Black or Female US President ?

[Iceforge]

Working class people do vote for the right but saying that they never vote left is just untrue. The Left is what fights for the worker and if you have to choose between sending your kids to college/getting healthcare and banning abortion/gay marriage what are you going to pick? Some still vote for the republican i know, but saying that they all do is_just_wrong.


Tohtori: I think im going to stop talking to you now. Debating with you is useless because you refuse to use your own brains. If come up with a reasonable argument/one that hasnt been answered already i'll answer it, but im not going to start repeating things as i have before.

I never said that they never do, I did say that 90% of the Fundamentalist Christians and the members of the KKK in USA votes Republican. 90% is not ALL or EVERYBODY leaving NONE to vote the other way.

Btw, quite a few fundamentalist christians have declared that Barack Obama is none less than the ANTI-CHRIST, just to give you an idea of how little they like the left. (go check for yourself at Fundies Say The Darnests Things (fstdt.com))

Never stated any % of which the working class votes whatever side, I started by talking about FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS and RACISTS KKK MEMBERS, how you got that to be uneducated and working class people (even poor as well) is beyond me unless you're head is filled with stereotypes

 

[old.Tohtori]

Tohtori: I think im going to stop talking to you now. Debating with you is useless because you refuse to use your own brains. If come up with a reasonable argument/one that hasnt been answered already i'll answer it, but im not going to start repeating things as i have before.

Hah, cop-out king strikes again.

You're claiming plumbers are more racist then others, because of immigrants and how they say "they tyyk ourrr joooobs!!" while you yourself, i'm betting on anything, hate immigrants as much, and not even because they "took yer jooob", but because...hey...they're immigrants.

 

[Azurus]

while you yourself, i'm betting on anything, hate immigrants as much, and not even because they "took yer jooob", but because...hey...they're immigrants.

Now that's putting words into his mouth. What has he said that would lead you to believe that?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Now that's putting words into his mouth. What has he said that would lead you to believe that?

Just a bloody good hunch that he has something against immigrants taking "yyyr jooobs".

 

[Iceforge]

Now that's putting words into his mouth. What has he said that would lead you to believe that?

It was quite spotable.

He assumed that people who aren't racist are the one who has not meet black people, thats why he imagined rich people being less racist.
That sort of tells you that he thinks one become racist by knowing black people, meaning that people who KNOW anything about the subject are racist and the rest are the ignorant.
Yes, that is starting to analyse his post, but that basicly the subtext I got as well, so as I saw it, Old.Tohtori was hitting someone there.

EDIT: Also, he didn't say that the plummer belived the black person was after his job, but more put it like a factual manner that the black person was indeed going to take the job from the plummer.

just to make it clear, there is nobody who can steal your jobs, end of story.
Either they are getting the same wage as you are and was choosen for the job instead of you, then it is just COMPETITION, and is not different than a white plummer loosing a job to a white plummer.
Or he is paid a lower wage, in which case it is either a violations of the law on the matter and the one hiring him should be turned into the cops for violating the law, or he was paid the minimum wage and it was COMPETITION, no different than a white person willing to do it for a lower fee than you. If the white plummer has been holding the price on their labour artificial high for a long time and that is ruined by immigrants... guess what? It is nobodies fault but their own!

Thats really the 2 possibilities there are, if you look besides affirmative action which is beyond crap.

 

[Gorbachioo]

I never said that they never do, I did say that 90% of the Fundamentalist Christians and the members of the KKK in USA votes Republican. 90% is not ALL or EVERYBODY leaving NONE to vote the other way.

Btw, quite a few fundamentalist christians have declared that Barack Obama is none less than the ANTI-CHRIST, just to give you an idea of how little they like the left. (go check for yourself at Fundies Say The Darnests Things (fstdt.com))

Never stated any % of which the working class votes whatever side, I started by talking about FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS and RACISTS KKK MEMBERS, how you got that to be uneducated and working class people (even poor as well) is beyond me unless you're head is filled with stereotypes

I have never discussed fundamentalism in this thread and i have no idea where you got that from.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Hah, cop-out king strikes again.

You're claiming plumbers are more racist then others, because of immigrants and how they say "they tyyk ourrr joooobs!!" while you yourself, i'm betting on anything, hate immigrants as much, and not even because they "took yer jooob", but because...hey...they're immigrants.

Ok thats it. Im not going to reply to you again.

If someone here thinks im a racist then go see the Africa debate. Im not going to start discussing this bullshit.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ok thats it. Im not going to reply to you again.

If someone here thinks im a racist then go see the Africa debate. Im not going to start discussing this bullshit.

