Camelot Unchained
- Thread starter BloodOmen
- Start date
old.Tohtori
FH is my second home
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
- Messages
- 45,210
Heard "yeah, kind of, absolutely" and turned it off, no energy to listen to that kind of wishywashy stuff right now 
Coldbeard
Part of the furniture
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2004
- Messages
- 5,183
I only heard the randomness part, what is the big deal? Randomness isn't necessary bad, compare it to a system where numbers and actions always are calculable and predictable tends to be a boring if it ends up in just numbercrushing. DAoC always had a feel of randomness in it (size of crits, resists etc), but of course within reason.
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2003
- Messages
- 44,903
They aren't within reason though, that's the point. I don't mind a random calculator for crit amounts but he is talking about critical fails, so you cast your spell and just explode or Mr Roglord wanders up to you and one shots you through your carefully planned spec and equipment.
It goes against the idea of a hardcore game because any spacker can kill people through blind luck, or despite how much research you do into spec and equipment, gold you invest in gear you may well just slip over and kill yourself. BUT IT WILL BE WELL FUNNY ON THE FORUMS OLOLOL /Jacobs
It's retarded.
It goes against the idea of a hardcore game because any spacker can kill people through blind luck, or despite how much research you do into spec and equipment, gold you invest in gear you may well just slip over and kill yourself. BUT IT WILL BE WELL FUNNY ON THE FORUMS OLOLOL /Jacobs
It's retarded.
Muylaetrix
Can't get enough of FH
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2004
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- 2,021
ain't that just assumption from your part ?
i personally like hits for 500 - 1000, not 750 each single hit.
and i (don't state as a fact but) assume that the chance that a rog lord will one shot a min maxed char is not un-existing, but neglectible.
people read what they want to read, hear what they want to hear, not necessarily what is printed or said.
even in daoc, one shots existed <cough> 2 handed PA / spec bolt <cough> against soft targets.
the idea of critical failure, if not overdone, sounds fun to me. seeing 'smiting' go awry if you stand with your feet in the water seems like fun to me
all other factors being equal, luck is the determining factor irl too.
Achilles had his heel, Siegfried had his patch on his back.. you can be a (near) god, but bad luck will kill you.
so yes, i am happy with more 'random' chance than most of the current mmo's offer if it's not overdone and becomes the most important factor.
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No, he says as much in his interview.
Ctuchik
FH is my second home
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- Dec 23, 2003
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- 10,467
There weren't much random crits in WAR. At least none that mattered or hit hard enough until you had really really good gear. And that gear had so much crit stuff on it there was nothing random about it at all...
eksdee
FH is my second home
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
- Messages
- 4,469
Well, my finding was completely the opposite. It was one of the major reasons a lot of top players found the PvP unplayable. Still, I care not whether you agree or not. All I can say is, regardless of how it was in any other game - it's not something I want to see in CU.
eksdee
FH is my second home
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- 4,469
Dev Diary – Gaming the Kickstarter Reward Tiers
Designing the reward tiers for our upcoming Kickstarter campaign has been a very interesting process. I didn't think it would be quick and easy by any means, but it turned out to be considerably more involved than I'd expected. The time and effort I've put in have still been worthwhile since they have given me a good learning experience even though I'm not sure my eyes will ever recover from all the recent spreadsheet work.
In this regard, the first thing I had to do was figure out what my core goals for our Kickstarter's reward structure would be, and then determine how best to implement them. This isn't a simple task for a variety of reasons, since the MMORPG player audience is both large and diverse, composed of different people with a wide range of preferred play styles, individual preferences and very distinct wants/needs.
One goal I settled on right away was that I wanted our tiers to be generous as a way of thanking our backers for making a collective $2M bet on our studio. As anyone who has played my games over the years can attest, I have never been interested in treating customers as just walking wallets or ATMs. From my first MUD (Aradath) through to March On Oz™, I have resisted the sirens' call of ham-handed monetization and/or of charging players for services that really should be included with the purchase of a game, let alone ones that should come standard with a subscription-based game.
