CoD Modern Warfare 2

[Aada]

Auto aim and a hole host of other bullshit also helps cover up latency.

Console FPS games are the spawn of Satan.

Oh comon your clutching at straws, autoaim helps to cover up lag? Are you serious? Lag is lag you'll notice it if auto aim is on or not don't be silly

 

[PLightstar]

It would have been fine if they included as a 'quick game' option and had a full server list as god intended. It works for the consoles because they are optimised for that sort of things on a PC you usually have a firewall/Antispy-virus running as well as windows and a shed load of other programs using the internet at the same time you are playing games. If you don't have a fast enough machine as well it will cause you problems. Dedicated server negate this problem and people won't have to worry about having certain ports open on their router etc, I still have to open and close ports to host games in Steam like Garrys Mod.

 

[Mabs]

It would have been fine if they included as a 'quick game' option and had a full server list as god intended. It works for the consoles because they are optimised for that sort of things on a PC you usually have a firewall/Antispy-virus running as well as windows and a shed load of other programs using the internet at the same time you are playing games. If you don't have a fast enough machine as well it will cause you problems. Dedicated server negate this problem and people won't have to worry about having certain ports open on their router etc, I still have to open and close ports to host games in Steam like Garrys Mod.

and therein lies the other major prob
some people dont know how to set up ports, and you think little johnny is going to convince his dad to open up the router at home so he can play on the interwebs ?

 

[PLightstar]

True, though I think I was lucky, when I was a kid my mum gave all the details to me to sort out and look after, the only time my mum got involved was when there was a serious mess up with the BT internet and she was the only person they helpdesk would talk to. Even now I haven't lived at home in some 7/8years and I still have full control of there internet and computer.

Going back to MW2 its nice to see that IW have dropped Punkbuster, I hate that program, used to remember playing BF2 and being kicked by Punkbuster for no reason, contacted support and they said update the punkbuster which I did and it was something I had to put up with, same with COD WAW but it isn't as bad as when the game first came out.

 

[DaGaffer]

This is a terrible decision by Infinity Ward, but its not a surprise. I think Monday's Penny Arcade summed it up pretty nicely:

As to why they want to create their own matchmaking network in the first place, the ability to make money selling maps is floated as a reason, and it makes a lot of sense - presumably they would rather make a million dollars than zero. A centralized defense against piracy is also suggested, and things tend to go downhill quick after this. It is not a mischaracterization to say that conversations with the hardcore PC community about software theft follow these tenets:

- There is no piracy.
- To the extent that piracy exists, which it doesn't, it's your fault.
- If you try to protect your game, we'll steal it as a matter of principle.

It's like, who wouldn't want to bend over backward in their service? You need to know it, because nobody else is going to tell you: you guys sound like Goddamned subway vagrants. Of course when you speak exclusively to each other, it all sounds so reasonable. It'll be reasonable when you all board the bus, and the songs you sing en route to excoriate your enemies will be forceful, but within reason; and when you douse yourself with gasoline and immolate yourself in front of the offices of Infinity Ward, one assumes this will be reasonable also.

The highlighted bit has been eminently proved in this thread already. Ah well, I'll probably buy it for SP and wait for BF:Bad Company 2 for MP, dedicated servers and all.

 

[nath]

Though there are folk that have that attitude, I think it over-simplifies things. I think it might be more accurate to say "if you try to protect your game to the extent where it makes a significantly inferior product - we'll steal it as a matter of principle".

After all, the people that stick to that line with respect to Steam releases seem to be in the minority. Steamworks is certainly a way of protecting software but it doesn't impair the quality of the product anywhere near as much as some other things.

Either way, I'm not going to feel for IW or Activision for a second. They've made a business decision that I think is a poor one, in some respects to squeeze more money out of us via DLC, in others to ensure they get the money they're owed by trying to prevent piracy. If it bites them in the ass, tough shit.

 

[mooSe_]

I would only be buying this game for MP anyway as I don't enjoy SP much; there's plenty of other fps games out there with a good MP setup that I can play, so I don't really have any interest in this game anymore.

 

[Raven]

Do they really expect someone to spend £45 (or whatever it costs) for 4 hours worth of single player gaming? Seriously? CoD4 was great as a single player game and I played a fair amount of the online game too so I felt it was pretty good value for money. £45 for a shoddy multiplayer and a single player story is a joke.

