Catacombs bah!!!

[knighthood]

Ok just thinking to myself about catacombs, this aplies to Excalibur as i dont really know what the scores are like on the other servers, but lets be honest. At the moment because of the game classes blanace Midgard and Hibernia allreay kick Albs ass unless we zerg, bcoz of uber grp setups ect... when catacombs comes along, these 2 new classes for mid and hib are going to attract some new players to thier ream. This afaik is the intent, to help balance out realm population, but thats just great isnt it.. not only do mid and hib allready have some stupidly overpowered classes as it is, now mythic are giving them 2 more classes and trying to lure more players to thier realm, which means more FOTM mids and hibs using thier new overpowered classes vs Albs in RvR again, and ofc, because of a few lesser numbers, our only hope Zerg is going to fail more.

I might be clutching at straws here, maybe im just unlucky when i go to emain and i know Mids and Hibs dont win everytime, but the vast majority of times i go we spend 30 mins buffing/grping at ATK only to get mezzed at AMG and wasted in 10 seconds by mids or hibs, even 2-3fg or albs ive seen wiped by 1fg of high RR hibs.

Catacombs imo is going to fuck up the balance of Daoc even more, i pray for the day mythic stops to think about the players paying for thier game month in month out and sorts the soddin balance out instead of chucking more expansions at us , more than likely riddled with bugs and new class exloits/1buttonforthewin tactics , instead of making more cash of us.

Anyway ive rattled on too long, and b4 u think this is just a rant at mid and hib overpoweredness its not. Ive been alb forever and yes Minstrels ARE way too overpowered, and some over alb classes come out very nicely too. But in the big picture you other two realms got it a lot easier when it comes to setups

anyway im off to mt colloroy with my mincer to stealth up on some sitting guy at lepricorns and use instant stun while he sits and insta DD him then mezz him and....

Stunsong 50 mincer RR2 L7
Alb/Excal

 

[Ormorof]

its meant to balance things out for NF, in NF numbers > all thus albion will have the upperhand

 

[Herjulf]

Well there are 2 reasons in my opinion that alb on excal is teh sux overall.

1. Very few doing serious grps, or not having good eq or ML´s. Also skill lack.
2. Many classes causing abilities to be spread over a wide variety of classes, whilst other realms, and mid in particular are a bit more allround.

This dont stop GOOD playing alb grps to do well in RvR.
Ffs the assisting lifetap feckers that can take a warr down in 3 blasts.
And air pets, well pets overall that keep healers busy, and pets being immune to crowdcontrol.

I think it is more towards 1. that is the case, also imo work a little harder in getting those power relics from hib. That is albs strong side imo.

edit:

Also giving mid + hib more classes to balance class count on above as base will make midgard and hib also have more classes and may balance things in ways you do not know.

 

[Balbor]

its meant to balance things out for NF, in NF numbers > all thus albion will have the upperhand

maybe if Hibs and Mids were ab it more welcoming they would have more people, no one wants to be welcomed to by a big smelly troll

 

[Ormorof]

maybe if Hibs and Mids were ab it more welcoming they would have more people, no one wants to be welcomed to by a big smelly troll

hey, im a sexy valkyn baby :wub:

 

[Pazdan]

Knighthood.

It is the same on Pryd. All those people saying that Albs have no skill hence they loose are the same people that whine when they are beaten and call it luck/cheating.

When NF comes out and population counts for more those same people will be crying to nerf Albions overpowered classes and the Albs will be shouting back... "QQ n00bs, get skillz".

Albion needs a decent secondry healing class that has a couple of other skills like insta cc, baseline buffs and pet. That would help out so much. They wouldn;t be as good at healing as a cleric, but they would be a damn sight more usefull at healing than a friar. Just one simple class would really help Albion out.

Oh and Mincers. It is the only real class Albion has that has utility in spades. Of course it needs nerfing. I almost took out a savage once with mine.... almost.

Anyway, bring on NF. Even the RA's out for everyone.