In the case of CU, I wanted to go even farther by having possibly the most generous program of any Kickstarter game. As part of my due diligence, I put spreadsheets together from the tiers of other projects and compared them to what I intended to offer to ensure that our pledge tiers should always be seen favorably. Now, I wasn't content to simply shave a few bucks off the pledges and just leave it at that. Instead, I decided to go to the next level by using a Founder's Points system that will let our backers flesh out the already-loaded tiers by choosing their personal favorites from a large selection of optional items that will only be available in our in-game store.
I also decided it was crucial to have some truly different pledge tiers with our Kickstarter, as well as certain tiers that meant something to me personally. Doing what everybody else is doing isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I wanted to differentiate us from some of the others as long as doing so would be a win-win situation for CSE and our backers. As part of my internal and external consultations and discussions, we have put some items into our tiers that are reasonably unusual, and even unique. For example, one of our packages comes with a miniature hand-painted by our team. Another tier allows the backer to do some voice-work for our game, and others come with a discount on subscription pricing. There are also many other interesting items; some of these came from suggestions from the community, others from my private discussions with people outside as well as from within our studio.
However, the physical goods tiers proved to be a bit more challenging than our digital ones simply because we'll need to have many of the items manufactured by other companies. Additionally, they have to be delivered to the players through either a third-party fulfillment house and/or the mail system. This means that instead of every $1 that is collected for a digital reward staying with the studio, a large percentage will leave.. Now, we can easily address the shipping cost, but unless we want to really have a high margin on the goods, if a large percentage of our backers choose our physical tiers instead of our digital ones, a much lower percentage of the total pledged would be available for the game's development. I am all for creating, collecting and selling swag but I would rather have more of the backers' money go into actual game development and not be spent on tee shirts, mouse pads, etc. While we do have some tiers with those items, they are all limited. However, our backers can expect that once the Kickstarter closes, we will then set up a way for them to buy such items if they wish and we will be happy to work with them on exactly which ones they want to see and allow them to be part of designing them.
This is, I expect, one of the reasons why most games are not focused on the physical goods tiers but rather the digital. However, as a long-time gamer who still remembers when I both hefted and shook game boxes to hear what was inside, I still wanted a limited number of pledge tiers that harkened back to those days. Plus, I'm also a fan of serious collector editions and not just higher priced boxes with a couple of supposedly "special" items, which brings me to my last point.
Feeling that these goals and a couple more had been addressed, I also wanted to create one more tier that was near and dear to my heart, that of a "bat-shit-crazy" collector's edition. Back in the Warhammer Online days, I pitched the idea of an insane CE that we would create with the help of Games Workshop. It would be a truly limited edition and very expensive, but it would set the bar so high for CEs that it would be remembered forever in the annals of BSC ideas. Unfortunately, due to certain issues (including too many people thinking the idea was indeed BSC), it never got green-lit, but it 's a different day and a different studio... so, we are going to create a truly BSC CE. We may only sell a few of them, but it has been fun to think about how to fill up that box and we'll probably add more items to it as our Kickstarter progresses.
Something else that might seem BSC to some is my decision to put our tiers out there for feedback before we actually launch our Kickstarter. The idea behind this is simple. You know what you like and want better than I do, so here is your chance to tell us what you think. Without further navel-gazing, here is a look our current (subject to change prior to the launch of the Kickstarter) physical goods pledge tiers. One of them, $1,250, is quite limited, and we will not open up additional clones of it (even at a higher price), as with a few higher-priced tiers. I ask for your feedback and if your reactions tell us we need to make changes, it is still not too late.
Pledge Tier $120 – Comes with access to private forums, official "Thank You" email/letter, Silver forum badge, 30 FPs, 1 DVD copy of the game for PC, 1 month free subscription, digital manual, special in-game title, an additional 5 FPs if you bought March on Oz, an additional 5 FPs if you are a subscriber to our newsletter, access to our Founder's Store, special founder's death marker, founder's app, ringtones and wallpapers, digital strategy guide, digital high resolution map, special thanks in the credits, founder's crafting icon, extra beta invites (# TBD), realm-locked founder's chat, cloth map, printed manual, and Beta 3 access.