There is a reason why I play my games on a PC over a console, in every case the PC version is far superior to the console version, the controls, the online experience, the modding community etc etc.

I make a point of not pirating games these days, it harms the PC gaming industry and I would rather have the full product, knowing it is going to work. I haven't pirated a game in years but I refuse to pay top whack for something that will provide such a short period of entertainment.

To be honest I probably wont even bother downloading it as there are far better games out over the next few weeks, games made by people who have a clue that I am more than happy to part with my hard earned for. If I do play CoD WAW2 it it will be a pirated copy to while away a Sunday afternoon.

 

[Aada]

Any reason you just can't play the game instead of downloading it if you hate the company so much?

You pirates make me fucking laugh trying to use a moral high ground to justify you downloading the game.

You wonder why companys don't give a monkeys about the PC crowd these days? why do you think almost every multiplatform game is delayed on the PC by a few weeks? Because they hope the some of the dirty pirates on the pc will fold and just go buy the game for whichever console they own. Batman and Dirt2 are the latest on this hell even Borderlands was delayed by a week on the PC.

You already said in the thread over in the console forums that you were going to get the game from the 'usual' places.

If you don't like the game/developer desicion for any reason then don't play the game full stop put your money where your mouth is and don't download it either or have some balls and don't try and stand on a moral high ground to excuse the download.

Can't stand pirates I really can't especially when they try to explain why they will download it.

 

[Raven]

lol

 

[Raven]

Anyway, now that I have stopped laughing at your inability to read I will respond properly.

Do you never download anything ever? TV shows, music, films? Never downloaded a game? borrowed a CD and and ripped it? If yes to any of these then hypocrite and you are just as much of a twat as someone who supports UTD one season then City the next...Oh wait.

I couldn't care less if some console fanboi sheds a tear if I download some mediocre FPS, its not my problem if you are stupid enough to pay way over the odds. You are the perfect console consumer, happy to pay top dollar for half arsed junk.

Regardless, rather than quoting myself I will just get you to re-read my previous post until the words get through. You may want to pay particular attention to the "not pirating" "anymore" and "wont bother"

 

[throdgrain]

I'm not going to download it. I've never downloaded any game ever to be honest.

But I'm certainly not going to buy it either, not unless it's on a Steam deal for 10 quid or something.

 

[Ch3tan]

I'm actually so pissed off (it's been a slow to build rage) over the pricing creeping up to this level and the lack of dedicated server support, that I am now not buying this game until it comes right down in price. I refuse to pay more than £30 for the 360 version and £20 for the PC, so I guess I'll be waiting a while.

Boderlands looks like it will get my money instead.

 

[DaGaffer]

Anyway, now that I have stopped laughing at your inability to read I will respond properly.

Do you never download anything ever? TV shows, music, films? Never downloaded a game? borrowed a CD and and ripped it? If yes to any of these then hypocrite and you are just as much of a twat as someone who supports UTD one season then City the next...Oh wait.

I couldn't care less if some console fanboi sheds a tear if I download some mediocre FPS, its not my problem if you are stupid enough to pay way over the odds. You are the perfect console consumer, happy to pay top dollar for half arsed junk.

Regardless, rather than quoting myself I will just get you to re-read my previous post until the words get through. You may want to pay particular attention to the "not pirating" "anymore" and "wont bother"

Much as I generally disagree with Aada about...pretty much everything, you did say in the console forums:

Oh well, saved myself £40 then, will download it from "the usual places" for the single player content.

- so you're contradicting yourself.

As for hypocracy. Fair enough, call me a hypocrite. I do download TV shows, mainly due to simple lack of availability on TV here (if some shows were available even on paid basis, I'd buy them). I don't download music, I don't download movies, and I don't download games. If Activision want to charge a squillion quid for MW2, that's their perogative; it doesn't give me the right to download it because I'm aggreived at their pricing policy, or indeed their DRM, game server or any other policy. This is what pisses me off about PC gamers in particular; this ludicrous idea that they have "rights". You have one right, the right not to buy, and if people didn't pirate games, then the publishers wouldn't have the excuse of piracy to rip people off. Pirates (in all media) are making a rod for their own backs in the long run.

 

[Raven]

Why don't you rent (or buy) the DVD for whichever show you are downloading then? Rather than getting it for free via download? They release them on DVD for you to watch, just because you don't want to wait for them to come onto DVD, or whether you feel the DVD is not good value for money, whatever. Its absolutely no different from downloading a game to play. You are trying to justify illegally downloading TV shows when there are various perfectly legal ways of getting that content with far more ways to choose a price...may I suggest Lovefilm.com?

