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Sar
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- #121
Sad but true Dams
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Sad but true Dams
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throdgrain
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- #122
*squeaky voice*
you didnt read my post did you ?
Actually I wasnt replying to you, but obviously you didnt read my post. I accept that people have clinical depression. However to imply that every 4th spotty out of class cb1 or whatever needs prozac is perfectly ridiculous
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stu
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- #123
I don't think anyone implied that?
And yes, he is ignorant. And so are you. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm merely stating a fact. You don't really know anything about depression, what causes it, what affects it, what the physiological, emotional and biochemical symptoms are (because, believe it or not, depression is actually an illness, with physical symptoms), or how and why it is treated. You're not alone - unfortunately I'd say 99.9% of the population also doesn't understand what it is. I myself used to have a similar impression of the illness, but suffering from it certainly changes your perspective.
I couldn't give a shit about whatever sweeping generalisations that you care to make about 'one in four teenagers' (although you must be both a qualified psychologist and a powerful clairvoyant to diagnose them all, I'm impressed). Just ask yourself this - would you make light of any other illness? Would you ever say anything like "cancer patients - what a bunch of whiners. Most of them don't even need chaemo"? Of course not. So what makes depression so different? Nothing except your own ignorance as to what it is.
And yes, he is ignorant. And so are you. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm merely stating a fact. You don't really know anything about depression, what causes it, what affects it, what the physiological, emotional and biochemical symptoms are (because, believe it or not, depression is actually an illness, with physical symptoms), or how and why it is treated. You're not alone - unfortunately I'd say 99.9% of the population also doesn't understand what it is. I myself used to have a similar impression of the illness, but suffering from it certainly changes your perspective.
I couldn't give a shit about whatever sweeping generalisations that you care to make about 'one in four teenagers' (although you must be both a qualified psychologist and a powerful clairvoyant to diagnose them all, I'm impressed). Just ask yourself this - would you make light of any other illness? Would you ever say anything like "cancer patients - what a bunch of whiners. Most of them don't even need chaemo"? Of course not. So what makes depression so different? Nothing except your own ignorance as to what it is.
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throdgrain
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But that is what people here seem to be implying surely ? Like I have already said, yeah there are folks with clinical depression, Im sure its tough. But all ,(or rather half) these posts seem to be saying that its dead common and quite normal to trot along to the quacks for a tablet. This is not the way to deal with being a bit pissed off , you're just going to make it into a problem thats not even there. And being a mental problem, deciding you have it is half the thing.
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ReActor
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- #125
Can I just make it clear that I only posted that to troll for a laugh. I have faith that Ignus isn't dumb enough to take my terrible advice.
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FatBusinessman
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- #126
Originally posted by ReActor
Can I just make it clear that I only posted that to troll for a laugh. I have faith that Ignus isn't dumb enough to take my terrible advice.
From what Ignus has posted so far, I wouldn't bank on it.
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Wazzerphuk
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- #127
Well said.
And throd, be a dear and fuck off, you're so utterly clueless it's ridiculous.
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throdgrain
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- #128
Bollocks waz. Im sorry to quote myself, but read that post again. These people just make money out of our weaknesses. I agree , there is a big diference between depressed and depression. The trouble is the doctors these days dont see the difference.Bit fed up? Give em a prozac. Cant sleep? Give em a temazipam. Done a bit of smack ? Give em methadone.
How dare you say im clueless ? You have no idea what Ive done, or where Ive been, or what Ive seen.
I found a guy who was so depressed he set fire to himself only last year. Half burned, half pink like a lobster. How was he feeling do you think that Boxing day when he poured diesel over himself
and set light? I know how I felt when i found him.
To compare what that bloke must have been going through with some of the "manufactured" illnesses the doctors like to serve up these days is fucking laughable.
Do yourself a favour mate, and stop taking the moral fucking high ground on every issue , and consider what people are saying to you.
(Perhaps we could all do with doing that, myself included.)
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(Shovel)
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- #129
Throd, the point people are making is that depression is NOT a made up illness. I think you might have acknowledged that, and maybe we need a separate term for "phantom" depression in the situations where attention seekers are involved.
The reason you are getting people irritated is your unwillingness to separate the two - or clarify whom you're talking about.
If this discussion is still about those who are attention seeking - which hasn't been properly justified at all - then sure, speak out on that, but you are branding people who genuinely suffer.
I'm denying that people fake it, I've never said anything to the contrary, but you're seriously underestimating what this illness does to people and who it can happen to.
The reason you are getting people irritated is your unwillingness to separate the two - or clarify whom you're talking about.
If this discussion is still about those who are attention seeking - which hasn't been properly justified at all - then sure, speak out on that, but you are branding people who genuinely suffer.
