Politics Coronavirus

Aoami

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However testing asymptomatic people - otherwise known as healthy - really has to stop. Research suggests up to a third of flu cases are asymptomatic, and it wasn't something we ever cared too much about - as asymptomatic people don't really spread diseases. That's mostly coughs and sneezes.
Not really true. It's common to pass on flu before you exhibit any symptoms through talking alone. Don't need to be coughing or sneezing. Not sure what the answer is here but saying that everyone will be ok because kids are generally asymptomatic seems weird to me. If asymptomatic kids didn't spread it you wouldn't have empty classrooms because everyone has it.
 

Scouse

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From your link:
(Corrects headline and first paragraph to remove reference to the drug being effective in treating against Omicron in Phase III clinical trials)
Oops! :D

So, no. They didn't say that.

In fact, to go further, they clarified that effects were observed:

in joint non-clinical research

Add to that - even if Ivermectin is actually, somewhere on the planet, being subject to a Phase III clinical trial regarding covid treatment - those trials have not concluded and we cannot make any claims due to efficacy. And even if those trials, that may or may not exist, do turn out to prove it effective, then the answer isn't "WE KNEW ALL ALONG" - the answer is "nobody knew, because we didn't have any science to back it up - and now we do - so only from now we can use it in x manner - and anyone who's been promoting/using it before is still a massive thundercunt".

:)
 

Bodhi

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From your link:


Oops! :D

So, no. They didn't say that.

In fact, to go further, they clarified that effects were observed:




Add to that - even if Ivermectin is actually, somewhere on the planet, being subject to a Phase III clinical trial regarding covid treatment - those trials have not concluded and we cannot make any claims due to efficacy. And even if those trials, that may or may not exist, do turn out to prove it effective, then the answer isn't "WE KNEW ALL ALONG" - the answer is "nobody knew, because we didn't have any science to back it up - and now we do - so only from now we can use it in x manner - and anyone who's been promoting/using it before is still a massive thundercunt".

:)
Sad thing is the evidence base for Ivermectin being effective against the Rona is about as strong as it is for masks - lots of observations in the lab that they work, less in the real world.

Probably why I use neither :)
 

old.Osy

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Eldest daughter got it (we suspect from a kids birthday party), then went to school. Two of her classmates now with symptoms.

She had a slight headache and mild nevralgic pains in her feet, coupled with a fever. Two days prior, a throat ache started for me, coupled with a very mild asthenia.

We're all ok now, self quarantine for 2 weeks.

Nanny's out of the picture till then obv, fun fun fun.

Edit: I'm 3/3 moderna, wife's 2/2 pfizer.
 

Scouse

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So, you all felt a bit shit and you're cracking on because the vaccines are doing their job :)

Next step - we rule out testing for it any more and we can crack on as normal, nanny in-picture - as per plan.
 

old.Osy

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So, you all felt a bit shit and you're cracking on because the vaccines are doing their job :)

Next step - we rule out testing for it any more and we can crack on as normal, nanny in-picture - as per plan.
I disagree. That is way too optimistic and borderline irresponsible. Treating this as a common cold is mis-representing the impact for the populace. Unless I misunderstood you?
 

Raven

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You still have to be sensible. Just because Bojo needed a quick and dirty distraction, doesn't mean we can all have a pile on again.

I am surprised he didn't double down and bring the half-term forward a week, he will perhaps save that for tomorrow, depending on what needs to go out on a busy news day.
 

Scouse

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I disagree. That is way too optimistic and borderline irresponsible. Treating this as a common cold is mis-representing the impact for the populace. Unless I misunderstood you?
No. You didn't understand me.

The existence of the vaccine is the start of the end-game. There is no better level of protection that can be afforded to us. The whole point of the lockdowns was to get to the point where the vaccine was available - and then to return to normal life.

Eventually we will ditch the need for covid testing. Not yet, but we're on the runway for it. That's why I said "next step". :)
 

old.Osy

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No. You didn't understand me.

The existence of the vaccine is the start of the end-game. There is no better level of protection that can be afforded to us. The whole point of the lockdowns was to get to the point where the vaccine was available - and then to return to normal life.

Eventually we will ditch the need for covid testing. Not yet, but we're on the runway for it. That's why I said "next step". :)
Long, long way away from that I'm afraid. And that is still *IF* conditions will be met to ever get to that stage. Which I sincerely doubt.

