Changes at Goa

[Cromcruaich]

forum with ingamelogin to be allowed to post and nazimodding is the only way it ever will work 100% over a long time Conway.

THEN it will be significant, not otherwise.

Look at VN for example, thats as close as an official gameforum for DAoC you can come and that places is just horrific and has always been. FH is just a little fart in the ocean and has no real significance in any way at all Which in its turn makes us all, even you... unsignificant, not only the flamers and tossers ^^

You all have significance to me, so we're all significant together. I hugs you all.

 

[Shike]

You all have significance to me, so we're all significant together. I hugs you all.

haha

well significance can ofc be relevant on a personal basis! But when it comes to community vs gamecompany FH sadly isnt that important I think, I really dont and never really did either, thus my choice of path here with a more.. controversial way of communicating overall.
GOA does as GOA see fit and they kindof always did nomatter what people have written on both BW and FH.

Nah.. the icelandic gamecompany CCP did it right imo, a real official forum with devs, GMs and CMs posting, open devdialougue constantly with live blogs from devs and there is always info around the game, past present and more importantly the future. Thats a company that both GOA and Mythic has alot to learn from, both when it comes to public relations and how to deal with the community in open ways and where the community actually is very significant in many ways since they through a heavily moderated channel can put forth their arguments and thoughts.

 

[chretien]

Nah.. the icelandic gamecompany CCP did it right imo, a real official forum with devs, GMs and CMs posting, open devdialougue constantly with live blogs from devs and there is always info around the game, past present and more importantly the future. Thats a company that both GOA and Mythic has alot to learn from, both when it comes to public relations and how to deal with the community in open ways and where the community actually is very significant in many ways since they through a heavily moderated channel can put forth their arguments and thoughts.

Again that's a matter of opinion.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Hehe I never wasted time on CCP forums and I played Eve from the day of release for quite some time. Right from the start they were nazi in the extreme regarding negative feedback. It simply wasn't worth posting.

 

[Shike]

Again that's a matter of opinion.

what does that have to do with what I actually wrote?

 

[Shike]

Hehe I never wasted time on CCP forums and I played Eve from the day of release for quite some time. Right from the start they were nazi in the extreme regarding negative feedback. It simply wasn't worth posting.

Try posting something negative about Mythic on VNboards Roo.. And tbh, since its an official board they are totally correct when they nazimod, nothing weird in that. Otoh.. bring up a logically explained argument and it is there in a place where the company actually reads it.

What I like the most is the open discussions about most things concerning the game, they arent hiding much info at all and they do listen to when the community has concerns.. Take the recent nerfing of nanoships.. they were quite OP'd and they took a balanced choice and nerfed it to more normal standards, no big fuzz or anything and there wasnt really any big whines at all. Compare that to how Mythic have handeled things and well.. its like night and day imho at least. Its just a small example but it says quite alot about how different it actually is MMO vs MMO. I do wish Mythic had the same policy tbh.. DAoC would have been an even better game than it is then

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Well I don't post on VN (and have never spent wild amounts of time there) so can't comment about what goes on there. I just remember the CCP boards as I used to mosey around there a fair bit in the early days of Eve (played for about a year and a half I think).

 

[Flimgoblin]

what does that have to do with what I actually wrote?

Thats a company that both GOA and Mythic has alot to learn from, both when it comes to public relations and how to deal with the community in open ways and where the community actually is very significant in many ways since they through a heavily moderated channel can put forth their arguments and thoughts.

You're right, they have a lot to learn from CCP. How not to inspire trust in your player base

Even if we assume all the dev-cheating allegations are false (though one in the past wasn't...) then CCP still have a huge perception problem - people are very quick to believe that their devs are crooked, the latest "joining corp" incident shouldn't have been a "threadnaught" it should have been a simple explanation from the dev involved. Instead there were petitions closed (petitions being rightnow's) and huge threads on the eve forums (which were also closed down for several days).

A game reliant on hardcore pvp and hardcore player-run economics relies on people thinking it's fair.

* CCP to date has done a spectacularly bad job of community management. I haven’t addressed this much publically, because it goes against my wish to never speak ill of competitors. But this could have been handled better. Much better. In particular, CCP has a habit of making posts they dislike not locked, but disappear. That makes it appear as though they have something to hide… even if they don’t. And it gives credence to those who allege that they do.

