best way to kill mid fotm group?

[Jaxal]

You all know the setup;

mend healer, pac healer, shaman, skald, savage, savage, savage, savage/zerker

or sometimes even 3 healers

Most people would say gank the shammy so savages have no end and healers cant sprint anymore
but vs good groups shammy usually gets rezzed or PR'd the second he dies
and a good shammy will have his group end buffed again fast
Also very hard to bring down shammy with all the healers + instants

I guess in an ideal situation u have 3 tanks assisting on the mend healer, because the shammy and other healers cant heal that well
so after a few instants the mend healer should go down and hopefully the other healers stay interupted

problem is, in the meanwhile the savages will have ripped through ur support

Does anyone have a more fail-proof tactic vs these groups?
(no, zerging doesnt count as a tactic )

magmatic/mcpain was working on this totally wacky tactic to kill these fotm groups, but we have yet to test it in rvr

would love to hear what u guys on BW use as tactic ( if any )

 

[old.Niljindil]

/release

 

[Ekydus]

1) Log Ekydus on.
2) Piss Ekydus off in /gu
3) Set pissed off Ekydus on them.
4) Leech the RPs.

- IMO.

 

[vintervargen]

if they have PR purge and instaheals/CC r... i would say none

 

[schinkaar]

ditch sorc and run with 2 mincers whould prolly be easiest, if they only have 2 healers 1 sos should be enuff to kill their support really. Altho youll prolly only win if you have everything up, the 2 most important things is to ignore the shammie and go for healer, if u see a ressed healer swap to him asap and always have the mincers interrupting the other 2 healers.

 

[rg-zorena]

Originally posted by schinkaar
ditch sorc and run with 2 mincers whould prolly be easiest, if they only have 2 healers 1 sos should be enuff to kill their support really. Altho youll prolly only win if you have everything up, the 2 most important things is to ignore the shammie and go for healer, if u see a ressed healer swap to him asap and always have the mincers interrupting the other 2 healers.

wtf ur in my guild nerf .. uhm btw all he said are lies!

 

[duact]

kill zorena at last coz he is tha noobhealur

 

[-Wedge-]

Hmm, 2 minstrels no sorc... Will have to give that a try... We've had 'some' success with 3 clerics 1 minstrel 3 assault tanks 1 paladin...

I mean the only times we beat JH tonight was after they had a fight where they suffered (heavy) casualties... So lop/pr's down, etc... Or where we 'added' on FC

Ok, we have a small RR difference, seeing JH's lowest RR was our highest RR, but still... The last fight we didnt even manage to kill 1 healer (even though we had 3 tanks on it)

 

[Whisperess]

Originally posted by Jaxal
Most people would say gank the shammy so savages have no end and healers cant sprint anymore

second reason is true, first one isn't.

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Ekydus
1) Log Ekydus on.
2) Piss Ekydus off in /gu
3) Set pissed off Ekydus on them.
4) Leech the RPs.

- IMO.

fuck off to the unfunny side of the street.

 

[schinkaar]

Well the main problem is that you are being outhealed, and if someone die we have all the time in the world to ress unless you interrupt the other 2 healers, and if possible the shammie aswell ofc . your clerics seem to be abit lazy with smiting aswell, and considering their low power cost for interrupts i really dont see a reason why.

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by katt!
fuck off to the unfunny side of the street.

Oh, then you can hold hands!

 

[Groborthir]

Someone said it earlier, ditch the sorcerer and run with 2 minstrels for 2 SoS.

In a SoS situation they can't kite (and that's what making these kinds of groups last long), so they will have to use their instas - and ideally their PR's - surviving a SoS attack. Use BoF too if necessary.

There's no point in bringing a sorcerer, because that's one less SoS, and from personal experience on mid, the sorc will die first off. He's in cloth too, so this will force your clerics to use up their instas keeping him alive - usually in vain.

Besides, these kind of groups are Det4 groups, so what wins tank group vs. tank group battles isn't CC anymore, it's what group is capable of launching most healing power.

Hibs have it tougher, because they don't have BoF and SoS. And their winning RA, BAoD, doesn't really work as more than a useful CC duration decrease method.

The times my group on mid (FotM group, if you insist ) have been killed by balanced hib groups have been against debuff/pbaoe groups. The key to winning here is to have GP and MoC up, and fire BAoD straight after GP to decrease re-mezzes etc. It's also imperative that you make sure healers get interrupted so they can't AoE lul, because that's the only thing that will stop MoC.

Basically all casters must stand in a cell, forcing the mid tanks to enter that cell if they want to kill anything, remember they have no ranged dmg output, unless they start throwing axes ...

Unless the healers are being allowed to AoE lul, the mids will have a damn hard time interrupting 3-4 PBAoE'rs, who in a worst case scenario can just MoC. The druids can basically just spam SH4tehwin.

