BWRTCWL - You decide the future.

[nocte]

from a wolfTV server (which we had also for free during the cup)

not for free. it was kindly lended to us by GROS-Vortex to temp BW into providing us with a wtv server, which they are going to do with the pay league.

if people want a free league then by all means give it, but dont expect servers / setup's to be available all the time on time, as i think bigfoot said, priority will go to the league that are encororated into the p2p system. also said again by bigfoot, sunday and monday are prime times for running a league.

so what if the servers were allocated else where one night, the forums would undoubtably be filled with complaints, but u have no grounds to make your complaint as it was covered here.

Paid league: quality servers, and support
free league: possible delays for server upgrades, servers not available due to reloaction.


i know where my vote has gone.

 

[xpsavage]

A few points

I would be completely up for a paying for the league but i cant see the costs justifyed for everyone.

Firstly, u say it helps pay for things like wolf tv, what about the lower, and with no disrespect, the less skilled clans, they wont get wolf tv as the bigger games will get priority, and when this gets answered saying the lower clans will get wolf tv aswell, who will watch them.


The point about playin in the bw public servers when u have subscription, firstly they are not really classed as public servers no more cause you do have to pay for them, secondly, there are already allot of good public servers out there so why will people want to pay for them.


And finally about the costs, say theortically speaking, that all the clans sign up, not sure how many that is gonna be this season, in the rules it says 72 but that might have changed for this season not sure. Buts lets just say 34 for example, 34 clans sign up, 6 players per clans(but i think it wont always be just 6 per clan cause if someone is paying they wont want to share all the time, so i think about 8 is resonable. 34 clans, 8 players all paying £14 which totals £3808. which is just minimum, more players per clan might sign, might be more teams
To me that is allot of money which bw is pulling in just from the league and i cant see how the costs of a league could run so high.


Well theres my points, i would like to vote option 2 but i cant no way see it happening so my vote is option 1

 

[old.[TPK]ophiuchus]

Originally posted by .nocte



Paid league: quality servers, and support
free league: possible delays for server upgrades, servers not available due to reloaction.

as a lot ot peeps have no faith in BW atm this is not a good sign of what BW can do or proved! prove that BW can run a league, which goes on far longer that a cup! and people will pay for it. nearly double the amount of clans will be playing in the league comparied to the cup and have not seen the new improved BW!

PROVE IT

 

[{=SF=}Trooper]

What happens to the people who have already took out a year subscription and if the league was to go ahead with a pay to play system would their subscription add to running of the league.

For example i took out a year subscription beginning of August if season 3 say in January became a pay to play service would my subs still enable me to play in the league or would i have to pay again to play.

 

[bigbb]

Re: A few points

Originally posted by xpsavage
Firstly, u say it helps pay for things like wolf tv, what about the lower, and with no disrespect, the less skilled clans, they wont get wolf tv as the bigger games will get priority, and when this gets answered saying the lower clans will get wolf tv aswell, who will watch them.

We may be able to get more than one WolfTV server, the possibilities are more extensive and would go across the divisional range. But, to a finer point the prize pool would deliberately address the spectrum of clans participation and not be soley reserved for the elite. They'll also take advantage of the better resources, a continuation of convenient league nights and stability in the future of the league.

Originally posted by old.[TPK]ophiuchus


as a lot ot peeps have no faith in BW atm this is not a good sign of what BW can do or proved! prove that BW can run a league, which goes on far longer that a cup! and people will pay for it. nearly double the amount of clans will be playing in the league comparied to the cup and have not seen the new improved BW!

PROVE IT

Completely incorrect. The league is going to be 32 teams (48 at a Maximum), one of the core issues in S1 was the size of the league. The league cup ran for around 5 gaming weeks on both days and compared well to the runnings of the next season. The league has proved itself over the Seasoned Cup, which your clan didn't participate in. We've said repeatedly why it's improved and how it will continue to do so.

Originally posted by {=SF=}Trooper
What happens to the people who have already took out a year subscription and if the league was to go ahead with a pay to play system would their subscription add to running of the league.

For example i took out a year subscription beginning of August if season 3 say in January became a pay to play service would my subs still enable me to play in the league or would i have to pay again to play.

