Black or Female US President ?

[Iceforge]

Aye, if you think of "worker" as a dockworker etc, ofcourse. Those guys are brutal

But i think Gorb meant that a highly educated, highly paid guy(teachers are workers in my mind) is less racist then the sh*tshoveler down the street based solely on the fact they may dislike immigrants taking their jobs.

And, forgetting the whole xenophobia thing that often is the case in rich, white, highclass/edu communities.

Thats why I prefered sticking to book educated vs. not book educated (doctors, teachers = book educated while plummer and dock worker = not book educated) rather than worker vs. middleclass as that sort of confuses the entire principle.

being rich != book education.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Thats why I prefered sticking to book educated vs. not book educated (doctors, teachers = book educated while plummer and dock worker = not book educated) rather than worker vs. middleclass as that sort of confuses the entire principle.

being rich != book education.

Aye, though i have to say that sometimes being poor = book educated too

also in Gorbs case i don't think he's talking about full spectrum of racism, just the "took our jobs" racism.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Aye, if you think of "worker" as a dockworker etc, ofcourse. Those guys are brutal

But i think Gorb meant that a highly educated, highly paid guy(teachers are workers in my mind) is less racist then the sh*tshoveler down the street based solely on the fact they may dislike immigrants taking their jobs.

And, forgetting the whole xenophobia thing that often is the case in rich, white, highclass/edu communities.

Then you think wrong and i wish you people were smart enough to realise how completely you just got owned. As soon as you realised that not even iceforge agrees with you, you start talking this bullshit. I never said its only because they take their jobs but i used it as one example.

As iceforge already pointed out, the guy doing the manual labor (i used plummer as an example) is, ON AVERAGE, more racist. You denied this and now you say its true when iceforge says it.

Also, i already said that the "not meeting them much" thing is a good point but the "taking jobs" thing just creates more racism than that. You cant be dumb enough to deny that. (And now that iceforge isnt you arent either)

iceforge: you have not proven anything that i have said wrong yet. Are you honestly that dumb or is loosing too hard for you? -,-

 

[old.Tohtori]

Then you think wrong and i wish you people were smart enough to realise how completely you just got owned. As soon as you realised that not even iceforge agrees with you, you start talking this bullshit. I never said its only because they take their jobs but i used it as one example.

As iceforge already pointed out, the guy doing the manual labor (i used plummer as an example) is, ON AVERAGE, more racist. You denied this and now you say its true when iceforge says it.

Also, i already said that the "not meeting them much" thing is a good point but the "taking jobs" thing just creates more racism than that. You cant be dumb enough to deny that. (And now that iceforge isnt you arent either)

But i didn't get "owned", as i've never been with you(gees starting to sound like Dori you...and that's saying alot!), adding more and mroe(as i said) vague definitions to your sayings isn't a "owning" factor. It's gone from "workers are more racist", to "on average they are more racist" while this discussion goes on. So choose the f*ck what you want to say and i might agree or not with you.

"they have never had to give up anything because of immigration and therefore have less reason to be racist."

If that's not saying it's because of "they took our jobs", then i don't know what the f*ck is.

You say: High ed people are racist, but workers are racist +1(+1 being the work thing).

Iceforge says: Book educated are less racist. Simple as that.

I'm not agreeing with you not am i being "owned" by some technicality.

It's a bull claim in any case, racism is perons dependent, not class dependent because while workers may have a chip on their shoulder about immigrants taking their jobs, it's balanced out by the xenophobia of "book smart" people.

Just because the dockworker says "racist" things, doesn't make the teacher less racist, just more covert. And honestly, the dockworker can say the racist remarks straight to the targets face, while the high ed guy just laughs with his friends in high ed circles.

 

[Gorbachioo]

But i didn't get "owned", as i've never been with you(gees starting to sound like Dori you...and that's saying alot!), adding more and mroe(as i said) vague definitions to your sayings isn't a "owning" factor. It's gone from "workers are more racist", to "on average they are more racist" while this discussion goes on. So choose the f*ck what you want to say and i might agree or not with you.

"they have never had to give up anything because of immigration and therefore have less reason to be racist."

If that's not saying it's because of "they took our jobs", then i don't know what the f*ck is.

You say: High ed people are racist, but workers are racist +1(+1 being the work thing).

Iceforge says: Book educated are less racist. Simple as that.

I'm not agreeing with you not am i being "owned" by some technicality.

It's a bull claim in any case, racism is perons dependent, not class dependent because while workers may have a chip on their shoulder about immigrants taking their jobs, it's balanced out by the xenophobia of "book smart" people.

Just because the dockworker says "racist" things, doesn't make the teacher less racist, just more covert. And honestly, the dockworker can say the racist remarks straight to the targets face, while the high ed guy just laughs with his friends in high ed circles.