 

[vintervargen]

group purge + slambot + pbaoe + moc + instaheals = wynz ?

 

[hotrat]

your clerics seem to be abit lazy with smiting aswell, and considering their low power cost for interrupts i really dont see a reason why.

so for a healer to interupt he has to press one button which is instant cast and on a 5 sec timer, for a cleric they have to stop all healing, target a healer and cast smite, yer right thats never gonna happen.

The main reason mid fotm groups are so hard is because they have so many insta interupts, each savage has a insta interupt on 30 sec timer, all 3 healers have a haste debuff on a 5 sec timer, skalds have dd's, snare and insta mezz and the shaman has his pbae disease. Not to mention insta single/ae stun/mezz on the pac healer.

Now lets look at alb, paladin shout, minstrel has dd's, stun and confuse, sorc has pet, cleric has pbae mezz on 5 min timer, compared to shamans superior pbae disease which is on an 8 sec timer

The problem is savages/zerkers will shake off any cc very fast and go right for the sorc, with bof and sos the sorc can survive. The problem comes when those ra's end, the clerics struggle to heal the cloth armored sorc and are often interupted by the healers/shaman anyway. In my groups I useually get rezzed right after dieing, but being a cloth caster I am very weak without my af shields, so now I need to cast them but often dont have time.

If the albs manage to kill the pac healer and he gets pr'd he only lacks buffs and is still quite hard to kill, heck he can even cast a few buffs on himself if he wanted.

The problem indeed lies in the sorc, 2 minstrel groups would be better vs the FOTM mid groups but I dont fancy their chances vs pbae or greater numbers (quite often I meet 2fg, and if they aint high RR we can usually win).

 

[hotrat]

As for hibs; domain/garbs group seems to do well vs JH I hear.

2 elds, 2 guarders, 2 druids, 1 warden, 1 bard.

The main reason this group does well is GP every 15 min, casters who would usually be mezzed the whole fight are suddenly practically immune to mezz.

The 2 pbae'rs protect each other while the guarders protect the ones being hit (usually the elds). Against the fotm alb group this set up is excellent as only 1 class (sorc) can ae interupt. Against JH I don't know how they win, not only can the healers all spam ae amnesia but the shaman can cast ae disease/root on the hib pbae cell.

Well I guess 3 power relics help but its still impressive, the ideal alb group vs this hib group would definately need a couple of fire wizzies, preferably with VP ready

Thusly comes the problem, vs mids you don't want any cloth, minstrels provide enough cc to mezz the support while clerics rely on bof and sos to keep themselves alive. Vs hibs you would ideally take a spirit/body caba, not only does a caba bring ae disease but also a nice body debuff which he and the sorc can use to quickly kill the elds from range.

Problem is though if you get jumped the fewer cloth wearers and the more determination tanks you have the better.

 

[parzi]

well for albs, sadly alb needs ra's to beat a good midgrp.
2 mincer is what i also said some weeks ago, let us know how it worked if you try it out

hibs yeh 2guard2pbae etc grp seems to do well, especially if healers are mezzed or at least interupted by pets or whatever just when the tanks go into the pbae box they die pretty fast while slammed +tanks whacking on them+2*pbae.

pr'ed healer can do the job well, but unbuffed savages are not very scary tbh

what also worked sometimes when i played in a hib castergrp was the warden ra, disease and some kiting with that snare-pet hehe

 

[Danya]

Never tried 2 mincers, but 3 mercs, arms, pala, 2 clerics, 1 mincer works well - no cloth, lots of people with det for getting out of insta mez, loads of damage (all mercs thrust and thrust poler rips through mid support).

 

[Rollie]

albs imho have to hope all there RA's are up and the middy ones are down cause tbh when it come to forming good rvr groups hibby/middy are much better off imho, less classes needed to cover all the neccessary stuff leaving more room for healing/damage classes.

Hibs can do very well vs FoTM groups, we have run with 3 savages/3 healers/shammie/skald and lost to organised hib groups on around a 50/50 ratio. Druid pets+chanter pets on support is crucial imho.

BTW any hibs here comment on this group setup and if it would do well.

druid (full aoe/insta root spec+group insta heal)
druid (heal/buff/)
druid (heal/nurture)
bard
BM
BM
BM
BM

now i know hibby end regen is kinda poor so pots would probably be needed, but i was just thinking of this last night.

 

[vintervargen]

^ ok gank grp, but a good savage grp would prolly kill all support before fight is over :|

the insta attack speed debuff and insta pbaoe dis is kinda win buttons, very hard to outheal savages when mids got them..

