Bittorrent under attack

[tris-]

if the firms were not so money hungry then why would probably make more money by lowering the prices.

cd singles are around £4 now. if they were £2 i would probably buy more. at the moment i buy none. now there is a lot of deals on DVDs, i buy loads of em, i probably have nearly 300 DVDs now.

the issue with rental shops is a bit dodgy. the main way these files get on the net is probably from people renting the stuff, copying it then publishing it.

you can rent a game for £3.50, copy it then you have it forever. then you can publish it.
same with DVDs. the same used to happen all the time with VHS, though im not sure on how much this is done these days.

also on the cinema thing - i pay £10 a month and i get to see as many films i want, as many times i want, when i want. it would cost £4 a time to get in. i go twice a week. so i would be paying £32, i actually pay £10.
plus its only 50p extra to goto the cinema than it is to rent. 50p is nothing, you cant even get a can of coke for that much now. the only thing rental does is help people pirate easier, by renting > copying > selling or share on the net.

imo ofc

 

[Ch3tan]

Actually cd singles are in general £2. or £1.99 to be exact. Its the special and extra track versions that rise in price to the £3.99 mark. Also singles in high demand tend to boost in price regardless of how many tracks are included, but in general the pricing is staying lower now.

 

[nath]

the issue with rental shops is a bit dodgy. the main way these files get on the net is probably from people renting the stuff, copying it then publishing it.

Actually the versions that appear on the net are usually a camera job (if the film is very recent), a dvd screener (disc they send to the bbfc etc.) that they've gotten hold of - usually people who work in the industry somewhere will leak it, or a retail dvd release - again people who work in the industry will get hold of it early and let it out.

I don't doubt people pirate rented stuff, but it'll almost always be fore personal use, copies of whatever you're looking for will always be out on the net way before they're available to rent. Sometimes retail DVD releases are out before/while the film is actually out in the cinema in the UK.

 

[Driwen]

What is the stance of people here on DL'ing recorded TV shows btw?

I personally do it, because it takes atleast three years or more before that episode is aired here (netherlands) and it is rather hard to know before hand which episode they are actually airing. As they only tell you in the commercial that the serie is being aired not which season or episode, the site of the network self will prolly have the correct episode described just not which number/seaon it is and tv guides of other networks are often describing the wrong episode .

Also how illegal is it actually atm, as it is allowed to record stuff of the TV for personal use. Off course sharing it to million of people isnt personal anymore, but there is no profit in it for anyone, so I guess it depends on the countries definition of personal use(meaning that no profit is made from it/not used in a commercial way(like showing the serie in a bar) or just really only for yourself)?

 

[Skyler]

I think internet downloading for music has helped the industry more than anything.

Oh and another thing you might want to realise... regions... why did they introduce regions? So they can make more money. Most of the films I watch and I want to watch I cannot buy retail, anywhere. I have to download them as it's simply the only way I get to watch them.

Do you have any idea how annoying it is to be forced to wait 6months to get the same item that has been in America all that time. It's stupid and completely unfair on everyone, I don't really care whether it's bad to be downloading this stuff or not, if I don't download it I wont watch it anyway.

I don't go to the cinema cause VUE just took over our Warner Village and it's become the most shit experience ever in the history of cinemas.

As for your rental business Trem... those online rental stores are such good value that traditional rental stores I would not ever touch. I stopped renting videos years ago, and the only place I used then was blockbuster or variety video, both chain stores. The small business that were rental stores were never worth it. If I was going to rent again I'd do tesco's online thing or blockbusters online thing, best value for money and easiest to use.

As for the sale of pirate DVD's... this is one thing I don't like... with this you are giving people a product which resembles the original and thus they are far less likely to think "I would rather own the original DVD". I go through town and see many people handing out covers of films that aren't even in the cinemas here yet and offering them for £5. Ohh and what does that bring me back to... the fact that by the time films reach cinemas here they have been out on DVD in America for a while... this means I'm not surprised that there is so much damn piracy here. How can your rental business compete by getting things 'early' if America had it 6months before and you can buy/download a copy way before your store ever gets it.

If you eliminate this stupid regional delay on films you'd see a cut in piracy already. When faced between the choice of a crappy screener and cinema most would choose the cinema. When faced with a nicely packaged dvdrip of a film with quality close to a dvd or the cinema, at the same price... many would be tempted.

Even if it's lower quality, people will favour the product they can take home.

