Casters useless in rvr?

[Amadon]

Re: mages rewl

Originally posted by inuyasha
Why does a bard need to unmess you every second second? Your immune for 2 min =)

u're immune for the duration of the mez, unless you use purge, in which case you get 1 minute immunity afaik (or 2 minutes as u say)

And of damage...if you cant do more then 0-300 damage before people get to you, the respec Last night i two hit killed a skald for 540damage each blast, and you dont get over to me in melee =) (1500 is looong melee range )

Again, try reading the post in context. You're light specced, so your DD does much more than my snare/DD. I was talking about the damage to people not within melee range with PBAoE and how quickly that damage falloff is. Perhaps I should get pedantic and qualify every statement I make so you don't misquote me?

I wanna team with a mana ench which is not suicidal, so i can try my blasts with 50% heat resist =)

so you want a debuffbot? (sorry.. couldn't resist)

 

[Lessurl]

I'm not useless in rvr, i do a good job of distractin 1-3 tanks as i sprint about with my skirt flappin screamin for my mommy

 

[Kobold]

Originally posted by Lessurl
I'm not useless in rvr, i do a good job of distractin 1-3 tanks as i sprint about with my skirt flappin screamin for my mommy

hahaha

Amadan, so you trying to say that pbaoe should be better and isn't good enough and should be better? If so I have to dissagree. Pbaoe is not supposed to do high damage if you're not very close to target.

 

[Amadon]

omfg
eternal, please read the whole thread

what i said amounts to the following if you cba to:
- pbaoe is about the only spell that deals fair damage given it's limitations (ie. it deals alot of damage but it's situational and very risky)
- with decent resists which are now available to more and more people, RANGED NUKES do NOT do enough damage to balance the low survivability that casters have.

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Anyway, there are still more than enough people with crap resists to make RvR fun for me. So as yet, I would have to change my previous opinion that casters are useless in RvR. I think it will get worse as more people get SC-d gear, but we'll still be useful against those who can't afford it.

 

[inuyasha]

Re: Re: mages rewl

Originally posted by Amadon

u're immune for the duration of the mez, unless you use purge, in which case you get 1 minute immunity afaik (or 2 minutes as u say)

Again, try reading the post in context. You're light specced, so your DD does much more than my snare/DD. I was talking about the damage to people not within melee range with PBAoE and how quickly that damage falloff is. Perhaps I should get pedantic and qualify every statement I make so you don't misquote me?

so you want a debuffbot? (sorry.. couldn't resist)

Funny, i though you was immune to mess, like stun, for one minute after it was casted on you no matter if it was purged, demezzed or simply broken by melee.

I know perfectly well im light specced =) What i was trying to say is that heey, since people know not to stand on a pbaoe, i realisictly do more damage on saaafe range then you do in suicide range =) Long live the light spec! Of course the falloff is heavy, or healers+ spiritmasters would rock this server ages ago =)

And yeah, i would love a debuffbot =)
In fact, i wouldnt complain about a normal buffbot either D

 

[inuyasha]

Originally posted by Amadon

pbaoe is about the only spell that deals fair damage given it's limitations (ie. it deals alot of damage but it's situational and very risky)
- with decent resists which are now available to more and more people, RANGED NUKES do NOT do enough damage to balance the low survivability that casters have.

First one:
Mentalist area dd gives heavy damage to many targets with falloff and is less dangerous to cast. Void aoe...just forget that really

My opinion is: SINCE people have heavy resists, you are MUCH less likely to kill someone with that pbaoe of your for the duration of a stun, and you will be uber dead when you try to kill a armsmaster or anything with it that can just stun you and X_X you in a matter of seconds

What you said about ranged nukes: best resists i have seen yet (aka 50 percent or close with buffs) i hitted for 297 (-300) or something around there. This means 150 damage pr second, and is enough to kill pretty much anyone in not too long. With heat resist debuff (and yes there IS alot of pbaoe enchanters around) you can pretty much kill any target very fast at safe range.
Might not know about you, but the ones who survive a stun-blast-blast-blast from me is rare, and unlike pbaoe spec, i dont die if they DO survive it =)

Range dd's for evah!

 

[Tyka]

One thing i think they really should removed is the interruption when someone miss you, gets bladeturned, you resist, someone fumbles on you, cast mez/stun even tho the timer has ended. That would balance out the mage classes a bit.

 

[inuyasha]

yeah and.

Originally posted by Tyka
One thing i think they really should removed is the interruption when someone miss you, gets bladeturned, you resist, someone fumbles on you, cast mez/stun even tho the timer has ended. That would balance out the mage classes a bit.