Vulnerable, auto-immune compromised people that can't get the vaccine, cancer patients, etc - the list is long. Current measures (testing, quarantine, masks, isolation, etc) are still the most effective way to control spread.

Vaccines only prevent you, a pseudo-healthy subject from dying or developing serious symptomps, and they potentially reduce the half-life of the virus in your body. From that to controlling spread - we're long long away.

I don't have to like it, but it is the reality. And wishful thinking won't change it.
 

Scouse

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Immuno-compromised people have been dealt a shit hand. But that was the point of lockdowns - to protect the vulnerable until vaccines came along. However, the immunocompromised are vulnerable to a lot more than just covid and I doubt we'll allow the simple existence of these people to change our entire way of life forever.

The alternative is, every single cold, every single sniffle, humanity will reach out for a covid test, and self isolate, for the rest of time.

The social and economic cost of locking up people who aren't at danger from a virus to protect a vanishingly small number of people ad infinitum will not fly.

We've had lockdowns and testing for two years - until the vaccine was made available to all. The immunocompromised will always be so (and the vast majority of them will have had the vaccine - it's absolutely a vanishingly small number of people who cannot take the vaccine) - and whilst that's shit for them, it's also shit if everyone has to spend 5 days locked down every year, at random times, because they've tested for a disease that won't kill them until their 80s - when they've developed all their own co-morbidities.


Nope. Covid will become endemic. We'll ditch testing. We'll carry on as usual.
 
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Ormorof

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Actually of the opposite opinion, now that its been shown governments can lockdown and isolate the population i think they will do it more often

I am not in favour of this but the cat is out of the bag and governments are usually terrible at relinquishing powers they were only meant to have temporarily
 

Scouse

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Whilst I take your second point (and we talked about that early during lockdowns as a "fear" that Governments might try this on) - they can really only justify lockdowns and isolation when large portions of populations are at risk of dying.

You cannot, morally, justify locking down populations when only a tiny minority are at risk of death. And now we've the vaccine, that's what covid is - a risk to a tiny minority.

Governments may try it on, but what'll happen is that huge swathes of the population won't test - or lie if they do test - and carry on anyway.
 

Gwadien

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Actually of the opposite opinion, now that its been shown governments can lockdown and isolate the population i think they will do it more often

I am not in favour of this but the cat is out of the bag and governments are usually terrible at relinquishing powers they were only meant to have temporarily
I think the opposite has proven the case in the UK though.

People didn't take the last round of measures seriously in the slightest, which probably more reflects the Government we have right now (who are saying one thing, but governing in another).
 

Scouse

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To put an evidence-based slant (my rough calc based on the two linked articles) on my reasoning @Ormorof:

26/100,000* deaths in the vaccinated - 0.00026%
850/100,000 deaths in the un-vaccinated - 0.0085%

*age-standardised mortality rate per 100,000 person-years

So, say a population of 70,000,000 = 18,200/year deaths in the vaccinated - vast majority in people with co-morbidities.

Flu kills up to 25,000/year in England and Wales.

We don't vaccinate everyone for flu, and we certainly don't lock down for flu. And with the vaccines - Covid isn't as bad as flu any more.

We cannot justify lockdowns now we've got the vaccine.


The problem is the un-vaccinated. They're going to die in droves. In fact, they make up nearly all of the covid deaths in the young / non-vulnerable now.

But at this point? Fuck 'em. They've been told often enough. Their choice. The whole country shouldn't be beholden to their idiocy.
 

Yoni

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and is it also fuckem for those who can’t be vaccinated? What happened to your rant that every life is important from early on in the pandemic? Or is a cancer survivors life worth less than yours all of a sudden?
 

Aoami

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and is it also fuckem for those who can’t be vaccinated? What happened to your rant that every life is important from early on in the pandemic? Or is a cancer survivors life worth less than yours all of a sudden?
They just have to stay indoors and rot because it's all back to normal now, didnt you hear?
 

Scouse

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and is it also fuckem for those who can’t be vaccinated?
No, of course not. Nobody really thinks like that - it was a turn of phrase - so I apologise that I sounded callous when it came to anti-vaxxers specifically.

