Changes at Goa

[noaim]

Funnily enough I do confer quite regularly with the German GMs. They sit about 4 yards from my desk. As it happened I discussed the TT incident with them before taking action and the duelling circle thing with them afterwards and in both cases their opinions were the same as mine and they would have acted identically (and regularly do in the case of duelling circles). Feel free to discuss it with one of them on Avalon if you like.

Esselinithia. The GM team didn't negotiate anything regarding Dyvet and the options for it. We put forward our opinions and feedback from the community some months ago and the work is now being done by senior management and our technical teams. Changes at our level don't have any impact on that.

To answer some of the questions about Goa and WAR. This will be a very different project to DAoC. We've learnt a lot of things and have a lot more resources available to us this time around. We also have a much stronger partnership with Mythic for WAR. With DAoC, we were simply licensees, War on the other hand is a much closer arrangement. Our biggest effort for WAR is going to be the community stuff. That's all I'm going to be doing, I'm not going to be a GM or a CSR. All my job will entail is facing the players and working the communities. We want to give English speaking European players more added value for choosing our servers over the US ones and the best way for us to do that is through our community involvement. We intend to match or exceed Mythic at every level of service and we're putting together a very strong team to do that with, - part of that is having a team of people who are solely tasked with making sure we're in touch with the players.

That sounds good on paper, but it also sounded good some 6+ months ago when you said you were working on fixing Dyvet. Please tell me exactly what you have accomplished in this time that can be considered working towards a fix for Dyvet except for giving some people 8 free days? 8 days who prolly were more likely to make the people thinking of coming back definitley give up those thoughts, than to make anyone start again. You havent said anything, you havent done anything, so WHY should people trust you when you say that in WAR you´ll have superservice?

 

[Sparx]

Best of luck in your new role Req. Your constant presence on here has helped alot, even if alot of peeps did disagree with you from time to time

I for one will, if i do decide to, play on US for many reasons out of your control.

 

[Sollers]

made reply Requiel but on 2nd thought cba for the obvious reasons.

 

[IainC]

That sounds good on paper, but it also sounded good some 6+ months ago when you said you were working on fixing Dyvet. Please tell me exactly what you have accomplished in this time that can be considered working towards a fix for Dyvet except for giving some people 8 free days? 8 days who prolly were more likely to make the people thinking of coming back definitley give up those thoughts, than to make anyone start again. You havent said anything, you havent done anything, so WHY should people trust you when you say that in WAR you´ll have superservice?

Well we have been doing things. Unfortunately in the main it's not stuff that you as a player can see, the end result will be obvious but not all the small steps needed to get to it. I said back then that we had a short term plan to help the situation and a long term one to resolve it properly. Our short term stuff included a big marketing push off the back of LotM as well as encouraging players who had left to try the game again. Our long term plan is more complex and involves a lot of changes that aren't going to be individually visible to players. I said back then that we were working on it and that was true then and it's still true now. We have been trying to make our solution feasible for several months now with the assistance of Mythic and things are moving along with that. It isn't a trivial thing to fix though which is why it's taking so long.

 

[rampant]

ooh - does this mean that goa will be hosting their own war forums?

 

[Esselinithia]

Requiel: I hope that community management will include at least:

official forum
updated list of fansites
contests (wallpaper, screenshot, video, etc)
player submited content
events

 

[Shike]

Well we have been doing things. Unfortunately in the main it's not stuff that you as a player can see, the end result will be obvious but not all the small steps needed to get to it. I said back then that we had a short term plan to help the situation and a long term one to resolve it properly. Our short term stuff included a big marketing push off the back of LotM as well as encouraging players who had left to try the game again. Our long term plan is more complex and involves a lot of changes that aren't going to be individually visible to players. I said back then that we were working on it and that was true then and it's still true now. We have been trying to make our solution feasible for several months now with the assistance of Mythic and things are moving along with that. It isn't a trivial thing to fix though which is why it's taking so long.

problem with all this you say is.. its all invisible, its very hard for us players to actually take this you say without a big heapload of salt and think: "Yeye... talking is easy, why dont you actually do anything, or at least tell us what it is that you are doing." Im quite sure you know this and im also guessing there are reasons as to why we get to know more or less nothing, one reason is probably that people perhaps will be dissapointed and also perhaps that some things arent possible to do. Or something.. anyhow, what I wanna say is just this, its actually better to say things and perhaps dissapoint a few, rather than say nothing and leave people be in a floating state where we know nothing. Its been said many many times before and I think why Dyvet is loosing players and basically now is a dead cluster is because of the lack of announcements about whats beeing done and what the plans for the future are. Perhaps this isnt your own decision (i assume it isnt) but still, bring this point forward to your collegues and superwisors and try to explain that not all people accept to play under those conditions. Tons of people have left Dyvet the last year, sure the game is getting old etc but that fact alone isnt to blame for the loss of players and I think that personally, you know this. Nevermind it though, its not a subject to discuss, I just wanted you to know what I think in the matter, that is all.