Dont forget your interupted for the duration it stands on the friggin weapon

You was shot by blah blah and the shot was absorbed. You begi...interupted, you begin....interupted, you was shot by some fool. Wait 3 secs, you begin cast...interuped

I HATE to loose my focus for like 5 sec when the friggin bow with capped dex + buffs easy shoot at 3,5

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by inuyasha


First one:
Mentalist area dd gives heavy damage to many targets with falloff and is less dangerous to cast. Void aoe...just forget that really

My opinion is: SINCE people have heavy resists, you are MUCH less likely to kill someone with that pbaoe of your for the duration of a stun, and you will be uber dead when you try to kill a armsmaster or anything with it that can just stun you and X_X you in a matter of seconds

What you said about ranged nukes: best resists i have seen yet (aka 50 percent or close with buffs) i hitted for 297 (-300) or something around there. This means 150 damage pr second, and is enough to kill pretty much anyone in not too long. With heat resist debuff (and yes there IS alot of pbaoe enchanters around) you can pretty much kill any target very fast at safe range.
Might not know about you, but the ones who survive a stun-blast-blast-blast from me is rare, and unlike pbaoe spec, i dont die if they DO survive it =)

Range dd's for evah!

Obviously our experiences of the duration of stun and the speed with which a tank can catch you differ.
I'll just accept that the only reason I can only kill a tank while working together with another caster (so we both attack the same target) is because I just suck at the game.
So tell you what, just ignore my opinion as being that of someone who obviously has no experience in RvR and no idea on how to play his class.
We'll all be happy then.
I'm pretty close to quitting this game anyway, so no great loss if I'm not.

 

[Kobold]

Originally posted by Amadon

Obviously our experiences of the duration of stun and the speed with which a tank can catch you differ.
I'll just accept that the only reason I can only kill a tank while working together with another caster (so we both attack the same target) is because I just suck at the game.
So tell you what, just ignore my opinion as being that of someone who obviously has no experience in RvR and no idea on how to play his class.
We'll all be happy then.
I'm pretty close to quitting this game anyway, so no great loss if I'm not.

Don't quit, just respec to light

 

[Tyka]

Re: yeah and.

Originally posted by inuyasha


Dont forget your interupted for the duration it stands on the friggin weapon

You was shot by blah blah and the shot was absorbed. You begi...interupted, you begin....interupted, you was shot by some fool. Wait 3 secs, you begin cast...interuped

I HATE to loose my focus for like 5 sec when the friggin bow with capped dex + buffs easy shoot at 3,5

???

I dont think that should be removed.

 

[old.Mick]

i dont have too many problems in rvr, just run around untill all the tanks give up trying to kill me then assist the battling tanks

oh and a hibby mage can still kill any avalonian by just looking at them
:merlin: :whip:

 

[old.Mick]

thats debatable tyka, but the qc interupt bug needs fixing now!

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Tyka
and lol at ppl talking about stun, my stun lasts 4 secs on a caster with 32% heat resists, imagine how long it last on a tank with det4, resist buffs etc.

Ah well this discussion is silly imo, ppl who havent tried both classes says caster are overpowered, if you only knew how easy we go down in battles compared to the little dmg we do.

hmmm 9seconds - 32% = 4seconds, nice maths there

caster stun is a WIN button for hib mages vs any non-tank and saying anything else is pure fiction frankly.

I have tried both classes and i agree totally >50% resists is insane. However, bare in mind even if i am hitting for <250 per nuke, i never fumble, get parried, get evaded, get blocked, hit pbt or miss and an outright resist is like seeing a flying pig riding a bicycle. Dmg overtime is still a win for a caster especially since u can achieve it at range.

Think Mythic overdid the Spec Resist Buffs tho, especially when u add on AoM and guaranteed capped resists via SC. I'd like to see the resist buffs changed from 8/16/24% to 5/10/15% or 6/12/18, that imo would balance things, atm yes a good tank in a good grp has the edge.

 

[Tyka]

LOL konah, that is a typical reply from an alb, nerf stun!

Try playing a hib mage and you will understand what i mean, i use stun like 10% in rvr nowadays, its pretty much worthless.