I say cut down on those who are packaging products and reselling them to make a profit, they hurt the industry more than anything. They are the ones who deal with the mainstream and sell thousands of these things. I'm sure 95% of the country wouldn't know much about downloading films online, but almost all the country has the oppertunity to buy films from car boot sales or in the street.

If you stop those making a profit from these things the problem becomes far less. If you bring our release dates in line with America's and you cut things down even more. Of course they neglect to mention that they are making uber amounts of money still, just not quite as much as they were making a few years ago.

I remember an interview on 'hard talk' on bbc news 24 some months ago about film piracy. It was the chairman of the academy who do the academy awards (duh). He said that people downloading films are hurting the profits of production studios and that if people didn't stop, crew and some of the general staff from films will be losing their jobs permanently over this... and other stupid things to that effect... what a complete tard..

I know, we're gonna break even on this film and need a profit, do we either cut 100 of the crew members jobs saving us like a million dollars or do we just give the main arist a paycut of 1million out of his 10million deal to do the film... "I know lets just get rid of the crew, they only have families to feed and will miss the job and money far more than the artist who has everything and would still be paid 9million for doing a stupid film"

 

[Skyler]

What is the stance of people here on DL'ing recorded TV shows btw?

I personally do it, because it takes atleast three years or more before that episode is aired here (netherlands) and it is rather hard to know before hand which episode they are actually airing. As they only tell you in the commercial that the serie is being aired not which season or episode, the site of the network self will prolly have the correct episode described just not which number/seaon it is and tv guides of other networks are often describing the wrong episode .

Also how illegal is it actually atm, as it is allowed to record stuff of the TV for personal use. Off course sharing it to million of people isnt personal anymore, but there is no profit in it for anyone, so I guess it depends on the countries definition of personal use(meaning that no profit is made from it/not used in a commercial way(like showing the serie in a bar) or just really only for yourself)?

Ohhh tv shows, that's another point... again brings up my region delay type situation. I want to watch TV shows now, I do not want to pay sky a stupid amount of money to feed me with adverts and still get things far later than the yanks.

 

[Trem]

You make some very good points Skyler. Welcome back as well btw.

I totally agree with your points on regions, although they are getting closer nowadays. Stuff like LOTR, Day After Tomorrow, Troy etc have all been worldwide releases(iirc).

The thing is your small indi rental store may have region 1 dvds in for rent or for sale, your BB won't.

Early region 1 stuff does aid piracy, well, it aids quality pirate dvds being out here before its out on retail.

I truly don't think the average joe uses internet rental as much as it may seem. They certainly don't where my shop is situated.

I have proof piracy is affecting my business more than anything else. That proof is what should rent doesn't(Shrek 2, Finding Nemo), yet B movies rent(Spartacus, Highwayman) really well when they shouldn't, thats because they either haven't been pirated or people haven't heard of them when the pirates are handing out their lists.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

We've talked music and films, lemme throw games into the mix.

Of all the 3 forms of entertainment, it's games that suffer the most from piracy imo. The industry is incredibly unstable, and filled with ***** that cannot see this.

What is totally unbelievable is that nigh on every person I've met who works in the gaming industries pirates games CONSTANTLY. I mean downloading games DAILY, regardless of format or whether they'll even play it or think they may like it. And then these people would turn round and complain about the lack of job security and the constantly low pay packets. They've all seen how many hours and effort goes into making even the simplest of games. They all know the stress, pressure and money involved. They know that gaming keeps them in a job. And yet nigh on all the ***** don't ever pay for any games.

*RETARDED*

PS I'd rent, if rent prices were worthwhile. I love watching new films, but I hate watching shit quality (so I won't d/l), or paying a noticeable bit of pocket-weight for shite films. I understand prices only reflect what the suppliers set but it really is outrageous.

My personal stance on d/l'ing:
I do not download films. Ever. Waste of bandwidth for an .avi encoded by someone with their head underwater and their eyes glued on their penis.
Music. I download a fair bit of music. I have to, to find out about artists I like as nothing I listen to is open in the public domain. There are no radio stations that cater for my musical tastes, and most shops haven't heard of, let alone stock half the things I want to listen to. The only possible way of finding out about different artists like this is via the internet. If you want to check out a few seconds of an artist to have a rough idea of what their sound is like we should all purchase their goods? Bollocks. Of course none of this applies to most mainstream music, but anyone who requires anything a bit deeper just isn't provided with the information they need by current Media.
Games: I've downloaded a couple of PC games I knew I'd never buy/spend money on. I've played about 5 mins of each at most. Any game that I know will be played for more than 30 seconds is bought. I won't download console games either, waste of a DVD. :]




PS, after all that moaning about piracy - how many of use use pirated software on our PCs? Nigh on all of us, I'm willing to imagine. You don't hear any complaints about software piracy compared to that of media (films, music, games). Why is that?

