Politics Coronavirus

[Scouse]

Study reveals extent of Covid vaccine side-effects

It found no serious side effects in tens of thousands vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech jab by the NHS.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Raven]

Nutters will still refuse it though.

 

[Scouse]

Quick! Open the schools!!

 

[Tay]

A somewhat hyperbolic headline but hey ...viruii dont evolve to avoid vaccines, they mutate into strains that perhaps the vaccines are simply not as effective against, its a key point.

Signs that SARS-CoV-2 is evolving to avoid immune responses

Mutations are changing, but not eliminating, the antibody response to the virus.

arstechnica.com

I do find the whole thing amusing when they say "new variants appear to be everywhere" as if its a WTF moment. When you have millions and millions of people infected, the chance of mutations goes up significantly.

Stop the spread, stop the mutations

 

[Tay]

The 'magic' has started: early data shows Israel's vaccination campaign is working

It took longer than expected but there is now 'real world' evidence to show the Pfizer jab is both saving lives and reducing infections

www.telegraph.co.uk

Positive signs - Now if the AZ vaccines is almost as good ^^

 

[Moriath]

Formby beach rave: Arrests after illegal party at National Trust site

Police were called after reports of loud music as about 100 turned up at the popular Formby beach.

www.bbc.co.uk

i guess @Job has been bored so he made a rave

 

[Scouse]

Covid: South Africa halts AstraZeneca vaccine rollout over new variant

A study of the vaccine's efficacy against the South Africa variant shows "disappointing" results.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Embattle]

Got a phone call today, my vaccination is on Thursday.

 

[Scouse]

 

[Scouse]

Sorry @Moriath - you're right. It's bullshit that it's 100,000 deaths. It's actually a hundred and sixteen thousand and counting.


So other than that, which bit is bullshit, you Tory apologist?

 

[Moriath]

Sorry @Moriath - you're right. It's bullshit that it's 100,000 deaths. It's actually a hundred and sixteen thousand and counting.


So other than that, which bit is bullshit, you Tory apologist?

Just a shit post from yr broken record. Didnt say the numbers were wrong.

 

[Scouse]

Just a shit post from yr broken record. Didnt say the numbers were wrong.

Why does the truth offend you so?

 

[Moriath]

View: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364

 

[Moriath]

Why does the truth offend you so?

Not offended. Just so little was known abut the virus when that statement was made. We know so much more now. We had a chance to lock everything down like nz. But we rely on imports much more than they do.
i am just wondering what milage you get about bringing it up every week?

its as if you think its news to everyone on this forum and we are goldfish and need to be reminded because we have memory issues.

 

[Gwadien]

Not offended. Just so little was known abut the virus when that statement was made. We know so much more now. We had a chance to lock everything down like nz. But we rely on imports much more than they do.
i am just wondering what milage you get about bringing it up every week?

its as if you think its news to everyone on this forum and we are goldfish and need to be reminded because we have memory issues.

Wow you are offended.

It's clearly got fuck all with imports (lol wat?)

It's to do with our Government thinking they can control a pandemic in order to reduce the impact on the economy and it went horribly wrong whereas NZ and AUS prioritised saving lives.

At least we have a reduced pension bill ammirite?

 

[Scouse]

I keep bringing it up because people keep spouting this sort of apologist shit:

Just so little was known abut the virus when that statement was made.

That statement was a direct management performance target.

Other countries with similar situations to ours have beaten that target and they had the same level of knowledge as us.

Knowledge of the virus wasn't important in hitting that target - good management action was the deciding factor.

So the Tories have failed against their own target - and you keep apologising for them. And will likely still vote for the same people who have proven themselves incompetent.

So I'm going to keep posting that message - because it's a message directed at people like you. People for whom that very simple penny still hasn't dropped.

 

[Moriath]

Still not offended. Just bored of the same arguements over and over

 

[Bodhi]

I keep bringing it up because people keep spouting this sort of apologist shit:
That statement was a direct management performance target.

Other countries with similar situations to ours have beaten that target and they had the same level of knowledge as us.

Knowledge of the virus wasn't important in hitting that target - good management action was the deciding factor.

So the Tories have failed against their own target - and you keep apologising for them. And will likely still vote for the same people who have proven themselves incompetent.

So I'm going to keep posting that message - because it's a message directed at people like you. People for whom that very simple penny still hasn't dropped.