Try to make up your mind now. Are working class people on average more racist than highly educated people?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Try to make up your mind now. Are working class people on average more racist than highly educated people?

Don't avoid complete posts by making this about me and if you look HARD enough, you'll find answer to that in my post.

Try reading, it's fun.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Don't avoid complete posts by making this about me and if you look HARD enough, you'll find answer to that in my post.

Try reading, it's fun.

I did find your answer but as it completely contradicted the answer you had given a couple of posts before i felt like i should ask again.

so one more time: Are working class people on average more racist than highly educated people?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I did find your answer but as it completely contradicted the answer you had given a couple of posts before i felt like i should ask again.

so one more time: Are working class people on average more racist than highly educated people?

So once more:

"Racism is person dependent, not class dependent because while workers may have a chip on their shoulder about immigrants taking their jobs, it's balanced out by the xenophobia of "book smart" people.

Just because the dockworker says "racist" things, doesn't make the teacher less racist, just more covert. And honestly, the dockworker can say the racist remarks straight to the targets face, while the high ed guy just laughs with his friends in high ed circles."

There's nothing contradictive about it.

Now, how about you answer what i've asked/stated?

You think workers are more racist because they loose jobs to immigrants, aka, +1 to other racists, correct?
What is your stance on immigrants?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Originally posted by Iceforge:

"Does depend on the definition of "workers". If one is speaking manual labour vs. office/paper work/teachers then you do find more racism in the manual labour group than in the last.

At least that is the case in Denmark and all studies has shown that."

This was your response to iceforges msg:

Aye, if you think of "worker" as a dockworker etc, ofcourse. Those guys are brutal

Pwnt


And yes that is what i am saying. Personally i dont have anything against immigrants.

 

[old.Tohtori]

HEy let's take all out of context and forget everything else said! Yeeeei!

Not "pwnt", in any way. The smileyface in it means, if you haven't figured this little gem of a internet thing out, that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously and literally as a "dockworkers are uberracist". It means, that dockworkers(as i stated after) are brutal about the racism if they have it.

Not to mention "you'll find" it because they are honestly brutal about it, you won't find it from suits going down the street 'cause they are "educated"(the racists) and just talk about it behind closed doors and huf their nose.

And yes that is what i am saying. Personally i dont have anything against immigrants.

And that's what's wrong because you're not taking into consideration all the other variables in racism.

So you're saying that you believe it's a good thing that immigrants come here and get free flats+support cash and take jobs(not saying this as an opinion)? Just making sure i get your "nothing agianst" correctly.

For someone who claims others lacking in discussion skills, you sure are starting to sound like a pot.

 

[Gorbachioo]

HEy let's take all out of context and forget everything else said! Yeeeei!

Not "pwnt", in any way. The smileyface in it means, if you haven't figured this little gem of a internet thing out, that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously and literally as a "dockworkers are uberracist". It means, that dockworkers(as i stated after) are brutal about the racism if they have it.

Not to mention "you'll find" it because they are honestly brutal about it, you won't find it from suits going down the street 'cause they are "educated"(the racists) and just talk about it behind closed doors and huf their nose.



And that's what's wrong because you're not taking into consideration all the other variables in racism.

So you're saying that you believe it's a good thing that immigrants come here and get free flats+support cash and take jobs(not saying this as an opinion)? Just making sure i get your "nothing agianst" correctly.

For someone who claims others lacking in discussion skills, you sure are starting to sound like a pot.

Now that has to be the weakest excuse ive heard in a while.

I am considering all the other reasons for racism but that is the biggest reason and enough to make the working class more racist on average. (AND YES FOR CHRISTSAKES YEEEEEEES: Some highly educated people are racist because they dont ever meet black people, but the competition thing is a bigger reason.)


I have no idea why im giving you this just so you could use it to make me look bad but here goes: Actually im against immigration (not immigrants) because i think that immigration is a very stupid way to help people. The money we spend on the costs of immigration could be used in the country where they come from and it would do a lot more good than it does here.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Now that has to be the weakest excuse ive heard in a while.

I am considering all the other reasons for racism but that is the biggest reason and enough to make the working class more racist on average. (AND YES FOR CHRISTSAKES YEEEEEEES: Some highly educated people are racist because they dont ever meet black people, but the competition thing is a bigger reason.)


I have no idea why im giving you this just so you could use it to make me look bad but here goes: Actually im against immigration (not immigrants) because i think that immigration is a very stupid way to help people. The money we spend on the costs of immigration could be used in the country where they come from and it would do a lot more good than it does here.

It's no excuse, whatever you meant, i write what i think.