However, if the un-vaxxinated continue to be given the information, continue to not believe the statistics, what are you supposed to do? Should we all suffer because a small section of society has made the conscious choice to risk their own life?


For the can't be vaccinated - this is undoubtedly a really horrible situation. It's a vanishingly small amount of the population that actually physically cannot be vaccinated. We're working on antivirals for them (and some are available). And hopefully those antivirals will additionally be effective for the unfortunate few who are immunocompromised.

However, at some point it does become a numbers game. And you cannot (and people will not) lock down societies because of the simple existence of the genetically vulnerable. That's just fantasy thinking.

So whilst every life is important - and it really is - there comes a point where societies balance what are they prepared to do?


For the past two years, to protect the vulnerable the whole globe has locked down. We've restricted our ability to see our loved ones - even on their death beds,. when we knew they were dying alone. We've not been attending the funerals of our friends and family. We've not been able to mix with the people who make our lives worth living for extended periods of time. We've tanked our economies, printed money like it's going out of fashion, devalued currencies.

In the past two years, explicitly to "protect the vulnerable" - we've all sacrificed a lot. And, by and large, without complaint. Personally, I've been completely fastidious in following every single rule - and I've been fully supportive of those hugely unpresecedented outside of war actions.

However, this huge price, that we've all paid, always came with the caveat - "until we have a vaccine".

Well. Now we have a vaccine.


I'm sorry @Yoni. We don't ban all road travel because cars kill people. We haven't shut down all the coal fired power stations despite air pollution being directly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of vulnerable people each year.

We won't continue to lock down and restrict the whole population because a small number of unfortunate people, through no fault of their own, are extra-vulnerable.
 

Wij

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My sense of smell is now totally fucked. Almost everything smells the same. Like metallic farts (and, yes, a bit oniony). I honestly can't tell the difference between my curry, my son's pot noodle, my wife's farts. chicken, crisps and my turds. Only really sweet or fruity things smell different.
 

Bodhi

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My sense of smell is now totally fucked. Almost everything smells the same. Like metallic farts (and, yes, a bit oniony). I honestly can't tell the difference between my curry, my son's pot noodle, my wife's farts. chicken, crisps and my turds. Only really sweet or fruity things smell different.
The wife had that for a month or so after she recovered, all back to normal now.

Means I have to go downstairs for big post kebab shits again, which is annoying.

Oh yeah and Covid as a thing is pretty much over. Everyone's either had it or had the jab, meaning it is no longer novel - it's just a Coronavirus, like one of the 4 that come round every year. Qualifier for that is the assumption Fauci hasn't been playing in his lab again.
 

Wij

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The wife had that for a month or so after she recovered, all back to normal now.

Means I have to go downstairs for big post kebab shits again, which is annoying.
It was months ago I had Covid but this didn't really start until the New Year. Although I have heard other people with the same experience.

Though it could be Parkinson's disease instead :/

Qualifier for that is the assumption Fauci hasn't been playing in his lab again.
Mmm'kay.
 

Raven

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Wife is still knackered from it, spent most of yesterday in bed.

More gaming time, so...
 

dysfunction

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It was months ago I had Covid but this didn't really start until the New Year. Although I have heard other people with the same experience.

Though it could be Parkinson's disease instead :/


Mmm'kay.
My sense of smell is still a bit broken since Oct 2020.
 

Aoami

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My sense of smell is now totally fucked. Almost everything smells the same. Like metallic farts (and, yes, a bit oniony). I honestly can't tell the difference between my curry, my son's pot noodle, my wife's farts. chicken, crisps and my turds. Only really sweet or fruity things smell different.
Been this way for me for nearly two years now :confused:

I just want to smell my rancid turds properly like the good old days
 

MYstIC G

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My sense of smell is now totally fucked. Almost everything smells the same. Like metallic farts (and, yes, a bit oniony). I honestly can't tell the difference between my curry, my son's pot noodle, my wife's farts. chicken, crisps and my turds. Only really sweet or fruity things smell different.
What about Walkers Roast Chicken crisps, they smell so rank they cut through anything
 

Raven

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What about Walkers Roast Chicken crisps, they smell so rank they cut through anything
This is true. It has always baffled me.

Slightly related. A good friend of mine, his farts always smell exactly like Walkers salt and vinegar crisps, and it makes no sense.
 

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