Bonedancers VS The other classes/Realms..

[Overdriven]

Okay... I'm a 50BD... I just moved over from Mid/Pryd to Alb/Excal and posted a PL post as a joke to see the responces..

I've noticed over the boards that most people have a problem with people who have 50BDs...

Anyone care to explain why?

 

[Ormorof]

because they are overpowered.... not that infils are or minstrels

put a thane in your sig too, then people are more sympathetic

 

[acei]

EXTREMELY overpowered class with healing pets and a 4sec (or is it 3?) instant-lifetap.

 

[Thegreatest]

Like we dont have enough of these bd topics already

 

[Ormorof]

havent seen any for a while actually

silly to ignore someone because they play a certain class, if everyone ignored infils half of albion would be ignored

 

[Chimaira]

bloddy infils

/points @ my own sig :touch:

 

[Aoln]

It's a retards class.

 

[Thegreatest]

Just ignore anyone who has either a merc, infil or necro and I'm almost 100% sure that you will ignore whole albion

 

[Shike]

Okay... I'm a 50BD... I just moved over from Mid/Pryd to Alb/Excal and posted a PL post as a joke to see the responces..

I've noticed over the boards that most people have a problem with people who have 50BDs...

Anyone care to explain why?

Because so many classes out there simply dont stand a chanse to kill them solo at all I guess and its considered abit as a onebuttonnoskillclass or something...

 

[Linnet]

Naxos Tetrarch is cute though, when it bothers to summon all its pets.

 

[Overdriven]

It's a 5 Second recast..

But honestly :/ It's stupid. BD's ARE over powered, but so are other classes :/ I mean... Look at Minst :/ DD/Stealth/Stuns... And look at Infs DF [Which I wish wasnt getting nerfd]


EVERY realm has over powered classes :/ Don't see why people can't just accept that and move on.


[Edit: I want all of the over powered classes ... Infil just happens to be my current choise... My next is my necro on PvP ]

 

[Kagato]

DF is getting nerfed anyway, I don't see any of the other realms over-powered classes getting any nerfs anytime soon.

 

[Holt]

Just ignore anyone who has either a merc, infil or necro and I'm almost 100% sure that you will ignore whole albion

Thats pretty lame, I have a wizard and a friar as my only L50's and play my froiar as my main

 

[Schenton]

I have a 50 BD and yes 1 on 1 they are overpowerd. If you can't kill my BD in 2 swing's as a melee char you will die. Casters whit MoC will kill me or if it is a bolt class and the 2 bolt's do enough dmg to kill. I have hade mincers mezz my pet's and stun me usualy I will die then.

But the only thing I use it for now is farming scrolls and artifacts. The lag in Mid/Prydwens ToA zone is realy bad but that don't affect my pets for some reason. Commander will hitt and healer's will heal but my 4sec insta is now 8-12sec so I'm saving power

 

[Fafnir]

DF is getting nerfed anyway, I don't see any of the other realms over-powered classes getting any nerfs anytime soon.

Perhaps animist needs a nerf aswell, have not seen any bd's taking over apk.

 

[Balbor]

Funny thing is that Infis became overpowered after SBs had LA and End regen nerfed.

 

[Korax]

Funny thing is that Infis became overpowered after SBs had LA and End regen nerfed.

became....? What planet are you from?

 

[Balbor]

as for BD, any number of small changes would probably make them more acceptable, reducing the range, recast time or % of health stolen (if not all 3). It does all seem to come down to that one spell (and the fact its on the same spec line as there healing pets). Even swapping it around with there DD/snare would change the effect BD have on RvR and the game in genral.

 

[Fafnir]

Funny thing is that Infis became overpowered after SBs had LA and End regen nerfed.

Infils been overpowers since they got 2.5 spec points, got 9 sec stun off evade without any problem using it due to the high evade chance they got against most enemies.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Just ignore anyone who has either a merc, infil or necro and I'm almost 100% sure that you will ignore whole albion

do I count? since I rolled my merc at release and I'm crush/shield spec

 

[yaruar]

Because so many classes out there simply dont stand a chanse to kill them solo at all I guess and its considered abit as a onebuttonnoskillclass or something...

Yeah, all those solo stealthers don't stand a chance.

