Catacombs = no new players

[Painbringer]

Hi just wanted to voice my concerns for when catacombs expansion is released over here.

I can't see there being many new players when it comes out if any as the marketing in Britain is non-existant. Mythic seem happy to not bother with Britain and just sell the game by word of mouth which is really crap. when ToA came out they was hardly any adverts in mgazines etc atll, if any. And all games magazines gave a crappy quarter of a page to review it yet they give about 6 pages to EvE and SWG etc... they gave ToA mostly above 80% but by reading the review i just feel they didn't really care enough. DAoC is one of most popular online games but mostly gets ignored by the press and marketing is horrendous. Mythic/GoA made no effort at all to promote ToA when it was released but i remember when SI came out there was alot of adverts in magazines, i remember getting a poster for SI from PCgamer with maps and stuff. I just feel British release for Catacombs will be ignored or forgotten about just like ToA was which is a shame coz daoc is one of my fave games and every year more and more ppl leave game with nearly no new players, also the fact that DAoC is nearly impossible to get hold of in Britain which is just sad.

Cmon Mythic marketing department, get yer fingers out of yer arses and do some work for a change

 

[Daedalus]

It would be pretty cool to see some kick-ass adverts in news paper and on the TV about DAoC.

 

[Ballard]

I do agree with you more marketing would be good, however...

Remember magazines pander to what the mass market likes, and no matter what you think the mass market does not like DAOC. Other MMORPGs have much higher subscription numbers. Also DAOC is quite old now, new games inevitably get more hype. How much marketing is their for the new expansion to UO?


On a side note, I certainly would not bring mythic into this. Having spent some time in the US prior to NF go live I can say there was high exposure for even this free release.

double page spreads in PC gamer and other magazines
Posters in game shops. etc
Trade show presence

(edit note
I also remember going into stores in NY and seeing literarily whole rows of shelves devoted to MMORPGS, with like 50 copies of daoc waiting to be bought...

All the variations as well Plain DAOC , DAOC + SI , DAOC + SI + TOA , SI , TOA )

 

[Painbringer]

I wasn't talking about marketing in US tho, the UK edition of pcgamer gave half a page for ToA and even then it was mostly screenshots of a lvl 1 char at pryd keep. People only like what they see from adverts and magazines, so if the marketing is non-existant then ofc the masses aren't gonna like it. 'Invite them and they will come' from waynes world 2 seems appropriate here but atm no one in Britain is being invited If they actually bothered to put some effort in and a new influx of players arrives then GOA might stop munching on frog leg sandwiches and be bothered to give us Brits a 3rd normal server to play on instead of crowding 2 servers which causes so much lag. If you look on US server populations most don't get anywhere near the amount on EU servers thus they don't complain about lag as much

 

[Escape]

Mythic or GOA aren't responsible for marketing, it's the publisher Wannado.
Although GOA could beat them into action :touch:

In games shops you can still pick up copies of UO or EQ... but not DAoC
They need to supply UK stores with DAoC and market it. They could do a 2 week free-trial, with a magazine like PC Gamer/Zone, but I think it's already too late with new games coming out at the end of this year, most people would rather start a "just released" game, than something that's 3years old.

 

[Alan]

Agreed with Escape,

they did release a trial on a PC Cover disk a while ago, wonder how many people that dragged in, was on one of the more popular game mags i think

But yeah, why will people start a 3yrs old game now - to little - too late.

 

[Axuk]

Mythic is contracted to release a paid-for expansion each year in time for the Christmas buying season.

The delay with any new patches/expansions being available to GOA means GOA can't even take advantage of Christmas sales.

