Class balance

[Acercerak]

I eat rogues with my Warlock

An' I eat Warlocks with my rogue

 

[Aada]

Crap Warlocks sure but ive pummeled every rogue ive met so far.

Dot/dot/dot/siphon life/fear then just kite him while your imp is blasting him too

I think rogues are a no skill class. I played a rogue on the US servers they were a nice class but i thought they got pretty boring after abit.

Warlocks take some tactics to play thats what keeps me interested in them

 

[Darksword]

thing is orm, it would b nice for them 2 get a lifeline against 3-4 mobs, i.e. rogue can sprint, mage pbaoe inst freeze, priests shield and pbaoe fear (dunno if the fear would work? <Shrug>

i dunno maybe somehting 2 render the mobs useless for 2 seconds 2 give u range? i know theres something in talents that dazes mobs for a few seconds? which is a nice idea, but i mean something like the tauren racial which stuns everything for 1.5 seconds is nice but then if warriors got that it would make taurens stun look bad - altho i personally like there stun, provides a slight escape advantage and can even stun when ur close 2 death 2 get that swing in 2 kill the mob so u win or summit

 

[Dillinja]

That and the debuff limit being 8, meaning if you have more than two warlocks in raid, you're unable to all of them unlseash curses on the same target.



Put it this way - I can almost do the same, and I'm only level 45. (for the argument that priests are bad for solo, and I don't even have shadowform yet)

I wasn't really reffering to rate of xp, but more what what happens when warriors get equal or higher level adds when soloing? The ones I've seen and been unable to help tend to die. Every other class has some trick of their sleeve they can use: fear, root, vanish, pet, etc. Warriors? No method of getting away unless you got potions. Maybe I've just seen bad warriors soloing, maybe not, but it's still a major weakness, especially at lower levels.

Bloodrage(depending on hp/rage), Intimidating Shout, Hamstring usually saves me.

Escaping in PvP though, almost impossible.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Don't play the game yet, but can say a few things.

No matter what class/race combo you play, chances are that there's more of you around.

There's so "little" classes/races and so many players that the difference between classnumbers ain't that big. Well, atleast if you look it from a group perspective.

Ok, so you need a warlock. Warlocks are 10% of population(boo, bad, hiss, too little). Let's say that the population of a server is 2000. That leaves 200 warlocks on the server. I think out of a 200 warlocks, your group will get one.

I say, play what you play if you like it and don't listen to stupid people going "Boo! You're playing a stealther! FOTM hugger!"

Cause if you play a warlock, you might be considered a part of the stupid people calling others FOTM huggers.

My head hurts...

 

[Vantros of the Delerium]

Paladins suck at holding agro, and they have no way to peel a mob off a healer instantly, try it, ask a Priest to hit Mind Blast on something and see how long it takes the Paladin to pull the agro off.

I'm quite lucky, we have a regular group of 5 friends, Warrior, Paladin, Rogue, Priest and Mage .. perfect group really, we fly through instances. But from what I have seen, if a big 3-4 mob pull is inc and the Priest does something daft like group heals and gets agro, with no Warrior there would be an instant wipe.

I see Paladin as a secondary tank, once he has the attention of a mob then leave him to it, he can sit hapily bashing away and healing to take up the slack, but he isnt going to hold the attention of 2-3 mobs. I have seen Priests and Mages pull agro off Paladins very easily, with no real way to get it back.

we have a group setup of rogue, paladin, priest (me), druid, hunter.. and any good priest uses fade when aggro comes to them. I have little trouble with aggro a warrior is great but if i cant heal it folds faster than a cream puff, last night we did the sunken temple and paladin held the higher lvl aggro while everyone else killed the other mobs, and then all focused on the higher lvl elite aggro. Btw wtf is your priest doing useing mind blast in a group anyway?? he think hes a mage?? Im a shadow priest but in a group im a healer and only use mind flay for runners. Trust me i can pull aggro of a warrior with mind blast easily and they aint getting it back, even if i use fade, so your arguments utter crap.

 

[Gef]

I say, play what you play if you like it and don't listen to stupid people going "Boo! You're playing a stealther! FOTM hugger!"

Thats not what I meant in my original post, by all means play what you want, nobody should have to play a class they hate just because its 'balanced'. The problem is that people dont 'want' to play certain classes, namely Priest, Warrior, Druid, Warlock, which suggests that they have problems. Shortages of Warriors and Priests, also to an extent Warlocks for their ability to recover a group from a total wipe, in the end game high level instances is going to be an issue.

20 Paladins, Rogues and Hunters standing round a meeting stone is going to be fun.. Nobodys fault really its just the way that certain classes are perceived.

 

[Gef]

Btw wtf is your priest doing useing mind blast in a group anyway?? he think hes a mage?? Im a shadow priest but in a group im a healer and only use mind flay for runners. Trust me i can pull aggro of a warrior with mind blast easily and they aint getting it back, even if i use fade, so your arguments utter crap.