Oooh hey up @Moriath you can tell @Scouse is trying to make a point, he's got the formatting buttons out!

It's an entirely bollocks point of course, as he seems to be suggesting the only thing which feeds into the 'Rona death rate is Government action (or inaction), without really considering there is much more than that in play.

Let's try a hypothetical situation, let's go back to March and handle the pandemic the same way we did in 1958, 1969 and 2009 - i.e Governments did very little, and the pandemic took it's course naturally. Do you honestly think the pandemic would have hit every country in the same way? We already know from previous pandemics it probably wouldn't (compare New Zealand's outcomes in 1918 to ours for a clue) and there are far more factors in play, such as climate, population age/health, levels of obesity, previous exposure to other Coronaviruses (strange how all the countries that got hammered by SARS in 2003 had decent outcomes this time round), Vitamin D levels, how old folks homes operate, infection control in hospitals etc etc.

So if you look at the UK, with it's perfect winter climate for respiratory illnesses, ageing and fat population, low Vitamin D levels in winter and very little previous exposure to CV's (SARS and MERS didn't really make it here, and the other endemic Hcovs such as OC43 aren't hugely prevalent here, only making up to around 20% of common colds), it is hardly surprising that we got battered in all honesty. However the only Government failings I can really pin on our lot are the emptying of hospitals into care homes and our ongoing inability to stop infection spreading round hospitals. Oh, and locking done cos that's wot China did. We've effectively put the most vulnerable at the most risk, whilst asking healthy people to either hide or bring them deliveries whilst they are hiding.

 

[dysfunction]

Oooh hey up @Moriath you can tell @Scouse is trying to make a point, he's got the formatting buttons out!

It's an entirely bollocks point of course, as he seems to be suggesting the only thing which feeds into the 'Rona death rate is Government action (or inaction), without really considering there is much more than that in play.

Let's try a hypothetical situation, let's go back to March and handle the pandemic the same way we did in 1958, 1969 and 2009 - i.e Governments did very little, and the pandemic took it's course naturally. Do you honestly think the pandemic would have hit every country in the same way? We already know from previous pandemics it probably wouldn't (compare New Zealand's outcomes in 1918 to ours for a clue) and there are far more factors in play, such as climate, population age/health, levels of obesity, previous exposure to other Coronaviruses (strange how all the countries that got hammered by SARS in 2003 had decent outcomes this time round), Vitamin D levels, how old folks homes operate, infection control in hospitals etc etc.

So if you look at the UK, with it's perfect winter climate for respiratory illnesses, ageing and fat population, low Vitamin D levels in winter and very little previous exposure to CV's (SARS and MERS didn't really make it here, and the other endemic Hcovs such as OC43 aren't hugely prevalent here, only making up to around 20% of common colds), it is hardly surprising that we got battered in all honesty. However the only Government failings I can really pin on our lot are the emptying of hospitals into care homes and our ongoing inability to stop infection spreading round hospitals. Oh, and locking done cos that's wot China did. We've effectively put the most vulnerable at the most risk, whilst asking healthy people to either hide or bring them deliveries whilst they are hiding.

If we did it that way more people would have died. So great plan. not
And the NHS would be in tatters

 

[Raven]

Not offended. Just so little was known abut the virus when that statement was made. We know so much more now. We had a chance to lock everything down like nz. But we rely on imports much more than they do.
i am just wondering what milage you get about bringing it up every week?

its as if you think its news to everyone on this forum and we are goldfish and need to be reminded because we have memory issues.

People going on holibobs here there and everywhere for months into the virus is not importing/exporting, it is twats being twats because they are allowed to be by government. Also, as said in the EU thread, very little actual people go through ports with produce in the greater scheme of things, and even when they do, they sit in a truck while someone unloads.

Not meaning to labour the point but the whole thing has been a fuck up from the start, an explicit Tory fuck up...except for the vaccine ofc, but that was just a lucky scatter gun.

 

[Scouse]

Not meaning to labour the point but the whole thing has been a fuck up from the start, an explicit Tory fuck up...except for the vaccine ofc, but that was just a lucky scatter gun.

This. Measurably. 100%.

 

[Bodhi]

If we did it that way more people would have died. So great plan. not
And the NHS would be in tatters

We'd probably have had slightly more COVID deaths, but lots less Excess Death looking at countries which did it that way, however that wasn't the point of what I posted.