 

[Ballard]

I wasn't talking about marketing in US tho, the UK edition of pcgamer gave half a page for ToA and even then it was mostly screenshots of a lvl 1 char at pryd keep. People only like what they see from adverts and magazines, so if the marketing is non-existant then ofc the masses aren't gonna like it. 'Invite them and they will come' from waynes world 2 seems appropriate here but atm no one in Britain is being invited If they actually bothered to put some effort in and a new influx of players arrives then GOA might stop munching on frog leg sandwiches and be bothered to give us Brits a 3rd normal server to play on instead of crowding 2 servers which causes so much lag. If you look on US server populations most don't get anywhere near the amount on EU servers thus they don't complain about lag as much

Aye, I hear you. I only mentioned what i did because you metioned mythic. Myhtic dont even market in the US, there publisher does. I would imagine that because of their agreement with GOA their publisher would not market directly in the UK/Europe. If GOA's publisher handled the UK distribution/marketing like the US publisher we would be okay.

Not sure about the rest of your logic there.. An 'new influx of players' would increase player caused lag (very rare situation btw most LAG is YOUR connection not the server). Another server would only be added if the existing servers populations increased to the level that 3 servers would have a similar distribution to what is on now. Most companies have a return on investment ratio that needs to be meet before new investments are made. Remember adding a server is not a cheap thing, It is not one computer, it is infact a server cluster.

 

[Painbringer]

well they need to do something to sell the game at least if Mythic want to release expansion after expansion as they have said they don't plan on making a daoc 2 but instead will do a new expansion every year instead, if they don't then i can see daoc dying in UK over the next couple of years

 

[Vae]

Agreed with Escape,

they did release a trial on a PC Cover disk a while ago, wonder how many people that dragged in, was on one of the more popular game mags i think

But yeah, why will people start a 3yrs old game now - to little - too late.

It was on PC Zone I think. I had access to the server as well and was sitting there offering advice and help to new players for a couple of evenings but I don't think I saw more than a dozen people on at one time in Albion. So I don't think it had that much effect because it was on a seperate server. If the trial had been for the main servers it might have attracted more attention or got more people to stay but a server with no people on isn't really an enticement to play the game.

 

[Cyfr]

wannadoo are shit goa are shit go figure

 

[old.Whoodoo]

I find it difficult to beleive there isnt one emloyee of a gaming magazine or TV show on here that would like to take up the challenge of contacting the publishers of DAoC for more advertising.

Yes the games near 3 years old, it still has appeal to new players, and that should be encoraged. Especially here in the UK, where we severly lack players.

So if you are, or know someone in the trade, poke them with a big stick and get some advertising done!!!!

 

[Zenythe]

Heyya

The publicity and distribution issues are something we are well aware of and are trying to change. One of the things that Requiel and I were asked to do when we were in London last weekend was to casually wander into stores that sell games and see what the availability of the DAoC stuff is... and although I would love to say that everywhere we went knew of the game and either had it in stock or could order it, I can't.
We brought the information we discovered back and reported it to the marketing guys who really didn't know as UK marketing and pub had been turned over to an outside contractor. It is now being checked into from on high.

 

[Painbringer]

cool, nice to know it is being looked into

 

[Arkian]

An important thing to note is that even with the lack of advertising, subscriber numbers for DAoC are actually pretty healthy and compare well in the industry.

Top 14 Rankings by Subscribers 04:
1. Lineage (mostly Far-East subscribers)
2. Lineage II (same story)
3. Final Fantasy XI (mostly Far-East subscribers)
4. Everquest (~420K)
5. Ragnarok Online (mostly Far-East subscribers)
6. Star Wars Galaxies (~275K)
7. Dark Age of Camelot (~250K)
8. City of Heroes (~180K)
9. Ultima Online (~160K)
10. Runescape (~100K)
11. Sims Online
12. Planet Side
13. EvE Online (~50K)
14. Asheron's Call

 

[Painbringer]

yeah but how many of those 250k are english? and how many are buffbot accounts?

plus EvE and Planetside get alot more coverage in magazines etc over here than DAoC, although i am glad sims online is near the bottom of that list

 

[Dracus]

I have to agree with most ppl posting here. I think daoc would benefit a lot from some promotion/adverts..I was out lookin for a different game a couple days back and i saw SI and Toa and the 2 different all-in-one packs almost in every store i was in(no the other game wasnt easily found )

So theres no lack of copies in Denmark as far as im concerned. I know its not the UK and there are ofc a lot more ppl living over there. But i think some form of promotion would be a very good idea

/Dracus

 

[Svartmetall]

Other MMORPGs have much higher subscription numbers.