Regarding WAR, well.. as I said before, I do hope the GMs arent as hogtied as you have been in DAoC. Im assuming as much that WAR is gonna be a very very different game from DAoC in many ways, the old DAoC's FGscene or similar will hardly be a big part of it and I think the maincore will be, WAR as Mythic intended with DAoC from the beginning. Should make it alot easier to manage communitywise I think ^^

 

[IainC]

Requiel: I hope that community management will include at least:

official forum
updated list of fansites
contests (wallpaper, screenshot, video, etc)
player submited content
events

It will include all of those things and more with the sole exception of an official forum. There will be a beta forum but not a live one. The reasons for not having an official forum are precisely the same as the ones Mark Jacobs of Mythic laid out here.

 

[Bikkus]

Good luck in your new role within GOA Req. I believe you have always done your best to be honest with people on your FH posts:worthy: .

Unfortunatly I won't be paying GOA for their services when WAR is released, I will be doing my utmost to play on the USA servers. If that is a option that wont be available to us Brits, then I would rather not play WAR at all rather than give my money to a lousy company called GOA. Their customer service is dreadful and they seemed to rely totally on your goodwill to come on to this forum to interact with the customer base.

They have a lazy setup and unless they have a dramatic rethink on how they operate I know of many DAoC players who will not support the GOA version of WAR.

Best of luck Req.

 

[Phantomby]

I've never done that and never intend to.

To answer some of the questions about Goa and WAR. This will be a very different project to DAoC. We've learnt a lot of things and have a lot more resources available to us this time around. We also have a much stronger partnership with Mythic for WAR. With DAoC, we were simply licensees, War on the other hand is a much closer arrangement. Our biggest effort for WAR is going to be the community stuff. That's all I'm going to be doing, I'm not going to be a GM or a CSR. All my job will entail is facing the players and working the communities. We want to give English speaking European players more added value for choosing our servers over the US ones and the best way for us to do that is through our community involvement. We intend to match or exceed Mythic at every level of service and we're putting together a very strong team to do that with, - part of that is having a team of people who are solely tasked with making sure we're in touch with the players.

Well goodbye to both of you firstly.
However in regards to your post, anyone who does a check on your previous posts will find that they say very little and skirt many issues raised by the community. I hope this isnt a trend that will continue into WHO.

Personally after seeing how mythic run their servers and not having to navigate the completely shit opentransit routers i wouldnt touch another GOA product in my lifetime.

Stating that you want to surpass mythics support is commendable but unlikely. Being a close second would probably suffice. As it is now your (GOA's) service (the farse of a flash billing page, 24 hour update timers, lack of ingame support out of working hours - IE: primetime play!) you have your work cut out to make up all the lost ground.

 

[Ogrelin Blodig]

Good luck guys!

And now Req, can you consider to invite my guild to WAR-beta?

 

[Bugz]

Goodluck Req. - even though I've never agreed with the way you handled things when I/and others had issues ingame, I judge that you took those decisions with best interests at hand.

Enjoy your role at WAR, I imagine you'll have a lot of us tossers to annoy you still

Lastly, ignore the randoms posting here - when things don't go their way, they throw more toys out of the pram than toddlers alone.

 

[Barun]

Well we have been doing things. Unfortunately in the main it's not stuff that you as a player can see,.

lol, we've done stuff but u cant see it, but trust us we done something....

What are these things?

It seems like you've done fuck all

 

[Dreamor]

lol, we've done stuff but u cant see it, but trust us we done something....

What are these things?

It seems like you've done fuck all

could be stuff from refining Player Reported faults to helping the tech teams with load balancing or such..... not something you would see as in when you logon, more process' and procedures...

 

[Sollers]

Goodluck Req. - even though I've never agreed with the way you handled things when I/and others had issues ingame, I judge that you took those decisions with best interests at hand.