It was a fair point and no i don't mean "racism as in hates blacks", i meant in the context YOU claimed plumbers hate immigrants more. As in, don't you think immigrants shouldn't come here and take our jobs?

 

[Gorbachioo]

It was quite spotable.

He assumed that people who aren't racist are the one who has not meet black people, thats why he imagined rich people being less racist.
That sort of tells you that he thinks one become racist by knowing black people, meaning that people who KNOW anything about the subject are racist and the rest are the ignorant.
Yes, that is starting to analyse his post, but that basicly the subtext I got as well, so as I saw it, Old.Tohtori was hitting someone there.

You know i think im going to stop this whole debate. Talking to you is useless because the only thing you seem to be interested in is making me look bad. You twist my words just for this purpose even if it doesnt contribute to the actual discussion at all.

And its not just this thread. Every time we discuss something you start talking this complete bullshit and i have to explain my views over and over again. Cba with that anymore if you cant debate properly.

 

[Iceforge]

I have never discussed fundamentalism in this thread and i have no idea where you got that from.

Yours post number #19 was made in response to my post #17 where I mentioned fundamentalists and KKK members, which was the start of us debating.

So if you didn't even read my initial post, I wonder why you bothered responding to it?

I didn't suddenly make it up.

It was in response to my speaking about fundamentalists and KKK members that you said that Racists = poor and uneducated = voting left, which lead to massive amounths of responses to you

 

[Iceforge]

You know i think im going to stop this whole debate. Talking to you is useless because the only thing you seem to be interested in is making me look bad. You twist my words just for this purpose even if it doesnt contribute to the actual discussion at all.

And its not just this thread. Every time we discuss something you start talking this complete bullshit and i have to explain my views over and over again. Cba with that anymore if you cant debate properly.

Glad if you didn't mean it like that. I am just saying how it came across to me and that assumptions from reading it are wrong, is just good, because you came off not so nicely.

EDIT: And I am debating properly. If you think it is my mistake that i read what you post, then you are not used to online debating I guess.
Read your post without thinking about what YOU was thinking when you wrote it. Imagine you saw a stranger type that and had to guess his motives behind it, and you would come to the same conclusion I did. It was soaked in prejudgemental attitude. Can't you see how it is borderline racist to assume the reason 1 group of people is less racist is because that group meets blacks less? You are basicly saying that meeting black people makes people racists, i.e. justifying racism.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Any time anyone makes any comment that doesn't fit Gorbs opinions or "facts", it's "bad conversation and you know sh*t all".

Interesting to see it happened right after to iceforge, as it did for me.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Glad if you didn't mean it like that. I am just saying how it came across to me and that assumptions from reading it are wrong, is just good, because you came off not so nicely.

EDIT: And I am debating properly. If you think it is my mistake that i read what you post, then you are not used to online debating I guess.
Read your post without thinking about what YOU was thinking when you wrote it. Imagine you saw a stranger type that and had to guess his motives behind it, and you would come to the same conclusion I did. It was soaked in prejudgemental attitude. Can't you see how it is borderline racist to assume the reason 1 group of people is less racist is because that group meets blacks less? You are basicly saying that meeting black people makes people racists, i.e. justifying racism.

One last try and then im out.

I said that they have to compete for the same jobs not "meet" them. The guy in the big office doesnt have to worry about that because very few immigrants have college degrees which you often need to get there.

This whole discussion is pointless anyway. Denying the fact that there is more prejudice/racism in the working class is stupid because its clearly untrue. We all know its true and that doesnt make working class people any worse than anyone else. It just means what i said it means: There is more racism in the working class.

 

[Iceforge]

One last try and then im out.

I said that they have to compete for the same jobs not "meet" them. The guy in the big office doesnt have to worry about that because very few immigrants have college degrees which you often need to get there.

This whole discussion is pointless anyway. Denying the fact that there is more prejudice/racism in the working class is stupid because its clearly untrue. We all know its true and that doesnt make working class people any worse than anyone else. It just means what i said it means: There is more racism in the working class.

Never argued against that. I argued solely for the point of which was racists vote.

And wanted to reason for that even if the % of people in the working class being racists are higher than the % of people in the upper class being racists, AND at the same time a higher % of people in the working class vote left than the % of people in the upper class voting left, those 2 numbers got nothing to do with each other.

The racists are NOT the ones voting left, as has been showed through many studies and research into the field, or simply by asking spokespeople from various groups that are racist by nature. The generally hate left (democrats) and love right (republicans).

That might have been new information to you, but thats how it is.