 

[Shike]

You're right, they have a lot to learn from CCP. How not to inspire trust in your player base

Even if we assume all the dev-cheating allegations are false (though one in the past wasn't...) then CCP still have a huge perception problem - people are very quick to believe that their devs are crooked, the latest "joining corp" incident shouldn't have been a "threadnaught" it should have been a simple explanation from the dev involved. Instead there were petitions closed (petitions being rightnow's) and huge threads on the eve forums (which were also closed down for several days).

A game reliant on hardcore pvp and hardcore player-run economics relies on people thinking it's fair.

Some of the devissues are true and I think CCP has handeled it ok-ish at least, kindof hard for them to have a plan ready when their own turn against them and naturally its a disaster, nobody is saying anything else about that at all. What I meant was the open dialougue about the game itself, the development and changes to dynamics and the mechanics too.
EVE cover so much more than DAoC does if you look at the depth in the game, DAoC is a kidsgame in comparison and perhaps that has something to do with it.. hard to say really. I just seriosly think that the info I as a player get from CCP, both about the game and the future and the playerdriven possibilitys (just look at EVE-tv that Xyliana from DAoC has alot of fingers in) are so much better overall. The responses I've had about ingameissues has also been nothing but superb, im not joking here at all. Before I used to think Mythic did a great job of handeling things in comparison but now I gotta say that I think CCP > Mythic >>>>> GOA. Also rememeber that EVE actually still grows, after a couple of years and I firmly believe CCP's ways of doing things is a huge part as to why.

Dont get me wrong, I lub DAoC, hell I've played it since beta and got nearly 2 years ingametime, the comparison I make is strictly between the forums and communications about the game publically and well, I still think CCP does it very very good in comparison, Mythic has managed on their own to actually kill off numbers from their own servers by many flawed decisions (the best example here is actually to leave radar be for so long as they did, pure idiocy if u ask me heh.., buffbots is another issue, the overkill when swinging the nerfbat is yet another, the tradition to make new classes completely overpowered and yet further run down old classes is pure bullcrap too, the pure negligence of the community about alot of things.. comes to my mind here first and foremost but, the two biggest mistakes they ever did was 1) the teamleaderconcept.. absolute and complete idiocy since those teamleaders wasnt employees by Mythic and they actually allowed idiots to represent classes and speak on the behalf of the playerbase. Idiocy at its best.. That was the best way to ever undermine any trust in Mythic I think. The second really big mistake was to not use a real official forum and use real channels for the community, really referring back to TL's here again since those for a long time was the only way to actually put forth proper suggestions and discussions about classbalances and also RVRbalances and realmimbalances. Europe also had no real say at all here which was really silly.. Some TL's was really really good and they had a functional brain and also some diplomatic manners such as the rangerTL and some others too but there are many that was utter jokes..

I said it before and... I'll do it again. A forum with ingamelogins and hard moderation and make it official. Best way imo. If you got any better ideas then feel free to put it forth

 

[Sharkith]

A game reliant on hardcore pvp and hardcore player-run economics relies on people thinking it's fair.

Eve is not reliant on that though. The metagame (defined here as primarily focussed on forums and out of game organisations to make it happen) is not the game as a whole. You can play Hardcore PvP Eve in a 2-16 man corp, you can play solo PvP as a pirate. You can develop your corp how you like to.

Nothing tells you that you 'have' to build 0.0 Player owned structures and 0.0 stations. Thats the metagame where forums and politics and nasty things like Spies and Devs being biased crops up. Like I said you can choose how to play. Not only this they produce a magazine for the game that is professional (bloody expensive though!) and something to look forward to when it is due. There is a culture about the game - sadly DAOC never got that far even though it really still rocks in a major way PvP wise.

 

[Conway]

I said it before and... I'll do it again. A forum with ingamelogins and hard moderation and make it official. Best way imo.

I agree. I'm playing on a game with exactly that system, and it works much better. Lots more communication.

 

[Esselinithia]

Shike: A communiction tool is as good as the communication implemented with it. The biggest problem with the forums, in most cases, is simple: A good company wants to hear the negative feedback (helps to improve) but doesn't want to share the same feedback with potential customers. Also doesn't want to make your negative feelings stronger by showing: How many people agree with it even outside of your friends.

So in most cases the companies doesn't want to use forums for this kind of feedback. While forums have a good advantage: Multiple people can discuss ideas to improve the game.

You, shown pretty clear why it would be pointless to use a forum for this purpose, you don't agree on anything, make personal attacks, and show no useful ideas. Such behavior that we seen from many people like you makes using forums pointless.

