BWRTCWL - You decide the future.

[d_g]

Evil have 4/5 subscribers anyway, and a subs-only league would probably increase our chances of getting in, result in less problems, and have more features like wolftv, prizes etc... But I'd still rather it be a free league as what makes BWRTCWL particularily good in my eyes is, well, look at the clan list. All sorts of clans from Europe (and a few from even further) want to get into the league, how many of them will still apply when they effectively have to pay 6x£24?

The clan member lists appear to be largely compiled by using BW membership names. Is it possible to datamine and work out how many subscribers are applying to play in bwrtcwl, and consider this when allocating server time? When I subscribed I had no idea I might also be paying for my entry to BWRTCWL, so I have no problems with any idea of "subsidising" non-paying league players. Actually when I subbed I presumed it would be partly subsidising the league anyway.

 

[bigbb]

Emails were sent to all 96 clans signed up to the new season, asking for a defiante answer. Once most of those are back Chippy and BL will say what they've decided. The forum vote wasn't really conclusive and thus a firmer and wider decision from clans was required. Although the percentages are in favour of Option 1 here, the amount of Option 2 votes are sufficient to run a league. So it did need to be clarified in order to present the best case for both sides.

Especially as quite a few clans weren't aware of the forum discussion and hadn't had a chance to put forward their vote.

 

[suneiv]

Hmm.

The only thing i find unfair about a subs leauge is the fact that i have to pay more for the sub then the uk residents. This will also make it more a UK only leauge imo.

And yes i will vote via mail when my clan has finished the argument

 

[nocte]

Originally posted by [DiGa] Doc Roe
*cough*

When is this vote going to finish

*cough*

Im getting abit worried about some of the comments made about the quality of service if it is a free league.

I forsee some nasty posts in the future slagging off the league then the admins saying 'well you wanted a free league'

You are all saying season 1 is ancient history and you ran the cup well, yes this was good and provided without going subs only /me claps and all that, on the otherhand u are giving yourselves a excuse if the next season is sloppy by making the non subs comments

so is season 1 ancient history or not?

I have said I am willing to give a 1 off payment and as a subscriber I will pay for the extra 5 if it means a brilliantly ran league unfortunately ur comments are not giving me confidence. can u please make ur minds up on whether or not u can run a decent league with or without subscriptions.

season 1 is ancient history. Whole different admin team and all that.

BUT if the league goes for free we will have no control on which servers we get, and which nights we can run the league.

This will undoubtably cause several people to complain about how the league is run. (as they do neway). Lag issues time issues u name it people will complain about it.

 

[shoxx]

Originally posted by bigbb
Emails were sent to all 96 clans signed up to the new season, asking for a defiante answer. Once most of those are back Chippy and BL will say what they've decided. The forum vote wasn't really conclusive and thus a firmer and wider decision from clans was required. Although the percentages are in favour of Option 1 here, the amount of Option 2 votes are sufficient to run a league. So it did need to be clarified in order to present the best case for both sides.

Especially as quite a few clans weren't aware of the forum discussion and hadn't had a chance to put forward their vote.

U say the option 2 votes made it viable to run a pay to play league, how can u justify saying that a vote that was beaten with a majority of over 2:1 has a right to be run as a viable option when its likely that the people who voted for it already have subscriptions?

Imho its like saying the tories should b given a chance at runnning the country because although they lost, they still got alot of votes at the last election.

Take a step back and look at what the majority want, after all that is who we are catering for.

1 other point is the league likely to start before the new year, because with no league out there and cb being crap (imho) rtcw is suffering more. Lets try and sort this out asap guys, I understand u are waiting for the replys to emails sent out to the clans, however if they havent replied by now are they likely to do so without further prompting? Make an executive decision and stand by it.

 

[[DiGa] Doc Roe]

Im sure theyd much rather run a small subs based league, and recieve their free subs, than a big free one and get sod all.

This free subs really is influencing the admins decision if we like it or not the league will be subs.

if not this season next 1. My guess is if they receive more than 32 clans saying yes by email it will go ahead with these clans regardless of wheater they played in season 1 or season cup

 

[kendle]

I copied the contents of the email from Barrys onto my Clan's forum. Two of my Clan are currently subscribers, and a 3rd has indicated that he would be prepared to sign up, but in general the post has been met with apathy.

I agree with Doc Roe above. I don't doubt for one moment that as soon as 32 Clans (or however many they feel they need) sign up for a subs league, that's what they'll get and the rest will have to go look elsewhere. This isn't about whether Barrys should be a subs league or not, it's about how many are prepared to sign on the dotted line. If the answer is enough, then subs it will be. Not that that is a criticism. If you were Barrys and you've got a bunch of people willing to give you a few thousand pounds to provide a league, and another group of people not prepared to pay you a penny for providing a league, who are you going to want to deal with?

Besides, what are the alternatives?

Jolt - 2 recent failed attempts to get the league going, will it be 3rd time lucky?

ClanBase - we like it but then we haven't been in it that long, and unlike Barrys or Jolt etc, it's not division based with options for promotion and relegation, so eventually you start asking yourself, "what exactly is the point"?

I don't doubt that Season 2 would be infinately better than Season 1, simply because of the quality of the admins now involved, and I can't help but feel from the posts on this thread that the advantages of a subs league, and disadvantages of a free league, are both being over-exagerated.

However, you pay your money (or not), you make your choice. A free (possibly shambolic but probably not) league, or a paid for, well organised league.

I think Barrys should either annouce a cut off date for when a decision will be made, or admit it's a case of "when enough say yes" so that those that have already decided they're not willing to pay can make other arrangements. At the moment I'm holding Sunday/Monday open in anticipation of playing in the league, which is beginning to look increasingly less likely.

 

[bigbb]

A very fair point, Kendle. We'll try and put a rubber stamp on it by the end of the week, if not earlier. I think the team are just as anxious as yourselves to get a decision and move on, but equally they do want the clans to be able to discuss it.

I must say I think it's unfair to suggest that admins receiving free subscriptions, for the countless hours they work they contribute, is influencing their decision. They, afterall, are players of the RTCW community just like yourselves and all hold very strong views about P2P. Some are avidly against any proposed move (Re: BodySnatcher) and they're just as precious about the future of the community and game as you are.

I think Kendle answered the question about majority decisions.

I'm closing this thread now, not to infuriate, i'm sorry if you don't feel you've had your say. But, we've reached the point of inconclusion and there's little point in treading old battle grounds. We'll keep you updated via the league webby and indeed here.

Thank you for all your comments and feedback. This was always going to be a controversial topic with strong views. But, we've been delighted with the balanced and objective approach everyone has shown in what has been a constructive discussion.

Update - Decision on webby: http://leagues.barrysworld.net/bwrtcwl/