Cheats and bans

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
liloe - just got caught in the blast ;) had to nuke about 15 posts (people accusing, people counter accusing, quotes etc.)
 

liloe

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
4,168
Flimgoblin said:
liloe - just got caught in the blast ;) had to nuke about 15 posts (people accusing, people counter accusing, quotes etc.)

such collateral dmg =))
 

Nomans Land

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
791
What exactly is windowdragging? Never heard of that before :s but then again I dont bother to read boards any more.
 

Docs

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
515
Now with 100 less cheaters on the EU servers, have any of you out there noticed any difference?

Just curious as to wether there has been an apparant difference since this was announced?
 

Fana

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,181
Nomans Land said:
What exactly is windowdragging? Never heard of that before :s but then again I dont bother to read boards any more.

Probably best not to discuss that here since it might give some people the wrong ideas tbh :(
 

Cerberos

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
252
Fana said:
Probably best not to discuss that here since it might give some people the wrong ideas tbh :(

To late m8:( so many alb casters are using it atm :puke:
 

Gear

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
3,579
Can I post a link to a runie doing that? Or will that mean FH banning?
 

griralith

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
402
Jarod said:
And Sure its only alb caster that uses that :wanker:

Yes all of us... and even the ones who havent bought the game yet, but thinking of mking a alb caster... pfft whine whine whine
 

liloe

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
4,168
Gear said:
Can I post a link to a runie doing that? Or will that mean FH banning?

ofc, I posted a link of an SM doing it long time ago =)
 

ilaya

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
1,660
kinda makes u wonder tho dont it.. 100 peeps banned but the biggest and most well known person to use it aint banned. hmm.. good job there mythic..
 

Bigbrother

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Messages
382
good !

GOOD !!! about time somthing happend.
now... instead of playing BG alts i might go rvr again...
 

Deadnala

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
678
ilaya said:
kinda makes u wonder tho dont it.. 100 peeps banned but the biggest and most well known person to use it aint banned. hmm.. good job there mythic..
we may not name but does he run with a chicken pet? :p
 

Dimmer

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
346
Easyest way to help get rid of him/her is to make a RN so they can investigate him/her, to se if acusasions are propper and then GOA would be able to take action. so RN all the cheaters!
and please gif new crafting system.... hate to trinket 10000000000 woods takes forever... gif new recepie 200 wood/metal in 1 keystroke and make it take 10 min, but only make posible for capped LGM's to make

Sorry for my spelling just can't seam to think in english right now...

EDIT:: eheh woops put in a wrong quote so now deleted it... ::EDIT
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
send your frapses to rightnow - don't post them here, just tells the cheaters to lie low.
 

Tay

Grumpy old fecker
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,310
liloe said:
privacy etc.

I thought the characters were owned by GOA, so why cant tell us which characters were caught cheating?.

If they are 100% sure that a cheat has taken place then why cant they back it up. If they dont tell people, the community would simply speculate leaving us in a worse state than before.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
Dimmer said:
Easyest way to help get rid of him/her is to make a RN so they can investigate him/her, to se if acusasions are propper and then GOA would be able to take action. so RN all the cheaters!
and please gif new crafting system.... hate to trinket 10000000000 woods takes forever... gif new recepie 200 wood/metal in 1 keystroke and make it take 10 min, but only make posible for capped LGM's to make

Sorry for my spelling just can't seam to think in english right now...

EDIT:: eheh woops put in a wrong quote so now deleted it... ::EDIT

they added in bigger trinkets a few patches ago I thought? not superhuge ones but bigger.
 

Kwidz

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
657
i have played some rvr but never seen anyone abusing windowdragging or mayb it dont work vs spells? just melee?
 

Nul

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
461
Not a day to late!
They should put the player names on webby as well for everyone to see.

Nice one! :D

Aybabtu said:
Although i haven't been much active in this discussion i am glad to be albe to read this in the news at www.daoc-europe.com...