At the moment your subscription will certainly gain you access to all the leagues for all the time you're subscribed. You get all the goodies and will continue to do so. Whilst leagues are free, the subscriptions from Joe Public are effectively subsidising the basic leagues.

 

[BodySnatcher]

My 2 cents

shoxx said what i'd say.

Most players in my clan wouldn't/won't pay.
RtCW's players commitment is slowly diminishing and asking for a fee to get in the league (even with prizes) would just kill it.

On the prize thingie, well... you probably all attended lan games. At every lan I attended, I was able to tell, before the power was plugged, what team would take away all the stuff... So I bet as a greedy bastard that I'd only pay if I had a chance to win

So my vote is 1

 

[bigbb]

Re: My 2 cents

Originally posted by BodySnatcher
shoxx said what i'd say.

Most players in my clan wouldn't/won't pay.
RtCW's players commitment is slowly diminishing and asking for a fee to get in the league (even with prizes) would just kill it.

On the prize thingie, well... you probably all attended lan games. At every lan I attended, I was able to tell, before the power was plugged, what team would take away all the stuff... So I bet as a greedy bastard that I'd only pay if I had a chance to win

So my vote is 1

*Test submit button*

Are my posts being totally misread? Each and everytime prizes have been mentioned it's been explicit that prizes would be applicable across the divisional/clan barriers. In other words, we'd have prizes not just for divisional winners, but for a variety of achievements throughout the league and I'd think some fun type prizes.

Your point on RtCW player committment is a valid and good one. Indeed, it seems to be the biggest obstacle for any subs league to overcome. But, the subscription is not just for league, it's for the entire BW service package. So all other leagues/games, including bookable servers and web hosting are included on that. The very idea of a league going into subs does set an ultimatum of committment to the game. But, as I say all future leagues and services are going to be included on the subscription. BW is a growing subs community and it's quite impossible to believe that won't be valuable in the future.

 

[gamb]

Free or Subs

While the idea of a Subs league is nice it just wont work. Already people are losing interest in Rtcw with all the new games that have come out, and charging to play in a league will only make more people lose interest. Look at the number of clans that have dropped out of the RTCW community already. Just my opinion but i think i have a valid point.

 

[[DiGa] Doc Roe]

question is now how many more free subscribtions can u give out for votes

those numbers are looking sick for the subs league when is the vote going end?

 

[haig]

I think the issue here is people not willing to pay for internet services.

As you are reading this you are probably sitting in front of a £1000+ computer while paying £25+ per month for your connection. Come on guys - money is not the issue here is it.

Personally, I would like to see BWRTCWL subscriber only with all the benifits that would come from this. However, I just don't think that people will pay, especially when they can get an alternative service for free. Just look at the state of the BW 'public' servers - pay to play doesn't work.

Its a difficult decision but I'm going to vote for a non-subscription BWRTCWL.

 

[Daemord]

just a little something on the issue of prizes

Prizes are all well and good but have problems for instance you give away for arguments sake a mouse which person in the clan gets it leader, 1 random individual, or mass internal clan argument ie that game was won by me etc etc

So idealy if any prizes are given away it has to be either money or something that can be shared, now you cant give away BW subscriptions as ppl will already be paying for them so what on earth can you give away exactly????

 

[bigbb]

Originally posted by gamb
While the idea of a Subs league is nice it just wont work. Already people are losing interest in Rtcw with all the new games that have come out, and charging to play in a league will only make more people lose interest. Look at the number of clans that have dropped out of the RTCW community already. Just my opinion but i think i have a valid point.

It is valid, because it's your opinion. But, you're not subscribing to a league, you're subscribing to BW and that includes ALL games, servers, web hosting (etc.) and ALL leagues ever covered in the service package. So, as said the subscriber can move onto other new leagues, which will almost certainly be subscriber-only for the new games.

Originally posted by haig
I think the issue here is people not willing to pay for internet services.

As you are reading this you are probably sitting in front of a £1000+ computer while paying £25+ per month for your connection. Come on guys - money is not the issue here is it.