Pledge Tier $250 – Comes with everything above plus special starter armor (cosmetic difference only), special starter weapon (cosmetic difference only), founder's wall plaque, unique trophies, unique dyes, digital copy of the art book, special in-game thanks, extra character slots (# TBD), discounted sub rate ($ TDB), Platinum forum badge, Beta 2 access, 40 total FPs, founder's statue for display outside of your house, a total of 6 months free subscription, CU mouse pad and printed art book.
Pledge Tier $450 – Comes with everything above plus a total of 50 FPs, an additional digital copy of the game (30 days subscription on the second copy), additional exclusive cosmetic housing items, 3D character model of your choice (1), CU poster signed by the development team, cloth map signed by Mark Jacobs, special backer credits, 12 month subscription and Beta 1 access.
Pledge Tier $750 – Comes with everything above plus 150 FPs, 18 month subscription for main account, two digital copies of the game with 3 months subscription each, Platinum forum badge, printed copy of our Rejected Art, 3D model from your favorite realm, statue in Founder's Row, one hand signed piece of concept art from the game and Alpha access.
Pledge Tier $1,250 - (BSC edition, non-repeatable) – Comes with everything above plus a total of 250 FPs, three-year subscription (renewable at $1 per year as per Kickstarter's ask when it comes to anytime "lifetime"), Mithril forum badge, one additional piece of unique hand- signed concept art (two total), and one hand-painted miniature from your favorite realm.
Besides all the goodies included in the physical tiers, here are some of the items that our backers will be able to spend their FPs on – reserving your character name, special proc, special founder only facial skins, armor and banner skins, unique guild widgets for your banner, and many more. Right now, we have about 40 items that will be available in the Founder's Store and I'm sure we'll add more over time with the help and support of our backers. When you combine all the physical rewards plus the high number of FPs that come with the physical pledge tiers, I think that I have demonstrated how much I want our backers who purchase them to be happy, just as gamers felt the same way many decades ago when the both the industry and I were young.
When reading this diary, please keep in mind that these tiers are not final. In some cases, I expect we'll add more things to them before launch as well as during the Kickstarter cycle. After all, we will have 30 more days to think of new and interesting stuff. won't we?
Lastly -- for now at least -- I want to thank everyone who has already participated in and who will now contribute to our collaborative reward-setting process. I believe this this is only one of the ways in which CSE and our community will work together to make CU the game we all believe it can be.
Designing the reward tiers for our upcoming Kickstarter campaign has been a very interesting process. I didn't think it would be quick and easy by any means, but it turned out to be considerably more involved than I'd expected. The time and effort I've put in have still been worthwhile since they have given me a good learning experience even though I'm not sure my eyes will ever recover from all the recent spreadsheet work.
In this regard, the first thing I had to do was figure out what my core goals for our Kickstarter's reward structure would be, and then determine how best to implement them. This isn't a simple task for a variety of reasons, since the MMORPG player audience is both large and diverse, composed of different people with a wide range of preferred play styles, individual preferences and very distinct wants/needs.
One goal I settled on right away was that I wanted our tiers to be generous as a way of thanking our backers for making a collective $2M bet on our studio. As anyone who has played my games over the years can attest, I have never been interested in treating customers as just walking wallets or ATMs. From my first MUD (Aradath) through to March On Oz™, I have resisted the sirens' call of ham-handed monetization and/or of charging players for services that really should be included with the purchase of a game, let alone ones that should come standard with a subscription-based game.
In the case of CU, I wanted to go even farther by having possibly the most generous program of any Kickstarter game. As part of my due diligence, I put spreadsheets together from the tiers of other projects and compared them to what I intended to offer to ensure that our pledge tiers should always be seen favorably. Now, I wasn't content to simply shave a few bucks off the pledges and just leave it at that. Instead, I decided to go to the next level by using a Founder's Points system that will let our backers flesh out the already-loaded tiers by choosing their personal favorites from a large selection of optional items that will only be available in our in-game store.