 

[[TB] Benedictine]

As already said - it is meant to even population for NF and is ages off yet so don't worry The new classes from SI were mostly deemed overpowered on release, but like any other class, they have/will see the nerf bat.

I doubt they will make that much difference - when a game is this mature- I can't see many people leaving a realm long term just to try a new class.

Secondary healing in Alb? Whats wrong with simply boosting the friar? Albs don't need another class - and if you check what so many people in Alb have been complaining about in the past - too many classes - you can see why.

 

[Belomar]

Well there are 2 reasons in my opinion that alb on excal is teh sux overall. [...] Also skill lack.

Yes, go on telling yourself this. Really. Seriously. It's so true. Hit the nail on that one. My man. Good thing you selected "Midgard" when you started the game, that, like, gave you mad skillz, unlike the, like, noobs who selected "Albion". Like.

Herjulf, you wouldn't happen to be related to Raven, would you? Same kind of crap issuing from your mouths.

 

[Vepo]

You never know the 1 new class Albion get in Catacombs could be a healing class.

 

[Dorin]

Yes, go on telling yourself this. Really. Seriously. It's so true. Hit the nail on that one. My man. Good thing you selected "Midgard" when you started the game, that, like, gave you mad skillz, unlike the, like, noobs who selected "Albion". Like.

Herjulf, you wouldn't happen to be related to Raven, would you? Same kind of crap issuing from your mouths.

same shit from the dudes yelling "irplayinghardmode morerespectformeplz!!!!!" or "uwincuzuareoverpoweredtard".

But ppl tend to forgive their own realmm8rs tardness ><, nothing new here rly.

 

[Oro]

I seem to be in the minority that don't think the situation is all that bad.

Yesterday with some careful positioning we had an incredibly mixed group ranging from lvl35+ and we gave an FG+ (including their stealther buddies) a good run for their money in DF. Not opted, not even balanced and only half the group actually lvl50.

Albs shouldn't even try to play the way Mids and Hibs play. Change the rules to suit what you have, not try to play in the style of something you don't have.

After horrible techie problems and getting my gimp cabby to 50 and finally getting some arti's (still not managed to get Nailah's lol bah <mutters and grumbles>) and MLs on him I'm starting to RvR and for the most part I've been having an absolute hoot.

Yeh, have had my ass handed to me on a plate quite a few times. Occasionally been the one passing out the crockery too.

Looking forward to lots more RvR now, even before NF.

 

[Alan]

Untill they address the distribution of utility Albion will always be 2nd best, on Prydwen albion have no relics and no keeps (as of last night)

Wasnt it something like 4 classes from hib, 5 mid, and 7 from alb that are needed to fill the requirements of a RvR group.

 

[Pazdan]

Albs shouldn't even try to play the way Mids and Hibs play. Change the rules to suit what you have, not try to play in the style of something you don't have.

After all the time DAoC has been about you would have thought Albs in both Excal and Pryd would have learned a tactic with which to win.

Secondary healing in Alb? Whats wrong with simply boosting the friar? Albs don't need another class - and if you check what so many people in Alb have been complaining about in the past - too many classes - you can see why.

Lots of problems with that. I mean, how do you do it for starters... give friars more spec points? Can't do that or else you will end up with friars 50staff and 50 enhance.... scary. Boost the base healing? you would have to do the same with Clerics. Only answer really is to give Albion on class in Cat's and the other realms two or three classes (with less utility). That class should be a healing class with more utility. It would help Alb get some more balanced groups out there. Look at the serious classes for Mid and Hibs and compare to Alb. Please discount friar. Any anyone playing a healing friar is either doing it for roleplay reasons or might as well play a cleric.

Other realms have problems too, and yes Alb has some benefits. Stealthing mezz class (though I am yet to be convinced that a mincer aoe mezz from stealth actually helps in RvR apart from giving the enemy mezz immunity). It has Theurgists with spamm pets. It's healing class has spec af buff.

