Are mids on god mode with *just* right setup?

[Vodor]

Originally posted by Amadon
it's all your fault you know?

I also blaim Lethel

Poon

 

[Tootz]

Mid CC class gets to wear chain, has con as their secondary stat, and you can choose to be a race with 80 con from the outset. Not to mention insta stuns and mezzes to give them that head start. Oh and also a couple of insta heals to use when things get a bit hairy.

Alb CC class wears cloth armour, gets no addition to con during his career, and, before the inconnu came about, comes with 45 con to start off with (or 50 if you prefered to play with a crap hood over your head).

Think I know which one would last the longest during a fight.

 

[tildson]

Narrow-minded albs on excalibur, when will you ever realise that you suck.

Not often do we agree with eachother Fadeh, but here i fully support you.

Please, show me some retard flaming, especially from you Aussie.

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Mid has a huge advantage vs alb groups, probably on par with hib groups though ...

The only way you can lose vs a fotm mid setup is when they fuck up, or are played by n00bs... If they dont fuck up, and play with 'skills' (or brains ) then for Albs its nearly impossible to beat... (not impossible, but damned fuck hard)

Damage output is higher on mids, healing power is higher on mids, cc is better on mids (chain vs cloth) and utility of a mid group is generally higher...

So sure its possible to win, just dont expect to win as much against 'fotm' mid setups as 'fotm' mid setups win from 'fotm' alb setups...

Definitly not with the stupid relics, nerf being killed with bof active by savages...

are you taking the piss? ra's play a huge part in this game and everyone knows it, 2x bof, sos etc etc all add up, add dirty tricks on top of that and an alb grp is next to unkillable for a hib tank grp, an alb grp has a much better chance vs mid fotm grps than a hib grp does, we can output a bit of damage with 4 bm's but we have no way of soaking up/avoiding the insane dmg from savages. Albs on ther other hand do, spec af, etc etc they all add up.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by ab_fluid
are you taking the piss? ra's play a huge part in this game and everyone knows it, 2x bof, sos etc etc all add up, add dirty tricks on top of that and an alb grp is next to unkillable for a hib tank grp, an alb grp has a much better chance vs mid fotm grps than a hib grp does, we can output a bit of damage with 4 bm's but we have no way of soaking up/avoiding the insane dmg from savages. Albs on ther other hand do, spec af, etc etc they all add up.

Well hibby caster groups are pretty much best in the game, it's only fair your tank groups are the worst (atleast by those reasons)

 

[-Wedge-]

Wtf are you talking about, have you ever seen how often BaF owned groups like BF / FC / and our tank group (although it wasnt as good as bf / fc)... That was at RR3-5 !

Sos is a bitch thats true (for tank teams), but it lasts 30s and only available once every 30 mins...

BoF only delayed the eventual outcome... And tbh, I've seen BaF kill clerics with BoF active... (the other cleric just couldnt keep up)

The damage output of 3-4 BM's (3 only to add more utility or slam to your group) compared to 2-3 mercs compared with healing power of 2 'real' healers and 2 'backup' healers is just plain silly and is MUCH higher then the alb-equivelent... (or even 3 real healers, you can easely dump the warden for another druid)

And I heard BaF killed both NP and JH (never seen, so dont know) on regular occasions... (or at least put up a hell of a fight for such low rr)

I can only imagine how well they would do at rr7-9....

And its funny, BaF doesnt need ra's to beat the fotm alb setup, yet for the alb group to win they NEED bof and sos ? and thats balance?

 

[gwal]

Originally posted by Kallio
Are mids unkillable and insanely overpowered if they just have a fotm setup?

you know what that means, 2-3 savas, maybe one zerk, 3 healers etc.

nothing is unkillable, nothing is invincible.. just requires better play/another setup/certain ra´s

 

[old.Buffer]

Originally posted by Tootz
Mid CC class gets to wear chain, has con as their secondary stat, and you can choose to be a race with 80 con from the outset. Not to mention insta stuns and mezzes to give them that head start. Oh and also a couple of insta heals to use when things get a bit hairy.

Think I know which one would last the longest during a fight.

Bullshit
Do u know how long a healer lasts against a mid tank/hybrid in duel?
In this case skald v healer, skald uses no styles or shouts, just pure melee, healer can use what spells they see fit. Healer buffed, skald has no buffs. Healer gets to die in the end.