I also decided it was crucial to have some truly different pledge tiers with our Kickstarter, as well as certain tiers that meant something to me personally. Doing what everybody else is doing isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I wanted to differentiate us from some of the others as long as doing so would be a win-win situation for CSE and our backers. As part of my internal and external consultations and discussions, we have put some items into our tiers that are reasonably unusual, and even unique. For example, one of our packages comes with a miniature hand-painted by our team. Another tier allows the backer to do some voice-work for our game, and others come with a discount on subscription pricing. There are also many other interesting items; some of these came from suggestions from the community, others from my private discussions with people outside as well as from within our studio.
However, the physical goods tiers proved to be a bit more challenging than our digital ones simply because we'll need to have many of the items manufactured by other companies. Additionally, they have to be delivered to the players through either a third-party fulfillment house and/or the mail system. This means that instead of every $1 that is collected for a digital reward staying with the studio, a large percentage will leave.. Now, we can easily address the shipping cost, but unless we want to really have a high margin on the goods, if a large percentage of our backers choose our physical tiers instead of our digital ones, a much lower percentage of the total pledged would be available for the game's development. I am all for creating, collecting and selling swag but I would rather have more of the backers' money go into actual game development and not be spent on tee shirts, mouse pads, etc. While we do have some tiers with those items, they are all limited. However, our backers can expect that once the Kickstarter closes, we will then set up a way for them to buy such items if they wish and we will be happy to work with them on exactly which ones they want to see and allow them to be part of designing them.
This is, I expect, one of the reasons why most games are not focused on the physical goods tiers but rather the digital. However, as a long-time gamer who still remembers when I both hefted and shook game boxes to hear what was inside, I still wanted a limited number of pledge tiers that harkened back to those days. Plus, I'm also a fan of serious collector editions and not just higher priced boxes with a couple of supposedly "special" items, which brings me to my last point.
Feeling that these goals and a couple more had been addressed, I also wanted to create one more tier that was near and dear to my heart, that of a "bat-shit-crazy" collector's edition. Back in the Warhammer Online days, I pitched the idea of an insane CE that we would create with the help of Games Workshop. It would be a truly limited edition and very expensive, but it would set the bar so high for CEs that it would be remembered forever in the annals of BSC ideas. Unfortunately, due to certain issues (including too many people thinking the idea was indeed BSC), it never got green-lit, but it 's a different day and a different studio... so, we are going to create a truly BSC CE. We may only sell a few of them, but it has been fun to think about how to fill up that box and we'll probably add more items to it as our Kickstarter progresses.
Something else that might seem BSC to some is my decision to put our tiers out there for feedback before we actually launch our Kickstarter. The idea behind this is simple. You know what you like and want better than I do, so here is your chance to tell us what you think. Without further navel-gazing, here is a look our current (subject to change prior to the launch of the Kickstarter) physical goods pledge tiers. One of them, $1,250, is quite limited, and we will not open up additional clones of it (even at a higher price), as with a few higher-priced tiers. I ask for your feedback and if your reactions tell us we need to make changes, it is still not too late.
Pledge Tier $120 – Comes with access to private forums, official "Thank You" email/letter, Silver forum badge, 30 FPs, 1 DVD copy of the game for PC, 1 month free subscription, digital manual, special in-game title, an additional 5 FPs if you bought March on Oz, an additional 5 FPs if you are a subscriber to our newsletter, access to our Founder's Store, special founder's death marker, founder's app, ringtones and wallpapers, digital strategy guide, digital high resolution map, special thanks in the credits, founder's crafting icon, extra beta invites (# TBD), realm-locked founder's chat, cloth map, printed manual, and Beta 3 access.
Pledge Tier $250 – Comes with everything above plus special starter armor (cosmetic difference only), special starter weapon (cosmetic difference only), founder's wall plaque, unique trophies, unique dyes, digital copy of the art book, special in-game thanks, extra character slots (# TBD), discounted sub rate ($ TDB), Platinum forum badge, Beta 2 access, 40 total FPs, founder's statue for display outside of your house, a total of 6 months free subscription, CU mouse pad and printed art book.
