Chris Benoit has died

[Overdriven]

Okay. I need to rephrase what I said as it may of sounded; well, to you lot; a bit weird.

1) I said, killing the family was the worst thing to do (in less words)
2) I'm looking at it from a neutral PoV, yes - He did kill his family, no excuse for it. But without knowing WHY he did it, we've really got no right to say anything. Yes, I think he's scum for killing the family, but I've got no proof for anything. So I can't really comment.

Sorry if you took it the wrong way. I'd just rather know why he did it before I start calling him anything. You know. Because mental health is a great thing.

EDIT: @Marc: Get a fucking life. Further proof you're a [beep]
@Toht: See, I CAN'T post my opinions on forums Told you.

 

[Saggy]

Funny how its right to call Benoit "a legend and a person to look up to" without knowing the facts why he and his family died but calling him a scum (with better details mind you) is wrong :S If you really want to be one of the "I want to see all the facts before judging" then you should stfu and wait for the facts, right? I know that's what I'm going to do.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well there's always the fact that no matter what he did in this matter, who he was remains as a object of admiration(if any due given).

 

[Kryten]

You can bet your bottom dollar this will be turned into a movie somewhere down the line.

Not that I care. I hate wrestling - it may be good entertainment for the folks that enjoy it but the acting is worse than your average episode of Eastenders, the bodies are pumped full of enough shit to supply Manchester for a month and it's just not my cup of tea. Wife however loves it - she was deeply greived for the loss of this chap.

As far as judging him goes - theres no excuse for taking someone elses life in this manner, period. Therefore, the guy was obviously well fucked in the head.

 

[Thadius]

Funny how its right to call Benoit "a legend and a person to look up to" without knowing the facts why he and his family died but calling him a scum (with better details mind you) is wrong :S If you really want to be one of the "I want to see all the facts before judging" then you should stfu and wait for the facts, right? I know that's what I'm going to do.

Get a clue please.

He was a monster in the end yes, but he took so much shit for most of his career but he stuck at it, even when he was told he weas too small to compete in the wrestling world and finally got was he deserved. THATS what I admire, I admired him for years before this horrible episode started.

Im not shallow enough to suddenly turn on someone because they did something bad, you cant change the past

 

[leggy]

Im not shallow enough to suddenly turn on someone because they did something bad

If that's the definition of shallow I'll happily accept the title.

If anybody I know and respect turns and murders their family I'll happily shoot the bastard myself and ask him to kindly rot in hell.

 

[Thadius]

If that's the definition of shallow I'll happily accept the title.

If anybody I know and respect turns and murders their family I'll happily shoot the bastard myself and ask him to kindly rot in hell.

Why is it shallow?

Yes he is a monster, but I tend to think of the better times when he was apparently more sane. Maybe because im still he shock about it, but if you cant let the bullshit pass and just enjoy the wrestling for what it is, why bother.

 

[Talivar]

Its pure selfish Hero worship, I presume then we should remember gary glitter for the songs he sang and not let his crimes ruin that image? Im sure he had thousands of fans using your arguments in his defence aswell. Try to look at it all from a neutral stance and u will see why ppl get mad when they see ppl defending him.

 

[Overdriven]

Try to look at it all from a neutral stance and u will see why ppl get mad when they see ppl defending him.

Doesn't work, you get flaimed.

 

[MYstIC G]

Neutral? I don't think anyone here can in all honest pin that badge on themselves.

It's the same old shit really. I don't know him or his family or what actually happened, neither does anyone else. That, however, doesn't stop us all from talking as much shit as we like and that's all that this thread is at the end of the day.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Its pure selfish Hero worship, I presume then we should remember gary glitter for the songs he sang and not let his crimes ruin that image? Im sure he had thousands of fans using your arguments in his defence aswell. Try to look at it all from a neutral stance and u will see why ppl get mad when they see ppl defending him.

Well, michael jacksons music is still good and if he touched some kiddies in a naughty way, doesn't make me like the music any less(good old stuff that is). Might be just me though.

Neutral stance isn't calling him a murdering scumbag by the way, that's just the opposite view.

 

[leggy]

Neutral stance isn't calling him a murdering scumbag by the way, that's just the opposite view.

Not really. He murdered his family. That generally implies that he's a murderer.

 

[Thadius]

Well, michael jacksons music is still good and if he touched some kiddies in a naughty way, doesn't make me like the music any less(good old stuff that is). Might be just me though.

Neutral stance isn't calling him a murdering scumbag by the way, that's just the opposite view.

