Class balance

[Vintersorg]

Yup, sorry about that, its just the way the class was designed, not really your fault. Rogues are designed to grief, and thats what 99% of them do, just because your playing nice doesnt mean the rest do.

If your playing on a PvE server anyway, this affects you how? You cant grief on a carebear server anyway so whats the problem? KoS policies only effect PvP servers, if you have never really experienced one then why are you getting all worked up?

I just get the impression that the server's population is just a little more mature on "carebear" servers, that's the entire difference. There have been several occasions when I could have ganked somebody, and also several occasions, where I could have been ganked (a little tool called EverPvP makes me flagged all the time). It just never happened.
It's called "maturity" and "common sense". two things that seem to be missing from PvP-servers

 

[Gef]

I hate gankers, but I'm a ganker myself...

Ganking rogues doesnt make you a ganker, your providing a public service, lol

 

[Yoni]

Sorry I am not hypocritical. I have been playing WoW since last November through 3 betas and I have played most classes......

In every experience I have had both PVE / PVP the rogue has been an issue. I started on this server with a carebear approach if they are x levels lower than me I won't touch them attitude
I very soon learned that I would not survive very long or complete anything if I ignored the opposing faction and specifically their rogues.


e.g. At the cove in Arathi three of us are doing the collect the thingamabobs from the boats, it's not a bad quest but requires concentration (because of the spawn rate of the naga and underwater breathing) we sucessfully get the first two bits. I am standing guard to watch out for spawning Naga and suddenly I get attacked (yes you guessed it much higher level rogue) and died.

Had this been me (i.e. that rogue) a) I wouldnt be loitering in a quest area where you know the quest is challenging just to ruin someone elses gaming, b) if I had been there (i.e. if a quest had taken me there) I wouldn't have touched them.

Now this is one example out of many that I can recall over many months of playing....and to be quite frank if you do not play on a PVP server then you do not have the first clue about how it feels to be ganked by a spineless rogue whilst you are out questing (as that situation will only arise on a pve server if you want it to) so really you are in no place to comment on whether I am hypocritical or not.

Oh and before you give me the "it's your choice to play pvp blah blah blah" I like PvP for the most part I like the extra buzz you get from not knowing if you will meet the other faction.

Btw KoS all Rogues

 

[Vintersorg]

Sorry I am not hypocritical. I have been playing WoW since last November through 3 betas and I have played most classes......

In every experience I have had both PVE / PVP the rogue has been an issue. I started on this server with a carebear approach if they are x levels lower than me I won't touch them attitude
I very soon learned that I would not survive very long or complete anything if I ignored the opposing faction and specifically their rogues.


e.g. At the cove in Arathi three of us are doing the collect the thingamabobs from the boats, it's not a bad quest but requires concentration (because of the spawn rate of the naga and underwater breathing) we sucessfully get the first two bits. I am standing guard to watch out for spawning Naga and suddenly I get attacked (yes you guessed it much higher level rogue) and died.

Had this been me (i.e. that rogue) a) I wouldnt be loitering in a quest area where you know the quest is challenging just to ruin someone elses gaming, b) if I had been there (i.e. if a quest had taken me there) I wouldn't have touched them.

Now this is one example out of many that I can recall over many months of playing....and to be quite frank if you do not play on a PVP server then you do not have the first clue about how it feels to be ganked by a spineless rogue whilst you are out questing (as that situation will only arise on a pve server if you want it to) so really you are in no place to comment on whether I am hypocritical or not.

Oh and before you give me the "it's your choice to play pvp blah blah blah" I like PvP for the most part I like the extra buzz you get from not knowing if you will meet the other faction.

Btw KoS all Rogues

My advice: If you can't stand ganking, but want the extra PvP thrilll, play on a "carebear"server, and use the little Mod called Everpvp...You won't be safe at all in the contested zones.

And I've been playing online games for years (I was there at the very beginning of UO). There was no such things as PvP flags back then. If you wanted to whomp on a player, you just did it. So I have as much experience in PvP-servers as you do, if not more.

 

[Gef]

My advice: If you can't stand ganking, but want the extra PvP thrilll, play on a "carebear"server, and use the little Mod called Everpvp...You won't be safe at all in the contested zones.

That is so pointless, "I dont like getting ganked so I turn on a mod that lets everyone gank me" what are you trying to prove? That PvE servers are actually lots about PvP, because they are not, they are about grinding quests in peace and harmony. You will never be in a situation where you have to fight for survival against more then just NPC's. I love it, I do it for the adrenaline you get in mass slaughter fights. Two groups out questing, meet and fight, you just wont get it in consentual PvP .. you may as well just stick to duels, which is pretty much all your gonna get on a PvE server as of now.