Enjoy your role at WAR, I imagine you'll have a lot of us tossers to annoy you still

Lastly, ignore the randoms posting here - when things don't go their way, they throw more toys out of the pram than toddlers alone.

So you never agreed with Req and how he handled things, but still you feel like kissing up so much that you flame the paying customers that post here who confront Req with the things he messed up.

Get yourself a backbone you bawbag, you are as useful as a tit with no nipple.

 

[Esselinithia]

It will include all of those things and more with the sole exception of an official forum. There will be a beta forum but not a live one. The reasons for not having an official forum are precisely the same as the ones Mark Jacobs of Mythic laid out here.

Requiel: While I see the reasons posted as valid ones, and true for many games, and they are perfectly reasonable. Sadly, there is one thing we have to add to the picture: For some reasons people use forums for various reasons, like building up raids.

DAoC, even in Europe, had several advantages over World of Warcraft, we can name many tools tha help to manage communities (like /as, ability to claim structures, player and guild owned structures) and an LFG tool that is better than what WoW have even now. Yet, for many reasons, we see that how the community depends on forums.

Not because it is impossible to build a raid without a forum. But because if you want to meet many members of the community, it is good to be able to advertise. Also forums are good when you plan events, or want to discuss them. If the forum is official it can add to its security and safety and it is considered as a good service.

Of course there are 4 things you can do: Have an official forum. Look for some company that runs forums as a service (professionals). Look for existing community hubs and be active on them. Or just hide.

I think the emount of bad comments is the same in all cases. Of course I can understand the motive to say: we don't run forums.

But why most successful portals, etc. have either a forum, or some other tools for similar discussion (Google and Yahoo groups, etc)? Because it helps in the long run. But of course the main question is: How would you reduce the impact of whine, and get most use from a such tool.

I think using an independent forum like FH didn't help. And cutting the flame is a community management related task. On any forum, if people have nothing better to post about will whine. If you start good discussion, and limit topics for some parts, and allow smaller communities to be registered with their own area, you would see a different picture.

Why? Because good content will be there. If you look at what Turbine does for Lord of the Rings online, they also plan to create their own wiki. And I think the community on the wiki won't use talk pages for flame. A forum can be managed well, or it can be realy bad, same is true for wiki, and other community drivern pages.

Managing a forum is difficult. When I speak about *official* forum, I don't speak about a single official forum run by GOA with mostly free for all discussion.

I think a good way to deal with it:
There could be a good system for signing up to events and discussing events (mostly player run ones)
Ability to see guild and personal profiles, and logged in guild members should have some mini forum.

And some "official fansite program", with some sites promoted by it, and some forums visited by GM community, but GM and E&E shouldn't get moderator status to reduce the tensions moderation can create.

As you see it would end up in a reliable service, and would cut most of the flame.

If it is official, you have some control.
If it isn't with no control it would be bad.

A full free for all official forum wouldn't be a good idea. But it doesn't mean, you should go for no forum(s) at all.

(And for the event forums: if invites, etc. can be automated, that would help a lot)

 

[Shike]

could be stuff from refining Player Reported faults to helping the tech teams with load balancing or such..... not something you would see as in when you logon, more process' and procedures...

thats not exactly something that aids in increasing the population on a dying cluster though

 

[Dreamor]

thats not exactly something that aids in increasing the population on a dying cluster though

theres nothing you can really do but offer free subs (hint hint) for something like that
But thats just the kind of thing people at GOA will make notes on so they can re-act quicker in the future.

 

[Shike]

theres nothing you can really do but offer free subs (hint hint) for something like that
But thats just the kind of thing people at GOA will make notes on so they can re-act quicker in the future.

1month free subs for closed accs and offer to buy 3 months at the price for 1 for existing customers. Then at least info the community about whats going on when it comes to the future for Dyvet. Will it be clustered? With what? When? Etc..

Ppl grow tired of the Iraqi-minister attitude Requiel had in this matter where he said all was fine and dandy despite that any older player that knows the server could argue against it and said he was wrong and now we see who was right and who was wrong and it sure as hell wasnt Requiel who was right, simple as that, even though he will claim he was right until he die of old age since that man simply refuses to ever admit that hes wrong.

Aaaanyways.. toodle dooo!

 

[Takitothemacs]

d:ream lyrics

Bye Requiel. You will be happy to know you won't be seeing me in WAR-EU.

