Politics Coronavirus

[Scouse]

(UK) Care homes update:

>15,000 care homes in England ... ~200 hospitals.

Two of the UK's largest care home companies have provided the most up-to-date picture of what is happening in residential and nursing homes.

On Monday, HC-One, which operates 350 homes, said it had had 311 deaths linked to Covid-19, with outbreaks in two-thirds of its homes. The Methodist Homes Association reported 210 deaths in its 131 homes. Outbreaks occurred in about half of those homes

Based on that - it's likely better (worse) than 1:1 in terms of number of homes to deaths.

If UK has had 14,576 deaths from 108,692 confirmed cases (reporting hospital numbers) then we could be looking at double those figures.

Blighty is looking pretty fucking shonky at the moment. And don't anyone tell me that pointing out that much of our high death rate is because Bo-jo failed to act quickly is "off colour" or "unhelpful". Buck stops with the government - who's first job is to keep it's people safe.


Anyway. One of Tam's direct report's dad's funeral yesterday. (Care home). She couldn't attend him before his death because she still lives with her at-risk mum and there was a risk of bringing it home to her. Heartbreaking.

Six gone in that care home. Her Uncle's got it too, and atm it doesn't look hopeful apparently.

 

[Scouse]

 

[Yoni]

Sorry @Yoni - but you are clearly taking it personally with your "deciding that they're deliberately killing people on purpose" bullcrap.

I've no "personal agenda" with Sweden other than I'm interested in discussing the fact that Sweden's struck out on a limb. I'm interested in the results of this social experiment, nothing more than that. I actually would like the idea that a less draconian measure could bring about a lower death rate - but whichever way you spin it including deaths from old people's homes doesn't explain the currently reported gap.

Frankly, if I have an agenda it's that I'm a bit fucked off that the whole world didn't do what the defunded-WHO said (and which Korea succesfully did) - test, test, test. For that Britain, the USA, Sweden, everyone is pretty much guilty and culpable - and that is the comparison that we should be making.

So pull your knickers out of yer crack - this is NOT a personal vendetta against Sweden. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Again for the love of all things on this earth please stop telling me how I am taking your information - it makes you look like an arrogant wanker who believes that his point of view is superior to all.

To explain my reaction it appears in the way that you are approaching the debate (not that i am not accusing of anything just the perception), that you do have an agenda as you keep bringing Sweden up in a negative context whist ignoring other countries who are also doing things very differently with varying results for example the Netherlands.

Additionally, why are you not outraged at the lack of respect for personal space during the weekly 8pm celebration of the NHS and careworkers which is a breeding ground for spreading the virus to the group they are celebrating. As you are so opinionated on thsi topic why are you not not researching more deeply, you seem to be taking the easy information from statistical sites where there are no definitions on the values presented. How do you know that the numbers coming out of the countries who are peforming well are completely factual let alone comparable- only today China has increased reported deaths in Wuhan by 50% (a token adjustment I beleive cant prove it sady) and also France last week begant to include deaths in homes (as information shown at the daily UK conference now state that they are excluding them to ensure a more L4L figure).

I disagree with Bohdi about many things political these days however in the instance above he is posting information from a valid source and you dismissed it - how is this ok? I do not think it is, especially from someone who perpetuates the use of valid sources, empirical evidence without emotion during a debate.

Next tme why don't you try "sure Bohdi my information is not as up to date as yours nor was from the offical public statistics sorry"

Oh and do you need to be so crass - really doesnt become you dear.

Back on topic - yes Sweden have passed a law to make quicker for government to make decisions however any decisions can be reversed by parliment very quickly (in under 24 hours). There will be NO curfew type lockdown at this time as this reqires a law to be passed which will take weeks.

The new law will be used for example to shut all schools (still open to 16 years of age) should there be evidence of increased spread due to them being open or to close down restaurants or shopping centers en mass (currently there are inspectors checking that they are following recommendations if not they will be closed individually).

Yesterday Löfven stated that although he had been granted new powers he does not see at this time that there will ne a necessity to use them unless the current situation drasically changes - however I believe that they maybe used to isolate towns (like they did in Finland with Helsinki region or to restrict complete activities ie farmers markets as there seems to be a lack of respect for the recommendations at this in the South).