What, you mean people do actually solo stealthers ;-P

And the reason stealthers don't like bonedancers is because it takes skill to kill them and most dragonfang4tehwin players can't cope.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Yeah, all those solo stealthers don't stand a chance.

What, you mean people do actually solo stealthers ;-P

And the reason stealthers don't like bonedancers is because it takes skill to kill them and most dragonfang4tehwin players can't cope.

I don't like bonedancers because almost none of my characters have a chance in hell against them

and my infil is level 9 so I'm not really talking about him ;P (though again he has no chance but that's more down to being level 9)

Wizard, cleric (maybe maybe if I can get a pbaoe mezz on the pets _and_ the BD... and it sticks on them all.... hrm need to try that), merc... no chance.

Wizard and cleric will get interrupted by that lovely 4s instatap.
Merc won't be able to out damage the healing of the pets + the lifetap.

Given pet purge in 1.69 I'm not convinced that even the cleric would have a chance...

if I buy MoC and burn it every time I meet a bonedancer there's a possibility I might be able to kill it I guess.

Edit: incidentally I'm all for casters that can kill stealthers but the bonedancers instantlifetap is 1500 range - it's a caster killer, make it range 500 and I'd be happier... though there are rather a few deficiencies with the lass other than its lifetap which also need looking into.

And the thought of an instadebuff for your instalifetap just horrifies me even if it's not that scary in practice.. that's just a twitch reaction

 

[constanze]

Yeah, all those solo stealthers don't stand a chance.

What, you mean people do actually solo stealthers ;-P

And the reason stealthers don't like bonedancers is because it takes skill to kill them and most dragonfang4tehwin players can't cope.

what do you mean with skill? you need to deal 1400 dmg under 4 secs
so you think its skilled to hope for a big crit to kill a bd?

i my opinion most peopel hate bd becouse its the easiest class in solo fights
i mean you kill someone as a bd while beeing afk....

 

[Shike]

Yeah, all those solo stealthers don't stand a chance.

What, you mean people do actually solo stealthers ;-P

And the reason stealthers don't like bonedancers is because it takes skill to kill them and most dragonfang4tehwin players can't cope.

If you read what I wrote alittle more carefully than briefly you might notice that I take a pretty neutral stance myself. I kill BDs with both my NS and my Chanter so I aint really bothered. There are far worse balanceissues in DAoC than BDs in my eyes.

 

[Shike]

Funny thing is that Infis became overpowered after SBs had LA and End regen nerfed.

eh.. no? Infils have been silleh since they got 2.5x. It should never have been implemented at all.

 

[Marcus75]

I saw a guys post this on the excal boards and I think most of it is true:

I knew this thread would turn into a 'omg bds are so over powered' thread, but here's an admittedly bias response.

I play all the mid caster classes, and I've played them with a range of specs in both PvE and RvR. I don't consider my Bonedancer any more overpowered than my Runemaster or my Spiritmaster. Each class has its niche, its roll to play, and situation where it will excell.

The Bonedancer is an excellent soloer. One-on-one it is without a doubt formidable, but by no means unbeatable. Most of the people who want to 'nerf' Bonedancers have never really played them to any significant degree (there will be exceptions of course).

Any Bolt caster can take down a Bonedancer with great ease. 2 Bolts and a DD, or even two Bolts with a nice crit will have him eating dust in the time it takes to /lastattacker /face. Is that overpowered? No. Bolt casters are designed to take down casters quicky and from range.

An Enchanter can QC Stun [Stun one of the healers if so inclined], and Debuff & Nuke away. Healer pets cannot keep up with debuffed nuke damage. Is that overpowered? Some would say that yes it is, but I don't think so. The Enchanter is designed to be a high damage-output Caster, and thats what it is.

An Animist can take down a Bonedancer with a variable degree of ease, depending on the turrert situation, and using Bombers.

A Cabalist can take down a Bonedancer. AoE Disease destroys green con healers who will spaz about ping ponging heals between the Caster, the Commander and themselves. The Stunning pet can melee the Bonedancer while the Cabalist retreats to safe casting distance and finshes off the Bonedancer with Lifetaps, or reapplies the DoT/Disease.