 

[Falcon]

Just to correct some things:

If you stop those making a profit from these things the problem becomes far less. If you bring our release dates in line with America's and you cut things down even more. Of course they neglect to mention that they are making uber amounts of money still, just not quite as much as they were making a few years ago.

That's actually wrong beleive it or not Skyler, the amusing thing is the movie industry's profits are actually up from what they were a few years ago.

Also:

I totally agree with your points on regions, although they are getting closer nowadays. Stuff like LOTR, Day After Tomorrow, Troy etc have all been worldwide releases(iirc).

Both Troy and Day After Tommorrow had a good gap between UK and US releases, I think it was at least a month and if I'm not mistaken, might actually have been a good 2 - 3 months.

I have proof piracy is affecting my business more than anything else. That proof is what should rent doesn't(Shrek 2, Finding Nemo), yet B movies rent(Spartacus, Highwayman) really well when they shouldn't, thats because they either haven't been pirated or people haven't heard of them when the pirates are handing out their lists.

Again that really doesn't constitute proof at all, it's perfectly feasible that you could be losing business like this whether piracy did or didn't exist for the reasons I listed in my previous post - people are lazy and impatient nowadays, people would much rather order online if they can than make the trip to their closest video store and if they do go to the video store as said in this thread a few times already, they're more likely to go somewhere like Blockbuster. If piracy didn't even exist you certainly wouldn't be getting the business you used to, sure piracy might be a part of the problem but I'm pretty sure piracy isn't even half the problem for businesses like yours. Piracy does of course make a convenient scapegoat, just as weapons of mass destruction make a convenient scapegoat for carving a foreign country into a form you can much easier control and bring down your countries oil prices in fact

 

[Trem]

Did you try and buy a region 1 version of Troy on dvd Falcon?

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=12569

http://www.playusa.com/playusa.asp?page=title&r=R1&title=478123

Maybe, just maybe you could be wrong.

I'm done responding to you now for fear you will embarass me yet again. I don't think I could take it anymore.

Oh yeah, Day After Tomorrow was released 6 days earlier in the USA.

 

[Trem]

Actually that Troy release date on Region 1 has totally shocked me.

At least I have the excuse of not working in the USA for loads of money, if I did then maybe I would of known.

 

[Bob007]

Some stuff for you to mull over.

Epson r200 disc printer.
http://www.google.dealtime.co.uk/xGS-r200~NS-1~linkin_id-3052981

£75 in shop i work at.

DvD writer, Pioneer 108
http://www.bigpockets.co.uk/cat.php?search=DVD+Writers&session=5a4df4f1f985664fa3757e3301a0dff0

£55 in shop i work at.

100 Black single DvD case 14mm
http://www.bigpockets.co.uk/cat.php?search=DVD+Cases&session=5a4df4f1f985664fa3757e3301a0dff0

£10 in shop... You get the idea now am sure.

Printable blank media.
http://www.bigpockets.co.uk/cat.php?search=DVD-R+Printable&session=5a4df4f1f985664fa3757e3301a0dff0

£6 - £10 @ 25's £20-£34 @ 100's

120 gram matt coted paper, Choice of the piraters who shop at place were i work at.
No link

£4

£170 buy you the tools to reproduce/pirate/copy ANY dvd on the market. Software bundled with with writer makes you able to Produce a working DvD from almost any format .avi .mpg and so on.

Pop Copying DvD in any search engine and read a few of the links, you now have the knowledge to copy retail dvd's.

Total cost. £1.70 per "movie" to get started, Dropping to less then £1 after printer paid for.

Piracey hasn't changed, Its just got easier. When its easier, You get the masses doing ti. THEN it becomes a major problem.

To Trem. I work a pc shop that also sells comsumables. When shop was started, We sold mainly pc's and "Some" but not a lot of media, Due mainly to its high cost price. Now Media and hardware is so cheap, Consumables outsells pc hardware 10 fold or more. I would bet good money if the 2 shops (1 am at and yours) put there books togeather, Your decline(SP?) would almost coinside with our increase in media sales.

Sadly i can't see a way out for you, As what MIAA and music industry are doing now is way to late. Copying has become/becoming main stream and no one is realy to blame. PPL will and do download Movies/games/Music and will continue to do so up until the point they them selves become a target of the law.

P.S. my cd writer cost me £800 plus extra £250 for scsii card. I could buy a 1 to 10 dvd copy box for less now.