"Anti-radar
As you already know, fighting cheaters has always been a priority on DAoC servers. This week, almost a hundred players have been banned because they had used a "radar" type of third-party software, in clear violation of the rules accepted by all in the EULA.

The accounts concerned have been banned from the Dark Age of Camelot European servers once and for all. As a matter of fact, we continue our investigations. The fight against cheaters does not stop here.
Have a good game."

That'll teach them....
 

Dimmer

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
346
Flimgoblin said:
they added in bigger trinkets a few patches ago I thought? not superhuge ones but bigger.
aye true you can now trinket 20 of material each time, but then it takes 50% longer time to make same amount and that dosen't really help me when I have 50000 wood/metal to trinket I sudently have to use 150% of the time I did when I made hinges, just now I can do something while crafting instead of pressing the button every 6 second for 2 units, now it takes 92 seconds for 20 units... hate this... gif faster crafting...
 

Cirandi

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
512
Docs said:
Now with 100 less cheaters on the EU servers, have any of you out there noticed any difference?

Just curious as to wether there has been an apparant difference since this was announced?

Don't think it's English servers only, so we should hardly notice. Given the german and french have a much higher population they probably have a larger percentage of the cheaters too :)
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
Dimmer said:
aye true you can now trinket 20 of material each time, but then it takes 50% longer time to make same amount and that dosen't really help me when I have 50000 wood/metal to trinket I sudently have to use 150% of the time I did when I made hinges, just now I can do something while crafting instead of pressing the button every 6 second for 2 units, now it takes 92 seconds for 20 units... hate this... gif faster crafting...

thought it was 10 times the amount for 10 times the time... silly assumption by me I guess :)
 

Lywon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
111
I have reported 2 speed hacker users by now, both was alb realm.

I've fighted about 2-3 windowdragger 1 VS 1 fights. Alb infs once again. They hit me side styles, behind styles even i'm moving back all the time and facing, sticking, etc..

God damn, and XPing middle of no where the place that nobody knows in RvR, you got flanked by 1 FG hibs? No radar.. nooo.. they just happen to see me middle of nowhere behind the tree? Hah.

Ban all damn stupid cheaters. If you can't play the internet game without cheats go play some tetris instead..

And hackers.. cut the fingers and pierce the eyes!!

:twak:
 

Joohl

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
611
Why not have a public execution ingame, this is a fantasy world, where some big lord command the executioner in a big voice.

OFF WITH THEIR HEAD!!!!!!!.......
{chopp} <chaters name> has been slain by <executioner name>.........
npc croud go :bazbeer: folowed by silence.......

then have an undertaker drag the body off to some dark cave where they may not rest i peace.

This way it's a ingame event and they have only tou pdate there EULA, so it state that cheaters char name will be killed ingame if they are caught, and everyone click <YES> to EULA at instalation. (I'v read it have you?)

Hell I'd have a char constantly logged at execution area to get there asap and see everyone of those executions, I'll even buy Fraps and record it :)
 

Esselinithia

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,110
liloe said:
But yer, it seems that there is one program where you have to pay for, which can't be detected with simple methods.

I think the problem lies in the way the code is transmitted to the user. We all know the well known "lag-inc" when the comp loads textures for incoming players and I think in the same way other players are sent to you before they reach clipping range. So if you get a program to analyze that code, you get a pretty simple radar proggy which should show the locs of everything around you in that maximum sending range. Having such a thing run on your harddrive might be easy to check but actually you could do many things to trick the whole thing, like run the parser on a unix machine besides you and send the information via SSH to a 3rd party onscreen program on your own machine. So the DAoC code could check incoming stuff for radar stuff, but it can't decode the SSH tunnel. In the same way the same code couldn't detect the onscreen 3rd party proggy, cause a lot of other programs do the same thing ( Fraps and TeamSpeak Overlay both create an overlay for DAoC and I wouldn't consider them cheats =)) ).