Jacksons and Glitter do have good songs and yes, I listen to them.

But then again, why do people listen to bands from the 70s and 80s, didnt most of them wreck thier hotel rooms?

Im not comparing that to murder, that would be silly, but isnt it a crime and very naughty?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not really. He murdered his family. That generally implies that he's a murderer.

Yes, unless it's shown that actually something else happened. I believe some of the evidence is still out and about etc? Anyhoop, about it being a murder, it might be the drugs, loosing his mind(literally) and then i'd call it, well, "snapping" for the lack of better term.

Lives are lost and it's not good, but murder and killing someone is a very different thing still.

Might be a language thing here too.

 

[Damini]

Okay, this is the reason I think what I think -

The evidence shows 24 hours between death one and death two, and then another 24 hours before his suicide. That's a bloody long wait. The wife's body was bound prior to death, which suggests that it wasn't simply a reflex action, a punch thrown in an argument that killed. He sent out text messages at this time, claiming family sickness, and then creating a false story to cover their absence and possibly any forensic evidence left at the house by talk of vomiting blood. It was only after their deaths, and contemplating his own, that the religious scripture appears in texts. This implies a more stable mental state at the beginning that deteriorates, rather than a massive psychotic episode, or outburst of roid rage. The religious ramblings that can indicate a mental breakdown are probably more to do with his fears of being damned for what he has done, afterlife repercussions, or else they would have surfaced at the beginning of this episode, instead of alibi texts. I'm by no means an expert, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on these things, and this is the opinion I have. Right now, no sympathy for the man from me.

It's just interesting. I've never heard anyone talk about crack addicts that murder people saying "Hey, wait, it might not be their fault! It might have been the drugs that made them do it." If it was the steroids that made him this way, then the evidence has been out for years (with the divorce/restraining order) that they were affecting his moods, and so you have to start to wonder when someone can take personal responsibility for the monster they are turning into, or are the effects so strong that a person's personal responsibility is just obliterated?

 

[Calaen]

I think that is what people are wondering about though.

If it was a smack head we would all be kicking off, however until we discover whether or not it was the steroids it is kind of hard to do that. The description of the murders does not suggest rage, but a calm and calculated effort on his behalf. Yet every story about it mentions steroids. I suppose we could call it roid calm and calculated attack instead of roid rage.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's just interesting. I've never heard anyone talk about crack addicts that murder people saying "Hey, wait, it might not be their fault! It might have been the drugs that made them do it." If it was the steroids that made him this way, then the evidence has been out for years (with the divorce/restraining order) that they were affecting his moods, and so you have to start to wonder when someone can take personal responsibility for the monster they are turning into, or are the effects so strong that a person's personal responsibility is just obliterated?

I said this in off-topic, with little if any success but...

No matter who it was, i'd say the same thing. But i doubt any crackhead murder would become public like this. Like i said, it's not because he's famous that i'm waiting for the evidence and have my doubts, it's the evidence. But it is the fact he's famous that it's been so widely discussed.

I've been wondering about the roids too, if it was roid rage, ok, it's an awful thing, but makes it more understandable(not the killings, but how it was possible) and takes the murder away from it. If it wasn't roids, it's just so uncharasteristic that it would amaze me more.

 

[Talivar]

I think the main problem is ppl are forgetting he was an actor, his personality as presented on TV wasnt him, it was a persona created to entertain just like a chars from films or tv soaps. Remember wrestling is just an american soap opera with fictional characters played by actors.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think the main problem is ppl are forgetting he was an actor, his personality as presented on TV wasnt him, it was a persona created to entertain just like a chars from films or tv soaps. Remember wrestling is just an american soap opera with fictional characters played by actors.

Everyone(except young americans..well...and older) knows that. It's about the documentaries, behind the scenes on DVD's, how he acted on tour(off stage that is) where you see the true people those guys are.

From those, like with hell...gandhi...you make your opinion on someone. Ofcourse.

 

[MYstIC G]

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[mank!]

whether it was drugs, steroids, mental illness, whatever - it doesn't change the fact he killed his wife and son and then himself. he is a murderer, QED.

i can understand why people who respected him as a wrestler struggle to instantly stop respecting him, life isn't simply black and white like that. nevertheless, none of us know precisely what happened or what caused it so to pass judgment is somewhat premature at this stage; especially considering the recent unfortunate death of bob woolmer and the calamitous police investigation that followed...

oh and i'm sorry, but liking michael jackson's music is one thing but gary glitter? he was rubbish!