Politics Coronavirus

Yoni

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I don't really think you can separate economic activity and people's well being tbh.
I believe this to be true at this time in history. Our reasons for not travelling at the moment for sure are blurry - on one hand I want to support the service industries on the other Europe is hotting up again and by October other countries may decide to lockdown again - we have deferred our vacation from May, we can wait another 12 months.
 

Scouse

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I don't really think you can separate economic activity and people's well being tbh.
Depends on the type of economic activity.

Some (many would argue most, under the current system) is tantamount to self-harm.
 

Scouse

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North Wales is great for a week or two. Beaches, mountains, lakes, rivers, what more do you want. If you need your fix of trashy then rhyl is always there also haha
Agree with all but the Rhyl bit.

Why?!!!! Would be my response
 

Moriath

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Agree with all but the Rhyl bit.

Why?!!!! Would be my response
I went there like 30 years ago and it seemed to be the great yarmouth of the welsh north coast. I imagine its changed since then. And my impression may be out of date.
 

Moriath

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Depends on the type of economic activity.

Some (many would argue most, under the current system) is tantamount to self-harm.
We have to reprioritise as a race. Exisiting, having enough food and water and shelter along with medical resources, bb, and electricity are core to our needs. Yes a lot of economic activity has moved to pleasure pursuits. Holidays, etc. Those need to be realigned in the current environment to local /national travel rather than international. Also i think countries should be more self sufficient where possible. Putting man power into provisions of the above rather than relying on a strong service industry.
 

SilverHood

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We have to reprioritise as a race. Exisiting, having enough food and water and shelter along with medical resources, bb, and electricity are core to our needs. Yes a lot of economic activity has moved to pleasure pursuits. Holidays, etc. Those need to be realigned in the current environment to local /national travel rather than international. Also i think countries should be more self sufficient where possible. Putting man power into provisions of the above rather than relying on a strong service industry.
I think it needs to go even further: Each country will need to do a detailed study of the minimum requirements to survive independently long term (20+ years), and then that needs to be the baseline goal, and once reached, we set the goal at 20-30% above that. A huge de-globalisation exercise. Some countries will struggle due to critical reliance on commodities from abroad (Germany and their dependency on Russian gas, etc). Those countries should seriously focus on domestic sources of alternative energy or materials that are required to run their economy.
 

Job

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Its a pandemic..it will pass, we will teturn to normal.

The only after effects will be habitual mask wearers...screens in shops and asked to leave if you sneeze.
 

Raven

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Yes, job, we will teturn(sic) to normal, eventually.

But, shall we have a go at minimising the deaths a bit...yeah?

I mean, are you actually that thick?

Actually, don't bother.
 
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SilverHood

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Its a pandemic..it will pass, we will teturn to normal.

The only after effects will be habitual mask wearers...screens in shops and asked to leave if you sneeze.
I don't think we will ever go back to normal. If we go back over the last 20 years, we've had:
2003 - SARS
2009 - H1N1
2012 - MERS
2014 - Ebola
2016 - Zika virus
2019 - Covid-19

Each affected parts of the world differently, but with the exception of Covid-19, none of them were world-wide pandemics. It will not end there, there will be others. If we are lucky, they will be less severe than Covid-19. But what if that's not the case? We know the current systemic weaknesses, because we are living with the consequences of them right now. It would be foolish to not do something about them once we recover, before the next pandemic hits us.
 

Raven

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This certainly isn't the first pandemic and certainly wont be the last. We, as a global society, need to learn from it.
 

BloodOmen

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This certainly isn't the first pandemic and certainly wont be the last. We, as a global society, need to learn from it.
Not the first but definitely the first in recent times to show how woefully unprepared we were for it.

Our governments should hang their heads in shame for the initial responses, they were utterly inept.
 

BloodOmen

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Boris is now worrying about a second wave after a 28% rise in Corona cases since the start of July... Welp, you try and copy America and the fucking obvious will happen. Capitalism will be humanities downfall.
 

dysfunction

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I don't think we will ever go back to normal. If we go back over the last 20 years, we've had:
2003 - SARS
2009 - H1N1
2012 - MERS
2014 - Ebola
2016 - Zika virus
2019 - Covid-19

Each affected parts of the world differently, but with the exception of Covid-19, none of them were world-wide pandemics. It will not end there, there will be others. If we are lucky, they will be less severe than Covid-19. But what if that's not the case? We know the current systemic weaknesses, because we are living with the consequences of them right now. It would be foolish to not do something about them once we recover, before the next pandemic hits us.
They also got on top of all of those relatively quickly apart from Covid-19 which is spreading rapidly and very widely.
 