Now if skald uses shouts/styles healer would die a lot quicker, and this is against an experineced pac healer. In fact during combat I as skald put away my weapon( ie went non combat) to allow the healer to help/heal themself

So dont give me crap about healers being overpowered. They have no weapon/shield skill, the majority of thier spells are castable spells, sure they got a few instas, but once a tank is on them them they are in trouble

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by old.Buffer
So dont give me crap about healers being overpowered.

As a basic class they aren't. Its just when you throw in all the other factors and have the 3 healer/ savage/shammy set up that it starts to get silly. Which was the question asked in the original post...

 

[froler-mid]

welll imo, PE is the hardest 1½ fg around. :kiss2:

 

[old.Buffer]

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
As a basic class they aren't. Its just when you throw in all the other factors and have the 3 healer/ savage/shammy set up that it starts to get silly. Which was the question asked in the original post...

I take your point, but i will say

The two classes i see on bw that people moan about (from mid) are healers and savages
I just wanted to dispel the myth about healers

 

[old.Filip]

I truely belive that when a rr 3 savage 2 shot my fine new little theurg it is becuase he is more skilled !! more handsom !! more clever than me !!!

 

[-Wedge-]

Originally posted by old.Buffer
I take your point, but i will say

The two classes i see on bw that people moan about (from mid) are healers and savages
I just wanted to dispel the myth about healers

I can dispel the myth about savages then too, cause an unbuffed savage not in a group is an easy target for most classes out there too... Its just a tad different in gank-type form now isnt it?

 

[old.Buffer]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
I can dispel the myth about savages then too, cause an unbuffed savage not in a group is an easy target for most classes out there too... Its just a tad different in gank-type form now isnt it?

Thats why I said I take your point

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Wtf are you talking about, have you ever seen how often BaF owned groups like BF / FC / and our tank group (although it wasnt as good as bf / fc)... That was at RR3-5 !

Sos is a bitch thats true (for tank teams), but it lasts 30s and only available once every 30 mins...

BoF only delayed the eventual outcome... And tbh, I've seen BaF kill clerics with BoF active... (the other cleric just couldnt keep up)

The damage output of 3-4 BM's (3 only to add more utility or slam to your group) compared to 2-3 mercs compared with healing power of 2 'real' healers and 2 'backup' healers is just plain silly and is MUCH higher then the alb-equivelent... (or even 3 real healers, you can easely dump the warden for another druid)

And I heard BaF killed both NP and JH (never seen, so dont know) on regular occasions... (or at least put up a hell of a fight for such low rr)

I can only imagine how well they would do at rr7-9....

And its funny, BaF doesnt need ra's to beat the fotm alb setup, yet for the alb group to win they NEED bof and sos ? and thats balance?

FYI, tanks have there "needed" ra's by rr5 which is not a lot of /played, you don't need rr7+ to pwn with tanks. Yes BAF killed NP/JH, so have our tank grps, baf does need ra's for that, GP makes a huge difference in regards to mezzed support etc. The other thing i find hugely flawed with what ur saying is that you totally negate the paladin and mincer in ur grp, pally provides guard, dmg add etc, mincer got dd's, ablative, insta stun, they all add up. Both pallies and mincers can do fair damage, the mincer can also mezz. How you come to the conclusion a hib tank grp is better than an alb 1 is beyond me

 

[old.mattshanes]

If mids run:
4 healers 1 shaman 3 savages or 3 healers 1 warrior 1 shaman 3 savages.

Played by very good players, the above groups should NEVER lose to a fg, i haven't met either yet thank god, but the usual savage group certainly isn't unkillable, yet they do have the advantages yes and when albs have no bof+sos up it's free rps for the mids if they are good.(due to not having a det GUARD tank in the perfect alb groups you can have a tough time vs savages, unless of course you have 2 mercs+s/s arms which makes your dmg lower)

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

Originally posted by old.Buffer
Bullshit
Do u know how long a healer lasts against a mid tank/hybrid in duel?
In this case skald v healer, skald uses no styles or shouts, just pure melee, healer can use what spells they see fit. Healer buffed, skald has no buffs. Healer gets to die in the end.

Now if skald uses shouts/styles healer would die a lot quicker, and this is against an experineced pac healer. In fact during combat I as skald put away my weapon( ie went non combat) to allow the healer to help/heal themself

So dont give me crap about healers being overpowered. They have no weapon/shield skill, the majority of thier spells are castable spells, sure they got a few instas, but once a tank is on them them they are in trouble

..... how meny healers are in a normal assist train ? are they sopossed to kill anyting ?

they can run... sprint... what ever...they have perma end even when the damm shaman is mezzed it is a buff they jsut ahve to be sure to be in range unlike alb/hib they need to demezz the pally/bard to get end...


and who cares if a healer have 100 ws or 1000000 ws except the healers who solo.... ?