Also your idea about official forums: I think the game login only idea doesn't work well, and wouldn't work well. While MMORPG market has only very few solid examples, in some other cases you see good attempts: Like on bioware forums.

You can ask questions before you buy the game, you can get to know the community, but most important topics are reserved for the players who actually bought the game.

About Eve Online: CCP gains new players, and most of the negative feelings after the scandals leads to more conflict between the alliances in question. If you want to have such stories, your community managers should try to influence the community in many ways, how do you know that these scandals aren't intentional, and aren't designed to start conflicts?

Often negative feelings can keep people occupied with games and shows, how anyone can judge these events then? Of course almost noone can. But it doesn't make CCP communication good.

Why? Because many people avoid the forum, so you get only one side of the story in it, your main source of information cannot be the forum itself. So your forum lost a lot of value. Hint: CCP people who are playing in various communities and discuss the game with players, and listen to ideas are a stronger communication channel for CCP.

Also there are other visible or less visible ways to learn about problems: Including their own statistics, etc. they might have many tools to identify trouble spots, etc. you know much about them? Do you see the whole picture?

 

[Labbe]

** offtopic

Shike: A communiction.... *random statements built on random inputs*

Your posts are the best.
You write like you try to represent someone/something, but somehow you miss all the data/background.
Fun stuff!

** offtopic

 

[Shike]

Shike: A communiction tool is as good as the communication implemented with it.

This is the only thing I want to answer shortly.. A communication is as good as the frames allow it to be, aka, the rules of the communication tool. Period.

I really cant be assed to answer the rest of your post, its no point at all since I know you dont discuss.. you keep monolougues and as soon as someone huffs and puffs on your castles built of air you try and divert with alot of random nonconsise rubbish. I just cant be bothered with you, sorry.

Try to listen more to what people actually say and try to build logical arguments built on facts rather than your own created theories which hold no ground. Then I'll bother with you again, until then, sayanora.

(just think like this.. why on earth is it so that so many say what I just said to you? Is it everyone else who ofc is wrong?? Or can it *gasp* be so that you actually are wrong..? I usually tend to think I'm wrong if many many disagree with me and then I analyze why it is so and if im wrong I simply admit it, which is what differs me from you in the end. I try to analyze and listen to others and rely on facts, you only seem to be interested in seeing your own words based on... god knows what they actually are based on lol.. )

Just some friendly advice.

 

[Shike]

I agree. I'm playing on a game with exactly that system, and it works much better. Lots more communication.

yep I can imagine so, since devs etc dare to stick their noses out too without getting limbs chopped off the second they hit the postbutton. That security is absolutely needed for them I think.

Which forum is it? Im curios

 

[Downanael]

yep I can imagine so, since devs etc dare to stick their noses out too without getting limbs chopped off the second they hit the postbutton. That security is absolutely needed for them I think.

Which forum is it? Im curios

I use my wildcard and bet on WoW forums.

 

[Shike]

hmm maybe I never really looked much into those since I got to lvl28 in wow and then decided it was boring :<

edit: went lil OT here, soz

 

[Esselinithia]

This is the only thing I want to answer shortly.. A communication is as good as the frames allow it to be, aka, the rules of the communication tool. Period.

Try to listen more to what people actually say and try to build logical arguments built on facts rather than your own created theories which hold no ground. Then I'll bother with you again, until then, sayanora.

(just think like this.. why on earth is it so that so many say what I just said to you? Is it everyone else who ofc is wrong?? Or can it *gasp* be so that you actually are wrong..? I usually tend to think I'm wrong if many many disagree with me and then I analyze why it is so and if im wrong I simply admit it, which is what differs me from you in the end. I try to analyze and listen to others and rely on facts, you only seem to be interested in seeing your own words based on... god knows what they actually are based on lol.. )

Just some friendly advice.

I will answer these.

1st: The tool for communication alone doesn't dictate how efficiently you will use it, so your statement is false. Rightnow as a tool is quite efficient and quite popular and works well in most cases. but you are unhappy with it. Why? Decause GOA doesn't make a good use of it.

2nd: interestingly: why mostly people who make such personall attacks against everyone who doesn't agree with me make such attacks against me?

Look at the attacks you made against most non soloers who doesn't agree with you, and look at such attacks from other people. In most cases, they attacked blindly when I said fixing dyvet problem will be long and it will hurt the game. Becuase they knew it will be fast. Did the more people flaming makes us right attitude make it happen? No.