As for non essential business ie hairdressers / nail salon's department stores there is currently no desire to close them down especially now, as in Denmark / Germany these places are begining to open up again.

Source - Daily news conference which can be see DN.se

 

[Moriath]

Again for the love of all things on this earth please stop telling me how I am taking your information - it makes you look like an arrogant wanker who believes that his point of view is superior to all.

To explain my reaction it appears in the way that you are approaching the debate (not that i am not accusing of anything just the perception), that you do have an agenda as you keep bringing Sweden up in a negative context whist ignoring other countries who are also doing things very differently with varying results for example the Netherlands.

Additionally, why are you not outraged at the lack of respect for personal space during the weekly 8pm celebration of the NHS and careworkers which is a breeding ground for spreading the virus to the group they are celebrating. As you are so opinionated on thsi topic why are you not not researching more deeply, you seem to be taking the easy information from statistical sites where there are no definitions on the values presented. How do you know that the numbers coming out of the countries who are peforming well are completely factual let alone comparable- only today China has increased reported deaths in Wuhan by 50% (a token adjustment I beleive cant prove it sady) and also France last week begant to include deaths in homes (as information shown at the daily UK conference now state that they are excluding them to ensure a more L4L figure).

I disagree with Bohdi about many things political these days however in the instance above he is posting information from a valid source and you dismissed it - how is this ok? I do not think it is, especially from someone who perpetuates the use of valid sources, empirical evidence without emotion during a debate.

Next tme why don't you try "sure Bohdi my information is not as up to date as yours nor was from the offical public statistics sorry"

Oh and do you need to be so crass - really doesnt become you dear.

Back on topic - yes Sweden have passed a law to make quicker for government to make decisions however any decisions can be reversed by parliment very quickly (in under 24 hours). There will be NO curfew type lockdown at this time as this reqires a law to be passed which will take weeks.

The new law will be used for example to shut all schools (still open to 16 years of age) should there be evidence of increased spread due to them being open or to close down restaurants or shopping centers en mass (currently there are inspectors checking that they are following recommendations if not they will be closed individually).

Yesterday Löfven stated that although he had been granted new powers he does not see at this time that there will ne a necessity to use them unless the current situation drasically changes - however I believe that they maybe used to isolate towns (like they did in Finland with Helsinki region or to restrict complete activities ie farmers markets as there seems to be a lack of respect for the recommendations at this in the South).

As for non essential business ie hairdressers / nail salon's department stores there is currently no desire to close them down especially now, as in Denmark / Germany these places are begining to open up again.

Source - Daily news conference which can be see DN.se

@Scouse likes to tell people how they should see things and if you dont see them his way you are dismissed as a inferior person who just doesnt understand. Since @Job has been on holiday he seems to be using the same strat against the rest of us now. Calm down dude. People can have differing views without either being wrong.

 

[Scouse]

Bucket of poop @Moriath.

@Yoni is saying I have some sort of anti-sweden agenda - read her posts, I quoted them. And she's wrong - but when I regurgitate back to her what she typed to me, it's somehow my fault and I'm "telling her what to think"

Me and @Bodhi have always disagreed. Chalk n cheese.

 

[Scouse]

And there we go - UK government reverses previous decision and restarts contact tracing, which is what the WHO said to do all along.

The WHO has repeatedly urged governments to pursue the strategy, which has been key to stopping epidemics around the world in modern times. “Tracing every contact must be the backbone of the response in every country,” the director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said in March.

March. Well. Better late than...

 

[Yoni]

COVID-19: genetic network analysis provides ‘snapshot’ of pandemic origins

This article seems to begin to give some answers on spread, how it has mutated and the different regions and the mutation type of CV19. It also could / potentially begin to explain the differences in death rates experienced in the different countries - especially when deaths in Asia seem to be substantially lower than in Europe. Potentially (definately not confirmed but could be considered) is a comparison between Finland and Sweden who have similar measures of restriction (excluding the lockdown of Helsinki although people in Sweden recommended not to leave or go to Stockholm (some idiots sadly took no notice). Finland is the main hub in to Northern Europe from China and the Far east - it would be very interesting to understand the variant of CV19 in Finland (I could not see it in the article) and compare it with that from other european countries (UK, France, Italy, Sweden viariant C in the article).

