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Silenzio
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- #31
2h paladin he said...*cough*
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Danamyr
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- #32
Semmed fair to me - he was 2 Hand, I was 2 Hand. He had chants, and I, well...didn't
Still kicked his ass though
I accept (before anyone gets on the high horse) that it might be different at higher specs, this was a 20-25 Lvl duel.
Anyway - someone answer the weapon question I posted above please...
K
Kagato.
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- #33
Originally posted by kirennia
a defensive armsman is veeeeeeery bad choice...they are severely outranked in every way by a paladin. It's like rolling a smite cleric who only smites instead of a caster. Really a a paladin is literally twice as useful as a defender.
Offensive armsman all the way. Worked out a nice template, 502hand, 50slash/thrust, 28 parry, 7 sheild. 7 sheild is essential so if you are being shot by an archer, you get /engage them and get to them before you drop down dead. parry, next patch is fixed. As a sword/board user, each point in parry is worth 0.5% extra chance so not really worth it BUT, as a 2hand user, you have a 1% extra chance to parry per level of it, as well as 5% base. Well worth spending at least 20 points in.
2hand outweighs pole user imo...poleusers outdamage 2handers if all you are going to do is slam the same button. 2hand however has a lot more variety, you even have a 6sec stun as second part of a chain somewhere in there which again, wouldnt be useful if you had a sheild
50thrust/slash brings up your minimum damage to a bearable level...the more in it you have, the less variance you will get. Yes it does make a difference when spec+extra goes above 50. Being able to consistantly do a lot of damage is better then the odd lucky strike
Copied from our guild boards, had same question asked there too....just my 2p
And to people who don't use /assist in groups.....without it, you are playing very badly.
Even has a 6 second stun as 2nd style in a chain, and thats better then pole which has a 9 second long duration stun on the 2nd style of a chain? No point wasting the stun immunity on an enemy with a 6 second stun when you can have a 9 second stun. Sorry but for dueling and one on one fights pole far out weighs two handed.
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Torvarg
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- #34
Originally posted by Danamyr
I don't actually - I beat a orange con Paladin in a duel recently - he was twisting like mad. He was Two Hand though
The chants are the paladin, I've never lost to a S+S armsman with my pally but then again he could have been twisting resistchants... :/
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Silenzio
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- #35
the point is...
paladin is a "TANK" =) is pure defense... but without the shield he lose a huge part ov the defense...
2h is slow... now he got less defence n is on a weeker damage table =)
with same buff same gear n no chant
a 2h paladin will allways deal less damage than a 2h arms
paladin is a "TANK" =) is pure defense... but without the shield he lose a huge part ov the defense...
2h is slow... now he got less defence n is on a weeker damage table =)
with same buff same gear n no chant
a 2h paladin will allways deal less damage than a 2h arms
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gwal
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- #36
if u want s/s u make a paladin
if u want to deal dmg u make a 2H or pole armsman (yeah yeah, friar and merc are good as well, but he doesnt want those)
stay off the shield crap as an armsman, pallys protect casters well, amrsmen kill enemies faster. making a s/s arms just means u´ll run ooe sprinting after a tank on ur caster and missing just a single slam or 2 - and u´ll be good and properly useless for the remainder of the fight.
excactely as jiggs say, get the assist rdy, and let others handle the pbt so u can 2 shot support classes.
and btw, armsmen dont beat s/s paladin in duels. 2H paladins are utterly crap in duels, and s/s paladins win simply cause of heal chant/end regen.
if u want to deal dmg u make a 2H or pole armsman (yeah yeah, friar and merc are good as well, but he doesnt want those)
stay off the shield crap as an armsman, pallys protect casters well, amrsmen kill enemies faster. making a s/s arms just means u´ll run ooe sprinting after a tank on ur caster and missing just a single slam or 2 - and u´ll be good and properly useless for the remainder of the fight.
excactely as jiggs say, get the assist rdy, and let others handle the pbt so u can 2 shot support classes.
and btw, armsmen dont beat s/s paladin in duels. 2H paladins are utterly crap in duels, and s/s paladins win simply cause of heal chant/end regen.