I have never said I have a right to download their game. I don't think anyone has have they? I would have no qualms about it though and it is their own fault for not offering something at a reasonable price...what do they expect? Selling half a game at a full game price is just plain daft and is bound to attract pirates. Its almost as if they want it to so that they can whine about it.

As I said, I do not illegally download games any more, If i cba to I then WAW2 would be the first one in about 3 years, though I doubt I will bother as it would take longer to download than I would actually spend playing it. The comment in the other thread was a throw away remark, obviously.

 

[nath]

Gaff, isn't that all wishful thinking though? If people all loved each other, there'd be no wars and we could all live happily ever after.

Ultimately, piracy is what it is. It'll stop when they find a bulletproof DRM method (more wishful thinking of you ask me) but it strikes me it makes sense to add value to games and make them desirable to purchase. Sure the "correct" thing to do would be not to buy it and not pirate it but that's neither here nor there. If they want to make money, they need sales, to get sales you need to have a product people want to buy.

Getting uppity about piracy seems a bit pointless.

 

[DaGaffer]

Why don't you rent (or buy) the DVD for whichever show you are downloading then? Rather than getting it for free via download? They release them on DVD for you to watch, just because you don't want to wait for them to come onto DVD, or whether you feel the DVD is not good value for money, whatever. Its absolutely no different from downloading a game to play. You are trying to justify illegally downloading TV shows when there are various perfectly legal ways of getting that content with far more ways to choose a price...may I suggest Lovefilm.com?

If the content is available, that's exactly what I do. I also don't worry about TV shows so much because I'll watch them again on TV anyway, so I'm not taking away their ad revenue; e.g. I might dl a new episode of Family Guy from the US, but I'll still watch it, probably several times, on TV. I'm not hurting them any more than skipping an ad on a PVR. If that same Family Guy episode was available to me on the same day as US viewers, even on a ppp basis, I'd pay. As it is, I'm not even given the option. And like I said, I'll freely admit my hypocracy on this matter, but on the moral downloading scale I see it as the least harm.

I have never said I have a right to download their game. I don't think anyone has have they? I would have no qualms about it though and it is their own fault for not offering something at a reasonable price...what do they expect? Selling half a game at a full game price is just plain daft and is bound to attract pirates. Its almost as if they want it to so that they can whine about it.

That's an utterly ridiculous argument. Its like saying don't buy a Ferrari because its bound to get nicked. Its very straighforward, if you consider the offered price excessive, you don't have to buy it.

As I said, I do not illegally download games any more, If i cba to I then WAW2 would be the first one in about 3 years, though I doubt I will bother as it would take longer to download than I would actually spend playing it. The comment in the other thread was a throw away remark, obviously.

Why is it "obviously"? What, are we telepathic?

 

[nath]

If the content is available, that's exactly what I do. I also don't worry about TV shows so much because I'll watch them again on TV anyway, so I'm not taking away their ad revenue; e.g. I might dl a new episode of Family Guy from the US, but I'll still watch it, probably several times, on TV. I'm not hurting them any more than skipping an ad on a PVR. If that same Family Guy episode was available to me on the same day as US viewers, even on a ppp basis, I'd pay. As it is, I'm not even given the option. And like I said, I'll freely admit my hypocracy on this matter, but on the moral downloading scale I see it as the least harm.

An argument could be made that if you've no intention of buying the game, downloading it doesn't do any harm either. Assuming you don't share it on to others via p2p, naturally. That said - the same assumption would need to be made on the TV shows too.

 

[DaGaffer]

Gaff, isn't that all wishful thinking though? If people all loved each other, there'd be no wars and we could all live happily ever after.

Ultimately, piracy is what it is. It'll stop when they find a bulletproof DRM method (more wishful thinking of you ask me) but it strikes me it makes sense to add value to games and make them desirable to purchase. Sure the "correct" thing to do would be not to buy it and not pirate it but that's neither here nor there. If they want to make money, they need sales, to get sales you need to have a product people want to buy.

Getting uppity about piracy seems a bit pointless.