Probably because GOA/Wanadoo make no marketing effort at all in the UK. I read the UK gaming press consistently, and GOA/Wanadoo have so far consistently failed to make any real effort to promote this game in the UK.

Reading Zenythe's post, maybe someone there will finally wake up to this a bit.

Advertising = players.
Players = revenue.
Revenue = good.

Who knows, they may even wake up enough to realise that choices are good, too, and they should be providing us Euro players with a co-op server instead of just constantly ignoring the numerous petitions there have been for one (most recently, that 36-page behemoth of a co-op server petition thread on the French DAOC forums)...a 3rd 'normal' UK server would be more likely, too, but if GOA/Wanadoo can't even be arsed to actively promote DAOC here in the UK, it's not going to happen.

More advertising = more players = more revenue = even less excuse for their continuing failure to provide us paying Euro players with the choices that paying US players get.

A more accurate title for this thread might be: "no effort from GOA/Wanadoo = no new players".

...

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Id like to see the player numbers purely for Europe, not the total. The US has more variety of servers, is a lot bgger than europe and therefore the bigger player base. I think this thread is more about how DAoC is refected here rather than in general.

Again I ask, is there no one here from a mag / TV show that can push our little community towards the public?

 

[Shanaia]

Games get most (or at least a huge portion) of their publicity trough (p)reviews in magazines/websites and television shows about games.

I've written quite a few gamereviews for a gaming website. In my 2 years I worked with them I noticed I was the only one ever (p)reviewing MMORPG's.

And it's quite simple why. Other games you can play for say 4 hours a day 3 days in a row and you have a pretty good feel for the game .. play it another couple of days and you have finished most single player games and can judge the game completely.

If you play an MMORPG for 20 hours you know dick about it... hence most reviewers wont start on it.

 

[Sendraks]

yeah but how many of those 250k are english?

How is that relevant?

and how many are buffbot accounts?

This is fair comment, rather more as a reflection of actual player numbers. If the number of BB accounts are anything to go by, you could probably reduce the player base figure by a third.

Requiel did a response some months back to a similar question regarding the marketing strategy of Mythic concerning this game and how they target the audience they think are most likely to play it.

Have to agree though, they should be doing so much more to promote this game is they wish to sustain it as a viable financial concern. Given all the hype thats been generated by WoW (and promplty shafted by Vivendi's stupidity) you'd think that Mythic would be trying to combat that by doing the same for DAoC. Of course, if you spend millions on advertising, you've got be pretty confidant of recouping your losses with an increased player base and I think we all know that the MMORPG market is not somewhere to throw large amounts of cash around at the moment, unless you're sure of making money. Instead Mythic have adopted for a cheaper approach with regards to advertising.....us.

 

[Clipse]

Now this is a good thread !!!

If I worked for mythic, things woulda been different. I have played Lineage I and II, City of Heros, SWG, Planetside, Eve and Horizonz. DAOC is by FAR the best game of all of them, one of the best games of all time. This alone, should make it the highest sucscribed game. I won't bore with the why and why nots of teh other gamnes.

Oh and another little point, if you can play a game online, you should be able to download it

 

[Painbringer]

aye i have tried EvE, Planetside and SWG and they all sucked big styleee

 

[feac]

if GoA do have a go at actually advertising please everyone beg them to use a player made movie as some of them are amazing and 100 times better than any GoA or Mythic produce

 

[Svartmetall]

Again I ask, is there no one here from a mag / TV show that can push our little community towards the public?

Well, Gamezville did feature DAOC a few months back, but it was a pretty crappy feature - they just showed like some unarmoured lvl 1 Briton running around solo near (I think) Prydwen Keep on what looked like the Classic client at low res, didn't show any cool-looking high-level stuff or big RvR battles etc that would have been a much better inducement to play the game.

Just one decent movie on covermount disks etc would do a lot of good. Hell, any promotion would be better than what GOA/Wanadoo are currently doing for DAOC in the UK.