 

[old.giriam]

Originally posted by K0nah

caster stun is a WIN button for hib mages vs any non-tank and saying anything else is pure fiction frankly.

the never ending "hib stun is too good" rutine.. the stun doesnt last long enough to be effective anymore, if you want to i can send you some logs where its tested, and you can see how much "pure fiction it is". tanks hit for more damage than i do to them with my nuke, the resist lasts for a couple of seconds, at the very best it lasts for 2 seconds longer than its own base cast time. this has been repeated for ages now and if people just dont get it then it isnt much more to say.

the damage/stun numbers are _fact_. there is no point in arguing with that. you are ofcourse free to mean that the numbers are balanced and how they should be, but please dont dispute the actual numbers.

G

 

[sorusi]

blalbabalba

Yeah casters have been gimped since 1.50, so now make your zerkers and enjoy the moment (or hero/champ) =P

i wouldnt say caster stun isnt that great, determination 4 makes it ~3sec or something and its allmost like a free cant be stunned for 1 min card ;p slam is way worse tho

PS with some debuffing etc, casters can be quite ok, but you need to be able to debuff your dmg (waves at enchanters) ..

 

[inuyasha]

feh

Originally posted by sorusi
blalbabalba

Yeah casters have been gimped since 1.50, so now make your zerkers and enjoy the moment (or hero/champ) =P

i wouldnt say caster stun isnt that great, determination 4 makes it ~3sec or something and its allmost like a free cant be stunned for 1 min card ;p slam is way worse tho

PS with some debuffing etc, casters can be quite ok, but you need to be able to debuff your dmg (waves at enchanters) ..

You wouldn't say caster stun is great?
LOL!
Well, enjoy your determination boy, case you dont get any further with that against me then to get slowed by my pet. People with determination is NOT our targetes

Mages does heavy damage fast, just as the enemy mages, so what a mage does is to kill those...yes your mages..those with no pets, no determination and most importantly...no IP or purge
When we kill you tanks, you are the last ones alive, and that dont help you much does it? Tried to let a sorc keep its CC if it get stunned for 9 seconds? (yes 9 seconds, maby 7 if maxxed resists... worthless eh?

As a matter of fact, the ones who survive my stun is FEW, and i still two hit kill more or less any mage you have from safe range, also your stealthers and rangers and healers seem to have some problems with this little stun of mine, in case you failed to notice

I do NOT have a valid debuff off my own line (its like 15% or so, never bother to cast it unless the name is like wildfire or kagato) but still does heavy damage All the resists does is to make it go from "utterly insane" (666+crit dd) to "okey" (350 + crits)

 

[koskos]

if a tank has realy high det and heat resist that chain snaring pet will only reduce him to normal runspeed when he sprints (/em claps for perma sprint)

 

[inuyasha]

aha?

Originally posted by koskos
if a tank has realy high det and heat resist that chain snaring pet will only reduce him to normal runspeed when he sprints (/em claps for perma sprint)

The snare is the same snare no matter how much resist and determination you have mate, it only affects the duration of the snare, and since its two minutes normally, with heavy resists and determination MABY your back at 1 minute duration.

You do keep close to normal runspeed when you sprint, yep. Cant see why that help you, since the enchanter run slightly faster, you use endurance which means you wont be able to use any nice styles on the enchanter anyways, AND he can just sprint for a second and be ahead of you again

Only class this really affects is champions with their snare =) With end potions and long wind, they can kill me where no other not-instantmessing tanks can Then again, they are hibbies right

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Tyka
LOL konah, that is a typical reply from an alb, nerf stun!

Try playing a hib mage and you will understand what i mean, i use stun like 10% in rvr nowadays, its pretty much worthless.

I've got a chanter on pvp i know exactly how fkin uber the stun is, stop talking crap. yes on tanks with hi determination and good resist buffs its worthless, ON ANY OTHER CLASS as i stated, its a win button. jeez even the crappy low lvl 4sec stun is enuf to win a fight, its 1 free nuke with a 2nd on the way before u go into the "quickcastzone" try doing that with a friggin root.

What i suggest is u try is playing an alb caster then tell me the stun aint uber and aint used in rvr cos its total bollox and every non-hib knows it.

 

[Qte Eth]

stun _sux_
and i dont need stun against other classes to win ,tanks are main problem of mage ,and stun lasts <of its cast time this days
and since most albs i c this days have >50heat resist even against other class it will last 4 sec ,with 2.5 sec cast time and pretty cost ,and pvp aint usual rvr.
lol
give r00t

 

[K0nah]

an alb has 50% heat resist if, and only if, a friar is in the grp. u take this ~50% of 9 seconds (4.5) and round it down to 4seconds and then neglect to give the dex/mastery of art modified cast time probably 2s, not that the cast time matters at all, once the stun lands u get 2 free nukes with the target totally helpless.

yeh give hib casters root, do us all a favor.