Personally, I would like to see BWRTCWL subscriber only with all the benifits that would come from this. However, I just don't think that people will pay, especially when they can get an alternative service for free. Just look at the state of the BW 'public' servers - pay to play doesn't work.

Its a difficult decision but I'm going to vote for a non-subscription BWRTCWL.

I'm a little worried that you seem to have voted no because you believe no one will vote yes, and it will hence fail. The state of the public servers, is a self-fullfing prophecy, really. That's the whole reason why future leagues are being bought under the subbed umbrella. The 'state' of public servers is changing though anyway, just look at BF1942, it's got a critical mass, as bif says which is keeping the servers filled. Older games, that's not happening. But, BW subscribers are growing and we've hints to say that it's going very well, so this issue certainly won't last out.

Originally posted by Daemord
just a little something on the issue of prizes

Prizes are all well and good but have problems for instance you give away for arguments sake a mouse which person in the clan gets it leader, 1 random individual, or mass internal clan argument ie that game was won by me etc etc

So idealy if any prizes are given away it has to be either money or something that can be shared, now you cant give away BW subscriptions as ppl will already be paying for them so what on earth can you give away exactly????

As already mentioned, prizes haven't been specifically designated in a hypothetical league move. But, that wouldn't be the case, with just one user getting the prize. Maybe for individual achievements and awards but not for clan specific prizes. I should imagine they'd be in the form of GAME (Or other EU GAME companies) vouchers for all members, or alike. Though don't quote me on that, it's a guess.

 

[xpsavage]

just to clear up

U keep saying that people are not just paying for the league but the rest of the bw services, well tbh i dont know about other people but im not interested in the other bw services, already have web hosting, bw publics are empty also there are better publics anyway. So i think that might be a reason for other people picking option 1, they just want the league not all the rest of this stuff.

Also the prizes, i cannot really see how you are gonna award prizes to the lower teams, even if you say for individual performances. I never played last season but does that mean that there are gonna be admins in every game?
Personally i dont wanna play in the league for prizes, thats just a + but it will be the top teams takin the awards no matter which way you say it.
I can understand why you are fighting for the second option, but you have to be honest, if you were on the other side of the fence, your desision might be different

Also another quick point, u say 32 clans maybe 48 clans, looking at the list there are a hell of allot of clans that have signed up, and i could proberly name 48 clans better than the one i play in, that have been around longer. So this really means that no entry to league for us, if it is god what am i doing here fighting for option 1

 

[haig]

Pay to Play? You should be paying US to play.

Some of you may heard of the Intel Masters Tournament being held in London on the 21st December.

Forget £12 or £24 to enter, these guys are offering £25,000 prize money!

This is the future of gaming. Not paying to play.

Why can't BW run tournaments like this?

 

[Z(^pSyCo)]

Originally posted by haig
Pay to Play? You should be paying US to play.

Some of you may heard of the Intel Masters Tournament being held in London on the 21st December.

Forget £12 or £24 to enter, these guys are offering £25,000 prize money!

This is the future of gaming. Not paying to play.

Why can't BW run tournaments like this?

Surely you cannot compare the INTEL masters tournament to the BW League. Note the key differences - INTEL & Barrysworld. One is a major worldwide company with u turnover in the billions of dollars, and the other is anm online gmaing service lead by a computer games dealer. Intel are running this tournament as all other organisers of these tournaments do for publicity. You may note that all computers being used in this tournament are P4 3Ghz (which just so happens is being released by Intel for a christmas launch (coincidence ?). Intel is doing this to gain extra publicity in the growing market where it stuggles to compete with its major competor (AMD) as most gamers prefer the AMD chip (altho I may be wrong on this, so dont quote me on this - it is my opinion that they do).

So therefore Barrysworld is not seeking any publicity from opening a tournament with huge prizes with no income from the competetors, so if you wish for these prizes to be available vote for the Subs league.

Oh, and btw can i change my option, i clicked on the "free league option, and i wanna change my mind )

I origionally voted thinking of the younger members of some clans and not being able to pay, but upon reading all the comments listed above, I personally think that if the league does go ahead free, the league will not be up to everyones expectations (unavailable, unpatched/upgraded servers etc - which could leave to alot of annoyed competetors, and possibly some clans exiting the league).