...

 

[Corran]

Heyya

The publicity and distribution issues are something we are well aware of and are trying to change. One of the things that Requiel and I were asked to do when we were in London last weekend was to casually wander into stores that sell games and see what the availability of the DAoC stuff is... and although I would love to say that everywhere we went knew of the game and either had it in stock or could order it, I can't.
We brought the information we discovered back and reported it to the marketing guys who really didn't know as UK marketing and pub had been turned over to an outside contractor. It is now being checked into from on high.

Well i can tell you that the distribution and advertisement problems is just to do with london.

South east essex, hampshire and Glasgow area all have the same problem. It just isnt advertised and barely stored. Went into Glasgow couple months ago to try get hold of the game. Out of 5 stores 4 of them said "Sorry, i think you can only get it by downloading it online" eventually found just a single copy remaining in the 5th shop. By the way, im talking about Game (*2) virgin and HMV as being the ones that replied this. Found it in another Game store down road in the end.

I purchased 2 copies of ToA the day it was released, there was no advertising in all of glasgow and there was only 10copies available in the Game store that i purchased it from, and they told me that was their entire stock at the time.

I have never seen the game advertised in any from apart from one or two reviews in the magazines that rarely crop up. The distribution is appalling though no store will stock a game they feel wont sell because of lack of advertisement.

If this 3rd party company you speak to are meant to be actively advertising for you, then i would take a look at the contract to see what they are meant to be doing. Because i can tell you from my personal experience they dont seem to be doing anything really and as such they may not be sticking to the contract in which you formed with them. Though at a guess not much was really said on the contract and as such they are sticking to the bare minimum of what they need to do.

I would advise before even looking to release catacombs here you look into changing the advertising methods so that there is some in shops, magazines, and if you are feeling really pushy stick a small advert on tv showing the best of the game (Including high level PvE dragons etc <normally get people interest>, RvR both small battles <8v8 get player ones for this> and some large scale/relic raid fights to show the sheer level which it can go too <thou make sure it not laggy video >) This kind of thing will attract some attention at least but im guessing tv wont be shown as cost effective so make sure you make a 5minute!? or so video for inclusion on a games magazine, and with that you can add in all the new things from ToA and Catacombs etc.

Just my ramblings on the matter thou

 

[Draylor]

An important thing to note is that even with the lack of advertising, subscriber numbers for DAoC are actually pretty healthy and compare well in the industry.

Correct: but theres nothing to say how thats split between Mythic servers and GOA servers(and the far smaller Italian & Korean versions).

Nice to see GOA are at least aware of it: but they shouldve been already: the complaints over this started long long ago on the GOA-hosted forums.

Keeping boxes on store shelves 6months+ after the last expansion was released may not be realistic: but it should at least be possible to order it from Amazon etc.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Well, Gamezville did feature DAOC a few months back, but it was a pretty crappy feature - they just showed like some unarmoured lvl 1 Briton running around solo near (I think) Prydwen Keep on what looked like the Classic client at low res, didn't show any cool-looking high-level stuff or big RvR battles etc that would have been a much better inducement to play the game.

Just one decent movie on covermount disks etc would do a lot of good. Hell, any promotion would be better than what GOA/Wanadoo are currently doing for DAOC in the UK.

...

they asked on here if anyone who lived in london wanted to get involved in it but I think it just resulted in a 3 page thread of people slagging Gamezville

 

[Zenythe]

Requiel and I pass along whatever we think is relevent including the problems with subscription, game bugs, as well as things like the problems with distribution... unfortunately we are indeed the minnows on the great foodchain... however we will keep pushing for the things we think are important as, believe it or not, we do actually care about what is going on on the English servers.

Uh hem can I just point one thing out and it is an observation of human nature... if you slag the two of us off and have a go at us we are fairly unlikely to take whatever it is you are complaining about seriously... talk to us in a constructive manner and we're far more likely to go to bat for you with the powers that be.

 

[Belomar]

...

Seriously. Can you even post a single post on a general issue without asking for a co-op server? :touch: