Politics Coronavirus

[DaGaffer]

By current reports death rate is ~5% not 0.2% where did you get that number

He's getting it off one quote which suggests if there's massive underreporting of infection (which there undoubtedly is) then the true death rate will end up being much lower; which in the final analysis will almost certainly be true.

What he pointedly ignores is that Covid-19 is proving to be MUCH more infectious than flu, so even if the disease does end up at a 0.2% death rate, it will be against a vastly larger pool of people and therefore a far larger absolute number of deaths; unless we mitigate against that, which is what we're doing.

This "it's just like the flu" bollocks is the hill @Job has chosen to die on; probably because when everything pans out he can say "see? Just like the flu", while ignoring the fact that such an outcome would be a major success. Then he'll move on to the "well they were all going to die of something anyway" card, because he can't help himself.

As for the immigrants thing; he clearly equated London's high level of immigrants with the spread of the disease (I really cba going through every post) and is now trying to claim it was because he meant they were more likely to be poor, a comment I fed to him.

It's all very tiresome at this point.

 

[Job]

You wont because I didnt..that was you making up stuff I posted , based on 'thats probably what he means'.
I posted an article that showed immigrants were more at risk of a bad outcome.

Which is totally racist and the people collating the figures are obviously Nazis.

You didnt feed me the poor angle, I posted that non immigrants are more likely to live less crowded and not be able to afford to drive or work from home.

 

[Job]

And when its all over and the numbers come in ,we shall see.

So now the WHO have suddenly decided that face masks might help.
Whatthelivingfuck, what have they been doing for the last 50yrs?

How simple would that have been to prove, decades of telling us they are pointless...then 'oh fuck we really should have been wearing them'.

WHO considers changing guidance on wearing face masks

 

[Job]

I know unbelievable isnt it.

 

[Scouse]

And when its all over and the numbers come in ,we shall see.

We shall see what, exactly?

If the global death numbers, for example, are identical to the flu, what would that say @Job?

 

[Bodhi]

It's all immaterial anyway, as the tobacco companies are here to save the day!

British American Tobacco - BAT working on potential COVID-19 vaccine through US bio-tech subsidiary

 

[Yoni]

I really do not believe that telling the world to wear face masks is a good thing right now..... there is a shortage already for healthworkers due to joe public - this will just make the situation worse for everyone.

 

[Yoni]

In Sweden:

Karolinska Uni Hospital been given green light to test CV19 patients with plasma from those who have the antibodies.
Grönt ljus för försök med blodplasma till coronasmittade
Coronasmittade kan nu behandlas med blodplasma från tidigare sjuka, efter att svenska forskare fått grönt ljus att använda metoden.

Det är ett forskningsprojekt på Karolinska universitetssjukhuset som vill pröva att ge patienter blodplasma i ett försök att bota covid-19. Metoden får nu användas efter att Etikprövningsmyndigheten godkänt den, rapporterar TV4 Nyheterna.

Metoden har prövats tidigare, bland annat vid utbrotten av sars och mers, och har visat att sjukdomarna kan få ett mildare förlopp. Metoden användes också redan för hundra år sedan under den så kallade spanska sjukan.

Rön från Kina visar att antikroppar i plasman har förbättrat tillståndet för ett fåtal patienter. Studien har publicerats i den amerikanska tidskriften Journal of the American Medical Association (Jama).

I den kommande studien på Karolinska universitetssjukhuset har rekryteringen av tidigare sjuka som kan bli blodgivare redan påbörjats. Nästa vecka kommer först 10 och sedan ytterligare 20 frivilliga som smittats att få deras blodplasma.

– Det är som en engångsbehandling. Under en akut fas där man behöver få hjälp att slåss mot infektionen så är det som att man kan få en liten puff från någon annan som lyckats få bukt med infektionen, säger Joakim Dillner till TV4 Nyheterna.

 

[Bodhi]

Tried to access the Der Spiegel link below, but got presented with a very scary looking German paywall. However, looks like the Germans are moving away from the approach the UK MSM are screaming for us to do:


View: https://twitter.com/Alichat66/status/1245636337841000449?s=20

 

[Scouse]

I know unbelievable isnt it.

From your article:

The WHO is debating that tomorrow to understand if there is evidence that would call for a change

And, @Job...

We shall see what, exactly?

If the global death numbers, for example, are identical to the flu, what would that say @Job?

???

 

[Job]

We shall see what, exactly?

If the global death numbers, for example, are identical to the flu, what would that say @Job?

Obviously they are intertwined, as Covid is a flu...its a global flu pandemic ...it should replace a good chunk of the deaths from seasonal flu.

With all these drastic measures and possible incoming vaccine we might actually see a big drop in flu deaths.

 

[Job]

Tried to access the Der Spiegel link below, but got presented with a very scary looking German paywall. However, looks like the Germans are moving away from the approach the UK MSM are screaming for us to do:


View: https://twitter.com/Alichat66/status/1245636337841000449?s=20

The legal terms and conditions for that site are epic.
Im sure theres shorter novels out there.

 

[Job]

So far not a single death in our area of 275K , which Ive just jinxed.

 

[Scouse]

Gibberish @Job.

you type gibberish.
Btw:

Covid is a flu...

No. Covid is caused by a coronavirus, of which there are hundreds.

You wouldn't call SARS flu (unless you are a retard) - despite it being a coronavirus.


Either way - you didn't answer the question.

 

[Job]

You cant just call it gibberish.

I can just say it back.
Supergibberish

 

[Yoni]

I am wondering whether the VI has mistaken the forums for a twitter feed ^^

 

[Job]

48 thousand deaths 4 months in, its going to have seriously ramp it up to beat the seasonal flu..only 3-4 months left in the sweet spot...so 600 thousand people are going to have to die to equal the flu.

Its doable I suppose...I mean the flus been doing it without even making the back page of the Beano.

 

[Scouse]

Actually. Can we ban this cunt troll?

Nobody can be that thick.

 

[Bodhi]

Corona Challenge: Germany Reaching the Upper Limit of Testing Capacity - DER SPIEGEL - International

Found the English version - interesting read.

 

[Scouse]

Ideally we would be testing aggressively throughout Germany," says Hendrik Streeck, director of virology at the University of Bonn. "We see in South Korea that this is the best strategy." There, comprehensive testing has made it possible to find virtually every infected person and separate them from healthy ones. "This enabled them to minimize the chains of infection very quickly," says Streeck. "The epidemic was contained there before it broke out."

Ideally, then, testing for all.

Whodathunk that good data = ability to take correct action

Shame no capacity here.

 

[Bodhi]

Ideally, then, testing for all.

Whodathunk that good data = ability to take correct action

Shame no capacity here.

No capacity in Germany for it either though - and if they are struggling, I can see why we aren't rolling it out.

 

[Scouse]

They're still streets ahead of us. We're not even testing NHS staff properly.

It's like we're a 3rd world country.

 

[Deebs]

Actually. Can we ban this cunt troll?

Nobody can be that thick.

He has gone on a 30 day holiday.

 

[Deebs]

They're still streets ahead of us. We're not even testing NHS staff properly.

It's like we're a 3rd world country.

Ok let me get this right:

1. Test to see if I have Covid-19. That is just like an MOT and is a point in time snapshot. So am I clear today, infected tomorrow and infects others around me. Does nothing to stop the spread.
2. Test to see if I have HAD Covid-19. This is much more effective as it shows I have antibodies and can move freely and get back to work. Helps stop the spread.

I would rather they spend more time on the latter though I would prioritise health/care workers in any option.

Again the biggest issue is that people are not practising proper social distancing for whatever reason. The virus is spread by humans to humans. Nullify that and you kill the spread. Not sure the country would tolerate a total lockdown as I am sure you would be the first to shout about civil liberties being stripped if we had the Miltary/Police out enforcing strict curfews.

 

[caLLous]

Ok let me get this right:

1. Test to see if I have Covid-19. That is just like an MOT and is a point in time snapshot. So am I clear today, infected tomorrow and infects others around me. Does nothing to stop the spread.
2. Test to see if I have HAD Covid-19. This is much more effective as it shows I have antibodies and can move freely and get back to work. Helps stop the spread.

I would rather they spend more time on the latter though I would prioritise health/care workers in any option.

Again the biggest issue is that people are not practising proper social distancing for whatever reason. The virus is spread by humans to humans. Nullify that and you kill the spread. Not sure the country would tolerate a total lockdown as I am sure you would be the first to shout about civil liberties being stripped if we had the Miltary/Police out enforcing strict curfews.

The first option is more important right now (like the article says, find everybody who has it and keep them away from those who don't = stopping the spread), the second is more important once we're over the hill and going forward. We don't even know that people can't get re-infected yet.

 

[Deebs]

The first option is more important right now (like the article says, find everybody who has it and keep them away from those who don't = stopping the spread), the second is more important once we're over the hill and going forward. We don't even know that people can't get re-infected yet.

The first option does not stop the spread. I get tested today, given the all clear tomorrow, get infected the day after, infect others thinking I am in the all clear. How does this stop the spread?

 

[caLLous]

Ok not stop but severely slow down...

"We see in South Korea that this is the best strategy." There, comprehensive testing has made it possible to find virtually every infected person and separate them from healthy ones. "This enabled them to minimize the chains of infection very quickly," says Streeck. "The epidemic was contained there before it broke out."

That horse has probably bolted by now tbh.

 

[Deebs]

Ok not stop but severely slow down...
That horse has probably bolted by now tbh.

Now that I agree with hence why I said it is time to up the antibody tests not the have I got it right now tests. Problem is everyone is after the same thing. I am not sure if the UK has the equivalent of a Defense Protection Act like the USA but I want to see some changes made in law after this:

1. A committee made up of members from the Government, independant scientific advisors, members of advisory and manufacturing boards to form a committee with a democratic voting process to push things through regardless of their political alignment. Not sure if this is possible but I hope you understand what I am thinking. Keep it small and lean but with an odd number to ensure a vote is never held in limbo.
2. An act which can be invoked in the event of a national crisis to compel companies to perform work based upon the requirements of point 1 above.

I get that our current Government could have done things differently but I am under no illusion that no matter what party was in power we would be suffering the same issues. Having a diverse committee makes it so the current Government cannot do what it thinks is best without a massive influence by others or being overridden.

Maybe I am just talking bollocks.

 

[Scouse]

@Deebs - we're not testing pre OR post OR NHS staff properly.

Testing in the UK is pretty much a fantasy scenario atm, which is the worst of all worlds.

Unlike South Korea, who nailed it.


Social distancing is largely being followed as far as I'm aware. But are we going to keep that up until the Autumn or beyond, like government reports have stated, or should we lock people down hard, test and contact-trace?

Yes, social distancing will work short term. But there will be no long-term substitute to proper testing.

Or we'll fail, lots will die... IMO.

 

[Scouse]

The first option does not stop the spread. I get tested today, given the all clear tomorrow, get infected the day after, infect others thinking I am in the all clear. How does this stop the spread?

1) Nobody is getting tested.
2) If you were, and you were clear, you still stay indoors.

What, are you hugging everyone you meet? Or are you keeping 2m from any passerby, keeping your contact points to a minimum and ensuring you wash your hands after shopping?