I'm denying that people fake it, I've never said anything to the contrary, but you're seriously underestimating what this illness does to people and who it can happen to.
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stu
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- #130
Actually, no-one has said anything of the sort. You went off on that tangent all by yourself.
As for being normal to "trot along to the quacks for a tablet"... again, draw the comparison between depression and any other illness. Here, I'll do it for you.
You contract a virus (we'll leave it nonspecific). You have recognisable physical symptoms. You get anti-biotics (again, nonspecific) - these target the virus organism and kill it, thus making you healthy again. Are we agreed that taking tablets/painkillers/etc is an acceptable course of action? ok, we'll continue.
Someone who suffers from depression has physical symptoms, and there is a physiological imbalance that causes that condition. In the case of a virus, it's our micro-organism - in the case of depression, it's elevated levels of neurochemicals (eg seratonin), faulty neurotransmitters, etc. Note that these are physical effects - I can't overstress this. The anti-depressant (be it Prozac, Seroxat, Citalopram, whatever) is most likely an SSRI - A Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor. That is, it blocks the reuptake of seratonin by your neurotransmitters in your brain. Again, this is a physical effect. An anti-depressant does exactly the same as an anti-biotic - it targets the physiological elements of the illness.
I think the mistake that you make (and a lot of people make) is that anti-depressants are designed to *cure* depression. They do nothing of the sort. They merely balance neuro-chemical levels within your brain. They don't make you happy, they don't numb the pain, they don't deal with the causes of depression - they simply put you in a position where you're more likely to be able to deal with the emotional causes and elements of depression. In exactly the same way that an anti-biotic puts your immune system in the position where it is more able to deal with an infection.
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Mellow-
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- #131
Some people are making sense here.
Others are not.
Still amusing to see everyone scramble for the moral high ground when ultimately. From the first post, the guy should just forget about the headcase girl in the first place.
Avoid contact with her = no problem for him = Problem Solved
Others are not.
Still amusing to see everyone scramble for the moral high ground when ultimately. From the first post, the guy should just forget about the headcase girl in the first place.
Avoid contact with her = no problem for him = Problem Solved
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throdgrain
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- #132
Shovel, Ive seen what this thing can do to people . First hand, as described above.
What im arguing against is the sudden idea fostered these days by bloody tv talk shows and suchlike that going to the doctors cos you feel a bit down to get a prozac or whatever is a good move. Quite the reverse, once you start taking the things it can often become the real illness. Th bloody things are self perpetuating. One of my mechanics has recently been prescribed some kind of anti-depressants. A guy I know who runs a shop down the road, the same thing. I really, really think it is a very bad thing, and can often make things much much worse. If I havent explained that properly, my apologies, but such pc bollocks that is spouted sometimes winds me up a treat. Its something that has come about very recently too, this prescribing stuff. I know a bloke , many years ago who had been taking heroin for a couple of years, got himself into a right bad state, had no money , all the very bad stuff that comes with that shit. Then he got hepatitus, and was even more ill during the 5 months it took to get over that. During that time he actually considered suicide. But in the end it wasnt drugs that got him out of it, but self determination, and the desire to win over all the shit in his life. And he did.
I guess really Im talking more about the suicidal aspects of the earlier posts linked to depression, and how this fake attention seeking stuff is a big waste of space.
/sorry for long post, but its important to me, but not easy to get over.
What im arguing against is the sudden idea fostered these days by bloody tv talk shows and suchlike that going to the doctors cos you feel a bit down to get a prozac or whatever is a good move. Quite the reverse, once you start taking the things it can often become the real illness. Th bloody things are self perpetuating. One of my mechanics has recently been prescribed some kind of anti-depressants. A guy I know who runs a shop down the road, the same thing. I really, really think it is a very bad thing, and can often make things much much worse. If I havent explained that properly, my apologies, but such pc bollocks that is spouted sometimes winds me up a treat. Its something that has come about very recently too, this prescribing stuff. I know a bloke , many years ago who had been taking heroin for a couple of years, got himself into a right bad state, had no money , all the very bad stuff that comes with that shit. Then he got hepatitus, and was even more ill during the 5 months it took to get over that. During that time he actually considered suicide. But in the end it wasnt drugs that got him out of it, but self determination, and the desire to win over all the shit in his life. And he did.
I guess really Im talking more about the suicidal aspects of the earlier posts linked to depression, and how this fake attention seeking stuff is a big waste of space.
/sorry for long post, but its important to me, but not easy to get over.
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bodhi
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- #133
It seems to me this people really are getting the wrong end of the stick here. Me, throddy and one or two others are taking the piss out of the "lifestyle" depressive who have nothing wrong with them whatsoever and are just generally miserable fucksticks. Whereas Wazz, Stu etc are defending the ones who are actually ill. So why are you arguing?