I aplogise for the long post, but that is my $0.05

(and i know some ppl know i get free subs as an admin, but i paid for my subs before i was offered the free subs, so i pay for mine like every1 else )

 

[haig]

My post was deliberately meant to be provocative .

I want to challenge BW's position in the marketplace because I don't think Pay to Play has a FUTURE.

However, the fact that tournaments such as the Intel Masters can exist does make you think...

 

[old.[TPK]ophiuchus]

Originally posted by Mr.Psyco



Oh, and btw can i change my option, i clicked on the "free league option, and i wanna change my mind )

I origionally voted thinking of the younger members of some clans and not being able to pay, but upon reading all the comments listed above, I personally think that if the league does go ahead free, the league will not be up to everyones expectations (unavailable, unpatched/upgraded servers etc - which could leave to alot of annoyed competetors, and possibly some clans exiting the league).

soooooo, nothing like season 1 then!

BW keeping the great rep it's always had, fantastic!

 

[Daemord]

@ ophiuchus as many have said season 1 was a long time ago
And having participated in the cup i can say it was fantastic things were done to time and it was run brilliantly so it has been proved that if they want to they CAN do it so i do wish people would stop bringing up season 1 it is irrelivant

And i would like to add despite all my posts i am not against a pay 2 play league i am just conserned on the cost to clan members, trying to convince people to part with hard earned cash is hard and it would be a shame to see this league plumet simply because some clans can get 5 members to agree but not a 6th (even with shuffling logins etc etc) i belive that such a 6th member needs a convincing reason 2 sign up and currently i havent seen a reason truley convincing to convince the 6th stubborn person (or more) to pay up

Would also add that i do pay for a BW subs but it isnt for the servers or anything else its only for the webspace because you get a foolish amount of bandwith with it which no1 else seems to offer

 

[eLL Tee]

Intel masters, lol

afaik clans need to PAY to get there, they need to PAY for a hotel if they want to stay over, they may even need to PAY for food if they want to eat.

and afaik, only 4 clans out of 8 have a chance to win.

Intel are using it to lauch something afaik.

You want prizes, you pay to enter in one way or another.


you want to play in the top UK league, and WIN prizes you pay 4p a day simple as that.


If i go to intel master, it will cost me 10/15 times more than bw subs.

and say my clan comes 4th, i might get less money back as prize money, than i paid to go.

If you want the best you pay for it, its that simple.


btw im ranking, cos of the intel remark, and the pr0 gameing attitude.

Keep it real BW like your doing.

 

[BodySnatcher]

Pay to Play...
Sorry, but the answer is just NO.

I already paid for computer, isp, game. I won't pay for a game server/service provider.

Someone will do it for free, for fun sake, or because he's a clever d00d who's found a means to interest in some sponsor.
If not, there will be no public server, no tournament, and this game (whatever, I'm not specifically talking about rtcw) will die. And it's a good thing, it will help gamers to sort what games are popular, and what games are crap.

That's probably a bit tough, but since BW ran under subscription, it didn't help :

1/ most of my buddies aren't subscribers, and I prefer to stick with my buddies than sticking to a given server. So I'm most of the time playing elsewhere.

2/ Server bookings. Well... Here comes the unpleasant stuff... I did several bookings, and things NEVER went smoothly. rcon problems and odd server behaviours lead to an uncomfortable feeling that this is not, "book and play", but "book and pray" (sorry a bit hard maybe, but mind it's a COMMERCIAL SERVICE, it should work without hassle).

Maybe I would pay for something kickass, something extra. Paying for a community service (even if I fancy this community above others) while other similar services go for free is just a no go for me.

... And since i'd like to promote the "community service" idea, maybe I could host the WolfTV server.
Who could provide the specs for doing so? [what server hardware needed cpu/ram wise, what bandwidth used...]

 

[gamb]

Free or Subs

Ok here is another factor to consider, Look at the demographics for player age for RTCW or other online games. A huge amount of the peeps playing are 16-22. Now how many of them have jobs to be able to afford to pay for membership. Alot of people that play are not your average working man or woman. myself i have a good job and can afford it , but alot of peeps cant. The age bracket i mentioned, sure some of them will have jobs but do you believe they will spend there money to buy a membership, I dont think so. If they do have money they will most likely spend it on new games or PC upgrades. I'm not saying its not a good idea i just dont think it is feasible. Take a look at the # of peeps that use BW and then look at how many are paid members, that will give you a good indication.