 

[old.Lethul]

Originally posted by -Freezingwiz-
..... how meny healers are in a normal assist train ? are they sopossed to kill anyting ?

they can run... sprint... what ever...they have perma end even when the damm shaman is mezzed it is a buff they jsut ahve to be sure to be in range unlike alb/hib they need to demezz the pally/bard to get end...


and who cares if a healer have 100 ws or 1000000 ws except the healers who solo.... ?

pl me tomorrow

 

[-Wedge-]

Ok, just for you lets compare :

Typical Albion FOTM Merc-Gank group :
1 Minstrel
2 Clerics
1 Sorcerer
3 Mercs
1 Paladin

Typical Hibernia FOTM BM-Gank group :
1 Bard
3 Druids (at least 1 nurture spec)
(or 2 druids and 1 warden, although 6s pbt doesnt do much in the assist train)
4 BM's
(or 3 and 1 hero for slam)

Without RA's, the hib group wins hands down... With SoS and BoF the hib group will struggle, but without SoS? Your telling me while bof is active (not sos), the hib-support cant stay away from the 3 mercs and the paladin? Your telling me you cant kill the sorc ? (cause baf didnt really have a problem with that even with bof active and 2 clerics chain healing)

Your telling me while DH can keep CLOTH casters alive vs savages, you cant keep a druid with more hp alive against 3 mercs + a paladin while your tanks go for their support (or even after bof ended, their tanks) ?

Now personally I find that hard to believe... Everything in the hib group has more hp then the sorc, the hib version has 3 pets, hey look at that, the alb version has 3 support that need to be kept busy...

So with pets on support, sos down (as they beat you the last run with sos, so its down now), you cant beat that alb group because they 'bof'...

Yet we managed to kill VGN tonight with our caster team when they used BAoD ?

You have to be kidding me... Heck if its damage output or utility your missing you can even drop a druid for something 'usefull'...

 

[old.Buffer]

Originally posted by -Freezingwiz-
..... how meny healers are in a normal assist train ? are they sopossed to kill anyting ?

they can run... sprint... what ever...they have perma end even when the damm shaman is mezzed it is a buff they jsut ahve to be sure to be in range unlike alb/hib they need to demezz the pally/bard to get end...


and who cares if a healer have 100 ws or 1000000 ws except the healers who solo.... ?

Yeah sorry forgot Healers have Insta Immune to all Melee attacks and Spells on a 3s timer
Do healers who solo have ws? I didnt know that. I live and learn.

 

[Vodor]

Bulle just knew how to use what group tools they had well, thats why they were always such a good fight.

Poon

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Ok, just for you lets compare :

Typical Albion FOTM Merc-Gank group :
1 Minstrel
2 Clerics
1 Sorcerer
3 Mercs
1 Paladin

Typical Hibernia FOTM BM-Gank group :
1 Bard
3 Druids (at least 1 nurture spec)
(or 2 druids and 1 warden, although 6s pbt doesnt do much in the assist train)
4 BM's
(or 3 and 1 hero for slam)

Tank grps i run in are bard, bm, bm, bm, bm/hero, druid, druid, warden. 6sec pbt doesn't do a huge deal, but the resists are good against casted stun, mezz etc.

Without RA's, the hib group wins hands down... With SoS and BoF the hib group will struggle, but without SoS? Your telling me while bof is active (not sos), the hib-support cant stay away from the 3 mercs and the paladin? Your telling me you cant kill the sorc ? (cause baf didnt really have a problem with that even with bof active and 2 clerics chain healing)

this is just stupid imo, if our druids, which fyi as soon as the bard goes end, have no speed at all, are meant to keep away from a 3merc assist train who still have sorc speed when mincer goes weapon, then how is it that a cleric or a sorc ever gets hit at all by a hib tank? During bof a sorc ofc is killable, but 4 bm's will take as long to kill a sorc as 3 mercs to kill a druid, possibly longer but i think about the same tbh.

Your telling me while DH can keep CLOTH casters alive vs savages, you cant keep a druid with more hp alive against 3 mercs + a paladin while your tanks go for their support (or even after bof ended, their tanks) ?

We are comparing tank grps here not mage grps, the play is totally different, you say how easy a sorc drops during BOF, yet it is easy for DH to keep a standard AF/abs mage alive against savages? which we all know hit harder than mercs/bm's anyway, thats totally contradictory.