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stu
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- #135
Probably because...
...that distinction didn't seem to worry you before. Still, if that's your way of backpedalling, I'll pretend I didn't notice.
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old.ignus
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- #136
Wow a whole big thread grew from my problem. If you fancy an update I've decided that she isn't worth it and that I can do better. Met a girl a few hours ago through one of my female friends who seems really nice and the three of us went to watch spiderman. Not a bad film but the cinema was absolute shite, the seats made my bad hip play up and the screen jumps so bad that you suffer from motion sickness, anyway, got on really well and I hope I can spend some more time with her before she goes back to her job, in the army.
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bodhi
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- #137
Who said I was talking about the ill people? Still, if that's your way of trying to look intelligent, I'll pretend I didn't notice.
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stu
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- #138
if "intelligent" = comprehension of the english language
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bodhi
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Originally posted by stu
if "intelligent" = comprehension of the english language
Your comprehension of the english language obviously doesn't stretch to understanding how punctuation can change the meaning of a statement.
I have no problem with people who suffer from depression. It's the ones who "suffer" from it who irritate me.
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Perplex
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I've suffered from Dysthymia for about 10 years (low grade manic depression) with random bouts of acute depression brought about from life circumstances. I don't lament about it, as I reached a point many years ago in my life where I accepted it and just carried on with what needed to be done. Yes, I have my low days, and yes I have up days, but ultimately you just have to get on with it.
People that lament day in and day out about how miserable they are irritate me. I just want to give them a kick up the backside and tell them to join the back of the queue, and get on with it like the rest of the planet. It's the Human Condition, deal with it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't berate people with depression that incessantly harp on about how terrible things are for them, but it does annoy me a tad.
Also, Shovel, I'm pretty sure that you're wrong. SSRI's are given to people with almost all forms of depression, be it clinical (physiological) or psychological. Allowing a person with depression to retain more serotonin gives them a 'natural' high. This allows them to more easily combat the issues that have either a) trained their brain into reduced serotinin levels from prolonged or repeated life circumstances or b) from those that are psychologically imbalanced and need to address the issues that are making them upset.
It's funny really, because Extacy works on the same parts of the human brain. The aformentioned narcotic causes the brain to over-produce serotonin giving them the 'loved up' high, SSRI's work by not letting your neurotransmitters soak up too much serotonin meaning again, there is an abundance (or rather, a normal amount seeing as they are usually deficient).
Hmmm, bed I think
People that lament day in and day out about how miserable they are irritate me. I just want to give them a kick up the backside and tell them to join the back of the queue, and get on with it like the rest of the planet. It's the Human Condition, deal with it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't berate people with depression that incessantly harp on about how terrible things are for them, but it does annoy me a tad.
Also, Shovel, I'm pretty sure that you're wrong. SSRI's are given to people with almost all forms of depression, be it clinical (physiological) or psychological. Allowing a person with depression to retain more serotonin gives them a 'natural' high. This allows them to more easily combat the issues that have either a) trained their brain into reduced serotinin levels from prolonged or repeated life circumstances or b) from those that are psychologically imbalanced and need to address the issues that are making them upset.
It's funny really, because Extacy works on the same parts of the human brain. The aformentioned narcotic causes the brain to over-produce serotonin giving them the 'loved up' high, SSRI's work by not letting your neurotransmitters soak up too much serotonin meaning again, there is an abundance (or rather, a normal amount seeing as they are usually deficient).
Hmmm, bed I think
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Stazbumpa
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- #141
I'm with Bodhi on this one. I know FAR TOO MANY people that claim the depression illness, but in reality they are just a bunch of boring misery guts. I am well aware of what clinical depression can do and also how bad it can be, but the vast majority of people dont have it, even though they say they do.
99% of the time its just attention seeking gimps that need to get out more.
99% of the time its just attention seeking gimps that need to get out more.
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stu
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- #142
You need to put the inverted commas on "depression", not "suffer". They serve as an editorial note, denoting the writer's scepticism of the written term - much like (sic). Hence it is the legitimacy of the condition in certain cases, not the endurance, that you are questioning.
Save the patronising tone for something you know about, it makes you look like less of a fool when you're wrong.
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granny
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- #143
SSRI's do have a place in the treatment of a range of illnesses, not least depression, and as others have very correctly said they don't cure depression but they can provide some respite from the debilitating effects and give people some "breathing space" in which to try and tackle the issues underlying their depression.
However there is a very negative side to them too - they can have quite severe side-effects and they can have pronounced long term effects too. My mother (among other people I know) was on SSRI's for a period of about a year and they have changed her personality quite dramatically. She's been off them for over 2 years now and yet she is still markedly changed from who she was beforehand. Of course these changes could also be caused by the series of traumatic events that led to her starting the SSRI's in the first place but she's not the only person I know who's been altered by these drugs.