 

[Wij]

Coronavirus: Currently 'no evidence' that COVID-19 survivors have immunity, WHO warns

 

[Bodhi]

Coronavirus: Currently 'no evidence' that COVID-19 survivors have immunity, WHO warns

Woah, that is the mother of all misleading headlines. They are saying there is no guarantee the tests work, not that people who have survived have immunity.

Typical panic porn from our shit useless media tbh.

 

[Wij]

Thread:


View: https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1251434219139665920

 

[Moriath]

Surely theres a case that the tests work but long term immunity isnt.

 

[Scouse]

They are saying there is no guarantee the tests work, not that people who have survived have immunity

[/QUOTE]
More comprehension fail there @Bodhi.

The tests work - they can tell if you've had it.

But having had it is "no guarantee of future immunity".

So the headline is bob-on really. "Currently no evidence that survivors have immunity". Yep. That's about right.

 

[caLLous]

They are saying there is no guarantee the tests work, not that people who have survived have immunity.

Speaking at a news conference in Geneva, Dr Maria van Kerkhove said: "There are a lot of countries that are suggesting using rapid diagnostic serological tests to be able to capture what they think will be a measure of immunity.

"Right now, we have no evidence that the use of a serological test can show that an individual has immunity or is protected from reinfection."

She added: "These antibody tests will be able to measure that level of seroprevalence - that level of antibodies - but that does not mean that somebody with antibodies means that they are immune."

The headline is entirely accurate. She says that the tests will detect the antibodies (which is their purpose, to confirm that the person previously had the virus and survived) but just because they do, doesn't mean that that person can be said to be immune.

 

[dysfunction]

Just because you have antibodies doesn't necessarily mean you can't catch it again.

 

[Wij]

Telegraph telegraphing:


View: https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1251253347564294146

 

[Bodhi]

More comprehension fail there @Bodhi.

The tests work - they can tell if you've had it.

But having had it is "no guarantee of future immunity".

So the headline is bob-on really. "Currently no evidence that survivors have immunity". Yep. That's about right.[/QUOTE]

Nope, try reading a report with a bit more detail.

WHO warning: No evidence that antibody tests can show coronavirus immunity

Plus, if having the antibodies is no guarantee of future immunity, that's going to make a vaccine... Challenging.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Just so you guys get an understanding of what lockdown looks like here. This is our town.


View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=236133807737423&id=110684510282354

 

[Wij]

Just so you guys get an understanding of what lockdown looks like here. This is our town.


View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=236133807737423&id=110684510282354

Beat some sense into em. That’ll learn ‘em.

 

[DaGaffer]

Just so you guys get an understanding of what lockdown looks like here. This is our town.


View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=236133807737423&id=110684510282354

More like "knocked out" than "locked down".

At one point there were four vehicles and at least 16 cops on the scene. Who the fuck was he? Pablo Escobar?

 

[caLLous]

Coronavirus: Currently 'no evidence' that COVID-19 survivors have immunity, WHO warns

WHO warning: No evidence that antibody tests can show coronavirus immunity

One says that there's no evidence that those who have had COVID-19 have immunity and the other says that... there's no evidence that those who have had COVID-19 have immunity...

An antibody test's sole purpose is to tell you whether or you've had the virus. It looks for antibodies that the body has created to fight the virus and if it finds them, then that person has had it.

What the WHO is (*clearly*) saying is that governments around the world shouldn't base their decisions on relaxing lockdown measures on these tests because, even if the person has had the virus, there's "no evidence" that they have immunity.

Plus, if having the antibodies is no guarantee of future immunity, that's going to make a vaccine... Challenging.

No shit...

 

[Yoni]

Just so you guys get an understanding of what lockdown looks like here. This is our town.


View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=236133807737423&id=110684510282354

That is fucking disgusting ! They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves!

 

[~Yuckfou~]

That is fucking disgusting ! They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves!