 

[inuyasha]

qte

Originally posted by Qte Eth
stun _sux_
and i dont need stun against other classes to win ,tanks are main problem of mage ,and stun lasts <of its cast time this days
and since most albs i c this days have >50heat resist even against other class it will last 4 sec ,with 2.5 sec cast time and pretty cost ,and pvp aint usual rvr.
lol
give r00t

Stun cost:
nothing (if your light specced "blink blink")
It last:
6 or 7 sec (cap resist is 26, if its group against group, stun is mainly to stop people from killing you, not as a offencive act and 4-5 sec is long time to run or kill a mage who was going to kill you, agree?) (andi WANT to see how much mana you use by QC a stun mana mate)

Heat resist: i have mana dewds to debuff that for me anyways if its group against group, if its not, it last the regular 7 sec, which is more then enough for me to kill any non-tank class.

50% resist is not "usual", its just getting less rare then it once was. And stun is and have always been 2sec - dex modifier.

If you want to root, make a nature druid. Mages have stun, its powerfull and if you dont know how to use it, nature druid might be a idea. Btw, did you get that rr8 yet? if so, gratz

okthanxbye.

 

[K0nah]

Re: feh

Originally posted by inuyasha
As a matter of fact, the ones who survive my stun is FEW, and i still two hit kill more or less any mage you have from safe range, also your stealthers and rangers and healers seem to have some problems with this little stun of mine, in case you failed to notice

your not supposed to say that ffs!!1

all hibs know your supposed to say "STUN IS SHITE!" get back inline!

MYTHIC might be reading this and nerf ur WIN BUTTON MAN FGS!

EDIT AND SAY ITS USELESS AND CRAP AND U WOULD RATHER HAVE A r00t!

DO IT NOW!

 

[inuyasha]

yeah yeah

Originally posted by K0nah


your not supposed to say that ffs!!1

all hibs know your supposed to say "STUN IS SHITE!" get back inline!

MYTHIC might be reading this and nerf ur WIN BUTTON MAN FGS!

EDIT AND SAY ITS USELESS AND CRAP AND U WOULD RATHER HAVE A r00t!

DO IT NOW!

GIV instant 12 sec area stun in the light spec line!
THEN qte can come and tell me im underpowered. Still angry for that, he never tried to defend himself either
I want mess as well btw
And make my speed REAL speed 5, not a wannabe

Enchanter 4 clear horizon!

 

[Qte Eth]

point ur LIGHT ench, i do apreciate what u say -but please get rr5 at least to be sure in what u say 100k rps aint sounding like a reason to argue
any dog has 32 heat resist, not 26,and there are FEW of this sorta guys this days-stealthers and newbs mainly
if i wasnt sick of 220(-250) (so basically > 50 % heat resist) i wont say anything,i see this on albs -they have friars thats a fact ,friars had 50 resists always since they began to pop in emain with con based buff,and mids who have bucketloads of buffbot shamans and dont last 10mins in emain if dont go in 4fg zergs
about stun cost -it generally costs more then my nuke and takes time in which id prefer casting nuke and deal damage then wasting mana to stop someone for 2 secs
and i use stun not rare ,i use it VERY rare
very means once per 16 enemys or so
single qc root saves mage from main problem -tank for good 15 secs if hes bad resist&determination,stun gets u killed instead
if u k0nah think me and tyka hide truth about stun u are mistaken,
and why on earth should i make someone immune to stun for 1 minute stunning him for 2 secs when there are lw 9 sec stuns and slams that arent affected by det and DO rule
one reasonable thing in ur post is 5/10/15 resists ,might help ,tho well die already when mythic thinks about mages

 

[Danya]

The whole debuff / buff sitation is screwed atm. I hit a kobold caster for 180 (-189) the other day. There's no way I could kill him inside stun nuking for that little (esp given stun would be 4 secs ). On the other hand I hit a tank for 554 three times in under 6 seconds today... With debuff casters are uber, without they suck. There needs to be some balancing done there I feel. As for stun, I use it on casters mainly, it stops them qcing while I get some damage in. On anyone else it's not usually worth it.

 

[inuyasha]

finaly an answer.