LOL I didnt say she used Mind Blast in a group, just an example, to 'test' the agro pulling power of a Paladin. Any big spell will do it, a nice fat group heal or an 800hp single target heal. Read before you start flaming, and Fade only works for so long. In a good group with a decent Warrior you wont ever NEED to use Fade!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Thats not what I meant in my original post

Oh i know, and didn't mean to say that you were one of the "fotm boo" hissers

Just mouthing opinions.

 

[Talivar]

Prob with paladins and aggro is ppl expect the paladin to tank aswell as be a backup healer and this is where the probs start.To get and maintain aggro as a paladin u need to run taunt seal and fire consecration when poss and ALWAYS hit 1st and keep hitting,Which is all fine and ok until ppl start screaming heal heal priest lom or something similiar cus the second u stop attacking to do a heal u 9/10 times lost aggro.
So pls ppl learn to accept a paladin is a good tank OR a good backup healer but sooks at both at once.

 

[Acercerak]

Crap Warlocks sure but ive pummeled every rogue ive met so far.

Dot/dot/dot/siphon life/fear then just kite him while your imp is blasting him too

I think rogues are a no skill class. I played a rogue on the US servers they were a nice class but i thought they got pretty boring after abit.

Warlocks take some tactics to play thats what keeps me interested in them

OK, let's see...850+ ambush, gouge, 600+ backstab. + mind numbing poison and the other poison that lowers healing rate and effects (forgot the name).
I lost again 1 warlock (the first I fought), since then, never lost again.

Maybe you've been fighting crap rogues

Yeah sure dot/dot/dot/syphons are nice. But if you've been damaged for already 1500+ damage and get your first spell interrupted (when your casting times are dramatically increased by the mind numbing poison, you will be dead before you get the third DoT off...

 

[Acercerak]

thing is orm, it would b nice for them 2 get a lifeline against 3-4 mobs, i.e. rogue can sprint, mage pbaoe inst freeze, priests shield and pbaoe fear (dunno if the fear would work? <Shrug>

Fear...not instant but cast pretty quick. you can easily fear the mobs before you're dead. With them running for 15 secs and more. you've got alll the time in the world to run away.

 

[Acercerak]

Prob with paladins and aggro is ppl expect the paladin to tank aswell as be a backup healer and this is where the probs start.To get and maintain aggro as a paladin u need to run taunt seal and fire consecration when poss and ALWAYS hit 1st and keep hitting,Which is all fine and ok until ppl start screaming heal heal priest lom or something similiar cus the second u stop attacking to do a heal u 9/10 times lost aggro.
So pls ppl learn to accept a paladin is a good tank OR a good backup healer but sooks at both at once.

Aye, there are always complaints that the paladins are an overpowered class and should be nerfed...
Nothing could be less true. Warriors hit better than they do, priests/druids heal better than they do...
They're hard to kill, that's for sure, but they seem to hit with wet towels

 

[Ormorof]

Ok, so you need a warlock. Warlocks are 10% of population(boo, bad, hiss, too little). Let's say that the population of a server is 2000. That leaves 200 warlocks on the server. I think out of a 200 warlocks, your group will get one.



My head hurts...

but surely if 30% of the server is then rogues that makes..... 600 rogues?

one rogue is too many! boo hiss!

 

[Whisperess]

They're hard to kill, that's for sure, but they seem to hit with wet towels

Tell your Paladins to get better equipment then.

Fair enough, we don't have the same control over how much damage we do, but it can still give quite decent numbers. Hitting for 200 (rarely)-400 (usually)-800 (rarely) on the targetted mob + 24 dmg/second and 12 dmg per received hit to all mobs around us adds up pretty quick. (lvl 40 reference)

Paladins are about flexibility and aggro managment isn't a class issue - it's a group issue.

 

[Acercerak]

Tell your Paladins to get better equipment then.

Fair enough, we don't have the same control over how much damage we do, but it can still give quite decent numbers. Hitting for 200 (rarely)-400 (usually)-800 (rarely) on the targetted mob + 24 dmg/second and 12 dmg per received hit to all mobs around us adds up pretty quick. (lvl 40 reference)

Paladins are about flexibility and aggro managment isn't a class issue - it's a group issue.

I'll rephrase: compared to other melee based classes, paladins seem to hit with wet towels.

What weapon are you using anyway? and what are your stats (str, agi I mean?)

 

[Danya]

How come mages seem to get lower hits than everyone else? I thought we were meant to be a DPS class?

 

[Sycho]

Eh? i got 3k hps on my mage and near 6k mana seems about fine to me. Oo

Or if you talking about damage, 31 arcane/20 fire mage does some pretty insane damage with instant pyro and 35% more damage from arcane power.

 

[Whisperess]

I'll rephrase: compared to other melee based classes, paladins seem to hit with wet towels.

What weapon are you using anyway? and what are your stats (str, agi I mean?)

Using Ravager with Seal of Command on top.

I carry several armor pieces depending on the role I have to fill. Strength around 130 and agi unmodified at 47. Focusing on an even spread together with Spirit/Intellect as I mostly solo (+30 to +45 on str/sta/int/spi). Attack Power @ 437 (dmg 216 - 270). (116 str but not wearing my full set of melee armor atm )

 

[Acercerak]

Using Ravager with Seal of Command on top.

