complete shambles

CorNokZ

Currently a stay at home dad
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Messages
19,779
Hmm.. Killing the disabled? Reminds me of the good ol' 40's
 

Lamp

Gold Star Holder!!
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
22,950
The thing is, we're looking at things from an outside perspective, none of us have disabled children, and we're not being tormented every day by scumbags. There's no excuse IMO to take the life of your own child, none whatsoever, and to take your own life when your child is still alive is just wrong. Its a catastrophic failure of the police & social services IMO.
 

soze

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
12,508
but if you read the thread soze, the victims have video recorded evidence. it showed youths slashing her tyres and all sorts.

Yeah what i was trying to get at (badly) was in my experience they did change their ways after seeing video evidence. All i can guess is that the video was not clear enough for use in court
 

TdC

Trem's hunky sex love muffin
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
30,801
<MOD> let's not get too hot under the collar people. this is a tough subject to argue, but argue away by all means. still, try to keep it civil would you. </MOD>
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
/agree with Gohan

Everyone jumps on the flaming bandwagon.. What Gohan said is that no one should take that kind of abuse, but actually setting yourself and your child on fire is just not the way out

people do all kinds of things in despair. im guessing they dont think as rationally as you are doing right now.
 

Sparx

Cheeky Fucknugget
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
8,059
Gohan you ever suffered from depression? i mean real clinical depression and not just oh my god ive been dumped kind of depression?

If you say yes your a God damn bullshitter. Ive had depression and i can tell you, you dont think rationally at all, i feel very sorry for this woman that she thought the only and best way out of 10 years of abuse was to end her life. Her Doctors/social/police should have done something to stop this
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
45,210
Well, my discussions skills don't look that bad now do they? Hmmmm? :p

On topic though;

I agree partly with gohan, as i don't think this was anywhere near a good solution. I don't feel anything for the woman, i rarely do for strangers, but i can see how she ended up in this.

Not going to get into the whole "kids or not" thing that is involved in this, as it's rather too much OT.

I do think there would've been some other options. 10 years is a long time to not be able to do anything. Think back 10 years, do you think you could've scrounged up enough to move? Even on welfare? Just seems unimaginable that there was nothing she could've done.

So, while i can see how this happened, i can't say i'm convinced that it's entirely so clear cut that she is without blame.

But that's humanity for ya; if a kid shoots at a school, we can't just blame the kid and be done with it, we have to find a reason to that evergnawing question "WHY OH GOD WHY!!!" ;)
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
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its not about blaming, unless you class her mental state as something which can be blamed.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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its not about blaming, unless you class her mental state as something which can be blamed.

When people say "police and etc should've done something", "it's this and that", it's about blame.

it's always about blame, people need it so that there's something else that's wrong and to feel that "No, our world is fine! This is just a weird event."
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
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Messages
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so you do you agree or disagree thast the police should of done something? considering all the facts, including that she requested help multiple times a year.

unless the police protect the public, there is literally no point in having them.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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so you do you agree or disagree thast the police should of done something? considering all the facts, including that she requested help multiple times a year.

unless the police protect the public, there is literally no point in having them.

Ofcourse they should've, i've stated that before on this thread, but like i said, she's most likely not without blame either.

About police being useless if they can't protect, they can't protect EVERY thing. Ofcourse not, that would require a lot mroe resources.

So blame the funding, not the police.
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
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im not sure i agree.
i doubt someone in her position would think to her self "im going to do as little as possible". i believe she probably thought "im going to do everything that i think i can do".

if she didnt do everything she believed she could, then in that case she would have some blame.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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45,210
Ofcourse, if she did everything she could over 10 years then no blame where it shouldn't go.

I just can't imagine how everything possible was done, be it scrounging up two pounds a day(which comes up to a hefty amount), or complain non-stop to the authorities as it's a 10 year timeframe.

It's possible she did all, but to me it seems a bit off.
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
its not about looking objectively and saying "well in hindsight she could of done this and that".
you need to look at subjectively and determine if in her mind she did everything that she thought was possible. not everyone is intelligent or informed enough to know this or that is available for help, or if they do x then they can do y.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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45,210
its not about looking objectively and saying "well in hindsight she could of done this and that".
you need to look at subjectively and determine if in her mind she did everything that she thought was possible. not everyone is intelligent or informed enough to know this or that is available for help, or if they do x then they can do y.

Well, we would have to know what she did then.

There's a limit to what is accepted as "done enough" and as we don't know what she did, if even anything at all, can't say.

But you have to agree that 10 years is a long time to supposedly not be able to do anything.

Partly i think it's a case of "taking it", meaning that for a long time she didn't do anything and time just passed.
 

Lamp

Gold Star Holder!!
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The reason we blame is because there was a duty of care / responsibility by the social services & police to to their job, and see to the welfare of the child and follow up on the hooligans.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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Jan 23, 2004
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The reason we blame is because there was a duty of care / responsibility by the social services & police to to their job, and see to the welfare of the child and follow up on the hooligans.