Pledge Tier $450 – Comes with everything above plus a total of 50 FPs, an additional digital copy of the game (30 days subscription on the second copy), additional exclusive cosmetic housing items, 3D character model of your choice (1), CU poster signed by the development team, cloth map signed by Mark Jacobs, special backer credits, 12 month subscription and Beta 1 access.
Pledge Tier $750 – Comes with everything above plus 150 FPs, 18 month subscription for main account, two digital copies of the game with 3 months subscription each, Platinum forum badge, printed copy of our Rejected Art, 3D model from your favorite realm, statue in Founder's Row, one hand signed piece of concept art from the game and Alpha access.
Pledge Tier $1,250 - (BSC edition, non-repeatable) – Comes with everything above plus a total of 250 FPs, three-year subscription (renewable at $1 per year as per Kickstarter's ask when it comes to anytime "lifetime"), Mithril forum badge, one additional piece of unique hand- signed concept art (two total), and one hand-painted miniature from your favorite realm.
Besides all the goodies included in the physical tiers, here are some of the items that our backers will be able to spend their FPs on – reserving your character name, special proc, special founder only facial skins, armor and banner skins, unique guild widgets for your banner, and many more. Right now, we have about 40 items that will be available in the Founder's Store and I'm sure we'll add more over time with the help and support of our backers. When you combine all the physical rewards plus the high number of FPs that come with the physical pledge tiers, I think that I have demonstrated how much I want our backers who purchase them to be happy, just as gamers felt the same way many decades ago when the both the industry and I were young.
When reading this diary, please keep in mind that these tiers are not final. In some cases, I expect we'll add more things to them before launch as well as during the Kickstarter cycle. After all, we will have 30 more days to think of new and interesting stuff. won't we?
Lastly -- for now at least -- I want to thank everyone who has already participated in and who will now contribute to our collaborative reward-setting process. I believe this this is only one of the ways in which CSE and our community will work together to make CU the game we all believe it can be.
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2006
- Messages
- 19,944
I thought that, they should have $1 - Get a free cupcake with our logo on it.
then they truely get an idea how many players they can get, they're setting their first bar very high.
old.Tohtori
FH is my second home
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
- Messages
- 45,210
This guy doesn't take feedback, only praise.
Now let's look at this shizzle.
For the low price of 120, you get...as he says;
"However, as a long-time gamer who still remembers when I both hefted and shook game boxes to hear what was inside, I still wanted a limited number of pledge tiers that harkened back to those days. Plus, I'm also a fan of serious collector editions and not just higher priced boxes with a couple of supposedly "special" items, which brings me to my last point."
1 DVD copy of the game for PC, cloth map, printed manual.
Righto.
Well that's the lowest tier, let's see what else he gives!
CU mouse pad and printed art book.
Only 250 for a cloth map and an artbook. Seems good to me. Let's keep going.
450 pricetag, this should be good...CU poster signed by the development team, cloth map signed by Mark Jacobs,...so two signatures. Ok. Well, guess that's worth something to someone.
Now we get to the "kick ass collectors edition" parts of the pledges! Yei!
750...anticipation is killing me...2 copies of the game! Wohoo! What else, what else? "printed copy of our Rejected Art"...rejected? Err...ok. one hand signed piece of concept art yeah yeah...woot..some random guys name on a print...
Ok ok, let's not give up, there's one more tier that includes all this and it's only 1750!
3 dvd copies of the game
cloth map (+ one that is signed)
printed manual
mouse pad
art book
poster signed by team
rejected art copy
concept art piece (x2)
and?
one miniature...
Truly, the earlier statement rings true;
"I have resisted the sirens' call of ham-handed monetization and/or of charging players for services that really should be included with the purchase of a game, let alone ones that should come standard with a subscription-based game."
Let this sink in; digital, costs, f*ck, all.
As a comparison, the bioshock infinite 150 buck collectors edition; http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/bioshock-infinite-ultimate-songbird-edition/106154
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2003
- Messages
- 44,903
I wouldn't compare it to collectors editions, different barrel of fish.