It's the biggest reason in your book, doesn't make it true, just your opinion. AND YEEEES i know what you meant, but i believe it's equal amount of racism on any given place or society stature. And not just because they take jobs or they haven't met black people(many racists have met plenty).

So you are against immigration, and is it possible, just think about it, that those workers are against immigration too, not immigrants as WHO they are?

Immigrants taking jobs is an immigration problem, not an immigrant problem, and as such, you're agianst it in same way they are.

 

[Iceforge]

iceforge: you have not proven anything that i have said wrong yet. Are you honestly that dumb or is loosing too hard for you? -,-

So now you are in denial, huh?

In post #73 of this thread you claimed you had not said meet, but compete, then I pointed out EXCATLY where you said meet (actually met, as you misspelled it) in post #54, and now you say I didnt prove you wrong?

You said meet, then said you didnt say meet, I showed you where you said meet and now you say I didnt show/prove a place where what you had said was wrong?
Are you sure you want to go that far out and start saying that I am the stupid one and that I am the one loosing this debate?

Because you have not made any point against anything I have said that has been valid.

I didnt turn either to belive what you said. I made sure that when I spoke that I didn't misuse a term like working class, because teachers, doctor and such ARE WORKING CLASS, if you want to take it right from the bat, which is why people argued against you in the first place. Old.Tohtori didn't suddenly agree with what you said just because I said it, he agreed because I said it right instead of misusing terms and just expect people to know what I meant with the words I used.

Being stubborn and insisting that you was the one right all along and that you won this debate doesn't really make it true.
But I am sure that you actually meant the right thing all along, which would have meant no disagreement at all, but dont blame us for not understanding you when you say it wrong, instead try and use the right terms the next time.

Old.Tohtori is then arguing another point than us, which is that racism is just as common even in book educated communities as in communities of not book educated, but that the book educated hides it better and spend a lot of time pretending not to be racist.
I personally don't agree with this, but hey, can't agree on everything and don't have any evidence that it is just better hidden in the book educated communities than in the manual work communities.

 

[Raven]

Gorbachioo aren't you in Africa yet feeding all the poor people? Frankly disgusted at your total disregard for their well being.

 

[Gorbachioo]

I said "have never met" which is not incorrect stupid.


And yes i used the word "meet" but only to make the point that they have never had to give up anything (ie compete) because they have never even met a black man. If you dont understand this now then im sorry for you.


Im going to stop this debate now. Talking to you is pointless.


Maybe the thread will get back on topic then ;>

 

[Iceforge]

I said "have never met" which is not incorrect stupid.


And yes i used the word "meet" but only to make the point that they have never had to give up anything (ie compete) because they have never even met a black man. If you dont understand this now then im sorry for you.


Im going to stop this debate now. Talking to you is pointless.


Maybe the thread will get back on topic then ;>

Well, now you are going full circle and is admitting that what I said all along was correct... I don't get you.

was it because my conclusion was not what you liked that you had to go through all this bitching and whining, calling me a liar and saying I was twisting things, just to go back and admit that what I said all along was true, without actually saying that, but your post says it all.

All I did was point out that thinking that people who are less racist are so because they haven't even meet a black person was a wrong and racist assumption to make, because by making the assumption that those who are not racist hasn't even meet a black person, you are saying that those who are racist are so because they have actually meet black people, and by saying that people are racist BECAUSE they have meet black people, you are shifting the blame from being an immature ignorant opinion to be a natural reaction to meeting black people, defending the position and partly giving the blame to black people, sending the ignorant label on to those who are not racist, as they only reason they are not racist is because they don't know black people.

Can you see that or are you so blind that you can't see that it is ONLY thing that statement will naturally mean?

Now, the point is that those who are racist are actually those who has NOT meet black people, but only experienced them in situations they found negative, i.e. they lost their job/contract to someone of another nationality/skin colour, but never meet a black person as a friend, and thusly they might be racist.
But that is the excat opposit of what you said both then and now, because of you wanting to include the "not even meet" part, which totally ruins the validity of your statement.

Can't you see that? Thats what I pointed out all along, but for some reason you had to first deny ever saying it at first, then attack me for twisting stuff and now you are back to admitting you did say that, which just, to me atleast, shows that you aren't really reading what I am saying, but rather just assuming I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

 

[AngelHeal]

well if obama gets it...

PLEASE!!

www.dumpert.nl - Barack Obama over Auschwitz

if you make such mistakes/lies and you wanne be the president? thats like letting new.tohtho drive a car!

 

[Iceforge]

well if obama gets it...

PLEASE!!

www.dumpert.nl - Barack Obama over Auschwitz

if you make such mistakes/lies and you wanne be the president? thats like letting new.tohtho drive a car!

so????