Yoni

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If I am honest and after doing a shit load of analysis for the company and my employees this morning on infection rates in Europe compared to only a few weeks ago there is a lot of unecessary hysteria. Whether everyone likes it or not no government in any country has a bottomless pit of money to support its citizens so those that can work need to work and spend money to support the economies - this means opening up, seeing what works and adjusting sometimes at very short notice - I do not believe you can have a go at a government for closing very quickly if they see their preivous action did not work correctly - I would be more concerned if they took no action at all....

What I find interesting is that Sweden who as you all know did not close are not seeing the increase in infections of other european countries but they are steadily reducing - still the most interesting statistic for me is the number in ICU with CV19 - infection levels are very muddled right now with countries increasing testing at a very quick rate - the more people you test the more poeple will be found with the virus (this was evidenced in June when Sweden opened its testing policy up however ICU admissions continued to decline (currently there are 295 people in hospital in Sweden with CV19 and 49 are in ICU - the highest day for infections was 24th June with c.1.8k - in theory a few weeks later so mid July we should have seen an increase in deaths the lats peak was 17th June with 111). Infection rates in Sweden are still quite high vs other european countries however currently there is no increase in hospitalisations or ICU admissions.

America is a different story they had been testsing a lot since quite early on so there is not the same pattern the increase is twofold - they have indeed increased testing again so they will find more people with the virus however there is also a higher level from increased spread - large groups of people being in the same place (riots and rallies) - sadly this is being seen in increased deaths. Addtionally there are the factors that testing results are taking 7 days (in Sweden it is 24 hours) and that some of the indiviudal states were relatively untouched when New York was hit so are really experiencing the virus on a larger scale for the first time.

I am trying to find a good source that gathers all ICU & covid hospitalisation information from accross Europe in one place as this is the statistic that is most indicative of a situation.
 

Job

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So my mothers friend goes back to hospital to see a consultant who announces you havent got covid, they are just false results...they retest him twice....negative...then positive.
The consultant was just rolling his eyes....we just go on symptoms, the tests are useless.

Go home...get in touch if you develop a fever.

I really do believe thats where we are at.
 

Bodhi

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If I am honest and after doing a shit load of analysis for the company and my employees this morning on infection rates in Europe compared to only a few weeks ago there is a lot of unecessary hysteria. Whether everyone likes it or not no government in any country has a bottomless pit of money to support its citizens so those that can work need to work and spend money to support the economies - this means opening up, seeing what works and adjusting sometimes at very short notice - I do not believe you can have a go at a government for closing very quickly if they see their preivous action did not work correctly - I would be more concerned if they took no action at all....

What I find interesting is that Sweden who as you all know did not close are not seeing the increase in infections of other european countries but they are steadily reducing - still the most interesting statistic for me is the number in ICU with CV19 - infection levels are very muddled right now with countries increasing testing at a very quick rate - the more people you test the more poeple will be found with the virus (this was evidenced in June when Sweden opened its testing policy up however ICU admissions continued to decline (currently there are 295 people in hospital in Sweden with CV19 and 49 are in ICU - the highest day for infections was 24th June with c.1.8k - in theory a few weeks later so mid July we should have seen an increase in deaths the lats peak was 17th June with 111). Infection rates in Sweden are still quite high vs other european countries however currently there is no increase in hospitalisations or ICU admissions.

America is a different story they had been testsing a lot since quite early on so there is not the same pattern the increase is twofold - they have indeed increased testing again so they will find more people with the virus however there is also a higher level from increased spread - large groups of people being in the same place (riots and rallies) - sadly this is being seen in increased deaths. Addtionally there are the factors that testing results are taking 7 days (in Sweden it is 24 hours) and that some of the indiviudal states were relatively untouched when New York was hit so are really experiencing the virus on a larger scale for the first time.

I am trying to find a good source that gathers all ICU & covid hospitalisation information from accross Europe in one place as this is the statistic that is most indicative of a situation.
Gotta say fair play to Sweden - going by some of the "logic" in this thread it should be an enormous morgue right now with the lack of lockdowns (which don't work) and masks (ditto), however it seems to be burning out there similar to other countries which did try the full trial of communism. In fact it's been quite a sad indictment of certain sorts salivating whenever bad news comes out of Sweden, guess people dying is OK as long as people are proved right.

The US is a completely different case - we cannot treat the US as one big country in epidemiological terms - it's more of a continent, and the North and South are basically going through two different epidemics. The North got hammered in winter but is mostly burning out now, the South have a much flatter peak over Summer as everyone heads inside to the air conditioning. Good news is that Southern States seem to be past that peak now in terms of infections and hospitalisations. It's almost as if this is a fairly typical seasonal respiratory virus!
 