Can't argue.
At the moment though any lip to the police and that's what happens. They are the local police, the Guardia will pull a gun on you.
I triple check I've got all my paperwork when I go out and can prove (as far as possible) that my trip (alone, as only one in a car unless a carer) is necessary.
Any sniff that I shouldn't be out and best case scenario is a 600 euro fine.
Thing is if you know what will happen then don't be a dick.

 

[Yoni]

I really could not give a tuppeny fuck if the person is being a dick that kind of over zealous behaviour by the police is just disgusting. I saw similar behavior by the French police in the poorer areas of Paris.... it is just inexcusable.

 

[gunner440]

Can't argue.
At the moment though any lip to the police and that's what happens. They are the local police, the Guardia will pull a gun on you.
I triple check I've got all my paperwork when I go out and can prove (as far as possible) that my trip (alone, as only one in a car unless a carer) is necessary.
Any sniff that I shouldn't be out and best case scenario is a 600 euro fine.
Thing is if you know what will happen then don't be a dick.

I really could not give a tuppeny fuck if the person is being a dick that kind of over zealous behaviour by the police is just disgusting. I saw similar behavior by the French police in the poorer areas of Paris.... it is just inexcusable.

This isn't any 'soft' lockdown. It's been ordered from the highest level and the authorities have been given the powers necessary to enforce. The sooner we're out of this then the sooner we can go back to what's left of our normal lives if that even becomes a thing again. I don't know what the situation is in the UK but over here the lockdown is far more serious than what the British media are showing me.

This guy had no valid reason to be out there. He seemed to just be out during the 8pm daily attracting attention.

Re: the video, it's in very faint Spanish but you can hear the officers instructing him to get on the ground with no success. He didn't do it after the 4th time and then they got physical as he wasn't complying.

As for over zealous? These guys aren't being given the right equipment in order to do their job. There is a shortage of the 'right' masks and the ones being distributed to the nacional / guardias (have friends in both, first hand information) aren't the ones they should be using. I don't have the technical info to hand but I think you get my point.

They don't want to be out there as much as anyone else but they have to. The least people can do is cooperate.

He did retarded shit and suffered the consequence. Claiming victim doesn't fly in my view.

 

[Bodhi]

Incredible the mental gymnastics some will go through to justify a bit of Police brutality. You can bet if it was a US cop people would be going apeshit.

Anyway, from a slightly more rational pov

Swedish expert: why lockdowns are the wrong policy - The Post

 

[Jupitus]

Hello @gunner440 by the way! Good to see ya!!

 

[Yoni]

This isn't any 'soft' lockdown. It's been ordered from the highest level and the authorities have been given the powers necessary to enforce. The sooner we're out of this then the sooner we can go back to what's left of our normal lives if that even becomes a thing again. I don't know what the situation is in the UK but over here the lockdown is far more serious than what the British media are showing me.

This guy had no valid reason to be out there. He seemed to just be out during the 8pm daily attracting attention.

Re: the video, it's in very faint Spanish but you can hear the officers instructing him to get on the ground with no success. He didn't do it after the 4th time and then they got physical as he wasn't complying.

As for over zealous? These guys aren't being given the right equipment in order to do their job. There is a shortage of the 'right' masks and the ones being distributed to the nacional / guardias (have friends in both, first hand information) aren't the ones they should be using. I don't have the technical info to hand but I think you get my point.

They don't want to be out there as much as anyone else but they have to. The least people can do is cooperate.

He did retarded shit and suffered the consequence. Claiming victim doesn't fly in my view.

Nope sorry doesn’t wash

 

[gunner440]

Incredible the mental gymnastics some will go through to justify a bit of Police brutality. You can bet if it was a US cop people would be going apeshit.

Anyway, from a slightly more rational pov

Swedish expert: why lockdowns are the wrong policy - The Post

I don't agree with the lockdown but unfortunately it's what got approved. Can't change it now.

Hello @gunner440 by the way! Good to see ya!!

Hello!

 

[Embattle]

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[~Yuckfou~]

Yea! No wait I haven't got kids...

Kids in Spain to Finally Be Allowed Out for Walks After April 27 and Sanchez Gives Residents an Update on the De-Escalation Phase - Euro Weekly News Spain Spain News Article