That is what I think should happen to the extra class for Albion in Cats, and why.

 

[[TB] Benedictine]

If you add another healing class why would any group want a friar? resists?

By adding more classes to Alb instead of solving the existing ones, you will only add more classes to the RvR scrapheap.

The answer is a root and branch review of the distribution of utility amongst Alb classes, not playing around with more classes. A friar with 50 staff and 50 rejuv doesn't need to be the answer - there could be a max distribution of points say 39 staff 41 rejuv or whatever - anyway any friar who has tried to heal a group knows the'you are in combat and must wait 3 seconds before casting' problem they face. Hhhm stick or heal, pause, hhm stick or heal? Pause ... group dead.

 

[Oro]

After all the time DAoC has been about you would have thought Albs in both Excal and Pryd would have learned a tactic with which to win.

Many have. However, the problem is that most people want a guaranteed win all the time and they believe that the other 2 realms have this when its not really the case.

In the case of random groups, yes Mid and Hib have a much higher chance of getting the core classes they need hanging around a PK or BK for that random group to be reasonably viable. Its usually impatience that leads Albs to run out with no speed, no healing and 7 epic-wearing paladins in their group. (The high proportion of bots and powerlevelling necros doesn't help either but thats a different story). When Albs actually sit down and are patient you usually get the classes you need.

I usually plan my RvR in advance unless I'm going out to defend, in which case I more often than not get some nice fun. Even with some of the stupid line-ups I've been in for defending, I've still had some cracking fights. The only thing I absolutely refuse to be involved in is a keep take vs defenders which isn't done properly. Properly does not equal winning, but at least you have a fighting chance instead of getting farmed.

 

[Coren]

Lots of problems with that. I mean, how do you do it for starters... give friars more spec points? Can't do that or else you will end up with friars 50staff and 50 enhance.... scary. Boost the base healing? you would have to do the same with Clerics.

No you would boost the friar spec rejuv line, which is different and vastly inferior to the cleric spec rejuv line. Friars don't need more spec points, just a reason to put them in rejuv for RvR.

Adding more classes will only make the problem worse, and on top of that they will be ridiculously bugged/overpowered anyway because, well, it's Mythic.

 

[Thanatlos]

Just boost all secondary healer lines..

There's a reason there's no mending shamans, regrowth bards, mentalism mentalists or rejuv friars. (and only reason there's regrowth wardens is a. because wardens don't get much better damage specing in weapon anyway, b. mythic added a endurance reduction buff to a non fighting, non buffing line)

Single target healers (which is basically what secondary healers are) can only get skills the primary healers already have (or other less useful things (frigs) or totally out of place things (end reduction buff)) so there's very little incentive to make a secondary healer if you have the option of making a primary healer that has twice the heal utility.

So instead of adding something stupid like spreadheals to secondary healers, add something interesting like quicker single target heals for them.
Or another idea might be reverse cast heals. You press button, insta heals target with said value (value that it is nowadays) but you cast afterwards and that cast gets extended when you're interrupted. That way you're a lot of use to a group to save one team member from quick damage, can still be interrupted so you can be rendered useless, and you can switch from fighting to healing quickly.

Ah well, that's just my idea of secondary healers, not uber group healers, but good at keeping certain members alive. Now all that's done by the primary healers because secondary healers lack the incentive to get their average tools.

 

[Klonk]

Yes, go on telling yourself this. Really. Seriously. It's so true. Hit the nail on that one. My man. Good thing you selected "Midgard" when you started the game, that, like, gave you mad skillz, unlike the, like, noobs who selected "Albion". Like.

Herjulf, you wouldn't happen to be related to Raven, would you? Same kind of crap issuing from your mouths.

You're right, it's 100% caused by your unfortunate classes...

And why rant about Catacomb classes when you don't know what all those classes are going to be? It's like qq-ing because there is a chance Dubya Bush _could_ be re-elected president

 

[Pazdan]

Ok, so secondry healers get a boosted line.

