Catacombs = no new players

[Skaven]

Don't think people are 'miffed' at what you guys are doing, personally you and requiel have been a breath of fresh air considering the support we've had in the past.
I can imagine it's frustrating as your the public figure of GOA, so your first in the firing line but don't be put off by someone saying 'yeah your shit'. The majority of us appreciate what your doing behind the scenes trying to pull the powers that be in the right direction (I know how hard that can be).

 

[Corran]

Requiel and I pass along whatever we think is relevent including the problems with subscription, game bugs, as well as things like the problems with distribution... unfortunately we are indeed the minnows on the great foodchain... however we will keep pushing for the things we think are important as, believe it or not, we do actually care about what is going on on the English servers.

Uh hem can I just point one thing out and it is an observation of human nature... if you slag the two of us off and have a go at us we are fairly unlikely to take whatever it is you are complaining about seriously... talk to us in a constructive manner and we're far more likely to go to bat for you with the powers that be.

Totally understandable that, it always a pain being the one in the line of fire when you always go out your way to try help, people dont realise most the time that you listen to them, its your bosses that dont listen to you and as such make the palyer feel ignored.

Anyways, there will always be some of the community willing to come to you in a civil mannor and as such you should feel free to approach them too as you should know by now

 

[SevenSins]

I saw something very cheesy a few months ago, didn't think it was worth mentioning untill now.

Some Wanadoo adverts here in Holland, mainly the "We can be heroes." one, Wanadoo use DAoC as a product of their own, i.e: There is a very short (0.2/3 sec) flash inside that advert that shows 3 kobolds and a troll using /victory.

Either they have some sort of contract with Mythic (or legal stuff) that doesn't allow them to make TV Adverts longer than 1 second bringing DAoC and Wanadoo in the same advert.

I'm just guessing though, have absolutely no idea about it, but maybe this could be why their Marketing department doesn't even slightly focus on TV Ads?

And maybe puts them off doing further marketing aswell?

 

[Mysteriax]

Its quite sad to see that the advertising in all countries except for germany and france is well non existing. On the other habd the advertising in germany and france is quite good.
Even from the population you can see where it is advertised well and where its not.
English servers doesnt cover english speaking countriesm it also covers scandinavia, the netherlands belgium greece hungary spain etc. You cant tell me that the total population of those countries are twice as small as France, because france has 2x the servers english speaking people have.
Therefore you can see that advertising failed everywhere except germany and france.
Ok I know some people are still playing on american servers but i dont think that amount is big enough to fill 2 servers.

 

[Samaroon EatsCheese]

what if they spend too much on adverts that they go bankrupt ? :eek2:

 

[Rulke]

what if they spend too much on adverts that they go bankrupt ? :eek2:

I've seen some pretty top notch player made movies that would work brilliantly as advertisments, I imagine someone with a GM account could do much better what with being able to start events, go anywhere or fly about and get some nice views.

 

[UndyingAngel]

If you look @ the trailor on teh Camelot-europe website for the orignal Dark age of camelot I reckon this would be a great for TV altho it would be need, to be done with updated gfx.. and add NF seans to it. from all teh trailors iv seen they dont show what I call the "end game" which for most is RvR, tho there is still plenty of PvE xD

 

[Awarkle]

given access to scripting tools + empty server i could probbaly put together a fine video showing all three realms classic/si/toa/nf probbly in that order.

I mean you remember when you first saw toa some of the places are truely beautiful creations (even if the pve bit sucks) or some of the transformations.

With a proper script and practice you could probbly put together a really nice animation covering several raids or master level encounters you know the large 150+ peeps zerging the dragon or galladoria / tuscern glacier... avalon city.

If you put together a movie then sent it off to say pc gamer im sure those peeps somtimes host movies like that.