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Treniel-
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- #37
gunner = 2h = top arms in realm
calamore = s/s = 2nd arms in realm
ialkarn = full pole = 3rd arms in realm
(i think thats right cala and ialkarn might be swapped)
atm i'm hybrid but i'm considering going full pole or 2h..simply cus we have so many slammers in FC and not enough dmg dealers...and hybrid is no match for dmg vs 2h/full pole.
calamore = s/s = 2nd arms in realm
ialkarn = full pole = 3rd arms in realm
(i think thats right cala and ialkarn might be swapped)
atm i'm hybrid but i'm considering going full pole or 2h..simply cus we have so many slammers in FC and not enough dmg dealers...and hybrid is no match for dmg vs 2h/full pole.
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Danamyr
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- #38
To be fair to me, I never said they would! I clearly stated the Paladin I fought was Two Hand. I still would have expected him to put up more resistance, given he was a level higher, and had chants.
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Pin
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- #39
being level 20-25 I wouldn't think the quality of your equipment was great (either of you for that matter), so basing any comparisons purely on whether you won or lost this fight is a little silly.
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Chuffy
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- #40
Dont play a 50 pole arms unless youre good.
Dont play 50 shield unless you know how to play properly.
Dont play hybrid because its crap.
Play a paladin and leave end chant on, its easier.
Dont play 50 shield unless you know how to play properly.
Dont play hybrid because its crap.
Play a paladin and leave end chant on, its easier.
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Danamyr
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- #41
Not true - it was Vuwen's alt McHammer for a start
We both had PC & SC'd weapons made by him. The armour I wore was Mithril plate - don't know what he had on.
I accept it's not representative of a Lvl 50 style duel, but it was fun nonetheless
And this discussion is only silly if you all start taking it seriously! Chill
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yurka_polearm
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- #42
im tempted to go for 39thurst, 50 pole, 42 parry
got 50 thrust atm, but since with the +11 to thrust you get the same dmg bonus as someone who specced up to 50 in thrust, only difference is your minium dmg will be down by about 36 dmg or so.
got 50 thrust atm, but since with the +11 to thrust you get the same dmg bonus as someone who specced up to 50 in thrust, only difference is your minium dmg will be down by about 36 dmg or so.
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deffy
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- #43
The bone brusier chain rocks. The 2nd style has a stun so you just do that then the side chain, after that your enemy has probably hit you once and you've hit them 4 times assuming you don't miss meaning they have very little, if any, hp left. The rage>revenge chain in pole is nice, but you have to wait for your enemy to style you, if there out of end or can't actually do a style your buggered whereas 2h has the short stun on the 2nd in anytime chain and a long one on the side chain.
Watching an unbuffed 2H crush armsman killing a necro in 3 hits when BG3 was empty was a particular highlight for me
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gunner440
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- #44
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bracken_woodman
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- #45
Based on what assumptions?
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stupidshady
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- #46
means he sucks as hybrid ??
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yurka_polearm
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- #47
tbh i dont see whats wrong with the hybrid spec,
take the polearm option
39 slash,
42 shield
50 pole
Polearm:
With bonuses in slash you get the 50/50 bonus in dmg with polearm.
You get your max dmg with polearm 50+11 + Realm Ranks.
But your dmg variance is abit wider. Though the actual dmg difference is a small amount . But most of you who play polearm know you get huge dmg variances anyway.
Parry:
Normal pure polearm is 28 parry, which is 14% chance of parrying (hardly great)
With the hybrid spec you get 6 parry (i think)
Slash / Shield :
You can s/s and sit back on your shield when you run out of end. You also get slam which is great for breaking mezz with, so your casters can nail a target in rvr without any problem at all.
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Overall higher RR armsmen would benefit more, with the Moparrying and Mastery of Blocking.
You can full out pole or shield if you want.