It's still laughable though, it's gone from chuck a few quid at it to help them get started to buy the game up front before it's even started.
Off you fuck Mr Jacobs.
It's still laughable though, it's gone from chuck a few quid at it to help them get started to buy the game up front before it's even started.
Off you fuck Mr Jacobs.
old.Tohtori
FH is my second home
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
- Messages
- 45,210
Yeah i only compared it to a collectors edition since he himself talked about kickass collectors edition being a base
- English -
Resident Freddy
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Messages
- 5,263
I would have perhaps considered a £10 punt for old daoc sake- even if that only included beta, however if they don't introduce lower tiers then I think they are shooting themselves.
actually, i just read this http://citystateentertainment.com/camelotunchained/
and there seems to be some low budget options
actually, i just read this http://citystateentertainment.com/camelotunchained/
and there seems to be some low budget options
old.Tohtori
FH is my second home
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
- Messages
- 45,210
Will be adding that to my dota 2 phrases.
Muylaetrix
Can't get enough of FH
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2004
- Messages
- 2,021
Pledge Tier $25(Digital) – Comes with access to private forums, official “Thank You” email/letter, Bronze forum badge, 5 FPs, 1 digital copy of the game, 1 month free subscription, digital manual, special in-game title, an additional 5 FPs if you bought March on Oz, an additional 5 FPs if you are a subscriber to our newsletter, access to our Founder’s Store and Beta 5 Access to the game.
Pledge Tier $50(Digital) – Comes with everything above plus a special founder’s gravestone marker, founder’s app, ringtones and wallpapers, digital strategy guide, special thanks in the credits, founder’s crafting icon, extra beta invites (# TBD), realm-locked founder’s chat, Beta 4 access, 25 FPs and an additional 1 month of subscription.
Pledge Tier $110(Digital) – Comes with everything above plus special starter armor (cosmetic difference only), special starter weapon (cosmetic difference only), founder’s wall plaque, unique trophies, unique dyes, digital copy of the art book, special in-game thanks, extra character slots (# TBD), discounted sub rate ($ TDB), Gold forum badge, Beta 2 access, 40 total FPs and a total of 3 months of free subscription.
considering you get the game + some extra goodies for 25 $ , i think this is generous.
but yeah, not sure what these FP's are.
Pledge Tier $50(Digital) – Comes with everything above plus a special founder’s gravestone marker, founder’s app, ringtones and wallpapers, digital strategy guide, special thanks in the credits, founder’s crafting icon, extra beta invites (# TBD), realm-locked founder’s chat, Beta 4 access, 25 FPs and an additional 1 month of subscription.
Pledge Tier $110(Digital) – Comes with everything above plus special starter armor (cosmetic difference only), special starter weapon (cosmetic difference only), founder’s wall plaque, unique trophies, unique dyes, digital copy of the art book, special in-game thanks, extra character slots (# TBD), discounted sub rate ($ TDB), Gold forum badge, Beta 2 access, 40 total FPs and a total of 3 months of free subscription.
considering you get the game + some extra goodies for 25 $ , i think this is generous.
but yeah, not sure what these FP's are.
Dutch_NS
Can't get enough of FH
- Joined
- May 18, 2006
- Messages
- 608
FFS so it starts again... Mark Jacobs did not listen to the players yet again! What are this for crap rewards! I would pledge 250 if i could be in the alpha test from day 1 !! Help design the classes, givf feedback etc. WTF do i want some shit title and a cloth map for? TEH FUCK!
I had such high hopes for this game but seeing this makes me angry!
I had such high hopes for this game but seeing this makes me angry!
- English -
Resident Freddy
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Messages
- 5,263
Titles and shit were always inevitable, i would have liked to see some custom mob / named NCPs / weapon names / alpha testing (as Cyclodia mentioned) included. I would personally never be able to pay as much to get these, but i am sure some peopel can.
And the FPs or player coin someone mentioned, is it going to be a f2p model?
And the FPs or player coin someone mentioned, is it going to be a f2p model?