Originally posted by Qte Eth
point ur LIGHT ench, i do apreciate what u say -but please get rr5 at least to be sure in what u say 100k rps aint sounding like a reason to argue
any dog has 32 heat resist, not 26,and there are FEW of this sorta guys this days-stealthers and newbs mainly
if i wasnt sick of 220(-250) (so basically > 50 % heat resist) i wont say anything,i see this on albs -they have friars thats a fact ,friars had 50 resists always since they began to pop in emain with con based buff,and mids who have bucketloads of buffbot shamans and dont last 10mins in emain if dont go in 4fg zergs
about stun cost -it generally costs more then my nuke and takes time in which id prefer casting nuke and deal damage then wasting mana to stop someone for 2 secs
and i use stun not rare ,i use it VERY rare
very means once per 16 enemys or so
single qc root saves mage from main problem -tank for good 15 secs if hes bad resist&determination,stun gets u killed instead
if u k0nah think me and tyka hide truth about stun u are mistaken,
and why on earth should i make someone immune to stun for 1 minute stunning him for 2 secs when there are lw 9 sec stuns and slams that arent affected by det and DO rule
one reasonable thing in ur post is 5/10/15 resists ,might help ,tho well die already when mythic thinks about mages

Yes, im a light ench, why?
Why you want me to rr5+? I know perfectly well what a chanter can and dont. I have had 9 enchanters, and Point has teamed enough to learn the basics, and soloed ALOT.

I know perfectly well alot of people have good resists, and as for this thread, it suppose people to have cap resists i assume. As for 220 (-250) this gives a effective damage on 110 damage pr second, which is okey. The regular i hit for on people with resists at all (not debuffed) is 320 (-200) 160 damage pr second is quite decent imho for someone standing on safe range .

Why does any dog have 32 heat resist? AoM 2? Assume so, but why are you counting with aom? As they grow in AoM, i grow in MoM. +3% damage -3% from AoM dont really make much difference does it? As far as i know, if you do not consider racial bonuses, 26 is cap?

I perfectly well understand that you dont use stun, it cost alot and is less stable and less efficent then mine. Half the light spec is to have a effictive stun
I only stun what i can kill while it IS stunned, so i rarely bother any tanks who has planned to back attack LW the friggin targets? Its just a NR.1 spell to be able to kill any mage or stealther before they have any chanse to retailate.

If i stun a mage, even so if its just for 4 seconds, i can get 3 blasts in before his first spell hits me, if that is a quickcast. If he then have normal resists, i have given him 900damage = dead mage If i had not stunned, it would on each forth chanse be something like: you hit, enemy quickcast, you are messed Of course you can group purge and such, but its far more efficent to just stun the sorc til hes dead wouldnt you say? And NO, not a shield nor a lw nor your pbaoe reach a sorc before he can mess you, agreed? Stun if a VERY nice spell to have.
Dont think i go around and stun armsmasters and such and watch them laugh at the two second stuns Light enchanters are supposed to kill mages, stealthers and archers if we are in teams, and stun is of the most imporant features we have.
I can stun 3 times for the cost of one blast mana wise, and it save me alot of trouble having to quickcast (which would cost me the same as two blasts or 6 stuns as you see)

Why in the ages do you want root? Root me...what does that help ya?

Btw...
i do not respect comments like:
You only have 100k rps and if you think me and tyka is hiding...
Not heard tyka say a word about it, but hes light so he should use stun when he can What is the friggin difference with rr3,3 and rr5 seriously?

Okey...you have been in alot of more groups then me...but why does that allow you to say a word about stuns? Or why does that give you right to say that light spec is gimped for chanters? If you claim i should not talk about rvr since im 1,7 rr too low for ya, then surly you should not speak of classes you have not tried at 50 once, and a spec you dont have? Show me your 100k light enchanter and i show you my rr5 one

 

[Tyka]

Konah why do you drag up albs in this discussion? i have played a hero and that's enough, i know how useful stun was before patches, and how worthless it is now. Read what Qte said, the problem is not other mages/stealthers, its tanks, not alb tanks, but all tanks (including heroes).

Point i'm sure you are very experienced and all, but soloing in the gorge and going to rvr in fully balanced groups is totally different, you will feel the pain out there. The best caster in game atm is mana chanter, runner up is light chanter, why? because you can debuff your own damage. No other class can do that, and when soloing you never encounter people who have more than 30% resists, wich imo is balanced. Some people have 60% resists in rvr, that is way too high.

You can't compare aom with mom, its 2 totally different things, got nothing to do with each other. Get mom5, aug acuity 5, best int buff, get your int above 300, meet someone in the battlefield with 100% resists and then you will know what im talking about, aom totally removes your mom, does not matter how high u have it, if someone have high resists mom is useless. Enchanter specific RA is overpowered, no one should be totally immune to spells. Because that cripples 60% of the players in game wich are mages.

Resists should be and i really hope will be looked at in the future. Don't quote me as i wont reply to your posts, this is my opinion.