Cheaters in DAoC

[old.Mirandalia]

I have been in and out of RvR in this game, have mostly liked the PvE part since I don't die all the time there.
In RvR it's fun for awhile, but mostly I've been steam-rolled over when I've been there

Well, my work for this summer is nearing completion, giving me back my student aparment with 10mbit line, would've wanted to try out RvR once again.

But today I saw a thread on these boards, that linked to another thread on VNBoards, where someone was having crashing issues, a few pages later the same person with the crashing issues had posted some form of log that proved cheats to be causing the crashes. The cheats were "radar".

I decided to do a quick search on that in google, found me a site all about the cheats, and I was stunned.

I mean, the things the cheat program could do!

If that particular cheat is widespread, I'm never going to go to RvR again, heck I'll probably stop playing all together.

Why on earth do people insist to CHEAT?

I can't tolerate it.. at all. Please stop cheating everyone.
Cheating is bad, m'kay? Don't be bad... Don't cheat.. cheat, bad, m'kay? Therefore you shouldn't cheat, m'kay!

I won't be posting any name of cheat nor links.


What's this thread about then?
It's a cry-out for help to GOA/Mythic/the world, about the cheating going on this game, the cheating that shouldn't go on, and hopefully it is possible to remove it altogether from it.

If you have any idea how to stop these cheats from working (you are technical) please send a mail to Mythic.

 

[Addlcove]

dude I want some of that you´ve been smoking...

woooheeeeee.

 

[SFXman]

I completely agree, although I do not the extent to which there are cheats for DAoC or as to how widespread the use is.

Cheating in MMORPG's really is disgracefully pathetic. People just want to raise their self-esteem and create a "fan base" from appearing to be superior to many.

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by Addlcove
dude I want some of that you´ve been smoking...

woooheeeeee.

Yeah, thinking that we could stop all the cheating dimwits around the world really points toward some form of smoking.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yes. Quite. Ahem...

*checks something*

I knew i was running low on reality but baby your running on fumes.

Games come and go, also do cheats. With every game you get cheats. Why?

Because most of them are coded into the game.

Why?

Because gamedevs need to test the game in a bit "improved" enviroments.

Why not remove them after testing?

Because players like a little bonus after all is done. Gamedevs like a happy player. Happy player buy more stuff with gamedevs name on it.

Now, in MMO games such as DAoC, this is a reality in a different way.

Cheaters are a 2% playerbase. In good games. In CounterShiet(as an example), there's hacks and cheats up the wazoo to fill the tub and to give out some to the homeless as well.

One more thing, if i had the ability to create a software to kill all possible cheats...wouldn't send it to mythic...wouldn't send it anywhere...i'd be rich

 

[ChillyDawg]

damn right seel. But the only "cheats" in daoc that arnt external programs are...well...external programs like teh actual dev tools that let you spawn apok in the guard room in Mithra or make you fly awayyyy with all the relics. Theres no "IWANNACHEAT" then press alt+z type cheats. But afaik from wot iv read about the techy side of daoc, itd be a MASSIVE task to even try and stop these radar progs being functional, sure you could encrypt the data stream or something, but so what? someone would hack the .dll that decrypts it or whatever and just release another hack.

but we should be thankful that there arnt more (?) cheats around, or at least not BLATENTLY cheating. I mean, iv never had reason to suspect iv been wtfpwned bysome cheater using his radar in odins or whatever, i just assume im dead cos i was tryin gto solo a smite cleric - therefore my own fault ,)

Anyway, its not SO bad.

 

[Addlcove]

Originally posted by SFXman
Yeah, thinking that we could stop all the cheating dimwits around the world really points toward some form of smoking.

I was amining at the

Cheating is bad, m'kay? Don't be bad... Don't cheat.. cheat, bad, m'kay? Therefore you shouldn't cheat, m'kay!

I won't be posting any name of cheat nor links.


What's this thread about then?
It's a cry-out for help to GOA/Mythic/the world, about the cheating going on this game, the cheating that shouldn't go on, and hopefully it is possible to remove it altogether from it.

If you have any idea how to stop these cheats from working (you are technical) please send a mail to Mythic.

Mythic already have their own (you are technical)'s that knows a shitload more about how the game engine works than any outsider.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by Addlcove
Mythic already have their own (you are technical)'s that knows a shitload more about how the game engine works than any outsider.