But would probbly need a slightly more profesional feel to instead of


N000beh was just killed by Yourmumsucksgoats. Sort of thing

it would probbly have to be done on a stable system with maybe 100 peeps from each realm each rolling a different character being equiped with epics maybe artifact cloaks. Glowy weapons (yeah not all glowsy are good) having the encounters tweeked to be doable with those numbers. Say a good range of different characters / classes IE not 100 fotm chars

starting with albion (it is camelot after all) going through mid hib and then finally finishing with a big battle around a keep

 

[UndyingAngel]

given access to scripting tools + empty server i could probbaly put together a fine video showing all three realms classic/si/toa/nf probbly in that order.

I mean you remember when you first saw toa some of the places are truely beautiful creations (even if the pve bit sucks) or some of the transformations.

With a proper script and practice you could probbly put together a really nice animation covering several raids or master level encounters you know the large 150+ peeps zerging the dragon or galladoria / tuscern glacier... avalon city.

If you put together a movie then sent it off to say pc gamer im sure those peeps somtimes host movies like that.

But would probbly need a slightly more profesional feel to instead of


N000beh was just killed by Yourmumsucksgoats. Sort of thing

it would probbly have to be done on a stable system with maybe 100 peeps from each realm each rolling a different character being equiped with epics maybe artifact cloaks. Glowy weapons (yeah not all glowsy are good) having the encounters tweeked to be doable with those numbers. Say a good range of different characters / classes IE not 100 fotm chars

starting with albion (it is camelot after all) going through mid hib and then finally finishing with a big battle around a keep

Thats exactly what I was thinking would be great todo and not hard at all...
I personly would love to see a lot more ppl join the game, and I hope "the powers that be" will do somthing to ensure DAoC will continue.

 

[Awarkle]

would if it would pay goa to have a little competiton by using story boards to design an advertisment for dark age in europe to be hosted on this site ? somthing that peeps could download to see what the game is all about because stills are all very nice but i dont think you can get the feel for the game ?

or would it be against some stupid agreement somewhere.

 

[Leathas]

<cough>
I saw 3 mids doing /victory near some beach in daoc in some tv channels,in wanadoo ad's
weird

 

[Mysteriax]

<cough>
I saw 3 mids doing /victory near some beach in daoc in some tv channels,in wanadoo ad's
weird

They showed it here (the netherlands) I thouht it was a troll a keen and a briton though, but i could be wrong (seemed like mid background though). It was quite funny to see although it lasted 2 secs and only camelot players could recognise it.

 

[gervaise]

Advertising costs money: whether in the UK, Germany, France, Scandinavia. As the game is no longer 'new' the average cost per new customer will be higher now than it was 3 years ago. With the big fall in population numbers this year that must mean less money to spend.

The amount of money that Mythic get per customer is probably still the same however so he extra marketing costs will eat into GoA's profits.

Distribution of new copies. Big problem here has been Mythic's response to EQ. Sony packaging up RQ and all the expansions prior to Lost Dungeons and now they have come out with an even bigger 'single box'. Mythic have responded by creating a DAoC+SI+ToA bundle. If you are a retailer with old stock on the shelves .... and reckon that in 6 months there will be a DAoC+SI+ToA+ Catacombs box ....

And ToA was full of bugs = bad reviews = more reasons for retailers not to stock it.

 

[Arkian]

Actually whatever the bugs in TOA were, the reviews I read (yes including in UK PC magazines) were all good - remember it would be really hard for a magazine reveiwer to notice/find anything other than really massive bugs in an MMORPG given the small amount of time they have to review a game.

Agree with the point about shops not wanting to stock 'old' bundles of the game, this then also creates a problem for people missing an expansion to buy it - a guildy of mine has been trying to get TOA only for ages now after returning to the game.

Advertising does cost a lot of money, especially TV advertising - the costs are obscene, and unless it can bring in more players than the cost of the advertisments (and I struggle to see how TV at least would cost in) it's simply bad business to do it.

 

[Crookshanks]

PC Format (one of the leading leisure pc magazines in the UK) dropped through the door last night. What was on the inside cover - full double spread? A great big glossy EQ2 advert.