 

[Elenos]

If i don't have the money to buy a recently released DVD then it is fairly obvious that i can't/won't buy it. At this stage the potential shop owner has lost nothing from me not buying the DVD. Using my next to nothing high speed internet connection i find a download site where the same DVD is obtainable for free. I download the DVD. Still the shop owner has lost nothing as i was never going to be able to buy the DVD in the first place. I could save up for the DVD but by then the next one would be released that i wanted to buy and the cycle repeats.

I wholeheartedly agree with anyone that says they would rather buy a DVD than rent one. Also - newly released DVD's are sold at an expensive price. The consumer market by now is surely aware that things depriciate over time. Currently you can buy a decent DVD newly released for £13-19 depending where you shop etc. recently i took up GAME.net's offer of 5 DVD's for £30. This works out at £6 a DVD - half or or even a third of the price i would be paying. These DVD's are films i want to watch, they may have been out a while but i haven't seen them yet and they are good films.

In case you think i download everything, my last downloaded movie was The lord of the rings 3. Promptly after this i went to see it in the cinema twice and bought not only the single DVD but the huge boxed set as well.

I do download a fair bit of music. Not the recent stuff .. mainly classical music and theme music - to musicals or movie theme tunes - or sound effect type music as i do a lot of stage work. P2P netowrks and bit torrent are wonderful for this. I personally don't see downloading songs from the 80's and 90's as theft and i think it is a credit to a west end stage show that not only have i paid a fair sum of money to see the show but i enjoyed it so much that i had to get the music and learn the words - using whatever means necessary.

 

[Elenos]

I have proof piracy is affecting my business more than anything else. That proof is what should rent doesn't(Shrek 2, Finding Nemo), yet B movies rent(Spartacus, Highwayman) really well when they shouldn't, thats because they either haven't been pirated or people haven't heard of them when the pirates are handing out their lists.

To be perfectly honest mate Someone bought finding nemo for me as a gift and i watched it once. I am glad i downloaded Shrek 2 as i was told it was not as good as Shrek and it wasn't. What a waste of my money that would have been to buy or rent a film that i sat and felt appalled by. Sparticus is a classic film and a must have for anyone with a DVD collection. Most B movies are a giggle and laugh and more often than not don't pretend to be anything else. This said you are rarely dissapointed by a B movie as you expect it to be below average.

 

[Trem]

Oh aye I hated both films. Over rated piles of spunk.

Bob007, thanks for that mate. Really interesting. I do buy alot of stuff from your place(bigpockets). For the love of god tell them to use a different courier!!

Oh yeah.....WHY DID YOU SELL ALL THE ROBOSAPIENS SO QUICK!! Santa can't bring me one now.

 

[Trem]

T Sparticus is a classic film and a must have for anyone with a DVD collection.

No no no, not the original my good man. The remake.

http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=186129

 

[Tom]

I have Spartacus on DVD. 'tis an excellent film, and with restored footage as well (including the Olivier bit in the ol' bathtub).

 

[Bob007]

Bob007, thanks for that mate. Really interesting. I do buy alot of stuff from your place(bigpockets).

Bigpockets is our compition, But i never plug the place i work, Also they don't pay me enougth to do that

 

[Trem]

SVP then?

 

[nath]

SVP>BigPockets.

tbh.

 

[harebear]

R.I.P Suprnova.org

 

[Exoshear]

R.I.P Suprnova.org

Big shame.

 

[]SK[]

The end of BT? I mean I used to use http://www.torrentbits.org/ daily. Then Friday it stopped working. Next they got that Good Bye message. Fair enough ill try my next one, http://www.filelist.org/ this too is now doing the same with just DNS errors. Now my last option is Suprnova, now this too!

Agh, at least I dont need to buy no more blank DVD's I guess.

 

[Tom]

Torrent Spy, UKNova, Torrentreactor, there are loads of them out there, you think countries like Sweden etc give a flying fuck about US lawyers?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Torrentreactor is about the best one out there currently

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=596

That page has links to a couple more, although some are already dead. And it claims to be a top 10. With 9 entries.

 

[Skyler]

SVP rock.

 

[Sar]

Bah, I used Suprnova for stuff too - bah humbug!

:/

 

[milou]

h**p://www.bi-torrent.com/

 

[AcesHigh]

Still waiting for the builders & carpenters to get in touch.!!!!
Guess some of you now will have to start spending your hard enrned to be entertained!! S H A M E !!!

 

[nath]

Not me, I use newsgroups