I carry several armor pieces depending on the role I have to fill. Strength around 130 and agi unmodified at 47. Focusing on an even spread together with Spirit/Intellect as I mostly solo (+30 to +45 on str/sta/int/spi). Attack Power @ 437 (dmg 216 - 270). (116 str but not wearing my full set of melee armor atm )

OK, Find a warrior of about the same level with the same axe, and about the same stats, and compare his damage to yours. Next step: start crying...

I've played WoW since before Euro release (played US servers) and saw lots of warriors and paladins there... Paladins in general do about 75% the damage of another melee class. But their strengths lie in their defensive capacities

 

[Danya]

Eh? i got 3k hps on my mage and near 6k mana seems about fine to me. Oo

Or if you talking about damage, 31 arcane/20 fire mage does some pretty insane damage with instant pyro and 35% more damage from arcane power.

I mean damage. My typical frostbolt is ~350, yet even paladins are talking about 400+ normally and 800 on lucky crits...

 

[Gef]

Tell your Paladins to get better equipment then.

Fair enough, we don't have the same control over how much damage we do, but it can still give quite decent numbers.

Paladins have the lowest DPS of all classes, Rogues and Warriors both have ways of 'bursting' damage with instant attacks. Paladins are stuck plonking away unstyled at a steady rate, ok fair enough, SoC when it procs/crits can do some crazy damage. But guess whats getting nerfed next patch? Paladins by design have the highest survivability of any class, and also the lowest DPS.

 

[Acercerak]

I mean damage. My typical frostbolt is ~350, yet even paladins are talking about 400+ normally and 800 on lucky crits...

He hits two-handed, which means he hits slower. You can normally cast 2 spells for each time he swings. So the damage about evens out

 

[Sycho]

I mean damage. My typical frostbolt is ~350, yet even paladins are talking about 400+ normally and 800 on lucky crits...

Mine do around 500 a hit, 1k crits.They only cost 221 mana which is much better damage per mana than a fireball, once you get frostbite 5 shatter 4/5 you will see good damage, also if you use frost damage bonus later on whilst farming you can see a good difference on bolts, with 30 frost damage bonus my bolts went from 465-495 to 500-520(at lv56 i think this was).Just working on a suit now with 200-300 frost bonus will take a while but be great at 60 when farming for epic mount.

 

[Acercerak]

Paladins have the lowest DPS of all classes, Rogues and Warriors both have ways of 'bursting' damage with instant attacks. Paladins are stuck plonking away unstyled at a steady rate, ok fair enough, SoC when it procs/crits can do some crazy damage. But guess whats getting nerfed next patch? Paladins by design have the highest survivability of any class, and also the lowest DPS.

Hmmm. You have stated the situation in a far more understandable way than I did

 

[Danya]

Mine do around 500 a hit, 1k crits.They only cost 221 mana which is much better damage per mana than a fireball, once you get frostbite 5 shatter 4/5 you will see good damage, also if you use frost damage bonus later on whilst farming you can see a good difference on bolts, with 30 frost damage bonus my bolts went from 465-495 to 500-520(at lv56 i think this was).Just working on a suit now with 200-300 frost bonus will take a while but be great at 60 when farming for epic mount.

I have +14 all magic damage, also piercing ice 3/3, shatter 5/5...

 

[Darksword]

Fear...not instant but cast pretty quick. you can easily fear the mobs before you're dead. With them running for 15 secs and more. you've got alll the time in the world to run away.

hehe ahhh kk wasnt sure about cast time. but also i mean warrior needs more survivability (yeh they have lodas of hp and armor but i mean something more sure against mobs - like a 1-2 second aoe stun or something so warrior can run away.

 

[Gef]

hehe ahhh kk wasnt sure about cast time. but also i mean warrior needs more survivability (yeh they have lodas of hp and armor but i mean something more sure against mobs - like a 1-2 second aoe stun or something so warrior can run away.

Warrior has:

Piercing Howl - AoE, Causes all nearby enemies to be dazed for 6 sec, instant cast, 10 Rage

Intimidating Shout - AoE, Causes all nearby enemies to flee in fear the targetted enemy will stay and fight (roots targetted), lasts 8 sec, instant cast, 25 Rage

Hamstring - Targetted, Causes 45 damage and slows the enemy's movement to 60% of normal speed for 15 sec, instant cast, 15 Rage

If you cant escape with all those tools at your disposal your doing something very wrong.. Your never going to escape in PvP however, unless your fighting someone without any kind of speed. Once you hit 40 however you'll get a mount anyway and legging it will become easier..

 

[Ormorof]

Intimidating Shout - AoE, Causes all nearby enemies to flee in fear the targetted enemy will stay and fight (roots targetted), lasts 8 sec, instant cast, 25 Rage

thats not a great deal of use when trying to fear a single mob though

 

[Whisperess]

But guess whats getting nerfed next patch?

You referring to this?

Seal of Command - The damage effects can now be resisted instead of dodged, blocked, or parried.

I'd say that's a boost.