Of course I appreciate that SOE's budget is (I presume!) way above GoA's - and EQ2 is of course being launched next week - but even so I don't think I've ever seen an advert for DAOC in any of the UK magazines.

Its not just the adverts - every month for the last 3 months there's been a (admittedly small) section on the upcoming EQ2 and WoW - but I'm yet to see mention of the NF addition which is also due shortly.

I feel sure there is a large untapped market for players in the UK - especially considering the incredible uptake of broadband here in the last 2 years. Yet most of my friends havn't even heard of it - even some of the more "geeky" gamers. It would be such a pity to see the English servers population plummet (which I think its going to with EQ2 and WoW launching) - its still a very good game.

As for distribution - why on EARTH!!! can't it be downloaded direct? All that is needed is the patcher - and a secure website which issues the key in exhange for some money. Eve can do it - so why can't DAOC?

 

[Arkian]

It's not a technical issue that prevents them from doing it, it's whatever contracts they have in place with their distributers that prevent them from doing this.

 

[Osri]

Cause they know they fucked up with TOA and dont believe in product anymore

 

[Macewan]

I'm not so sure that costly advertising would help much. Sure, sort out the distribution problems, but is a page here or there really going to make much difference?

Think about it, most MMORPG players are pretty clued up as to what games are out there. I haven't bought a PC games magazine for years, but I knew about DAoC when it came out. I didn't start playing to a year or so after, but that was because I was playing other games.

The main thing that matters is playability and quality. Before playing DAoC I played Asheron's Call 1 and 2, A Tale in the Desert, and several other minor games. DAoC is by far the best I've played.

Just keep updating the game, so graphics etc keeps up with other games, and make it as fun as possible.

 

[Fana]

I'm not so sure that costly advertising would help much. Sure, sort out the distribution problems, but is a page here or there really going to make much difference?

Think about it, most MMORPG players are pretty clued up as to what games are out there. I haven't bought a PC games magazine for years, but I knew about DAoC when it came out. I didn't start playing to a year or so after, but that was because I was playing other games.

The main thing that matters is playability and quality. Before playing DAoC I played Asheron's Call 1 and 2, A Tale in the Desert, and several other minor games. DAoC is by far the best I've played.

Just keep updating the game, so graphics etc keeps up with other games, and make it as fun as possible.

Need to bring in people that dont normaly play mmorpgs tho, as it is there is nothing that would make a total mmorpg-newbie want to chose daoc over WoW or EQ2 etc if he gets it into his head to try a massive game, since he wont know anything about daoc, but will have seen the massive adverst for the up-and-coming games.

 

[GReaper]

Although GOA might not be able to provide the full game and CD keys online, why isn't there a free trial available online?

I can understand that spending money on advertising might not be worthwhile as it probably wouldn't bring in that many new customers. However Mythic have a 7 day trial available for download online, so why doesn't GOA?

If I wanted to recommend a friend to the game, they'd have to spend £30 to get the full game with ToA just to try it? The main reason I started playing DAoC was because of the free beta trial back in December 2001 - January 2002. Make it easier to get friends to play the game!

 

[Kallisti]

Mythic activly promotes in the US but they are not the Euro publisher, GOA/Wanadoo are. I would probably guess that Mythic are regretting that decision nowadays...

I would LOVE to see more promotion of the game - you see the amount of advertising EQ does - well I guess they need to considering how crappy it is. WoW is still in beta and they are actively advertising it.

I just wish Mythic had the resources to take over the Euro operation so you guys could get a better deal.

Then again I also wish I was a millionaire...

 

[IainC]

Mythic activly promotes in the US but they are not the Euro publisher, GOA/Wanadoo are. I would probably guess that Mythic are regretting that decision nowadays...

I would LOVE to see more promotion of the game - you see the amount of advertising EQ does - well I guess they need to considering how crappy it is. WoW is still in beta and they are actively advertising it.