Well....you could make an outside software that kills outside software...err...from..working..

*coughs*

Yeah, let's make a third party software to kill third party software. Anyone else see the irony/sarcasm?

 

[Damini]

I never really understood that cheating mind set, but then I'm a bit of a puritan. I don't play to be the best, I play to play which seems to be a novel concept to some. I remember in UO some guy PK'ing me with his sword from the far edge of the screen, and then being treated to a "HAH I OWNED U!" speech. Erm... no. If you were stood next to me I might almost have thought I lost fairly, but when you're swinging a short sword from ninety foot away and chopping me up, I don't think I've been owned. The rest of my guild turned up to fight him, and he proceeded to do the same to them. Which was when a Customer Services guy turned up (God, I missed them in DAoC!) and did some smiting.

I just don't get it. It's like publicly announcing you've bought a penis enlarger because you're not satisfied with your own size. "I'm just not up to the job!" is what it says to me, not "I owned you".

These games do need to be very strict on these things though, because if they become endemic you get Joe Average feeling he has to have the same just to compete.

 

[Addlcove]

Originally posted by Damini
I never really understood that cheating mind set, but then I'm a bit of a puritan. I don't play to be the best, I play to play which seems to be a novel concept to some. I remember in UO some guy PK'ing me with his sword from the far edge of the screen, and then being treated to a "HAH I OWNED U!" speech. Erm... no. If you were stood next to me I might almost have thought I lost fairly, but when you're swinging a short sword from ninety foot away and chopping me up, I don't think I've been owned. The rest of my guild turned up to fight him, and he proceeded to do the same to them. Which was when a Customer Services guy turned up (God, I missed them in DAoC!) and did some smiting.

I just don't get it. It's like publicly announcing you've bought a penis enlarger because you're not satisfied with your own size. "I'm just not up to the job!" is what it says to me, not "I owned you".

These games do need to be very strict on these things though, because if they become endemic you get Joe Average feeling he has to have the same just to compete.

I :wub: you Damini!

nicely put

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by Damini
I just don't get it. It's like publicly announcing you've bought a penis enlarger because you're not satisfied with your own size. "I'm just not up to the job!" is what it says to me, not "I owned you".

Oh please gods no...don't make me think of a penis when i play DAoC.(pun alert) It's hard enough as it is.


To play that is....perv.

 

[Repent Reloaded]

Originally posted by old.Mirandalia
I have been in and out of RvR in this game, have mostly liked the PvE part since I don't die all the time there.
In RvR it's fun for awhile, but mostly I've been steam-rolled over when I've been there

Well, my work for this summer is nearing completion, giving me back my student aparment with 10mbit line, would've wanted to try out RvR once again.

But today I saw a thread on these boards, that linked to another thread on VNBoards, where someone was having crashing issues, a few pages later the same person with the crashing issues had posted some form of log that proved cheats to be causing the crashes. The cheats were "radar".

I decided to do a quick search on that in google, found me a site all about the cheats, and I was stunned.

I mean, the things the cheat program could do!

If that particular cheat is widespread, I'm never going to go to RvR again, heck I'll probably stop playing all together.

Why on earth do people insist to CHEAT?

I can't tolerate it.. at all. Please stop cheating everyone.
Cheating is bad, m'kay? Don't be bad... Don't cheat.. cheat, bad, m'kay? Therefore you shouldn't cheat, m'kay!

I won't be posting any name of cheat nor links.


What's this thread about then?
It's a cry-out for help to GOA/Mythic/the world, about the cheating going on this game, the cheating that shouldn't go on, and hopefully it is possible to remove it altogether from it.

If you have any idea how to stop these cheats from working (you are technical) please send a mail to Mythic.

....dude, its not like RvR is full of cheats, only a hand full of people cheat and those get banned by GOA, they have tools that can find cheats.

not playin RvR due to ppl cheating is a lame reason not to RvR imo.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I just had to steal that quote damini

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by ChillyDawg
Anyway, its not SO bad.

Very true, and I am still satisfied because of that fact.

Originally posted by Addlcove
I was amining at the

Alright, sorry about that. Missed your point which was not clearly shown

Originally posted by Damini
I never really understood that cheating mind set, but then I'm a bit of a puritan. I don't play to be the best, I play to play which seems to be a novel concept to some.

