming at us "DO IT NOW FOR FUCKS SAKE!! SAVE LIVES!!!"

And don't try to blame the medics - you don't blame the physio when the team doesn't perform.

 

[Deebs]

Oh, btw, don't be quick to blame the british public for not following lockdown procedures.

Bar an irreducable minimum, which we need to put down to "human arseholes being human arseholes" people are largely taking things very seriously and doing what they've been asked.

It's just a shame that they weren't asked earlier, despite people from other countries screaming at us "DO IT NOW FOR FUCKS SAKE!! SAVE LIVES!!!"

And don't try to blame the medics - you don't blame the physio when the team doesn't perform.

If the Army was on the street enforcing a lockdown you would be shouting from the roofs.

 

[Yoni]

Sorry but I will not waste precious energy on getting angry Scouse - I am sorry but I refuse to live like that and I still do not see what good it is doing. As I said we are all aware of the governments short comings in all of the countries we live in but don’t you think there could be people who need support right now - emotional support.

 

[Deebs]

I'm sure they will, but will they be answered? We've already got the beeb telling their reporters not to ask difficult questions in interviews and the sham press briefings. Not only that, the gov are very selective about who they even let pose questions and they're bound to be vetting all the questions in advance.

This government is already notorious for suppressing reports (one of which, ironically enough, was about the pandemic trial run they put the NHS through a couple of years ago) - if you think they're suddenly going to become introspective and wonderfully transparent when the dust settles after this then I have a bridge to sell you. Holding them to account while it's going on is the only way anything will ever change.

Can I buy the bridge? Always wanted to own one. You are posting from another country. How are they doing? Criticizing them?

 

[Scouse]

If the Army was on the street enforcing a lockdown you would be shouting from the roofs.

Quite rightly so. We clearly don't need them to.

The public has been asked and, largely, have voluntarily complied with restrictions akin to house arrest.

Well done Blighty. You can be proud of yourselves.

Your political masters, on the other hand...

 

[Scouse]

don’t you think there could be people who need support right now - emotional support.

For christs' sake - it's not a bleeding either/or question.

"Oh you bad man scouse. You spent ten minutes writing a post criticising a government that's culpable for a lot of unnecessary death. That must mean you've no time left for emotionally supporting your mum, or sister, or elderly relatives.

Or eating."




This is bullshit yons. You just don't like the message. And I stand by it. Because it's true.

 

[Yoni]

Please can you just stop telling me how I think and feel - just stop.

 

[MYstIC G]

What an utter crock of shit that some fucking arts student made up there.

"I practice quietude, patience relationships and creativity" - ROFL!! Sounds like the sort of bullshit they preach in my psychotic brother's hippy self-help groups that haven't pulled him out o


Despite maintaining a "happy emotional state" and "spreading hope" (to those who need it), remaining "empathetic with myself and with others" and making "my talents available to those who need them" whilst "recognising we are all trying to do our best" I'm not about to ditch my strongest attributes - my intellect and my ability to express my thoughts - when it comes to the cause of excess death from coronavirus in the UK.

Despite the benefit of hindsight - examples of exactly what was happening around the world and explicit pleas from knowledgeable experts going through the epidemic before us to "not make the same mistakes we did" - our government failed to listen. It did not heed the warnings and take the correct measures at the correct times.

This failure has lead to more death than was necessary.

Not "hardship". Not "unemployment". Not wife-beating. But significant amounts of actual, verifiable, avoidable death.


Nice-sounding but totally not evidence-based pie-charts designed to tell me to "shut the fuck up" isn't going to silence utterly correct and deserved criticism of our political masters who're going to come out of this shitstorm, shrug, point at the rest of the world and go "shit happens" - and we'll suck it down.

This shit was avoidable in so many ways - starting long before coronavirus was a thing. We've all imagined how we could have done things differently in our own lives given the benefit of hindsight. Well, when it came to these thousand-deaths-a-day we HAD it.

Telling people to STFU when they rightly want to criticize the actions of their political leaders in some attempt to hold them to account for the deaths it was their job to prevent is intellectual cowardice at best. But, in reality, is an utterly abhorrent case of denialism and fatalism.

What good do you think you are doing? do you think getting angry and pointing fingers is going to help the doctors and nurses who dont have enough PPE, do you think that articles like that are going to really help people who have lost loved ones? I am not sure what you are trying to achieve? I am not telling you to shut up I just don't see how it is helping anyone? Everyone is aware that many governments (not just the UK) in the world have fucked up and yes of course when the crisis is done they will be held accountable... I just think now is a time for community and helping out when and where you can..

Hey @Deebs can we just change everyone's display name to Job now and stop pretending?

 

[Scouse]

Please can you just stop telling me how I think and feel - just stop.

Explain your position better / in more detail then. - otherwise I'm going to continue to make that mistake, because on the face of it - that's how it looks.

 

[Scouse]

Hey @Deebs can we just change everyone's display name to Job now and stop pretending?

To be fair - if he gets back after 30 days and everyone's called the same thing it'd be pretty funny

 

[Scouse]

BTW - it's funny, the disagrees/facepalms have come from people I'd call FH's "tory clique".