 

[eLL Tee]

bodysnacher, yer you pay for your pc, isp etc

who pay for the servers you play on, someone has to.

I take it your one of the new breed on gamers, who dont pay for shit, where im an older gamer (over 5 years) and used to paying pay-per-min and a fee to play on wireplay.

the free ride is all but over, and bw fee's are nothing compared to what it could be.


I hape sponsership comes back to online gaming and it can be free again, but i would rather pay BW than have to play on a server, in someones house, or join a clan and have to chip in £50 a year.

any way this aint a flame.



what BW could do is do both.

a pay comp on a sunday like it has always been, on top spec pc's with the full back up bw do.

and

a free comp, on whatever night is free for the cheapo old servers, and where you need to find someone to run the league for FREE (no free subs for them)

and let ppl make up there own mind.

just an idea

 

[bigbb]

A fair idea, though will require some looking at. Only point that could cause problems is the extra administration required, because again priority would have to go to the Subbed section.

 

[Sad1st]

Lol yer bring back the good ole WP days - 2.5p a min off peak = bankrupt...those were the days

 

[McBastard]

Boy, is this hard. On one hand, I'd like to see online gaming for lowly peons like myself mature. On the other hand, I'd like to participate in S2 (and p2p might prevent that).

SC (with big cheers for all admins and v0rt3x for their efforts) ran as a well oiled machinery. Ok, so there were some hiccups, but it really was all beer and skittles. Even if S1 is putting some doubt in my head, I'd wager that S2 will be run equally well.

In a way the primary goal of this p2p thing isn't to satisfy my exact wants. Or at least it seems like a dual goal (get subs & make quality league). The subs offer is nice, but I've already secured myself webspace, bookable servers, leagues & ladders. It *will* feel a bit like paying for something I don't need - but such is the package I understand. There's also the odd mention of the league being max 32/48. Say a clan subs - is there no guarantee of admittance into the league of choice?

So, in short: No reason for BW to do like everybody else. If/when BW leagues go p2p I'd certainly try to collect the coins needed. If it's not possible, I'll have to go to the possibly inferior leagues.

 

[Mr`XearoX]

i think it should just carrie on the way it was last year, with wolftv etc... it was good

 

[syk.chak]

Originally posted by Mr`XearoX
i think it should just carrie on the way it was last year, with wolftv etc... it was good

It can't. WolfTV wasn't provided by BW, it was donated by a player who no longer uses the server for wtv.

 

[wildthang]

If the proposed subscription money isn't going to fund the admins who look after the league then I propose to just keep it free and simple.

I'm not bothered about WolfTV, or infact getting higher quality servers. Indeed, apart from a few technical glitches which were not due to the quality of the servers but rather random breakdowns, Both Season 1 and the Cup were amply catered for on the servers that were provided.

 

[bigbb]

I'd see our key losses are the fixtures. We're very unlikely to stay on Sunday/Monday. We could be moved to Friday and/or Saturday, in the worst scenario. If not this season [to that extent], certainly next with all the new leagues coming into play. The BF1942 league is eagerly anticipated by Subscribers, as are future UT2K3 leagues.

 

[[DiGa] Doc Roe]

*cough*

When is this vote going to finish

*cough*

Im getting abit worried about some of the comments made about the quality of service if it is a free league.

I forsee some nasty posts in the future slagging off the league then the admins saying 'well you wanted a free league'

You are all saying season 1 is ancient history and you ran the cup well, yes this was good and provided without going subs only /me claps and all that, on the otherhand u are giving yourselves a excuse if the next season is sloppy by making the non subs comments

so is season 1 ancient history or not?

I have said I am willing to give a 1 off payment and as a subscriber I will pay for the extra 5 if it means a brilliantly ran league unfortunately ur comments are not giving me confidence. can u please make ur minds up on whether or not u can run a decent league with or without subscriptions.