 

[K0nah]

when/if u do kill a healer (preferably the pac healer) make sure u keep him down cos its one less PR they can use. same goes for the other healers, keep killing the same one/s as they get PR'd.

if u land mezz first, killing a savage or 3 asap while mincer/sorc watch for purgers can work well. the mezz wont last long on the savages anyway, but if shammy/healer/s are mezzed best to leave em that way imo. sure the savages will no doubt get pr'd but theyll be unbuffed.

the savage fotm grp is very like ur typical hib chanter grp, the whole setup is built to keep the dmg dealers alive (hibs: chanters/elds, mids: savages) if mezz sticks taking out the dmg dealers first leaves em with nothing but alot of rezzing to do...

 

[loxleyhood]

Zerg.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Rollie
BTW any hibs here comment on this group setup and if it would do well.

druid (full aoe/insta root spec+group insta heal)
druid (heal/buff/)
druid (heal/nurture)
bard
BM
BM
BM
BM

Would be nice if you have about 4 hours to wait at DL for such a group to form.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by hotrat
take a spirit/body caba, not only does a caba bring ae disease but also a nice body debuff which he and the sorc can use to quickly kill the elds from range

It works, ask Garbannoch.

 

[Jiggs]

i'd take a sorcerer tbh, just play normal setup 'cos theres no point gimping the group for the sake of one or two fights.

i don't find that many of mid savage groups are particularily tough, normally its just a case of popping SoS and BoF at the right moments..

while BoF is up the clerics need to be on the move stunning the mid support to keep them out of the game (not much healing to be done until BoF goes down..)

when you move up to talking about fighting <JH> then its different story i guess, you can discuss alot of stratergies but normally its just down to who is more awake and keeps their cool in the fight.

i tend to think of the fight as: 2clerics and 1sorcerer versus 3healers and 1shaman, tough but if you are better players you'll win this fight!

 

[Arnor]

kill shammy, mezz pr'ed shammy, do support. Savages will have perma-end anyways so :\

 

[ormagaa]

try this setup for hib ^^

Druid
Druid
Druid
Bard
Bard
BM
BM
BM/Hero

Why 2 bards you say, and skip damage output?
Quite easy, you will first have an advantage with CC.
Insta isnt too good i know, but still instamezzed healer w/o det, aint much to cheer about.
2xBard can provide, first when travelling, speed 6, (tell me if im wrong), 2 good interrupters with dd, insta lull, insta mezz and aemezz for interrupt.

Many people have laughed at me (ie Krane, herbal etc), but i STILL say, kill atleast one savage first. Its pathetic they quoted me in their sig when i adviced them.

If you can drop down one savage, you will decrease lot dmgoutput. healers dont often spare pr on savage, as you already know.

In my oppinion its worth dropping one bm for extra bard.

Now you/ppl say, fo then we will have to wait all day at DL for such group, but what do you think the other realms do?
Mids wait maybe 3 ports for their setup =~20-30min.
Albs bunch up, make sure all got speed and go together.

Kill healer? nah... drop the savages.
BM with PF, Hero with slam, assist 4tehwin

 

[old.mattshanes]

We had:

2 pole thrust armsmen
2 thrust mercs
1 minstrel
1 pala
2 clerics

In emain one time, that's 2x soldier's barricade too and 2 PF tanks, we never lost to a fotm savage group because everyone assisted good and PF went off often due to 2 PF tanks allowing the polers to follow in with big hits.

soldier's barricade+bof=xD

Also if pala stays back and guards sorc or a cleric it can really help.

But also if you have 3/4 high determination tanks with PF it helps a lot.We nearly all the time play with a sorc in group but we couldn't find one so was worth a try and it worked

 

[StormriderX]

Imo:
Shaman first - pb fart (ghey), root (ghey), group spec buffer (!!!). End isn't really that big a deal since healers can fire an end pot and savages have self end buff anyway.
Mend healers - they come after shaman, leave pac healur who cc'd your group for last. Oh and kill the pr'd healer again instead before finishing off healer that used pr so that the pr'd guy can do the same thing for his mate. I.e healer A gets killed and pr'd kill healer A again so he cannot pr healer B.
Pac healer
Skald
Then finish the tanks.

This is assuming that the savages haven't already wtfpwned your support in 1 round and busy beating the crap out of you

 

[VodkaFairy]

Don't forget the buffbots storm

Nature druid pet on mend healer, bm on shammy, lvl 7 always interrupting druid pet on pac healer

Hero guarding target of savage, mana elds casting ae snare / pb / dis / debuff while voidie debuffs their dmg type (all energy) for strong dmg.

Bard trying to prevent amnesia spam on pb.

Nature druid + regrowth druid + bm + guardbot + 2 x mana eld + 1 x void eld + bard.

- This works pretty good Mezz, root, dis and snare in 1 team + debuffed nukes that will hit for ~500 each.

Maybe even replace hero with champ, because a debuffs are good against a savage