A Sorcerer can take down a Bonedancer with great ease. AoE Mez will render the pets useless. Even if the Bonedancer purges, his pets remain Mezzed for full duration. Tactics will depend on the Sorc's charmed Pet; if its a Tank, send it in to mellee the Bonedancer and keep him interrupted. If its a healer keep it back, etc. If the pet procs a Stun or something, even better. Matter specced can DoT to keep the Bonedancer limited to his Lifetap and staff as his only damage mechanism. Finish him off with DD/Lifetap/Whatever.

Any Stealther can take out a Bonedancer. Infiltrators & Nightshades; Critical Strike, Str/Con Debuffs up to 118, though more likely around 70, and Disease/DoT will significanly reduce the Bonedancer's hitpoints (and maybe even encumber them), and keep them interrupted or reduce healer effect. Swinging every 1.5 seconds against AF51 cloth armour does a lot of damage, combined with the initial PA (that punctures bladeturn), all the Bonedancer can do is Lifetap (he daren't melee since he'll just get evade-styled), which vs 26% resists, doesn't get enough HP back to keep him alive. Healer pets have a variable delay with their initial heal; the Bonedancer might be lucky and get healed straight away after the initial PA, but then again they might not get a heal off before he's dead. It depends which way the coin falls.

Scouts and Rangers won't have a hard time with a Bonedancer. They can use Penetrating Arrow/Rapid fire to take the Bonedancer out before he can hit /face. Correct me if i'm wrong, but Bow range > /face range anyway, so you can be shot by a well placed archer class without having a clue where its coming from. A Bonedancer is easily 2/3/4 shotted before his pets can get off a heal.

While the above is true, a Bonedancer can kill any of the classes I've mentioned, and any other class for that matter. It depends on a lot of factors. Skill, RAs, Buffs, Equipment, RR. The playing field is very often not level, so a fight could go either way, but the reality of a Bonedancer is a far cry from the god-like, untouchable, killing machine that can solo full groups without breaking a sweat.

There are classes like pure tanks and some hybrids, who will struggle against a solo Bonedancer, as will pure healer classes, but then a lot of classes WILL struggle solo against a lot of other classes, the game was designed that way.

Another point to consider is the reality of RvR at this time. Its not a soloers game any more. The environment is one of zerging, even stealthers tend to run in pairs these days, especially Mincers and Infils. Bonedancers are pretty much forced to solo, or run in specialist groups like this one, so they need to be equipped to be functional in that niche. The 'fotm' spec is the most functional line Bonedancers have available to them. It affoards them an unprecidented level of survivability for a pure Caster class, and a lot of people are not used to that, a Caster class that you can't simply walk up to, melee for 4 seconds and whore in the RPs.

A Supp/Dark Bonedancer is a unique kind of entity. They have pets that can heal 15% of their HP every so often, and a 3s uninteruptable Lifetap that does damage and takes a small number of hp. The Healer pets are nothing that people who run in normal groups don't get, or a Sorc with the right pet doesn't get. They are easily controlled by Mez/Stun with will effect them full duration. They have the added weakness of being connected to the Commander, so kill one target, in effect you kill three. The Lifetap can be debuffed to have added punch, but still returns only a small portion of the damage as hitpoints to the Caster. That alone should not be enough to keep the Bonedancer alive against any meaningful damage. It has interrupt potential once every 3s (most casting times are 2s or less with RAs), and it won't stop a melee char from swinging at you, or any other insta using class from firing theirs at you.

Pets are a great strength, and an extraordinary weakness of this class. The Lifetap is the saving grace, and is what makes a Bonedancer what it is; a Caster that it often takes skill to kill. At the end of the day though, we do our damage on a 3s timer at limited range, and with an unspecced highpower baseline nuke with clamped focus.

Don't judge too hashly if you haven't played one in RvR at 50. They don't scale well, and are far from the damage dealers a lot of Casters are. They are capable soloers, and rather unique when grouped.

I've rambled far too long, but Mythic are satisifed with the Supp Line as it is, and there are no plans to change it. Their future plans for the Bonedancer are to fix the BA and Dark lines to be more attractive.

The thread is here and the poster is Rivan.