You sound fairly similar to myself when it comes to gameplay, in the time from retail release till now I have succeeded in getting one character to level 50 and and "whopping" RR3

Which was when a Customer Services guy turned up (God, I missed them in DAoC!) and did some smiting.

Now that is truly something I also miss. Those guys could turn up from a simple call with the help system and solve all your problems
We really need such people in Dark Age of Camelot, but for some reason I doubt it will ever happen.
Could have something to do with the fact that Ultima Online was one large concept, not various setups around the world.

These games do need to be very strict on these things though, because if they become endemic you get Joe Average feeling he has to have the same just to compete.

Exactly.
They have to keep up with their policies, because if they loosen them even that one small bit, we will have an increased cheater-base.

This was actually an amusing "as-if" scenario I thought of earlier today; give the permission for people to use the programs used to cheat currently. If everyone uses them, it's fair! Even better, maybe the features of these malicious third-party applications should be implemented in 1.70 or something in that general direction.

Of course, this will hopefully not happen

 

[old.Tohtori]

Let's try this then....

Someone uses radar program to find stealthers and people.

"Cry havoc and slip loose the dogs of war!!!"

Mythic releases a new patch that includes a "sensing" system for casters as a realm ability.

"Woho! A new thingy to play with."

Anyone who wants to clarify my point, is more then welcome. I find it clear enough.

 

[cuddled0rf]

Not that big a problem imo.....start it small, kick ppl from guild if u know they use macroing or such things....make it uncool to cheat, put ppl u know do it on ignore.......did threaten a guildie who talked about macroing once, will do it again......

/em polishes halo and flips the bird at cheaters

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh...interesting moral issue...kinda like the whole vegetarians eating jello(when gelatine is made out of Miss Piggy)...

How many have used char builders?

How many have looked up quest tips?

How many have downloaded maps?

How many have transferred stuff from highchars to lowchars?

Just a question of where the line is drawn

Not taking sides, i don't cheat, others can if they want to, just raising points

 

[old.Mirandalia]

So far I haven't been playing much RvR at all because I've enjoyed the PvE part more, but soon there will only be level 50's and RvR left.

I just read about the cheats today, and got angry, and IF the situation in the game would be cheats only THEN I doubt I'd RvR etc.

I was speaking of things to come in the coming week (moving to another apartment). And the scenario I was imagining was that more than 50%-75% of the players in RvR were using the cheats. If that would be so then I would.. yes, never set foot in RvR again, cause I'm anti-cheating.

not playin RvR due to ppl cheating is a lame reason not to RvR imo.

No, I beg to differ, cheating is lame. Refusing to play because there are more cheaters than honest people is just my choice (again: IF the situation would be that bad).


(These clarifications had to be made due to people missing the point behind my post)

Ps.
I don't smoke or do drugs

 

[old.Mirandalia]

Originally posted by old.Tohtori
Let's try this then....

Someone uses radar program to find stealthers and people.

"Cry havoc and slip loose the dogs of war!!!"

Mythic releases a new patch that includes a "sensing" system for casters as a realm ability.

"Woho! A new thingy to play with."

Anyone who wants to clarify my point, is more then welcome. I find it clear enough.

The point isn't that Mythic could easily implement the same functionality. It is that there are people that have this program (cheats) and use them against the other part of the player base.

If this was a built-in function in the game, I would have NO problem with this, but this isn't built-in, it's a cheat, cheating.. uke:

 

[SFXman]

Hehe, interesting point there Doc.

Char builders:
Practically just calculates spec points for you, and let's you try out various combinations which would take very long to calculate otherwise. As for the skills showing, on a general level each lines skills/spells just become stronger with more spec.
Nothing revolutionary in char builders.

Quest tips:
Instead of "where moon shine causes a pentagon on the wall and there are five cracks intersecting" you get "first room on the right as you enter".
Then again these cheats we are all talking about in this thread make the game easier... so do quest tips.
Hard to decide here really... maybe some just like the action part, not the thinking part.

Maps:
You could make your own simple maps if you felt like it, looking at maps is the same as writing down loc's on a sheet of paper

Transferring stuff:
There are generous people in the real life world as well, think of it that way

The line is drawn in such a place that something is not supposed to happen. Quests are meant to be completed or figured out.
However it was not meant for people to see where people are if they are not in the field of vision, and whatever the cheat program in question does.