Friars spec more in healing as a result and you have a decent secondry healer and the friar becomes more acceptable in group set ups.

However, wouldn't you rather still take a Cleric. A cleric can still buff better and heal better, The friar can hit things, and hard too, but a tank (light or heavy) will still be better for the group.

What is needed is a secondry skill that isn't eclipsed by the Cleric. What that is I don't know, but staff, though good, will never make it so a Friar will be accepted in a group unless that group needs -any- last memeber.

When Albs actually sit down and are patient you usually get the classes you need.

It is harder for them to put together balanced groups because of classes/utility so they go out with unbalanced groups. Alternative? wait for ages to get that group, swapping and changing with other groups so one or two groups of balanced classes can form and screwing the rest into waiting even longer to get a group. That is where the Hibs and Mids have a massive advantage. They can turn up and get a blanaced group easier and in less time.

More balanced groups, more wins.

The way it stands now is that it is harder and takes longer for Albs to get a balanced group together. Even when it does happen, Albs, being on the recieving end of multiple drubbings, still don't have a completely even chace of winning because of realm ranks.... see above.

Albs are no less skilled or more skilled than Hibs and Mids. Mids and Hibs are not all l33t kids and Albs are not all n00bs. The player skill is generally even and what most of us want is an level playing field. Be us Hibs, Mids or Albs.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind losing, just so long as it is not 95% of the time, which, at the moment, it is on Pryd, and it sounds like it is like that on Excal too.

I would like to see a secondry healer (better than friar but not as good as Cleric) with a CC line (maybe better than mincer but not as good as Sorc.. but with an insta cc) and maybe something like a damage line (with a small dd, damage shield and aoe dot)... just a pie in the sky idea so you don;t have to pull it apart. It would fill a lot of the gaps left in Albion, but yes, it would also continue to sideline some classes. With luck though, it would also bridge a gap between classes, allowing for a group to go out with the perfect set up and have a better chance of not losing.

Just a thought.

I would like to hear what classes the Hibs and Mids would like. For example another caster for Mids? or a stealther for Hibs?

Just so long as Mythic try and get a better balance I don't mind.

 

[Oro]

I don't think you're getting it.

If you can't squeeze the utility you think you need into 1 group. Don't run as 1 group. Run as 2

Play to your strengths and don't give a toss what anyone says about how you play your game.

 

[Pazdan]

Ah, zerg for the win. Now your talking my language.

Yes, I am one of those few people who don;t mind the zerg. Sometimes it is annoying when you are running solo and get run over by three groups who feel they have to insta cc (whether albs, hib or mid) before panel beating you, but that is what you get for running solo really.

If you can't be a group with your group, go get some mates and give them a beating instead. Works that way to. Infact on the few occasions it has happened to me, I have felt rather proud that the enemy had to go and get a lot of mates to kill me and mine.

On the other hand it is a shame that it is needed when just a little clever thinking should be able to swing it for you.

 

[Awarkle]

problem is at the moment is the OMG wtf 8vs8 group mentality. You have to go out with this UBAH specced twinked group you cant possibly go out rvr without the exact number of perfectly coordinated classes.

and thats when you end up with the other people going, well what about me ?

The problem is its true you have difficutly competing against gank squads specifically tailored and working together.

At the moment i feel that certain lines in hibbeh that is could do with some tweeking to improve them.


Bards should never tank its a simple fact, and likewise they shouldnt heal. Friars being the only secondary healer class for albion may have to grin and bear it and be that a secondary healers. you may not get instas but i thought friars secondary rising stat was dex ? or is that wrong.

its always the choice you take do you go out with strong healers or do you go out with strong casters/tanks.

catacombs will probbly give mid and hib a third stealther class probbly a utility stealther like the minstrel but probbly gimped albion will get a third support class. Possibly like the bard but not a cc class. I personaly think they should limit the amount of classes in groups and increase the group size to 10 instead of 8. WE got croc tear rings so why should we be consigned to a single group. OR battlegroup rps because when the zerg comes and im made complelty useless i will be leveling another char but dunno if ill get catacombs. AND can we have at least a small degree of selling on the part of goa in the United kingdom 0 shops sell dark age of camelot either classic, SI or toa. Thats probbly the reason why prydwen has never filled out properly.