When out of endurance you can go S/S and with tireless u can get some endurance back so you can go back to polearming again.
You can also break pbt and still have defence with your 1h , then switch to pole and do some dmg. Alot of buttons to press but if you perfect it, it should look be pretty decent.
take the polearm option
39 slash,
42 shield
50 pole
Polearm:
With bonuses in slash you get the 50/50 bonus in dmg with polearm.
You get your max dmg with polearm 50+11 + Realm Ranks.
But your dmg variance is abit wider. Though the actual dmg difference is a small amount . But most of you who play polearm know you get huge dmg variances anyway.
Parry:
Normal pure polearm is 28 parry, which is 14% chance of parrying (hardly great)
With the hybrid spec you get 6 parry (i think)
Slash / Shield :
You can s/s and sit back on your shield when you run out of end. You also get slam which is great for breaking mezz with, so your casters can nail a target in rvr without any problem at all.
---------
Overall higher RR armsmen would benefit more, with the Moparrying and Mastery of Blocking.
You can full out pole or shield if you want.
When out of endurance you can go S/S and with tireless u can get some endurance back so you can go back to polearming again.
You can also break pbt and still have defence with your 1h , then switch to pole and do some dmg. Alot of buttons to press but if you perfect it, it should look be pretty decent.
K
Kagato.
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- #48
Erm what ?
check your figures, 28 Spec does work out at 14% with the .5% per spec, BUT you automatically get a 5% base chance to parry, so its actually 19% chance to parry.
Now look at a typical 50 Armsman, who should have +11 from items or close, your looking at 39 parry, if RR5 thats another +4 so a total of 28+15 parry. Which gives you 26.5 % BASE chance to parry before your dex modifiers come into the equation not to mention your enemies weaponskill versus your weaponskill modifiers.
And of cause if your a pure polearm spec its doubtful there weaponskill will be higher then yours so your immediatly getting into bonuses. With 50 pole and 196 strength unbuffed, which isn't great as I have no aug strength, I have 1310 weaponskill unbuffed.
And of cause if your RR5 or even close your likely to be able to afford Mastery of Parrying for a further 3% per level to parry.
In total, 32.5 % BASE chance to parry before modifiers.
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yurka_polearm
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- #49
but is 14% parrying worth over 42 shield + MoB...
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Kagato.
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- #50
Read what I just said, it IS NOT 14% chance to parry, its 19% at the bare minimum
and if your using your pole then your not going to have your shield out anyway, what you going to do, switch back to your shield every time you think someones going to land a hit? Wont get far in a duel like that, and for the 'duels isn't rvr' crowd, well if your in a zerg its your support classes being attacked, not you, so you want to have your pole out for the killing anyway.
But back to the parry debate with the 50/50/28 spec your still going to be looking at 28+15 on a standard armsman, thats still 43 effective spec + MoP
Which is almost as good as 42+15+MoB that your quoting.
28 parry spec = 32.5% Chance to parry with the above arms
42 Shield spec = 39.5 % Chance to block assuming it has the same base chance of 5%
a whole 7 % differance, how uber.
That would be with the same +11 items +4 from RR arms with either MoB or MoP 2. and of cause before Dex modifiers etc.
please don't quote figures and facts unless you actually know them to be true.
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yurka_polearm
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- #51
i said 14, coz u get your base parry anyway specced in parry or not
but as i said in my other post, your gunna go polearm, then once out of end go to your s/s which will give you a decent amount of defense.
and as for the parry defense vs shield defense, parry doesnt have slam.
but as i said in my other post, your gunna go polearm, then once out of end go to your s/s which will give you a decent amount of defense.
and as for the parry defense vs shield defense, parry doesnt have slam.