I believe that there is a massive problem with the use of SSRI's by the medical establishment at the moment in that they are being grossly over-used. The pressures on GP's to see ever-increasing numbers of patients in shorter and shorter times with smaller and smaller budgets leads to difficult illnesses such as depression being treated far too frequently with things like SSRI's rather than trying to tackle the root problems or treat patients in a more holistic fashion. Cases of depression and anxiety etc are also steadily on the increase for whatever reason and this is turning into a drug companie's paradise.
That's simplified and not exactly right but it's close enough (MDMA also works by interfering with serotonin re-uptake) to illustrate that these chemical neurotransmitters in our bodies are complex chemicals with delicately balanced interactions and in my opinion messing about with them, either for recreational purposes or medical ones, is a very risky thing to do.
There's a lot of truly idiotic things been said on this thread by certain people and things that have been said that could really upset and hurt some people. Please, would it be possible for everyone to actually think a bit before making comments? There's also been some genuinely interesting discussion and some very good points made, it would be a shame for the thread to descend into idiocy.
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throdgrain
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- #144
Get a grip you silly buggers. You're arguing over the placement of inverted commas now for gods sake
I think really with hindsight my dig really is at the " im going to kill myself " brigade, every other week
No one would say that there aren't people who really suffer from depression, as an illness, but they aren't as many as people would have you believe. they're surely not all 18 year old girls either .
Where you and I disagree Stu, is on the subject of treatment. your comments on get a virus go to the doctors I cant see really. The thing is, if you get a virus , yes anti biotics will cure it. The thing with mental illness I would say is that giving someone pills is quite often enough to convince them they are mentally ill, and could quite often make matters considerably worse. I guess we're not going to agree on that subject though, so I'll not persue it any further.
I think really with hindsight my dig really is at the " im going to kill myself " brigade, every other week
No one would say that there aren't people who really suffer from depression, as an illness, but they aren't as many as people would have you believe. they're surely not all 18 year old girls either .
Where you and I disagree Stu, is on the subject of treatment. your comments on get a virus go to the doctors I cant see really. The thing is, if you get a virus , yes anti biotics will cure it. The thing with mental illness I would say is that giving someone pills is quite often enough to convince them they are mentally ill, and could quite often make matters considerably worse. I guess we're not going to agree on that subject though, so I'll not persue it any further.
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~YuckFou~
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- #145
Ignus, you are young I think, just at the beginning of your life.
Ask yourself a question...
Do you want to spend time with a girl who seeks attention by (maybe) slitting her wrists or with a girl who is fun to be with?
My advice would be to forget this episode, move on, find somebody else, let someone else deal with her problems. Long term she will cause you more and more problems. She is obviously not averse to using emotional blackmail, a pathetic tool. She will also be very demanding, jealous and insecure.
Analogy.
I need to buy a car soonish. Company car opt out etc.
I have always fancied a TVR.
They are great to look at, fast etc (imo).
They are also a nightmare to run, they break down and it takes TVR weeks to effect repairs. So I'm not buying a TVR, it would just cause me problems. There are lots of other nice looking, fast and reliable motors available, I'll get one of those.
You should do the same.
(edited due to lost plot)
Ask yourself a question...
Do you want to spend time with a girl who seeks attention by (maybe) slitting her wrists or with a girl who is fun to be with?
My advice would be to forget this episode, move on, find somebody else, let someone else deal with her problems. Long term she will cause you more and more problems. She is obviously not averse to using emotional blackmail, a pathetic tool. She will also be very demanding, jealous and insecure.
Analogy.
I need to buy a car soonish. Company car opt out etc.
I have always fancied a TVR.
They are great to look at, fast etc (imo).
They are also a nightmare to run, they break down and it takes TVR weeks to effect repairs. So I'm not buying a TVR, it would just cause me problems. There are lots of other nice looking, fast and reliable motors available, I'll get one of those.
You should do the same.
(edited due to lost plot)
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Munkey-
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- #146
I'm actually 15 and I want a mini cooper as I watch the Italian job too much
And i belive you refrenced to the totally wrong person ~YuckFou~
but still. Very good advice that I agree with
And i belive you refrenced to the totally wrong person ~YuckFou~
but still. Very good advice that I agree with
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~YuckFou~
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- #147
You are quite right
after reading all 6 pages I kinda lost the plot.
after reading all 6 pages I kinda lost the plot.
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throdgrain
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- #148
Didnt we all
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.cage
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- #149
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*Exor*
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- #150
You should all just come clubbing with me. I'll get you all some fucking good pills and we'll dance till the early hours of the morning. All of your arguments and problems will seem a million miles away.
Sorted? Ok, good.
Sorted? Ok, good.
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