Confused Are religious people disabled?

[rynnor]

That they need the same sort of protection as the Disability act gives the disabled for their own personal lifechoice?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17174860

Edit: If they are then should the state be trying to cure them? I think electric shock therapy might work

 

[Raven]

This should be good.

/puts feet up.

 

[caLLous]

Pass the popcorn, Raven.

 

[Scouse]

I think yes. All forms of belief are a disability. Humans are predisposed to this disability.

As I'd like to see religion die I also don't think I really want christianity to be protected by law. However, I'm under no illusions that they're correct - the state is currently victimising them in favour of corporate and political interests. Makes me wonder about this:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

They've come for christianity. Intellectually, I'd like to see it die. (The trade unions are already dead). Protestors and our right to protest are under attack. Freedom of speech and thought is under attack IMO.

I think human nature is predisposed to a liking for facism.

Soon, all we'll be able to do is buy stuff, work for very low wages and act in a way that mirrors the majority of socially acceptable norms.

I'm kinda conflicted

 

[Embattle]

Mine field incoming.

 

[Wij]

They want the right to break the law by discriminating against anyone they choose? Otherwise it's discrimination against them?

WHAT

THE

FUCK

??

 

[throdgrain]

They want the right to break the law by discriminating against anyone they choose? Otherwise it's discrimination against them?

WHAT

THE

FUCK

??

Fucking lol

 

[Scouse]

They want the right to break the law by discriminating against anyone they choose? Otherwise it's discrimination against them?

Yup. I agree.

But they're still under attack

Edit: The worry for me (for a long time actually) has been this "Localism Act" - giving local councils the power to make their own laws. Daaaaangerous.

 

[throdgrain]

Why do you think that is dangerous? The last thing we want is centralised government, thats a terrible thing, just look at the EU.

 

[Wij]

Do you know any councillors throws ?


/edit: auto-correct of throd preserved for puzzlement.

 

[rynnor]

It would be a nightmare for employers like the supermarkets if they have to give all their christian staff sundays off - its surely going to render them undesirable in such workplaces?

 

[Scouse]

Why do you think that is dangerous? The last thing we want is centralised government, thats a terrible thing, just look at the EU.

Laws made at the local level will be of really poor quality. That council that wanted prayers at the meeting the other week? Done. They'll pass a law to make it so.

I also agree that centralised government has massive drawbacks too, tho

 

[Wij]

It is disgusting discrimination now I think about it more though. Murder laws should not trump my firm belief in Deuteronomy. If my son is disobedient then I'm gonna stone him to death. No atheist faggot is gonna oppress me.

 

[rynnor]

We should be able to kill the unbeliever and then take his wife as our own as the good book says!

 

[throdgrain]

Laws made at the local level will be of really poor quality. That council that wanted prayers at the meeting the other week? Done. They'll pass a law to make it so.

I also agree that centralised government has massive drawbacks too, tho

If they want prayers at thier meeting, why not, if they all agree to it. It dont really matter. I think centralised government has a lot bigger problems than that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

"The report, by a cross-party parliamentary group of Christians, says "reasonable accommodation" should be made for Christians.", stopped caring right about there. Christian who only thinks of christians can go f*ck self them.

 

[Wij]

Given that a certain council thinks it has a budget of over 300 billion I would be worried about giving them a general power of competence

 

[Scouse]

I think centralised government has a lot bigger problems than that.

I agree.

However, it's only one example that I chose. But handily, you've provided the means to show you why it does matter and is a big problem:

If they want prayers at thier meeting, why not, if they all agree to it. It dont really matter.

1) "If they all agree": They don't all agree. Majority rule, remember? The christians outnumbered the atheists and then held prayers, overtly disadvantaging the atheists - and the christian councillor came out and said that they would be disadvantaged for showing them "disrespect" by not taking part.

2) "It dont really matter": It does, to some. Enough for it to get to court. People don't work for councils because of this (watch vid). Councils should be secular - disadvantaging nobody.


Letting local councils make their own laws gives power to all the little hitlers and christian do-gooder busybodies to make local laws that will severely marginalise the lives of those who live in an "unorthodox" manner. And "unorthodox" will simply become what the locals don't like.

Minorities will be severely put upon by local lawmakers whereas with central lawmaking they're just not enough of a "problem" to warrant changes to the laws.

Majority rule is cruel to minorities - and local majority rule will up the facist anti, I'm sad to say

 

[Wij]

Throds old sig used to reflect the difference between democracy and liberty. Has he changed ?

 

[DaGaffer]

Last week Celestina Mba, a 57-year-old Christian, lost an employment tribunal case after being refused permission by Merton Council to take every Sunday off work.

Its only discrimination if Muslims and Jews are allowed to have Saturday off. As the article doesn't make this clear its all a bit pointless.

My 2c, the only protections one should have from discrimination are features you have no choice about; race, age, sex, disability. That's it. Religion is a choice and not deserving of protection any more than membership of a political party or the Tufty Club.

 

[old.user4556]

Sex is a choice too, usually "no" when I ask the missus.

 

[Wij]

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=98&invol=145

"Can a man excuse his practices to the contrary because of his religious belief? [98 U.S. 145, 167] To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself. Government could exist only in name under such circumstances."

 

[Scouse]

Sex is a choice too, usually "no" when I ask the missus.

What you asking her for when rape is a choice too?

 

[Wij]

What you asking her for when rape is a choice too?

Only if she's a virgin I'm afraid. http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/rape/dt22_28a.html

 

[MYstIC G]

1) "If they all agree": They don't all agree. Majority rule, remember? The christians outnumbered the atheists and then held prayers, overtly disadvantaging the atheists - and the christian councillor came out and said that they would be disadvantaged for showing them "disrespect" by not taking part.

If everyone had to agree on everything every time nothing would ever happen.

I agree with Gaffer anyway, personal choices should not be granted protections.

 

[Scouse]

If everyone had to agree on everything every time nothing would ever happen.

I agree with Gaffer anyway, personal choices should not be granted protections.

Don't disagree with any of that Meg.

However, it doesn't make the truism (that majority rule is cruel to minorities) any less true - it supports it

 

[old.Tohtori]

Like Gaff said, only protection to things you have no control over. Sex included, it's a choice to use protection and forcing otherwise is taking away manly freedoms

 

[Job]

Giving concessions to religious groups has nothing to do with morality, it is simply power and the leeway you are given is a direct relationship with membership and fanaticism.
If Christians organised themselves and started suicide bombing then we'd see days off on Sunday and no fucker better ask any questions.
It's not rocket science, this is the fundamental position of religion since the caveman.

 

[TdC]

I thought church and state were supposed to be separate? Or did I just imagine that? As to faffing about with prayers, religious days off and stuff in the workplace I personally do not particularly mind, but tbh if your contract states you must work on a day that your religion states you may not and there is no agreement to be made to get around this then one can always go work somewhere else, no? I mean, you're signing an agreement to do something. If you can't do it for whatever reason, then don't sign it.

 

[Tom]

I thought church and state were supposed to be separate? Or did I just imagine that?

Yes. Our head of state is also head of the Church of England. Our House of Lords contains CofE bishops. Prayer at school assembly is (IIRC) enforceable by law.