Now personally I find that hard to believe... Everything in the hib group has more hp then the sorc, the hib version has 3 pets, hey look at that, the alb version has 3 support that need to be kept busy...

i play in grps with 2 pets, 1 of which is grey, more often that not both are, now i have also played mid and killed these pets when they are buffed in 2-3 swings of a 1h hammer, alb grp has 1 pet, or in the case of PE's rvr grps lots of pets (theurg instead of merc but i won't go into that) In the setup we were talkign about originally tho, i will give u that yes, hibs have 1 extra pet in my grps, but its not like u can't just tickle it and it dies.

So with pets on support, sos down (as they beat you the last run with sos, so its down now), you cant beat that alb group because they 'bof'...

Yet we managed to kill VGN tonight with our caster team when they used BAoD ?

You have to be kidding me... Heck if its damage output or utility your missing you can even drop a druid for something 'usefull'... [/B]

i don't really understand this shit tbh, looks like sarcastic bollocks to me, so i won't even justify it with any kind of explaination.

 

[Divinia]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Mid has a huge advantage vs alb groups, probably on par with hib groups though ...

what hib grp setup are ya talking about, cus if its melee id prefer to have some cousy alb RA's than GP who aint that ubah fubah hippie hey! as hib-melee grp.. but thats the price we play to not be like everyone else.

 

[Rulke-RM]

Midgard is underpowered, it must be true because I read it on VN Boards

 

[<Harle>]

DH manages to keep their casters alive because the savages are str/con, dex/qui, dex and str-debuffed and diseased and hit like a wet fish. The typical hib-BM group has no debuffs available, while the alb-group has at least the aoe str/con-debuff on the sorc ( iirc).

Originally posted by ab-fluid
Tank grps i run in are bard, bm, bm, bm, bm/hero, druid, druid, warden. 6sec pbt doesn't do a huge deal, but the resists are good against casted stun, mezz etc.

this is just stupid imo, if our druids, which fyi as soon as the bard goes end, have no speed at all, are meant to keep away from a 3merc assist train who still have sorc speed when mincer goes weapon, then how is it that a cleric or a sorc ever gets hit at all by a hib tank

If pbt doesn't make a difference anyway, and if you're so concerned about in-combat-speed, then why don't you let the warden run speed-chant instead of bubble then ?

 

[Pandemic]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
If mids run:
4 healers 1 shaman 3 savages or 3 healers 1 warrior 1 shaman 3 savages.

Played by very good players, the above groups should NEVER lose to a fg, i haven't met either yet thank god, but the usual savage group certainly isn't unkillable, yet they do have the advantages yes and when albs have no bof+sos up it's free rps for the mids if they are good.(due to not having a det GUARD tank in the perfect alb groups you can have a tough time vs savages, unless of course you have 2 mercs+s/s arms which makes your dmg lower)

this grp even when played by very good players does still (very rarely) lose. midgard only has 1 very good active grp that being the JH grp so all the other mid grps can be beaten with this setup. there are several albion and hibernian guilds that can beat this setup if ur guild isnt one of them then learn how to.

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by <Harle>
DH manages to keep their casters alive because the savages are str/con, dex/qui, dex and str-debuffed and diseased and hit like a wet fish. The typical hib-BM group has no debuffs available, while the alb-group has at least the aoe str/con-debuff on the sorc ( iirc).



If pbt doesn't make a difference anyway, and if you're so concerned about in-combat-speed, then why don't you let the warden run speed-chant instead of bubble then ?

having a warden in ur sig i thought that would be fairly obvious, i run dmg add as main in tank grp, twisting in pbt everytime the timer comes back up, they are instas, speed on the other hand is a 3sec castime spell.

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
If mids run:
4 healers 1 shaman 3 savages or 3 healers 1 warrior 1 shaman 3 savages.

Played by very good players, the above groups should NEVER lose to a fg, i haven't met either yet thank god

you haven't met either yet?

so what setup do pryd mids use???

 

[K0nah]

BaF did so well because of superb use of pets and uber stealthy droods/warden. i miss them, was always a great fg fight, win or lose

 

[old.mattshanes]

Most of the time 3 savages 3 healers 1 skald 1 shaman or 3 healers 2 savages 1 skald 1 warrior 1 shaman.

Maybe i have met the second one i stated on the post you quoted but it's such a rare sight.

Next patch though probably will finally make all realms normal mode