You said with the changes from GOA they will lose more players and kill the game. In the weeks followed this incident the people playing the game increased.

Increased in a period of time when it normally decreases in other years, increased... when I know quite a few friends who were happy with the changes and started playing again.

Your oppinion counts exactly nothing. Same goes for most of the people who only make attacks, and thinks: "you know nothing about rvr" is a superior reason, to support their claim of numbers dropping, when numbers actually get higher.

Maybe in your illusionary world you reasoning is valid, but otherwise it isn't. And before you speak about the future, let me make one guess:

Normally population starts to drop in late may early june for summer, and also in december for the winter. The problem is: people don't tend to return after this leave. The current news, and changes delayed this drop, but at the summer many will leave, and not all tends to come back. But it isn't because the insults against you, but because it happens every year. And looks like this year will be better than most.

Why? Because the changes to CoC, because GOA stepping up to protect some players, etc.

You think you know: When your actions make ME and MY friends sad more than anyone. Guess what: I know when I am sad, and my games is ruined. Not you, and not your arrogant, agressive fellows.

The moment you accept this, you will also see: that if you want to reduce conflict you shouldn't ruin the game of others. And it will only work when you know their interests and doesn't assume it is the same as yours.

We see how dyvet community reacts. Do you think GOA is different for the french? Do you think their CoC didn't get updated for them? Yet they have no scandals. Why? because such community.

You had exactly same problems when I wasn't here, so you can't blame it on me, but can blame it on yourself and the people like you. When you accept this, maybe you will have less problems in game.

Till that, I hope you will meet a lot of adds.

Also about CCP: hint. People told you, the forums, pages, etc. deal with such topics, people who care for them tend to be unhappy and they tell it, they complain about nazi moderation and lack of communication. BUT the good reason to protect CCP: the game works because it isn't only about this community.

It isn't about the forum. It isn't about the people who care the forum. It works not because the forum is greatly useful, but it works because the forum has little effect. It doesn't make the forum look good.

Hint 2. We haven't seen an agreement between soloers and people who posted they don't lik dueling rings. Not with anyone. Nothing built up, no solution. Why? Because the likes of you responded to anything and everything with personal attacks, and you haven't posted any solution. Nothing.

Hint 3. To undestand why people left and to try to get them back to the game, you need to communicate with people who left, not with people who stay. Why? Because they are different in wants, tolerance levels, etc. Sadly on dyvet, people who can still stand dyvet and play on it, is the minority in the overal community.

And even in this community "fair numbered fight" crew is a minority,

Hint 4. I understand what you love in fair numbered fights, and I know what I would need to stay happy. You only know what makes you happy, but doesn't know what would be good for my playing style.

Why? because you refuse to understand. People who don't know are normal people, people who refuse to learn and use personal attacks are bigger problems.

To me you can solo all you want, since you might want that, some friends might want that. As long as I, and my friends, have a chance to enjoy the game. The moment it is destroyed by you (and iRvR) I won't have reasons to respect you. When the problem is discussed and you claim you know everything and doesn't make a signle intelligent proposal and you think you know what would make me happy more than anyone and start flaming because I don't agree that makes you look silly.

Some of your friends said: Getting items in PVE and getting them in dueling ring is exactly the same. What would it mean: that if you don't attack me, I shouldn't add on you. We both can respect each others fight. But the difference is: dueling rings aren't part of the game design, missions are.

I haven't seen your proposal to make both sides happy. Only insults.
You have seen that I suggested a way to identify who wants help, who doesn't. Who wants to solo, who wants to PVE. (using dye on a single armor piece)

You can flame and claim you know a better way to handle problems, but if you don't present your way, and when asked about it, just flame and demand everyone should go by your style that just makes you look like an agressive and arrogant moron.

And the amount of people who left because encounters with the likes of you made them sad, and the destroyed community on dyvet can show how common such problems are.

HOnestly, if you post in numbers, you register 100 more FH accounts that won't make you right.

Know what will make you right?

When you say: Ok esse, if you want to get items by missions, and soloers attack you when you do them, you can get your mission done this way, because we won't stop then.

Something I haven't seen from you.

You said you know such ways and everyone should know a such way.
Yet you failed to present any, and demand everyone should focus on your playing style instead.

Even with low money, and low resources, low technical problem: The community I run expands everyday.

The community where you determine the mood loses people every day, and makes people more and more bitter everyday. And you think it makes you right? Get a clue and start thinking.