Just sayin'

 

[Moriath]

BTW - it's funny, the disagrees/facepalms have come from people I'd call FH's "tory clique".

Just sayin'

Turning into @Gwadien lol.

tbh in times like this as in ww2 we should have a cross party government. And have both parties working towards the common good. Not sniping at each other.

oh and if we had locked down on march 1st say. I am sure the spread would have been contained better. But it wouldnt stop the fact that we all will get in unless a vaccine is made.

Also i dont know that there is enough manufacturing capability for the global requirements for all the ppe everyone would like to have and the infrastructure to distribute it.

i think your isolation is affecting your mind lol

 

[caLLous]

Can I buy the bridge? Always wanted to own one. You are posting from another country. How are they doing? Criticizing them?

It's not a competition. Everybody has had shortages and there have been criticisms of every government (it's masks in France - there was supposed to be a stockpile of over a billion but they've allowed it to be depleted to a fraction of that without resupply).

Only the leader of 1 country that I care about went around shaking the hands of people who had tested positive though. How many governments have had as many ministers and medical folk out of action as the UK has? Johnson nearly died, Hancock was out of action a week, Whitty for over 10 days, Gove is isolating... These people are supposed to be leading the response ffs.

 

[Deebs]

Quite rightly so. We clearly don't need them to.

The public has been asked and, largely, have voluntarily complied with restrictions akin to house arrest.

Well done Blighty. You can be proud of yourselves.

Your political masters, on the other hand...

So how the fuck can you blame the Government? The people that didn't follow the advice are to blame.

 

[Scouse]

i think your isolation is affecting your mind lol

Other than actual work (which has been off the charts hard - pulled another 24 hour shift the other day, on the 3rd day of my "holiday" (knocked it on the head now until the 20th, although I need to fit maybe half a day in tomorrow morning)) - corona lockdown has been 3 of the easiest weeks of my life.

Family has started responding, got them on zoom and talking to each other properly. Which is nice. And as for me I've this stuff literally on my doorstep:

Spoiler

Spoiler

So every day I get out for a walk or a ride (avoiding anything technical - gotta be safe!) and instead of how it usually is, from the door it's just bloody great

 

[Scouse]

So how the fuck can you blame the Government? The people that didn't follow the advice are to blame.

Lockdown was late @Deebs. Despite experts from other countries pleading with us to take action to avoid what was happening, our government equivocated.

The buck stops with them.

As for the "people that didn't follow advice" - aside from the fact that that's our government to a tee - I've already addressed that twice. Including posting an article quoting the police thanking the UK population for being so good.

 

[SilverHood]

Has there even been out breaks in latin america or africa. I hear about za from people i know there. But there seems to be huge swathes of the world that are not being reported on in this thing

My girlfriends best friend is from Ecuador, she says hospitals are overflowing and they don't have the equipment to deal with it. They have been told "if you get sick, don't go to the hospital, no room". Her uncle died and she has several other family members with symptoms.
The GF's mom lives in Mexico City. They don't have the capacity to test people, so most of the deaths are unreported. Seems like they are 2-3 weeks behind the USA in terms of infections.

 

[Scouse]

That sucks @SilverHood. Sorry to hear that.

 

[caLLous]

I saw last week that it was so bad in Guayaquil in Ecuador that they were leaving bodies of loved ones out in the street. The city was too overwhelmed to go and collect them and the families didn't want to risk keeping them inside for fear of infection.

 

[Bodhi]

Lockdown was late @Deebs. Despite experts from other countries pleading with us to take action to avoid what was happening, our government equivocated.

The buck stops with them.

As for the "people that didn't follow advice" - aside from the fact that that's our government to a tee - I've already addressed that twice. Including posting an article quoting the police thanking the UK population for being so good.

Belgium locked down 10 days before we did, how are they currently getting on?

 

[Talivar]

They currently have not too far away from 1/3 of our deaths, 7000 less people have died there

 

[Yoni]

No their deaths are 311 per 1 mio pop and UK is 156 per 1 mio pop. Only part of Belgium closed down early the Flemish part allowed more liberties.

 

[Scouse]

Belgium locked down 10 days before we did, how are they currently getting on?

How about a bigger country?

Or one which is only slightly smaller?

Mismanagement. Clear and obvious mismanagement. Of something that experts have been warning us about for a long time now.

 

[Embattle]

There are so many variables involved that people trying to make direct comparisons are being a tad silly.

 

[Scouse]

No their deaths are 311 per 1 mio pop and UK is 156 per 1 mio pop. Only part of Belgium closed down early the Flemish part allowed more liberties.

Yep. But it won't stop @Bodhi pointing at the rest of the world as an excuse.

If you've done a shit thing, you're still responsible for it.

 

[Scouse]

There are so many variables involved that people trying to make direct comparisons are being a tad silly.

Not when there are examples of management by democratic governments that are so clearly streets ahead of us that were prepared and handled it in the right way it isn't.

To be clear: We could have prepared for this, on the back of SARS and MERS.

But we didn't. (In the same way we underfunded our health service. That has also led to excess death)

 

[Yoni]

No he is making the point that many governments have and are still fucking up - many many
people have and will continue to die due to the errors that have been made - what is your point apart from telling people how they should think and feel ?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

I'm gonna need more popcorn.