 

[kinag]

I totally agree to this post, after reading it I did some searching on google, and hell, how easy it was to find "radar" software!
It should be removed asap!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by old.Mirandalia
If this was a built-in function in the game, I would have NO problem with this, but this isn't built-in, it's a cheat, cheating.. uke:

Kinda the point i had there Mirry

A cheat is only a cheat as long as it's illegal. Want a game that is cheatfree? MAke a game that allows cheats. Ergo. No cheats.

Kinda like a country without laws. No laws, no crimes.

SFX: Only thing i contradict on your reply(fine one by the way) is this:

"The line is drawn in such a place that something is not supposed to happen. Quests are meant to be completed or figured out."

Thinking of a gamedev perspective, they didn't(i believe) mean for people to go through quests step by step with a map in hand/window. If they wanted people to feel a bit confused about the tips to the quests, perhpas clearing those tips with helpguides is a form of cheat as well.

Ok, it's a thin line i agree...but it all comes down to personal morals. To some, using a cheat is a way of gameplay.

I personally found it extremely fun when in diablo we grouped to kill a cheater 7 to 1

 

[old.Mirandalia]

Originally posted by old.Tohtori
Thinking of a gamedev perspective, they didn't(i believe) mean for people to go through quests step by step with a map in hand/window. If they wanted people to feel a bit confused about the tips to the quests, perhpas clearing those tips with helpguides is a form of cheat as well.

Ok, it's a thin line i agree...but it all comes down to personal morals. To some, using a cheat is a way of gameplay.

Yes, that might've been the original intent, but because this is an online game with more than one people, the first thing a player does (at least I did) when getting stuck on a quest is asking another player, then another if the first one didn't know.
And if you should happen to ask everyone and no one would know the answer (quite frequent in the beta time, what I would like to referr to as the "good-old-days" (i'm not sayin it was trouble free, believe me it wasn't )), then the only possible solution was to go out looking for the answer on the internet (some forum where the answer could be found, perhaps). If it is considered cheating to pass a quest that can't be figured out (because being too dumb), by asking for help, then I'm also a cheater and will stop posting right now.

I personally found it extremely fun when in diablo we grouped to kill a cheater 7 to 1 [/B]

And? How did it end? Did the cheater kill all 7 of you?



Thanks for giving both of your insights on this topic, Doc and SFX, appreciate it. And if the cheating population is as low as 2% then perhaps I can live with it, but the point still remains, cheating is...

 

[Cyradix]

Originally posted by old.Mirandalia
If you have any idea how to stop these cheats from working (you are technical) please send a mail to Mythic.

Problem is you can only catch the radar users by monitoring their movements. Radar programs only look at the data being sent to your client. No way to detect them....

 

[old.Mirandalia]

Couldn't the game itself check for the existance of some other program that is this cheat? Then just report it to Mythic/Goa, leave this thing in for a few months, then mass ban anyone that had the program.

 

[chretien]

Originally posted by old.Mirandalia
Couldn't the game itself check for the existance of some other program that is this cheat? Then just report it to Mythic/Goa, leave this thing in for a few months, then mass ban anyone that had the program.

Whole lot of privacy issues there. I don't believe it is possible to legally scan your computer and send logs with personally identifiable data to a third party without a search warrant from a court.

 

[Addlcove]

Originally posted by old.Mirandalia
Couldn't the game itself check for the existance of some other program that is this cheat? Then just report it to Mythic/Goa, leave this thing in for a few months, then mass ban anyone that had the program.

major loss of income. wont happen

 

[Cyradix]

All the radar progs have to do is sniff the network traffic going to your pc and show the results on your monitor.
And I don't think it would be legal for Mythic/GOA to have the game scan your pc and send the results to their HQ

Macro tools would be detectable because they can check for mouse and key clicks on a set pattern (like crafters would use)

However I don't think there is a way to get rid of the radar progs.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by old.Mirandalia
And? How did it end? Did the cheater kill all 7 of you?

Actually we bashed his head in. He came back with friends and killed the lot of us after but..still...we always could say "Well, we killed you that one time."

 

[Flimgoblin]

there's no surefire way...

but they can still be found and banned... just takes GMs or whatever looking out for it.