Thought I may as well give you some pleasure from the pleasure you have given me.

Xalin, All the best in whatever you do from here on out.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

theres nothing you can really do but offer free subs (hint hint) for something like that
But thats just the kind of thing people at GOA will make notes on so they can re-act quicker in the future.

Free subs are for tight or lazy gits, as soon as they run out so do those players. Oh and its shit business sense.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Good bye req and xalin you got my msn so dont be a stranger

This says all about the professional and unbiased work of our lovely GMs. Intervention in favour of players who can't get it their way for the win.

 

[Bugz]

So you never agreed with Req and how he handled things, but still you feel like kissing up so much that you flame the paying customers that post here who confront Req with the things he messed up.

Get yourself a backbone you bawbag, you are as useful as a tit with no nipple.

Just because I never agreed with Req. actions in relation to certain things, doesn't mean that I don't doubt that he handled those things in the best way he saw. It's impossible to keep the whole player base happy - as people have conflicting views etc.

You live in a very nice world if everyone's actions are suppose to bring happiness to everyone involved with them. Mind telling us where this little world is?

I have a backbone - I also have a brain - something you lack, you tit.

 

[Sollers]

Just because I never agreed with Req. actions in relation to certain things, doesn't mean that I don't doubt that he handled those things in the best way he saw. It's impossible to keep the whole player base happy - as people have conflicting views etc.

You live in a very nice world if everyone's actions are suppose to bring happiness to everyone involved with them. Mind telling us where this little world is?

I have a backbone - I also have a brain - something you lack, you tit.

`

I think you misunderstood my point. I said you have no backbone cause you are still kissing up to req even though you never agreed with what he did. Then you start flaming people who, in contrast to you, ask req questions as to why he did what he did. That makes you backbone-less, comprendre?

You now see this has fuck all to do with me living in a world where "everyone's actions are suppose to bring happiness to everyone involved with them". I would reply further to this issue but I'm completely left in the dark how you link the 2 matters.

 

[AngelHeal]

It will include all of those things and more with the sole exception of an official forum. There will be a beta forum but not a live one. The reasons for not having an official forum are precisely the same as the ones Mark Jacobs of Mythic laid out here.

Please tell me that you won't be posting at warhammeralliance, that website is full of (what was the english word again?) bollox.

warhammeralliance is not logical setup like this forum is.
And you can clearly see it's made by people that played WoW.

 

[Dutch_NS]

So you gonna be english gm of warhammer already? Hmm fun its not even in beta so you gonna lean back 6/7 months?

Glad i moved to US servers, Its not a sinking ship? LOL the rats are jumping overboard already, let me translate the text:

Hello we @ goa dont care anymore about the english community.. so we fire xalin and i will be playing warhammer for abit till it releases, as for the low population.. haha we dont care hahahahah just pay us but we aint gonna do shit.

Thats how this post makes me feel,

WTS RR11 NIGHTSHADE with 10+ other lvl 50 on the account and lots of plats

I thought goa would cluster the servers someday so i could return to europe but seriously FOCK IT!!

 

[Bugz]

`

I think you misunderstood my point. I said you have no backbone cause you are still kissing up to req even though you never agreed with what he did. Then you start flaming people who, in contrast to you, ask req questions as to why he did what he did. That makes you backbone-less, comprendre?

You now see this has fuck all to do with me living in a world where "everyone's actions are suppose to bring happiness to everyone involved with them". I would reply further to this issue but I'm completely left in the dark how you link the 2 matters.

I think you are mis-understanding my point. I'm saying that I don't see how I am kissing up to Req by bidding him goodbye whilst telling him to ignore the whining little fucks who are ruining the thread.

But oh wise one, tell me how responses such are 'care' and 'thank fuck your leaving' are asking Req why he did what he did? Those that did ask such questions however, asked then again & again even after they had been answered numerous times.

I don't know how he managed to not blow his top before-hand. The shit attitude of some here is anger-inducing

I better not wish you goodluck again Req. or I'll have no backbone! lol. Such shit talk.

 

[Esselinithia]

1month free subs for closed accs and offer to buy 3 months at the price for 1 for existing customers. Then at least info the community about whats going on when it comes to the future for Dyvet. Will it be clustered? With what? When? Etc..