 

[Z^^]

Well there are 2 reasons in my opinion that alb on excal is teh sux overall.

1. Very few doing serious grps, or not having good eq or ML´s. Also skill lack.
2. Many classes causing abilities to be spread over a wide variety of classes, whilst other realms, and mid in particular are a bit more allround.

This dont stop GOOD playing alb grps to do well in RvR.
Ffs the assisting lifetap feckers that can take a warr down in 3 blasts.
And air pets, well pets overall that keep healers busy, and pets being immune to crowdcontrol.

I think it is more towards 1. that is the case, also imo work a little harder in getting those power relics from hib. That is albs strong side imo.

edit:

Also giving mid + hib more classes to balance class count on above as base will make midgard and hib also have more classes and may balance things in ways you do not know.

funneh when noobs talk abt skill xDD

 

[[TB] Benedictine]

Ooooooo just had a brainwave which probably means its stupid but here goes....


To solve the secondary healer/Friar/Alb classes problem:

Make the friar heal for damage done. ie when friar A hits with his staff that instead of dealing damage is converted into a heal for the lowest hp group guy. If the guys are all full strength then the friar gains nothing from hitting - that prevents the problem that you have a 2 for 1 guy.

What do you think?

Just read what I wrote and it's crappy grammar As a demo...

Friar A hits Firby B for 250 staff damage
(all Albs are on full hps therfore no damage done and no one healed)
Friar A hits Firby for 220 staff damage
(cleric is getting beaten and receives a heal for 220)

Of course the frair retains the freedom to disengage and target individual heals as normal.

 

[Brite]

Albs are no less skilled or more skilled than Hibs and Mids. Mids and Hibs are not all l33t kids and Albs are not all n00bs. The player skill is generally even and what most of us want is an level playing field. Be us Hibs, Mids or Albs.

But when you gonna realise that this isnt true, generally the albs don't know the game as well, the people who whine about group set ups are generally the noobs who wont get invited into good groups beacuse they are in epic. Put some effort into your charecter and put some effort into making a nice group, so if you dont have the classes to make a good group ? stop playing necros then ffs?

Sit there and whine and pretend your playing hard mode or get off your ass and do somthing about it

 

[Belomar]

Oh joy, another clueless person enters the fray.

 

[Thrunge]

but i thought friars secondary rising stat was dex ? or is that wrong.

Thats wrong I'm afraid, and is one of the big friar problems, just about everything we do is dex based staff/cast/evade (with a bit of quick) and dexterity is not one of our three main stats, it is pie/con/str still and in that order

 

[Ormorof]

i think people look at it wrong when they call these classes secondary "healers"

all the "secondary" healers are good at something else, like warden has pbt, bard has mez, friar has melee, shaman has cave, healing isnt a huge priority, i get the feeling sometime that even if the healing line got boosted i probably wouldnt respec my shaman to have more points in mending because then i would loose out on all the other goodies

 

[Herbal]

noobs
playing hard mode Brite - Bonedancer

aye m8 youd know about skill allright xD

 

[Balbor]

But when you gonna realise that this isnt true, generally the albs don't know the game as well, the people who whine about group set ups are generally the noobs who wont get invited into good groups beacuse they are in epic. Put some effort into your charecter and put some effort into making a nice group, so if you dont have the classes to make a good group ? stop playing necros then ffs?

Sit there and whine and pretend your playing hard mode or get off your ass and do somthing about it

and come NF all the albs suddenly realise how to play and the mids and hids just forget. Why didn't the mids and hibs in the US just start playing better instead of moaning about something that didn't even change in NF, the population.