Yoni

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I dont agree entirely - I believe that lockdown was necessary for some countries to ensure that their health system did not get overloaded and to control the disease (that was clearly out of control in some areas) so that the burden on the health service was at a reasonable level. I do think that some countries unecessarily closed local activities down and have put millions out of work due their political decision making rather than listening to experts which in itself will lead to a death count which will remain unknown because people generally only worry about tomorrow not the impact over several years.

Masks are becoming a topic in Sweden and I believe that if there is enough scientific proof to satisfy the experts in Sweden we will also be required to wear them, however at the moment the use of public transport is around where it was in April as those thave can work from home do and leave it for those who absolutely need it to get to work. However we have enough cloth masks and filters for them to last a good few months if wearing them becomes a necessity here and I will probably wear on should we be allowed to the office on public transport again not just due to cv19 but because I have had noro in Sweden and it was horrible and I will do anything not to get that again.

The good thing in Sweden is that they have taken action on the issues with care homes, they are currently preparing for Winter which here is already a torrid time for deaths (flu, noro and now CV19) - I believe that flu jabs will be available as always for all this year however the timing of a flu jab is important as they are valid for only a few months (so end of November is the best time). It will also be interesting to see whether CV19 works with other illnesses or if it competes with as some do.

There is an uplift in infections expected in the Autumn but everyone I interact with has changed their behavoiur in the last year and will keep the new behaviours they have taken on board for the forseeable future - I have to assume as the advise here is being translated in to many many different languages that everyone understands what they need to do which would be awesome as Swedens powers to rapidly close things down have now been removed again as they were not used.
 

Moriath

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So my mothers friend goes back to hospital to see a consultant who announces you havent got covid, they are just false results...they retest him twice....negative...then positive.
The consultant was just rolling his eyes....we just go on symptoms, the tests are useless.

Go home...get in touch if you develop a fever.

I really do believe thats where we are at.
Which is why we have quarantine and are not able to rely on tests at airports etc.
 

Raven

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Visited an Amazon site today through work, they are proper switched on, stand here, stand there, walk through this (an automatic temp sensor, like a gate) They have spent a huge amount on covid prevention. Quite surreal gaining entry.
 

Moriath

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Visited an Amazon site today through work, they are proper switched on, stand here, stand there, walk through this (an automatic temp sensor, like a gate) They have spent a huge amount on covid prevention. Quite surreal gaining entry.
But think about it. Most of it was already their controlling the pickers and packers. Minus the virus part they tracked and trace all of them to ensure compliance and speed.
 

Raven

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I dunno, it was just a distribution hub but everyone seemed pretty chilled, lots of facilities too, their canteen was pretty good, office space good, warehouse was roomy and well ventilated and they are very keen on health and safety, part of the reason I was there, we build and maintain their loading bays.

Amazon are piling lots of money into building ever smaller distribution sites and larger storage sites, moving goods around depending on need, essentially reading demand via AI, often predictively.

They get a lot of stick for paying a small amount of tax but atm they are genuinely ploughing money into expansion, so profit is reasonably low, they pay the exact amount of tax that they are obliged to. No company or person would pay more than they are obliged to.

I was there for data management, they are very keen on efficiency, knowing what is happening and when and why, I guess that is often seen as being overly analytical, tracking picking and packing etc but essential for movement of goods.

You get your random item from Amazon delivered next day for a reason :)

They're doing food next! :)
 

Moriath

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I dunno, it was just a distribution hub but everyone seemed pretty chilled, lots of facilities too, their canteen was pretty good, office space good, warehouse was roomy and well ventilated and they are very keen on health and safety, part of the reason I was there, we build and maintain their loading bays.

Amazon are piling lots of money into building ever smaller distribution sites and larger storage sites, moving goods around depending on need, essentially reading demand via AI, often predictively.

They get a lot of stick for paying a small amount of tax but atm they are genuinely ploughing money into expansion, so profit is reasonably low, they pay the exact amount of tax that they are obliged to. No company or person would pay more than they are obliged to.

I was there for data management, they are very keen on efficiency, knowing what is happening and when and why, I guess that is often seen as being overly analytical, tracking picking and packing etc but essential for movement of goods.

You get your random item from Amazon delivered next day for a reason :)

They're doing food next! :)
They are already doing food with pantry. No one said these companys were paying less than they had to. Its the tax laws that are behind.
and yes they would have to do all that or be crucified. I have seen the pickers on tv with their tracking and stuff. You dont get rich on people being slow.

yes we get deliveries fast for a reason. And i really dont care about the reasons above if i dont have to go to the highstreet at the moment. But thats not to say they have too much global power
 

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