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Ialkarn
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- #52
Don't listen those gimps,mostly of them are just trying to defend their currently spec (it's prolly the only one they ever tried and mostly never played a properly rvr group).
if you want an offensive armsman,the perfect one, proced like that:
You need autotrain as long is possible:
Go shield/crush till 40 then respec your crush line deleting it completely you ll be in troubles till lvl 44 (the last but one ),then you 'll have all the points you need to do the perfect template.
go 50 pole 44 thrust/slash ( I actually sugest you thrust,cause mids population is more big than the hib one)-low damage variance and max ws-
30 parry -50 at rr10 whit items and realm rank bonuses- (more than 50 is usless)
23 shield -6sec backstab stun and guard III-
Then don't spec in stupid passives like all noobs tanks of this realm doing;moblocking moparry forget them all;get determination IV and prevent flight (before ip:if you have to ip as tank mean you losing the battle aniway)
then get ip-purge and boost your hits -augment con III toughness II (in this order)augment dex mopain I-III.
then get the rest.
Try to think for the group not for you..(try to privilege group ras) your goal isn't show your noob friends how uber you are parrying apoc twice in a row, but try to interpret your role at the best.
Are you offensive? so you don't have to stay mezzed,you have to do the max damage possible.
Do you want to solo? do a stealther
Do you want to slam/be difensive? go 50 shield 50 1h or, better,roll a pali.
if you want an offensive armsman,the perfect one, proced like that:
You need autotrain as long is possible:
Go shield/crush till 40 then respec your crush line deleting it completely you ll be in troubles till lvl 44 (the last but one ),then you 'll have all the points you need to do the perfect template.
go 50 pole 44 thrust/slash ( I actually sugest you thrust,cause mids population is more big than the hib one)-low damage variance and max ws-
30 parry -50 at rr10 whit items and realm rank bonuses- (more than 50 is usless)
23 shield -6sec backstab stun and guard III-
Then don't spec in stupid passives like all noobs tanks of this realm doing;moblocking moparry forget them all;get determination IV and prevent flight (before ip:if you have to ip as tank mean you losing the battle aniway)
then get ip-purge and boost your hits -augment con III toughness II (in this order)augment dex mopain I-III.
then get the rest.
Try to think for the group not for you..(try to privilege group ras) your goal isn't show your noob friends how uber you are parrying apoc twice in a row, but try to interpret your role at the best.
Are you offensive? so you don't have to stay mezzed,you have to do the max damage possible.
Do you want to solo? do a stealther
Do you want to slam/be difensive? go 50 shield 50 1h or, better,roll a pali.
D
Danamyr
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- #53
Re: Re: Armsman Spec Advice...
I was going to let that slide, but I feel inclined to respond now, as your arrogance/ignorance is irritating me.
As I have already explained, I often compare my Armsman to my LW Champ on Hib Pryd. Both LW Heroes and LW Champs get a style called 'Frontal Assault' around Lvl 20 or so which is absolutely awesome. It's a Front Positional (as name suggests) and on a yellow con does half the mobs total hit points in one hit the level you get it. There is a Front Positional chain based off that style, and this is what the Armsman is missing in the Two Hand line.
We really have nothing to compare to it IMO - so please think your posts through before offending people with the use of emoticons like that. You really do not know everything!
And for the record, I never posted that the Bone Bruiser chain was useless - I stated IMO I thought it was crap. Considering it's the main Two Hand anytime, it's entirely unexciting or impressive, and I stand by my earlier comments.
Originally posted by gunner440
I was going to let that slide, but I feel inclined to respond now, as your arrogance/ignorance is irritating me.
As I have already explained, I often compare my Armsman to my LW Champ on Hib Pryd. Both LW Heroes and LW Champs get a style called 'Frontal Assault' around Lvl 20 or so which is absolutely awesome. It's a Front Positional (as name suggests) and on a yellow con does half the mobs total hit points in one hit the level you get it. There is a Front Positional chain based off that style, and this is what the Armsman is missing in the Two Hand line.
We really have nothing to compare to it IMO - so please think your posts through before offending people with the use of emoticons like that. You really do not know everything!
And for the record, I never posted that the Bone Bruiser chain was useless - I stated IMO I thought it was crap. Considering it's the main Two Hand anytime, it's entirely unexciting or impressive, and I stand by my earlier comments.