I mean, really, so what?

The point of the story was not "My uncle was in Auschwitz, he was a hero, his blood is in me, I am a hero, vote me!", but it was to go on and talk about threatment about soldiers and what kind of offers are made readily aviable for them, as you can hear in the end before they cut over to the one in the news studio...

So, what does that has to do with the ability about to lead a country?

And I am sorry, but if it is about lies about war, then you shouldnt add Hillary in the end of the clip...

 

[Iceforge]

Also, further research into it shows that Obama has a GREAT-uncle who was part of liberating the OHRDUF camp (part of the Buchenwald camp), first camp to be liberated by U.S. Troops.

So, he forgot the word "Great" and mentioned the wrong name of the concentration camp.

I can really see how that is a major detail.. or not...

Edit: Obama's Auschwitz Gaffe - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime for source

 

[Lamp]

At least Obama is more intelligent than Bush....then again I picked a bit of fluff out of my belly button earlier and it had a higher IQ than Bush...

 

[Amanita]

Aha... So you're defending the racists here? Okay then.


Well arent they? When have you met a highly educated racist? They are HARD to come by.

Oh, good grief. Tohtori's saying that racism isn't limited to poor people. Plenty of rich racists out there too.

 

[Azurus]

At least Obama is more intelligent than Bush....then again I picked a bit of fluff out of my belly button earlier and it had a higher IQ than Bush...

Bush has a higher IQ than Gore.

 

[tierk]

.......if you make such mistakes/lies and you wanne be the president? thats like letting new.tohtho drive a car!

Wonder why you didnt comment on the blatant lies that Hilary was passing out when she was describing her visit to Balkans where according to her she was under sniper fire and the reality was a totally different story.

Now that was lying

 

[old.Tohtori]

if you make such mistakes/lies and you wanne be the president? thats like letting new.tohtho drive a car!

What?!

 

[Iceforge]

Bush has a higher IQ than Gore.

Source?

And please, no estimate IQ from SAT scores, as that is totally unuseable for actual IQ as IQ has nothing to do with Verbal and Math skills which is tested in SAT tests

 

[Azurus]

Source?

And please, no estimate IQ from SAT scores, as that is totally unuseable for actual IQ as IQ has nothing to do with Verbal and Math skills which is tested in SAT tests

Oops meant Kerry.

'Mr. Bush’s score on the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test at age 22 again suggests that his I.Q was the mid-120’s, putting Mr. Bush in about the 95th percentile of the population, according to Mr. Sailer. Mr. Kerry’s I.Q. was about 120, in the 91st percentile, according to Mr. Sailer’s extrapolation of his score at age 22 on the Navy Officer Qualification Test.

Linda Gottfredson, an I.Q. expert at the University of Delaware, called it a creditable analysis said she was not surprised at the results or that so many people had assumed that Mr. Kerry was smarter. “People will often be misled into thinking someone is brighter if he says something complicated they can’t understand,” Professor Gottfredson said.'

http://txfx.net/2004/10/25/bush-had-higher-iq-than-kerry/

I always laugh when people jump on the Bush is stupid bandwagon. His image is carefully doctored to make him seem like the average joe, even his Texas accent is apparently overplayed, he didn't speak like that at Yale.

Let's not forget that he got re-elected, which is quite an achievment, and especially in his first term he was able to unify congress and the executive in a way not seen for decades. You can hardly call the man stupid just because he isn't the greatest public speaker.

 

[tierk]

.......and especially in his first term he was able to unify congress and the executive in a way not seen for decades.....

Maybe 9-11 had something to do with that? Maybe??

 

[Azurus]

Maybe 9-11 had something to do with that? Maybe??

Yep that was a major factor, another being Republican controlled congress. At the end of the day Bush (i.e. Bush administration) had an unparelled amount of influence for a US executive branch, which could be seen as a success in itself.

 

[Platin]

Don't care really as I can't see that much of a difference between the demo and the repub party. Black/white, male/female, republican/democrates, they all belive in capitalism and therefor I don't see how they should change the system from what it is now to something better.

I am just waiting for the american economy to break down.

You should get something to read then, it's gonna take a while until it does.

 

[AngelHeal]

Also, further research into it shows that Obama has a GREAT-uncle who was part of liberating the OHRDUF camp (part of the Buchenwald camp), first camp to be liberated by U.S. Troops.

So, he forgot the word "Great" and mentioned the wrong name of the concentration camp.

I can really see how that is a major detail.. or not...

Edit: Obama's Auschwitz Gaffe - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime for source

if you want to become the president of the united states, u cant really afford to mix up words like these.

now its his great uncle and a camp...
when perhaps he will be elected it may be far more important words.