 

[Thorwyn]

Roflmao

 

[Cromcruaich]

Has anyone ever read Ulysses by James Joyce, reminds me of Ess's posts ...

 

[Thorwyn]

Has anyone ever read Ulysses by James Joyce, reminds me of Ess's posts ...

No, I haven´t.

Why? Because it´s a long book with many pages. And as a communication platform, books are not really efficient.

Why? Because you can only read, not post. And posting is esselinithial (no pun intended). Otherwise it´s a one-way communication and that´s bad.

There are three types of bookreaders.

a. the happy ones. No problem there, they´re just reading away and are not causing any problems.

b. the unhappy readers. It´s the authors job to entertain them. Why? Easy, because he´s getting payed for it.

c. the semi-readers. They´re somewhere between the happy readers and the unhappy readers, but can´t decide which side they belong to. And this causes grief and anger. Both of which could have been avoided if Joyce wouldn´t have written the book.

 

[Cromcruaich]

No, I haven´t.

Why? Because it´s a long book with many pages. And as a communication platform, books are not really efficient.

Why? Because you can only read, not post. And posting is esselinithial (no pun intended). Otherwise it´s a one-way communication and that´s bad.

There are three types of bookreaders.

a. the happy ones. No problem there, they´re just reading away and are not causing any problems.

b. the unhappy readers. It´s the authors job to entertain them. Why? Easy, because he´s getting payed for it.

c. the semi-readers. They´re somewhere between the happy readers and the unhappy readers, but can´t decide which side they belong to. And this causes grief and anger. Both of which could have been avoided if Joyce wouldn´t have written the book.

Priceless, but gotta spread rep around before you get another one.

 

[Shike]

am I a bad person for not even reading that textwall? I just cant be arsed :I

 

[Craft]

Maybe a moderator could / should close this post as its gone a bit off topic now?

 

[Sharkith]

am I a bad person for not even reading that textwall? I just cant be arsed :I

OK let me summarise:

Something about rightnow and GOA, something about people who flame and then flame him/her.

I think I got mezzed after that because I lost myself...

 

[Congax]

lawl, this is madness.

(!)

 

[joap]

I will answer these.

Increased in a period of time when it normally decreases in other years, increased... when I know quite a few friends who were happy with the changes and started playing again.

Where do you get this increase data from?

Looking at the population graphics for Excalibur Stats for Dark Age of Camelot servers

and from Prydwen Stats for Dark Age of Camelot servers

i don't see much of a change from the longtime trend.

Your oppinion counts exactly nothing. Same goes for most of the people who only make attacks, and thinks: "you know nothing about rvr" is a superior reason, to support their claim of numbers dropping, when numbers actually get higher.

If you're trying to point out that the other guy was behaving as an arrogant SOB....well....the way you said it wasn't quite flatering for you....

Hint 2. We haven't seen an agreement between soloers and people who posted they don't lik dueling rings. Not with anyone. Nothing built up, no solution. Why? Because the likes of you responded to anything and everything with personal attacks, and you haven't posted any solution. Nothing.

The words are in english but, maybe because i'm not a native english speaker I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying. I wish you'd spend a little more time proof reading before posting to clarify your ideas.

To me you can solo all you want, since you might want that, some friends might want that. As long as I, and my friends, have a chance to enjoy the game. The moment it is destroyed by you (and iRvR) I won't have reasons to respect you.

Esse, i'm sorry but i believe you are in the minority when it comes to iRvR.
Let's assume people are rational and those who dislike iRvR stay away from iRvR zones.
Now ask yourself, when there is iRvR where do most people go to? Straight to the iRvR zones.

Some of your friends said: Getting items in PVE and getting them in dueling ring is exactly the same. What would it mean: that if you don't attack me, I shouldn't add on you. We both can respect each others fight. But the difference is: dueling rings aren't part of the game design, missions are.

Having a zone where people go for 8v8 fights isn't by game design, and still it exists in Limors.

Even with low money, and low resources, low technical problem: The community I run expands everyday.

I don't understand, what do you mean by "the community i run"?

 

[Mey]

On a related note the new GM posted a reply to my thread in general his name is Roaken (or something similar).

 

[Shike]

/cries..

need more beers! Essens post still makes zero sense to me :<

 

[Thadius]

Same old stuff from Esse that has been said 10000000 times before

Jst leave it ffs Esse, noone gives a shit about what you think anymore. Toy keep on bringing up the same arguments and now its just boring and repetetive