I just wish Mythic had the resources to take over the Euro operation so you guys could get a better deal.

Then again I also wish I was a millionaire...

We do actively promote here in Europe, we are aware that in some English speaking territories there has been less activity on the part of our PR agencies than we'd like but we have taken steps to correct that and you should be seeing the fruits of this new effort very soon. Subscriber numbers are still climbing in all communities, Germany is the largest market for DAoC outside the US itself. People who are looking for information about MMORPGs will find info, screenshots, critiques etc about DAoC on practically every site that deals with the genre. As well as that we have just split our site into two, a functional site and a shop window specifically to attract new players and those searching for a new game to play.

 

[Blitzing]

lol i come from denmark, and there have never been any advertising for daoc any where

 

[gervaise]

. Subscriber numbers are still climbing in all communities, Germany is the largest market for DAoC outside the US itself.

Have you got the current numbers? The statement seems to go against what people are seeing and the numbers being pulled off. At least the active numbers. The number of characters logged on (I won't say people due to multiple accounts) was challenging that in the US. Now its not.

Do you know why GoA stopped publishing the number of players on line? I never saw any reason and the statistics - whilst only a window on the world - were a pretty guide. Are there any plans to bring them back.

Do you have any plans to respond to the release of Lineage2 in Germany this month?

 

[Oboy]

its dosnt matter if u advert to get new players to the game bcs the new playsers wont stay.
/level destroyed any chanses of getting a group before 20 and as a new player soloing to 20 eeeek.
The endgame with daoc is fun but lvl to 50 is just dull and i think most new players given up and quit long before reaching 50.

 

[Deepfat]

We did a survey earlier this year on prydwen.net and it seems that over 70% of players own 2 or more accounts. The net "growth" of the game in terms of actual accounts being paid for has been quoted (so I'm told) at around 5% pa. If the number of accounts stayed the same when the number of buff bots went up from lets say 20% to 70%, then this represents a drop in the actual population by 1.2*1.05/1.7 = 74%, i.e. drop of 26%. There is a massive gap between the amount of actual "players" and "subscribed accounts". It's prolly fair to say that if ten players quit (without selling the accounts ofc) then 18 or so subs are lost. The fact that accounts *are* still making money when sold, is, given that such behaviour is frowned upon, ironically, keeping the game afloat to some degree.

I'm not being a doom merchant just explaining the situation in terms of "why aren't there new players" there are alot of them but you'll find them mainly at telekeeps, ToA farm spots and PL spots standing about occaisionally buffing someone or doing fop.

[Pinched some of Lairiodds maths in this thread I apologies m8]

 

[Ormorof]

If you look @ the trailor on teh Camelot-europe website for the orignal Dark age of camelot I reckon this would be a great for TV altho it would be need, to be done with updated gfx.. and add NF seans to it. from all teh trailors iv seen they dont show what I call the "end game" which for most is RvR, tho there is still plenty of PvE xD

well.... most of DAoC is PvE

RvR only really being accesible at lvl 50 with arti's etc etc (unless you count the upcoming BG's for 1-45 )

 

[Hawkwind]

Advertising costs money: whether in the UK, Germany, France, Scandinavia. As the game is no longer 'new' the average cost per new customer will be higher now than it was 3 years ago. With the big fall in population numbers this year that must mean less money to spend.

The amount of money that Mythic get per customer is probably still the same however so he extra marketing costs will eat into GoA's profits.

Distribution of new copies. Big problem here has been Mythic's response to EQ. Sony packaging up RQ and all the expansions prior to Lost Dungeons and now they have come out with an even bigger 'single box'. Mythic have responded by creating a DAoC+SI+ToA bundle. If you are a retailer with old stock on the shelves .... and reckon that in 6 months there will be a DAoC+SI+ToA+ Catacombs box ....

And ToA was full of bugs = bad reviews = more reasons for retailers not to stock it.