 

[CorNokZ]

if that was the case the democrats would always be in power. Uneducated people usually vote right wing so thats not true. In denmark its the same way.

Uneducated people in Denmark vote right wing since when?

Sorry about the OT..

 

[kivik]

One last try and then im out.

I said that they have to compete for the same jobs not "meet" them. The guy in the big office doesnt have to worry about that because very few immigrants have college degrees which you often need to get there.

This whole discussion is pointless anyway. Denying the fact that there is more prejudice/racism in the working class is stupid because its clearly untrue. We all know its true and that doesnt make working class people any worse than anyone else. It just means what i said it means: There is more racism in the working class.

This is a fair point to be honest.

But on the other hand an educated and rich person, as you said, probably won't meet/work with foreign persons which may well lead to prejudice and fear of them. While persons of the working class maybe work with and meet more immigrants and find closer solidarity with them.

But as you said, pointless discussion.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I said that they have to compete for the same jobs not "meet" them. The guy in the big office doesnt have to worry about that because very few immigrants have college degrees which you often need to get there.

This whole discussion is pointless anyway. Denying the fact that there is more prejudice/racism in the working class is stupid because its clearly untrue.

Well that's true only because it's so that the immigrants can't get the highpay jobs. That has little to do with someone being racist more or less.

Like i said, the people in high education/pay are still against immigrants, maybe not directly angry at taking their job, but immigrants none the less.

The worker may be angry that his market is flooded, but that issue isn't about racism, it's about people coming from other ocuntries(anywhere) and taking that countries jobs.

So no, there's no more racism in working class, there's dislike towards having to fight for your job more.

 

[Iceforge]

Uneducated people in Denmark vote right wing since when?

Sorry about the OT..

Well, it has been that way a long time.... Now, the report I read about it was back in my 1st or 2nd year at commercial college (at which point I hated it as I was one of the few left wing people at the right wing kind of school), so that would have been 4-5 years ago, and that study was not revealing anything new.

The more book learning your educations had = the more left you went
The more manual/the less book learning your education had = the more you went to the right.

Sorry, but if you take the average voter for something like DF in Denmark, you will find a "lower" education on that person than on the average voter on "Social Demokraterne" or "Venstre" (both Social Demokraterne and Venstre are very very close to the middle compared to DF)

 

[Iceforge]

One last try and then im out.

I said that they have to compete for the same jobs not "meet" them. The guy in the big office doesnt have to worry about that because very few immigrants have college degrees which you often need to get there.

This whole discussion is pointless anyway. Denying the fact that there is more prejudice/racism in the working class is stupid because its clearly untrue. We all know its true and that doesnt make working class people any worse than anyone else. It just means what i said it means: There is more racism in the working class.

hate replying to same post twice, but just to point it out.
You did, in fact, say MET and not COMPETE!
You might have MEANT compete and not met (meet), but it was not what you wrote down.
Look at post #57: (emphasis added)

No.... no..... no. Theres not equal amounts of it in every place. You know very well that thats not true. Its the rich people (especially the rich kids) that vote for more immigration because they have never even met a black person in their life. The plummer on the other hand doesnt vote for that because the african guy just might be after his job when he gets here.

I'll say this one more time and then i'll ignore every post about this after it.

Not all working class people are racists. Not all educated people are racists. There are more working class racists than there are educated racists but there are both.

Again, as I said previous, I am just responding to what you wrote and what that means, not what you wanted to say, because I can't know what you wanted and meant to say, only what you actually did say.

 

[BloodOmen]

I don't care tbh they can't be worse than bush was/is.

 

[Zede]

Icey wins this one tbh

 

[Gorbachioo]

:Again, as I said previous, I am just responding to what you wrote and what that means, not what you wanted to say, because I can't know what you wanted and meant to say, only what you actually did say.

Are you fucking serious? If you actually read what i said you will notice that i very clearly say that the competing part is the problem here. When i used the word "meet" the point was that they have never had to give up anything because of immigration and therefore have less reason to be racist. (not that thats a good reason anyway but for some reason many peoples mind works like that). It was too obvious to be a mistake.


For fucks sake just admit that you're wrong sometimes. Debating with you is goddamn useless because you're not capapable of admitting that you're wrong.

And zede: Dont you need to be harrassing jews or something?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Are you fucking serious? If you actually read what i said you will notice that i very clearly say that the competing part is the problem here. When i used the word "meet" the point was that they have never had to give up anything because of immigration and therefore have less reason to be racist. (not that thats a good reason anyway but for some reason many peoples mind works like that). It was too obvious to be a mistake.

And again, that's where you're wrong if you assume that working class is more racist based on "they might loose jobs to immigrants".