And I've been playing online games for years (I was there at the very beginning of UO). There was no such things as PvP flags back then. If you wanted to whomp on a player, you just did it. So I have as much experience in PvP-servers as you do, if not more.

You played UO so therefore your know about WoW PvP servers? What? I played UO for 3 years and I wouldnt say it helped me understand the complexities of PvP in WoW.

There is no such thing as PvP flags on WoW PvP servers either, if you just want to whomp on a player you just do it... its great!

 

[Vintersorg]

That is so pointless, "I dont like getting ganked so I turn on a mod that lets everyone gank me" what are you trying to prove? That PvE servers are actually lots about PvP, because they are not, they are about grinding quests in peace and harmony. You will never be in a situation where you have to fight for survival against more then just NPC's. I love it, I do it for the adrenaline you get in mass slaughter fights. Two groups out questing, meet and fight, you just wont get it in consentual PvP .. you may as well just stick to duels, which is pretty much all your gonna get on a PvE server as of now."

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but you can get lots of PvP action on the PvE servers, when you level in the contested zones and you are PvP flagged. That flag seems to work on players of the other side like a red flag on a bull. And you won't getganked, since the population is more mature (explain me how comes I haven't been ganked of yet, otherwise). Don't take my remark so bad, it was just some piece of advice I gave. But if you don't want to take it, fine, continue playing on your PvP servers, but stop complaining about ganking. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

You played UO so therefore your know about WoW PvP servers? What? I played UO for 3 years and I wouldnt say it helped me understand the complexities of PvP in WoW.
There is no such thing as PvP flags on WoW PvP servers either, if you just want to whomp on a player you just do it... its great!

That was not my point.
Yaay, apparenlty, WoW PvP servers are so great because there are no PvP flags and you can gank who-ever you like. Point of comparison is: there was rarely, if any, ganking so many years back, even though there was plenty of opportunity. The WoW PvP servers are a gathering point for Diablo2 online players (the first game were ganking was a real issue) ==> by definition gankers who enjoy screwing up everyone else's game.

 

[Vintersorg]

But I will stop nagging on about this...It seems as if our views on this are too different, so we'll never come to an en of argument . I'll stop this here as I don't want to Troll

 

[Gef]

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but you can get lots of PvP action on the PvE servers, when you level in the contested zones and you are PvP flagged. That flag seems to work on players of the other side like a red flag on a bull. And you won't getganked, since the population is more mature (explain me how comes I haven't been ganked of yet, otherwise). Don't take my remark so bad, it was just some piece of advice I gave. But if you don't want to take it, fine, continue playing on your PvP servers, but stop complaining about ganking. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

A random enemy seeing your PvP flagged and trying their luck does not equal real PvP. Like I say, random duels.. And I havent once complained about ganking? In fact we were discussing how much fun it is to gank Rogues on a regular basis..

That was not my point.
Yaay, apparenlty, WoW PvP servers are so great because there are no PvP flags and you can gank who-ever you like. Point of comparison is: there was rarely, if any, ganking so many years back, even though there was plenty of opportunity. The WoW PvP servers are a gathering point for Diablo2 online players (the first game were ganking was a real issue) ==> by definition gankers who enjoy screwing up everyone else's game.

You sure you played the same UO I did? Was gankfest 1999 as far as I can remember, those little bleeders, always killing my miner and nicking his ingots! Its what made it such a great game in my opinion, when you get to the stage for some payback. Same with WoW, revenge is so sweet when you have spent the last months fighting for your life. Thats what its all about if you ask me.. also so I can laugh when I see some Horde running at a juicy Gold seam and gank him then nick it! Muhaha

 

[Tasslehoff]

I just get the impression that the server's population is just a little more mature on "carebear" servers, that's the entire difference. There have been several occasions when I could have ganked somebody, and also several occasions, where I could have been ganked (a little tool called EverPvP makes me flagged all the time). It just never happened.
It's called "maturity" and "common sense". two things that seem to be missing from PvP-servers

Ok, I understood what you said before. But you sound like somebody who has played a lot on the PvP-servers. I doubt you have been playing much here, because often people just pass each other without killing.