Ppl grow tired of the Iraqi-minister attitude Requiel had in this matter where he said all was fine and dandy despite that any older player that knows the server could argue against it and said he was wrong and now we see who was right and who was wrong and it sure as hell wasnt Requiel who was right, simple as that, even though he will claim he was right until he die of old age since that man simply refuses to ever admit that hes wrong.

Aaaanyways.. toodle dooo!

Requiel was wrong many times, never admited it, and will be wrong again, and won't admit it. Why? Because he represents GOA. Or to be more clear. Represent France Telecom. Are you perfectly happy with both your ISP and your phone company? Probably no. And people who represent these companies aren't happy either. But they have to represent the company, and should say it is good.

Requiel has a few extra issues but who isn't?

BUT when you say: It should be free subs, what makes you think it would work?

A few hints:

While DAOC USA loses population at a semi constant rate, in case of EU there is a bigger problem: At winter and summer there are traditional low times, and people simply don't come back to play.

Some of these people don't come back even when they have active subs, when they played recently. They won't come back, if they left recently, and if they are playing elsewhere it is a problem.

Requiel and Xalin left, nothing we can do about it, and nothing we can do about the plans GOA has. But we know one thing: When summer is here, many people will have other stuff to do, and play less. With this, we will see another drop in population, and less chance to do things.

Some people will try greener grass elsewhere and it will make the problem worse, etc. And most people who see it is worse than before they went inactive or went elsewhere won't come back. Free subs isn't the best way to handle this problem.

Before Prydwen crash, many people had faith in GOA even if they claimed OT is the only backbone (which wasn't true), that they have nothing to do with France Telecom and their ISPs (when they are part of the same company), when they said that you can't give new ideas to a GM (when there was screenshot where GM says otherwise). After Prydwen crash a lot of this faith was lost.

Some people left, and this new spiral of loosing people started. At first many still trusted GOA, and many still had most friends online. But each and every small problem where GOA was slow made the concern deeper. Each and every time your friends moved to some new places the community became more and more fragmented. It became a reason to leave while it was a good reason to stay before.

With a few such cycles, a big push when classic arrived, many problems and the continuing population problem, some raids and small communities destroyed, many guilds disbanded, it got worse and worse. And what we seen with the decline of classic was enough to kill most of the remaining faith.

Lack of communication, lack of motive to go back... Lack of motive to play if you don't speak about daily routine. And a summer is coming, with some community management is lost, and with some deep population problem. Will people come back after a week or two long vacation? If many won't and the problem gets worse, what can be done?

GOA needs massive changes. Free subs won't change anything IF people has no reason to play and stay even if they have subs open. Using warhammer online beta key as rewards, etc. can make people a bit more motivated, something realy new, realy different, more added value, etc. would be good as well.

 

[Shike]

Free subs are for tight or lazy gits, as soon as they run out so do those players. Oh and its shit business sense.

Eh? You obviosly are a millionare, selfmade with your brilliant businessideas about loyalisation and showing good faith in a situation that really required it? No? Didnt think so either.. You underestimate the value of good will and good customerrelations at this time in the game completely.

If GOA was anywhere remotely smart they would realise the value of 1.88 inc.. old closed chars collecting dust with tons of BPs, buy MLs, buy Artis, buy it all, group up and go out and have fun in RvR. Give all those old accounts a free months sub and advertise it properly and some people would return. For existing accounts, give 3 months for the price of one to boost population for a while so that the action at least has a chanse to recover abit, at same time announce clusternews with some good news, perhaps a possible frontiercluster with some german or french (prefer german tbh!) cluster for Dyvet? and I seriosly dont doubt that it would mean increased revenues until WAR is out. Prefer if this would happen like, tomorrow.

Chanses of anything like this happening is one in a hundred though I guess!, what happens is that GOA gives nothing, no news for another month, complete cluster with some frenchies which language i cannot understand at all since english and french is about as similar as a duck and a pig, then they proceed to claim it has all been thought through, it ends with another databasecrash that corrupts all english chars, its Mythics fault ofc and they cant restore the chars nor equipment and finally GOA finish it off with saying, you get a free months sub in WAR once its out next year, grats irl mates and its all working as intended, VIVE LE FRANCE!

Did I mention, DOOM?!

(yes.. im 100% serious!..^^)

 

[disdain]

This says all about the professional and unbiased work of our lovely GMs. Intervention in favour of players who can't get it their way for the win.

haha yep. newbie cried to mr msn-mate, and requiel saw an oppertunity to vent his anger from getting pwnt in rvr.