I agree that if there was proof and nothing was done, that there was a failure in the police actions, BUT...

The police afterall can't keep 24/7 taps on the hooligans and social services can't do it either.

They can't put all resources, only limited, to one case and anyone who thinks they should, needs a reality check.

Social services can't handle all and police can't protect all, just not enough resources.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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What i did want t say earlier on the kids aspect, i do think that was nuts.

Should've taken them to social services or something, it is a pure and simple killing.

I doubt there's any sympathy on these forums for anyone who "snaps" and kills half their office.

It may be understandable why it happened, but it's not acceptable.
 

Ch3tan

I aer teh win!!
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27,318
Toht, she did try and get social services involved. Just like the baby p case earlier in the year, there were huge failings by the social services and police here. Honestly read all the info available about this before making off the cuff remarks.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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Toht, she did try and get social services involved. Just like the baby p case earlier in the year, there were huge failings by the social services and police here. Honestly read all the info available about this before making off the cuff remarks.

Doesn't change anything i've said.

If you want to discuss those things, post something you disagree on and why, post what she did, post relevant info etc.

How about even a link to the story?

"Try and get social service involved" covers a number of things. For example, did she try to get her kids into social services or did she ask for cash? What?

Even in worst case scenario, if she had just shot herself and not take her kids with her, they would've been taken care of.
 

Ch3tan

I aer teh win!!
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Dec 22, 2003
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With stories like this, that are in the media spotlight, there is lots and lots of information available. If you want to discuss it maybe you should have a basic knowledge of what happened? If not you are just stating a generic view that has little to do with the situation. Much like gohan earlier you are generalising, when that is the last thing you should do in situations like this. I'm not here to correct you toht, if you want to raise points blindly that aren't to do with his case then go ahead, or you could do some basic research and then give your points.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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With stories like this, that are in the media spotlight, there is lots and lots of information available. If you want to discuss it maybe you should have a basic knowledge of what happened? If not you are just stating a generic view that has little to do with the situation. Much like gohan earlier you are generalising, when that is the last thing you should do in situations like this. I'm not here to correct you toht, if you want to raise points blindly that aren't to do with his case then go ahead, or you could do some basic research and then give your points.

If you've got nothing else to say about my opinions then "you should reads it", then you can f*ck off. Either discuss them or keep it to yourself. No use in generic "you don't know!" posts.

Nothing i've said would change due to some news article.

Oh and FYI; this is an international board, so if i ask for a story in your country so i CAN see if i'm wrong in something, how about you do that?

Easy to say "no you is wrong" and then not say anything on how or why.
 

Ch3tan

I aer teh win!!
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
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27,318
Then why do you even bother commenting? Is it that you cannot help but post and give a few opposed to everyone else? And you can fuck off right back, I was being civil with you. Gohan was the only person I was not with, as he was being an inflammatory troll.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
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Jan 23, 2004
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Then why do you even bother commenting? Is it that you cannot help but post and give a few opposed to everyone else? And you can fuck off right back, I was being civil with you. Gohan was the only person I was not with, as he was being an inflammatory troll.

Civil would be to, oh say, post a link and go "Here you go, maybe this will give perspective" instead of trying to attack my points by going "No you don't know".

You haven't even taken one line to say where i would be wrong, why?

Once again you can't comment on anything else then my posting patterns, which are less on topic then my posts.

EDIT: CAN you post a link about it? Is it humanly possible for you to do so? Or would that somehow mean you've lost some magical combat thing?

Most likely afraid that even if i DID read it, you still couldn't discuss what i posted.
 

Ch3tan

I aer teh win!!
Joined
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Messages
27,318
Toht, why would it be so hard for you to get your own info, a quick google is all it would take. Oh and I attacked your posting because you said fuck off. I did state where you were wrong, about the social services, you are assuming facts without reading around it. You chose to ignore me and asked me to do all your research for you. Maybe you'll be lucky and get someone else to.
 

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
45,210
Toht, why would it be so hard for you to get your own info, a quick google is all it would take. Oh and I attacked your posting because you said fuck off. I did state where you were wrong, about the social services, you are assuming facts without reading around it. You chose to ignore me and asked me to do all your research for you. Maybe you'll be lucky and get someone else to.

General "there were failings" are not proof or any kind of argument.

Equivalent of sticking fingers in your ears.

I told you to f*ck off because you didn't discuss anything i said, simply decided that an attack on it would be better.

You tried to undermine EVERYTHING i said by that simple "you didn't read about it".

Why are you so afraid to post ONE link?

And it's not just on "quick google" away. Look at the first post and you try to google it with that info.

Is it this?

Even mother burns self and kids uk gives nothing of the sort.

Why THE LOVING F*CK do you think i asked you for it?
 

Marc

FH is my second home
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Dec 28, 2003
Messages
11,094
Toht, just for once, actually do some research before spouting off. More often that not you give your opinion on something you know nothing about.
 

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