Sure a bd is very good 1 vs 1 but then what? How often do you have 1 vs 1 fights these days? Sometimes in DF sure but otherwise they are very rare. In a group a bd can work well also but you die very fast as soon as the ma-train realizes there is a bd in the group - often even before the seers. While we are good/great at certains situations we are not at all as great in a group due to other caster classes being more wanted and doing more damage usually.

 

[yaruar]

I don't like bonedancers because almost none of my characters have a chance in hell against them

and my infil is level 9 so I'm not really talking about him ;P (though again he has no chance but that's more down to being level 9)

Wizard, cleric (maybe maybe if I can get a pbaoe mezz on the pets _and_ the BD... and it sticks on them all.... hrm need to try that), merc... no chance.

Wizard and cleric will get interrupted by that lovely 4s instatap.
Merc won't be able to out damage the healing of the pets + the lifetap.

Given pet purge in 1.69 I'm not convinced that even the cleric would have a chance...

if I buy MoC and burn it every time I meet a bonedancer there's a possibility I might be able to kill it I guess.

Edit: incidentally I'm all for casters that can kill stealthers but the bonedancers instantlifetap is 1500 range - it's a caster killer, make it range 500 and I'd be happier... though there are rather a few deficiencies with the lass other than its lifetap which also need looking into.

And the thought of an instadebuff for your instalifetap just horrifies me even if it's not that scary in practice.. that's just a twitch reaction

With decent dex and speed increases from toa a straight caster should be able to get 2 or 3 casts in for every tap a sup dancer can make.

Stealthers do stand a chance, lifetap shouldn't be able to outheal damage caused, and healers can be negated by a disease poison.
Although, yeah, bonedancers are a tough class, just not an immortal one, they take a bit of working out. TBH all you need is a bolting class as you can usually 2 shot a dancer with bolts... ;-)

Although i di find it funny that infiltrators in general moan about bonedancers when they can consistantly win 1 on 1 toe to toe with heavy tanks......

 

[Thegreatest]

Thats pretty lame, I have a wizard and a friar as my only L50's and play my froiar as my main

Just wanted to state that almost every alb has either a necro, mercenary or an infiltrator on his account. I didnt state this should be a lvl 50 toon, but whats wrong with it? Stating that doesnt make me lame does it?

 

[Thegreatest]

do I count? since I rolled my merc at release and I'm crush/shield spec

You're still a mercenary, even if you have specced 50 slash 50 thrust 28 crush

I dont agree with the big post about 'how to kill bd's' from someone above, that post is maybe true if the bd you are fighting has zero brain...Most of the tictacs mentioned there are counter-able by the bd, like the bonedancer doesnt have anything to counter these tactics...For example, it says that aoe diseasing the bd + pets will help, ok you've casted qc aoe disease, put pet on the bd and you're running away (while the bd is insta lifetapping you). Lets say the stun did proc, you want to cast something on the bd but oh too bad the pets are interrupting you! Hmm lets take care about the pets, oh no the bd insta lifetaps you and you are interrupted!

Afaik, all cabalist nukes/dots are 1500 range so unless the bd is stunned for a long time, you just cant cast those spells cause the bd will insta interrupt you (the cabby pet doesnt proc stun that much..). Only thing that will help the cabalist is nearsight (if he's specced for that) but you first need to get out of the insta-lifetap range to cast that and it will be hard to do with a pet chasing you and the bd interrupting...

My opinion about the only classes who can kill a bd with 50/50 chance:
1) Air theurgist (easy imo, if aoe mezz doesnt get resisted that is or the bd doesnt purge :/)
2) Bolt caster (you need to have full range advantage but that isnt gonna be easy. Even if you have range you prob. wont take the bd down with 2 bolts so you'll die eventually)
3) Sc'ed/Buffed sb/ns/infil (won't be hard to take a bd down with the pa chain)

Imo those are the only 3 classes that can take a bd down with some easy. Other classes will have a hard time 1-on-1. Also a moc caster will always beat a bd but you'll need a RA for that which costs a lot so not every caster will have moc.

 

[Jaem-]

Funny thing is that Infis became overpowered after SBs had LA and End regen nerfed.

Hmm, I dunno when people found out that DW spec hits freakin hard, and CS spec PA's harder then CS speced ns/sb... ;P