Well long story short. I'm not much into network programming, but I think it's not too hard to outtrick the general safety features when you know how to hide your code well.

The problem with what you say is simple. If Mythic uses a radar detection similar to you can see elsewhere, it looks like this: The communication between the game server and your client can be encrypted, and if it is done well, sniffing the network traffic is not enough to be able to analyze anything. Why? Since you know the public key sent by the client, but not the secret key, when the server accepts the connection it sends its public key, but it is already encrypted using the public key sent by the client, so only the secret key of the client can decrypt it. After that all data sent to the client is encrypted with the clients public key and the servers secret key (so you need the clients secret key, and servers public key to decrypt it).

All you can do is a man in the middle attack, ie for the client you try to look like a server, for the server you try to look like a client and using your keys for communication. But it means the client and the server know about different key pairs. If the server can send any code to be executed by the client (either normal executable code, or anything that runs on an internal scripting / macroing engine in the client), the different key pairs stored in client memory can be detected and the server can learn about the ban this way. If you intercept such commands from the server, etc. and they fail or give unexpected results that can be detected too. So Radar works ONLY if it knows about what kind of packets it get and knows the proper answer to them. Like if radar developers know about how the latest radar detection works, and can send fake responses. Not so easy, right? And similar tricks can be used to detect modified clients (even if you only modify animations, etc) as well. It is fast, efficient, can be fully automatic. What else do you need?

It looks bright? now comes the downside: Radar detection software also picks up tools used by developers who work on freeshards, since they break the EULA they can get banned as well. But both these developers, radar developers and radar users who get caught have a last line of defense: 14 days trial. They don't need to use radar with their real accounts, just need someone in the radar detection range, even a level 1 gimp goes. It is hard to prove you have used radar, if it is used on a such account, this is why Mythic says they probably haven't catched everyone who used radar in this time. Hard to prove but they can mark the main account. (If radar is detected in presence of an FG all the time, all accounts can get marked for watching)

Transfers, account sharing, etc. is illegal for your own safety, but they don't trace it down, if no abuse results don't ban for it in most cases, but if you caught using radar? Now that is different story. They can suspend then ban for any of the mentioned stuff, plus offensive language / behavior, emote spam, etc. As you can guess offensive language, emote spam are both very easy to detect by analyzing log files with scripts. So they can send warnings, suspensions, bans etc. to cheaters without too much problems :) GOA has plenty of room to ban. If nothing else just pure statistics suggest that the reports about radar abuse can be true, they can get proof about other abuse easily.

So imho, you shouldn't even attempt to cheat :) If you do, you would get banned quickly.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
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3,185
Joohl said:
Why not have a public execution ingame, this is a fantasy world, where some big lord command the executioner in a big voice.

OFF WITH THEIR HEAD!!!!!!!.......
{chopp} <chaters name> has been slain by <executioner name>.........
npc croud go :bazbeer: folowed by silence.......

then have an undertaker drag the body off to some dark cave where they may not rest i peace.

This way it's a ingame event and they have only tou pdate there EULA, so it state that cheaters char name will be killed ingame if they are caught, and everyone click <YES> to EULA at instalation. (I'v read it have you?)

Hell I'd have a char constantly logged at execution area to get there asap and see everyone of those executions, I'll even buy Fraps and record it :)

lol :D
 

Mirt

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
1,221
@Esselinithia

Afaik only the old Odins Eye was a man in the middle radar (Mythic encrypted the data stream to make this harder - oh and public key cryptosystems are crackable although the effort probably isn't worth it for a mmo).

Most of them operate because windows lets you read another process's memory space, and usually it's possible to track down important data structures (such as the co-ordinates for everything) and do what ever the hell you like with that information. There's a lot mythic can do to make things harder, but I doubt they'll be more then a few steps ahead of the hackers, QQ! :(

I've been radared a few times and frankly it sucks.
 

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