You're assuming every racist is equally racist and hates same thing, BUT working class adds "loosing jobs" to that pile. As in, high class is racist, working class is racist +1. Not true.

And as such, completely ignoring the point that higher classes probably have more xenophobia among them while the working class interacts with other races.

For fucks sake just admit that you're wrong sometimes. Debating with you is goddamn useless because you're not capapable of admitting that you're wrong.

Pot and kettle tyyk yrr joooobs!!

 

[Gorbachioo]

Pot and kettle tyyk yrr joooobs!!

Well this is interesting.


Im quite sure you were the one who said that the finnish goverment should pay more attention to its unemployed instead of focusing all of its energy on immigrants.

TYYK YRR JOOOOOOOBS!!

(Already answered everything else you said, learn to read racist parasite)

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well this is interesting.


Im quite sure you were the one who said that the finnish goverment should pay more attention to its unemployed instead of focusing all of its energy on immigrants.

TYYK YRR JOOOOOOOBS!!

(Already answered everything else you said, learn to read racist parasite)

Oh now i'm racist...gods you can be pigheaded and honestly being a bit dumb at the moment.

You've not answered what i said, you've just repeated your "workers are more racist" thing over and over. Read my reply, understand and then answer IN A SAME FASHION you "demand" me to do.

And i NEVER said anything about "give unemployed moneyz instead of focusing on immigrants". Stop making sh*t up.

Also, it's interesting how you keep saying "you can't discuss!! wah!" when you're the one who ignores everything i say and just insult me over and over.

 

[old.Tohtori]

(Already answered everything else you said, learn to read racist parasite)

Oh now i get it! It's so clear.

Gorb is actually Merlin, moving back in time, since he already answered something that i said for the first time, even if it was the previous post to his claim about answering it

 

[Iceforge]

Are you fucking serious? If you actually read what i said you will notice that i very clearly say that the competing part is the problem here. When i used the word "meet" the point was that they have never had to give up anything because of immigration and therefore have less reason to be racist. (not that thats a good reason anyway but for some reason many peoples mind works like that). It was too obvious to be a mistake.


For fucks sake just admit that you're wrong sometimes. Debating with you is goddamn useless because you're not capapable of admitting that you're wrong.

And zede: Dont you need to be harrassing jews or something?

I am the one who wont admit when I am wrong?

Show me where I said something that was wrong.

I pointed out 2 things you said was which was wrong/lies, and now you are projecting that to me?

I have in other debates willfully bowed my head down and admitted being wrong, if that is the case, just take yesterday in the "Lunch at a vegan" thread, where I found out that the information/knowledge I had about CO2 production in plants was wrong, so, I admit I was wrong.

Childishly saying that it is pointless to debate with others when they point out that you just fired off a lie is not something that makes me feel that I have made a mistake, but rather confirms that I was indeed right.

I will say that you next sentence after you said meet was about job-positions and not about meeting people of another origin that European, but that doesn't change the meaning of your first sentence.

You said that you had NEVER said that it was about meeting black people, which you indeed had, thats the point. You lied, I pointed it out, and now you are whining that I am the stubborn one?

 

[Iceforge]

Oh now i'm racist...gods you can be pigheaded and honestly being a bit dumb at the moment.

You've not answered what i said, you've just repeated your "workers are more racist" thing over and over. Read my reply, understand and then answer IN A SAME FASHION you "demand" me to do.

And i NEVER said anything about "give unemployed moneyz instead of focusing on immigrants". Stop making sh*t up.

Also, it's interesting how you keep saying "you can't discuss!! wah!" when you're the one who ignores everything i say and just insult me over and over.

Does depend on the definition of "workers". If one is speaking manual labour vs. office/paper work/teachers then you do find more racism in the manual labour group than in the last.

At least that is the case in Denmark and all studies has shown that.

 

[Zede]

Zionists Gorba, Zionists !

For old' & me to actually be on the same side...what your saying really must be the biggest crok of shit ever to grace these pages.

gratz on being special.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Does depend on the definition of "workers". If one is speaking manual labour vs. office/paper work/teachers then you do find more racism in the manual labour group than in the last.

At least that is the case in Denmark and all studies has shown that.

Aye, if you think of "worker" as a dockworker etc, ofcourse. Those guys are brutal

But i think Gorb meant that a highly educated, highly paid guy(teachers are workers in my mind) is less racist then the sh*tshoveler down the street based solely on the fact they may dislike immigrants taking their jobs.

And, forgetting the whole xenophobia thing that often is the case in rich, white, highclass/edu communities.