 

[Bodhi]

We had a chance to lock everything down like nz.

We REALLY didn't. New Zealand were playing COVID on easy, being a remote island in the Pacific getting hit by a Respiratory Virus in summer.

We would also probably have had to lockdown in January, even February would have been too late. Don't recall anyone suggesting it at that point? I do remember the Orange Man being called a racist for closing the borders to China, so um yeah.

 

[Bodhi]

Good info for keen students of the immune system, there was a slide from the AstraZenica/Fucking Prawns presentation which doesn't seem to have got much attention, but is pretty damned good news:

Looks like the other part of the immune system that we dare not discuss (T-cells) still show good response even to the new scary FuckingPrawnovirus - which is so scary it's currently vanishing from South Africa itself with no real restrictions.

Considering we've found good T-Cell response in SARS 1 patients 17 years later, this is incredibly promising news.

 

[dysfunction]

We'd probably have had slightly more COVID deaths, but lots less Excess Death looking at countries which did it that way, however that wasn't the point of what I posted.

I reckon we would have had loads of extra deaths for everything as the NHS would have collapsed.
Also run the additional risk of more variants popping up.

 

[Bodhi]

I reckon we would have had loads of extra deaths for everything as the NHS would have collapsed.
Also run the additional risk of more variants popping up.

Not really, as during the first wave in London, it was tough but the NHS wasn't even close to collapse at that point and had more capacity than they do now, along with less people presenting late with other ailments needing more attention.

Worth looking into where the Kent variant came from as well, as it was nothing to do with community spread. All signs seem to point to it originating in an immunocompromised patient being pumped full of antibodies in hospital, from where it then escaped - pointing back to infection control again.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

 

[dysfunction]

Not really, as during the first wave in London, it was tough but the NHS wasn't even close to collapse at that point and had more capacity than they do now, along with less people presenting late with other ailments needing more attention.

Worth looking into where the Kent variant came from as well, as it was nothing to do with community spread. All signs seem to point to it originating in an immunocompromised patient being pumped full of antibodies in hospital, from where it then escaped - pointing back to infection control again.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

But if you look at the second wave I think you will find a different story.

Exclusive: London will be overwhelmed by covid in a fortnight says leaked NHS England briefing

London's hospitals are less than two weeks from being overwhelmed by covid even under the 'best' case scenario, according to an official briefing given to the capital's most senior doctors this afternoon.

www.hsj.co.uk

Exclusive: Army medics to work in London hospitals overwhelmed with coronavirus

It comes as thousands of cancer sufferers are waiting in limbo for treatment

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Scouse]

We'd probably have had slightly more COVID deaths, but lots less Excess Death looking at countries which did it that way

Yeah. Calling bullshit on that.

You've been kind of off on all of your ready-rekons all year m8. And when the evidence shows you otherwise you go quiet on it and move on to the next thing.

Covid deaths are driving excess deaths. Other sources of excess death may be personally painful but on a population level it's clear they cannot be the focus as in absolute numbers they're a tiny fraction of the larger issue.

Not saying we shouldn't do anything with them - but nothing should be done that takes priority from treating/stopping covid as that's far and away the number 1 risk.

 

[Gwadien]

Yeah. Calling bullshit on that.

You've been kind of off on all of your ready-rekons all year m8. And when the evidence shows you otherwise you go quiet on it and move on to the next thing.

Covid deaths are driving excess deaths. Other sources of excess death may be personally painful but on a population level it's clear they cannot be the focus as in absolute numbers they're a tiny fraction of the larger issue.

Not saying we shouldn't do anything with them - but nothing should be done that takes priority from treating/stopping covid as that's far and away the number 1 risk.

We have done something about it, our overlords appointed a TOWIE doctor as 'young persons mental health ambassasdor'

We've fixed it, npnpnp.

 

[Bodhi]

But if you look at the second wave I think you will find a different story.

Exclusive: London will be overwhelmed by covid in a fortnight says leaked NHS England briefing

London's hospitals are less than two weeks from being overwhelmed by covid even under the 'best' case scenario, according to an official briefing given to the capital's most senior doctors this afternoon.

www.hsj.co.uk

Exclusive: Army medics to work in London hospitals overwhelmed with coronavirus

It comes as thousands of cancer sufferers are waiting in limbo for treatment

www.telegraph.co.uk

Cool story bro. I was talking about the first wave.