I know its wishful thinking, but PC gamers in particular are their own worst enemies and full of self-righteous bullshit. There becomes little value in investing in server infrastrucuture if no-one will pay or everyone routinely steals the games. Don't forget, I've been here before; the "GSP" model died because of this type of attitude, and its not surprising the publishers/developers are following suit. PC gamers routinely want more and better than console players, and yet are less prepared to pay for it. This is why PC gaming will eventually be the sole preserve of MMOs; its the only way to get freeloaders to stump up. Steam is the other alternative, but ironically you need two or three Steams to make it work (otherwise there's no competition and you get ripped off by a monopoly provider - which is happening a bit with Steam already).

 

[Raven]

If the content is available, that's exactly what I do. I also don't worry about TV shows so much because I'll watch them again on TV anyway, so I'm not taking away their ad revenue; e.g. I might dl a new episode of Family Guy from the US, but I'll still watch it, probably several times, on TV. I'm not hurting them any more than skipping an ad on a PVR. If that same Family Guy episode was available to me on the same day as US viewers, even on a ppp basis, I'd pay. As it is, I'm not even given the option. And like I said, I'll freely admit my hypocracy on this matter, but on the moral downloading scale I see it as the least harm.

Oh right, I see. In that case its perfectly fine to download it and play it now so long as I promise to buy it in a few years time when its £4.99 in the bargain bin?
I still maintain that there is zero difference in pirating a game and pirating a TV show, both are denying a company money for media whether directly or indirectly. Both are choosing your own grounds and your own price to enjoy that IP.

I also believe I am right when I say the likes of Activision are tempting pirates by use of excessive pricing. They may well make more profit per unit but they will make far less profit overall by setting such a stupid initial price and they will lose even more to pirates. Then there is the idiotic DRM which serves no purpose but to annoy legitimate customers, its broken within days or even hours every single time yet those that chose to pay for the software are stuck with the crap for months/years.

The whole industry needs a giant kick up the arse, they need to start working with the consumer rather than against them.

And actually as proved in another thread in OT, Steam is actually cheaper than play.com and Game on a broad range of games. Though I agree it can be a little pricey at times, though I still prefer it due to the convenience of it. I always buy my games on Steam if I can.

 

[nath]

I know its wishful thinking, but PC gamers in particular are their own worst enemies and full of self-righteous bullshit. There becomes little value in investing in server infrastrucuture if no-one will pay or everyone routinely steals the games. Don't forget, I've been here before; the "GSP" model died because of this type of attitude, and its not surprising the publishers/developers are following suit. PC gamers routinely want more and better than console players, and yet are less prepared to pay for it. This is why PC gaming will eventually be the sole preserve of MMOs; its the only way to get freeloaders to stump up. Steam is the other alternative, but ironically you need two or three Steams to make it work (otherwise there's no competition and you get ripped off by a monopoly provider - which is happening a bit with Steam already).

I think you're projecting that self-righteous attitude, that no doubt some have, on to anyone that feels pissed off about a a bad business decision. I don't see why IW would have to invest in a larger server infrastructure with dedicated servers than what they're doing with their matchmaking system. After all, I don't remember the last time I played on an official Left 4 Dead server, or TF2 server - they're all third party ones.

I appreciate a business trying to make the most money out of its product but given the backlash I think this was a bad move. PC Gamers are what they are - if the publisher/developer wants to make any money they should sell something that people are going to buy. I'm not a pirate, I was going to buy this game but now I'm not. There are lot of hardcore gamers who were in to the whole clan match crap that are not going to buy it. Irrespective of how unreasonable/fuckwitty gamers can be, these companies are asking for our money. If they want it, it's up to them to make it worthwhile.

 

[DaGaffer]

An argument could be made that if you've no intention of buying the game, downloading it doesn't do any harm either. Assuming you don't share it on to others via p2p, naturally. That said - the same assumption would need to be made on the TV shows too.

No, because consumption of a game is different to consumption of TV. Downloading a game is effectively a lost sale (unless you buy it later). After all, the pool of PC gamers is actually a much smaller universe than the TV audience. A typical TV show is sold differently, with several bites of the cherry from a revenue perspective; first run; syndication; physical media/dl. Games in general don't have that.