And why play on a PvE-server if you use EverPvP? =p

 

[Vintersorg]

You sure you played the same UO I did? Was gankfest 1999 as far as I can remember, those little bleeders, always killing my miner and nicking his ingots! Its what made it such a great game in my opinion, when you get to the stage for some payback. Same with WoW, revenge is so sweet when you have spent the last months fighting for your life. Thats what its all about if you ask me.. also so I can laugh when I see some Horde running at a juicy Gold seam and gank him then nick it! Muhaha

Ever been there at the start, I mean like 1996-1997? That was the period I was referring to. I should have put it a little more specifically. Sorry about that.

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Ok, I understood what you said before. But you sound like somebody who has played a lot on the PvP-servers. I doubt you have been playing much here, because often people just pass each other without killing.

And why play on a PvE-server if you use EverPvP? =p

It's fairly popular on the RP servers that don't have the pvp ruleset

(Strange choice to have the RP servers as PvE imo but meh, that's how it is. Yes I'm aware of Blizzards official reasoning )

 

[Gef]

Well it launched in '97 but yeah I have the original box with the lead badge and cloth map to prove it, think I started a few months after launch. UO was always a gankfest, even moreso in the olden days, before perma red and stat loss was introduced. Ever since that guy cast a Flamewall on Lord British and killed him while he was giving a speech in beta

 

[Vintersorg]

And why play on a PvE-server if you use EverPvP? =p

Because I don't want to play on a Gankfest server and I want to see honorable PvP. And I don't want to be bothered re-activating my PvP flag once every 5 minutes when I'm in a contested zone.

 

[Vintersorg]

Well it launched in '97 but yeah I have the original box with the lead badge and cloth map to prove it, think I started a few months after launch. UO was always a gankfest, even moreso in the olden days, before perma red and stat loss was introduced. Ever since that guy cast a Flamewall on Lord British and killed him while he was giving a speech in beta

Ah wasn't sure anymore about the release date.
I never got ganked there...maybe I had some kind of reputation for being evil/overpowered, or I had just plain dumb luck.
Or maybe I was on a more...reasonable shard

 

[Ebonn]

OK, let's see...850+ ambush, gouge, 600+ backstab. + mind numbing poison and the other poison that lowers healing rate and effects (forgot the name).
I lost again 1 warlock (the first I fought), since then, never lost again.

Maybe you've been fighting crap rogues

Yeah sure dot/dot/dot/syphons are nice. But if you've been damaged for already 1500+ damage and get your first spell interrupted (when your casting times are dramatically increased by the mind numbing poison, you will be dead before you get the third DoT off...

Deamonolgy warlock > rogues.

UD Shadow priest > all.

 

[Vintersorg]

Deamonolgy warlock > rogues.

UD Shadow priest > all.

The player behind the keyboard is more important than the class in itself really.
Warlocks have difficulty killing a rogue if they get gouged, kicked or blinded on nearly every spell they cast Likewise a rogue has difficulty kicking, blinding and gouging the warlock if the warlock's fear goes of first.

And shadow priests vs. any other class...same story, if the opponent knows what he is doing (and no matter what class he is) you've got one dead priest.

 

[Vesuvius]

i dont think its fair to class the pvp server population as less mature than Normal servers... Alot of people went to pvp because they dont want to wait for battlegrounds before getting some decent practice in. Thats the main reason i went pvp. after a long haul in DAoC and a long haul in UO, mmporgs just dont seem worth it without pvp.

An no i aint a ganker... infact i rarely if ever attack people. i just defend myself. and retaliate if necessary.

 

[Treon]

only class thats really overpowered imo are the rogue, stun stun stun dead, and its hard to spot em aswell

 

[Brynn]

Im a rogue, and im not going stunlock - far too fucking easy to beat an opponant when they cant do anything. Also if i was beaten by a char that kept me in stun for the whole fight i would cry for a nerf. So if i get beaten, but yet have the chance to fight back, it wouldn't seem so bad.

 

[Ebonn]

The player behind the keyboard is more important than the class in itself really.

Fair enough.

Me > all, then.

 

[Nugusta]

for myself i never attack unprovoked. I think many are playing pvp servers just for the thrill that they *might* get killed or get an unexpected fight now and then, and otherwise treat people from the other faction with caution but not with hostility.

I agree, I don't attack unprovoked. When someone attacks me while I'm fighting a mob, or they're 10 levels above me. They can be sure I'm going to be following there ass for the next 5 hours...

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Fair enough.

Me > all, then.

Missed ur elf ass ebonn

 

[Ormorof]

im kinda worried about blizzard nerfing rogues (like the LA nerf i mean, though now i mention it, that was only really bad for SB's, zerkers were fine )

surely all those rogues would simply team up to do their ganking then?

(if they havent already)