The whole point of marketing is to get more interest/sales in your product. If you don't market your product well, then don't expect to sell it. You make the point that it costs money and would cut into their bottom line figures. The whole ethos of marketing is to sell more of your product. Yes it costs money but you have to speculate to accumulate. That's the way it works. Not just in the computer gaming industry but 99% of all industries.

I purchased 2 copies of ToA in Paris whilst there on business as it was almost impossible to get at any store in the UK. I actually got them in a Virgin Megastore near Orly, where they had full posters up in the windows and stacks of copies on the shelves. They do market the product in France. Every game shop I saw had ToA posters up.

Before I went to Paris I had visited a Game shop in the UK and they did not even know what I was talking about. They did not even have the release date on their list.

It seems to me that GoA are only interested in their local market and don't really care about the rest. From comments others have made in Northern Europe this appears to be a fact. Its a real shame GoA cannot be arsed to try and get people ineterested. They have the rights to a good product. Yes, it could be better but still its 'probably the best MMORG out there'. How about that for a strapline.

 

[Sorro]

I just want to post some things after reading first 2 pages.

1: The game is very good, it really is, maybe those who have played 3+ years find it boring, but to a new player its damn good. There is an insane amount of stuff to do you wont get bored fast like with alot other mmorpg's.

2: I saw a comment going something like this "and how many of those accounts are buffbot accounts?" Well people, wake up... it is by FAR not only in DAoC people have more than 1 account, i had 2 in SB, i had 2 in UO (i know lots who have 4-10 in UO), and im sure there are lots who have 2+ accounts in many other mmorpg's. So do not worry about how many of those subscribers that are "second" accounts, cause it is like that in all games...

3: Remove /level, or at least make it so you only get 1 /level toon after dinging 50. I know you vets might find it sucky to level low chars, but for a new player (myself) it sucks ass to not meet new people level 20 and below. Sure there are a fair amount of low level players in the popular dungeons/places, but if more people needed to level their characters instead of /level, that would mean more action and more life to the areas where NEW players start = much more interesting than a single player game, and they would easier get to know the game @ get tips.

4: Bring all the cool old dungeons back to life, i never were here to experience the joy of (this is Hibernia) Galla raids, Tur Suil Raids, Fomor Raids etc. And some of those dungeons are damn cool, so it is quite sad to see them fade away due to ToA equip being far superior. Ofcourse i know new expansions need to bring "wanted" stuff into the game, but for the better of the game please dont forget about the old places. (redo loot there, make the epic mobs there drop better items than in ToA, IMO). It is quite pathetic that from killing a red con mob in ToA, you can get a better item than whacking Balor (mind you i have never killed Balor, but i would guess i am speaking the truth).

5: Make higher level people unable to enter low level dungeons, and add some kind of Epic Mob in those dungeons, imagine Moira Tomb/Nisse's Lair/Alb Version, having a lets say, level 50+ monster which a max lvl of 20-25 characters could kill for some very nice stuff? You would need a low lvl zerg AND the drops should be worth it... THAT i would love as a new player, and THAT would hook me even more to the game if i ever were in doubt.

6: Keep up the otherwise good work, i love this game as a new player (played 2 months), and i have tried alot of the games out there (including the game most people think will rock WoW, *cough* carebear), they ímo just arent as good. Only problem with this game is Itemized PvP, but i can live with that, have fun all!

/Wave

 

[Grimmen]

That idea about high lvls not being able to enter low lvl dungeons isnt such a bad idea imo.

Problem as I see it is that they threw in all the good stuff in ToA zones rendering the rest of them almost useless(except for a very few amount of items). An idea would be to nerf ToA equipment. Not totally but remove something that makes them appealing and add that to some of the stuff taht drops in SI/Classic zones. Just for an example lets say you remove anything with Meele speed buffing from ToA equipment and add that to equipment in maybe some dungeons in SI/Classic, wouldnt that make those zones more appealing?

I am just throwing around ideas here.