The TV industry's problem isn't downloads, its time-shifting via PVRs so people don't watch ads, and for TV downloads are being seen as part of the solution (through ppp and pre-and post-roll ads). The problem is that TV is still trying to keep the old syndication model, which means US shows can't be sold internationally directly to users, because they've already syndicated the rights in overseas territories (which is why Hulu is so slow coming to Europe for instance). Unfortunately, in the internet age, getting your TV shows weeks or months after the US is a pain in the arse because of spoilers etc. which is why I freely admit to my hypocracy

 

[DaGaffer]

I think you're projecting that self-righteous attitude, that no doubt some have, on to anyone that feels pissed off about a a bad business decision. I don't see why IW would have to invest in a larger server infrastructure with dedicated servers than what they're doing with their matchmaking system. After all, I don't remember the last time I played on an official Left 4 Dead server, or TF2 server - they're all third party ones.

I appreciate a business trying to make the most money out of its product but given the backlash I think this was a bad move. PC Gamers are what they are - if the publisher/developer wants to make any money they should sell something that people are going to buy. I'm not a pirate, I was going to buy this game but now I'm not. There are lot of hardcore gamers who were in to the whole clan match crap that are not going to buy it. Irrespective of how unreasonable/fuckwitty gamers can be, these companies are asking for our money. If they want it, it's up to them to make it worthwhile.

Server code has a development cost and an ongoing support cost; its not the running of the servers that's an issue (as you said, third parties will do that, and if you're smart, you can even make money out of it through licenced servers as EA are doing), its purely dev and support. IW have just followed the money, and the consoles are more money and less hassle. Am I happy about it? No, not at all, but I can see their point of view.

 

[nath]

It's a big if though. They still sell DVD box sets - TV piracy could well cause problems with their sales. You've admitted hypocrisy though so there's not a great deal to argue about there .

My attitude to the whole thing is a pragmatic one though, piracy is and most likely always will be. There's still money to be made from PC gaming (I assume, or they would have given up some time ago) but perhaps they'd like to make more. The attempts to make more money frequently result in an inferior product and the publishers/developers need to learn what they can and can't get away with. That's all there is to it in my opinion.

Are you sure that the development of a new matchmaking system is cheaper than sticking with the tried and tested dedicated model - I'd have assumed they could stick with similar code to the previous game. I got the impression the motive for this change was to block any chance of pirate servers so that the only way to play MP was with a legit copy. However, this hobbles the multiplayer so they're cutting their nose off to spite their face.

 

[PLightstar]

It makes me think that services such as 'Onlive' will become popular with the publishers and try to push for it, which is all well and good but especially in this county the Internet infrastructure needs to be updated, its happening in some parts of the country but far too slowly

 

[ST^]

No, because consumption of a game is different to consumption of TV. Downloading a game is effectively a lost sale (unless you buy it later). After all, the pool of PC gamers is actually a much smaller universe than the TV audience. A typical TV show is sold differently, with several bites of the cherry from a revenue perspective; first run; syndication; physical media/dl. Games in general don't have that.

No. I've downloaded plenty of games where I'd already decided not to buy, whether I could pirate it or not.

 

[Aada]

No. I've downloaded plenty of games where I'd already decided not to buy, whether I could pirate it or not.

Why would you do dl a game you decided not to buy? you obviously had reasons not to buy the game in the first place but you decided to rip the developer off who made the game anyway and download it?

Dirty scummy pirate.

 

[DaGaffer]

No. I've downloaded plenty of games where I'd already decided not to buy, whether I could pirate it or not.

You're lying to yourself.

 

[nath]

You're lying to yourself.

Many are, but I think that's a pretty obnoxious attitude. There's plenty of shit people download that they wouldn't have purchased otherwise. I'm happy to acknowledge that I might be in the minority here but I can't think of a game that I downloaded that I would have otherwise paid for if I had no access to the pirated version.

Think about other media - one that is probably hit even harder by piracy. The other day I downloaded Grand Theft Anal #37 (not really) but I wouldn't have bought it if I couldn't download it.

 

[TdC]

(otherwise there's no competition and you get ripped off by a monopoly provider - which is happening a bit with Steam already).

And actually as proved in another thread in OT, Steam is actually cheaper than play.com and Game on a broad range of games. Though I agree it can be a little pricey at times, though I still prefer it due to the convenience of it. I always buy my games on Steam if I can.

there is exactly one thing I have against Steam, -and I'm more or less an avid user- and that is the exchange rate policy they have. In the case of games (though strangely not with audio) I actually prefer to not have media in the house. The constant availability of instant updates, et al, is very attractive to me.

Still, in the current exchange, one US dollar is about 60 Euro cents, and they have to suck it the fuck up, just like I have to when it swings the other way.