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stighelmer
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- #54
I do not know what spec the hybrid knockers in this thread are talking about. Assuming a 50pole/42shield/39style/6parry spec all of the arguments except Kagato's regarding parry is pure BS.
Pure pole +
More parry
A little bit less variance in damage output (smaller as u gain RR)
Hybrid +
Slam (caster protection, mezz breaker if no paly around)
Nice protection from several attackers when shield is out (and possibility to effeciently guard others)
To sum it all up. If you cannot be arsed to shift to s/s and now an then use slam to stop tanks coming at your casters then don't go hybrid. Go pure pole. If you fancy slam and like to be able to change roles in grp if needed (from offense to defence) go hybrid (50/39/42/6 ofc).
Once again, to state that either is gimped is just pure BS - it's a matter of preference and a rather subjective matter, it's not like we comparing s/s and 2h palas here
Nope. Same ws and damage draws from 100% strength when using pole (if u go hybrid ofc go slash cos thrust is str/dex)
k. :uhoh:
As stated, ws at RR5 will be same using a 50+15/39+15 spec compared to 50+15/50+15. Only drawback with 39 style is a very small difference in damage variance.
Pure pole +
More parry
A little bit less variance in damage output (smaller as u gain RR)
Hybrid +
Slam (caster protection, mezz breaker if no paly around)
Nice protection from several attackers when shield is out (and possibility to effeciently guard others)
To sum it all up. If you cannot be arsed to shift to s/s and now an then use slam to stop tanks coming at your casters then don't go hybrid. Go pure pole. If you fancy slam and like to be able to change roles in grp if needed (from offense to defence) go hybrid (50/39/42/6 ofc).
Once again, to state that either is gimped is just pure BS - it's a matter of preference and a rather subjective matter, it's not like we comparing s/s and 2h palas here
J
Jaxal
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- #55
in terms of full offensive, rushing in and taking down healers.....2h or pole ?
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gunner440
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- #56
thrust pole t.t
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stupidshady
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- #57
prob s/s if ya wanna do it alone and they got 6sec pbt.......try doing that with an 5.8s speed pole
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Danamyr
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- #58
I have read all of your comments and considered what I'd like to achieve ultimately.
I have decided to respec to Two Hand Thrust at the earliest opportunity. I think this will give me the best chance to play the way I like. It will appear to be more effective against certain Mid and Hib classes, whilst being faster than Thrust Pole, whilst allowing me to remain fully offensive.
The only real question now is which Two Hand Thrust weapon do I go for? Thrust weapons seem faster than Slash from the drops I have seen so far, so I'd imagine they must cause less damage accordingly. Is this correct?
I should just like to thank everyone that contributed to this thread - I find speccing a character correctly can be an exercise in avoiding the Gimp mines a lot of the time
I have decided to respec to Two Hand Thrust at the earliest opportunity. I think this will give me the best chance to play the way I like. It will appear to be more effective against certain Mid and Hib classes, whilst being faster than Thrust Pole, whilst allowing me to remain fully offensive.
The only real question now is which Two Hand Thrust weapon do I go for? Thrust weapons seem faster than Slash from the drops I have seen so far, so I'd imagine they must cause less damage accordingly. Is this correct?
I should just like to thank everyone that contributed to this thread - I find speccing a character correctly can be an exercise in avoiding the Gimp mines a lot of the time
S
stighelmer
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- #59
tbh, if I would go pure I would go thrust pole or slash pole depending on whether I wanna thrash mids more than hibs or not
think about pole some more before changing imo.
good luck on whatever j00 decide
think about pole some more before changing imo.
good luck on whatever j00 decide
D
Danamyr
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- #60
Originally posted by stighelmer
tbh, if I would go pure I would go thrust pole or slash pole depending on whether I wanna thrash mids more than hibs or not
think about pole some more before changing imo.
good luck on whatever j00 decide
I will mate - thanks