archer lovin

[Vodkafairy]

scout will be an insane guardbot with det and stuff

 

[Kinad]

scout will be an insane guardbot with det and stuff

Yes they might be able to play fine in groups, if they are high enough rr to
buy the stuff, but thats the way it should have been all along,

I newer minded play in groups, its the groups who minded a gimped scout.

 

[Fatbelly]

um wow ppl posting sensible stuff!? maybe judgement day is near =(

 

[Fatbelly]

If the uninterruptible archery mode goes live, archers in grp will be >>> casters (like mythic said they wanted it to be from the start, hm) pretty good to stand next to support/caster and bodyguard +shoot without interruption. Imo one archer/grp would be pretty good, uber combination of defense/offence.

Archer in grp with perma true sight would be the end of solo stealthers in main rvr areas ... which also is a vision of mythic,they say they want it so noone should be able to solo.

Now.. the only thing that stops archers from owning solo is... other archers in grp with perma TS^^

Assassins will still have to solo though? nothing grpfriendly there.. maybe mythics way to nerf the assassin population. Seems to me assassins will have a killrate roughly like archers had in the un-nerfed SH days..
Oh well, assassins have had it so easy for so long.....

Its payback time?

 

[censi]

yer, i got a bit of concern about TS.

but 30 points for ts3 which is the real money shot one is huge

everyone wants purge.

so thats 15 points

Everyone wants IP

so thats 30 points now.

TS3. thats 60 points

Thats rr7.

most scouts and rangers will go TS2.

Archers will also want high prevent damage if they solo. They will also maybe want things like determination, Mop, FE.

I got a feeling TS wont go in like it is now. Too many assasins will quit. (shame cuase the inital implemented form of See hidden was a clip range Archer death RA for assasin, it was obvious from the start how bad that was and we had over a year and a half of see hideen for it finally went)

 

[Reloaded]

The new TS = bad game dynamics. Its like the old See Hidden.
If this goes live...assassins MUST team with archers or cancel/reroll.

archers finnaly have a chance to strike back after al those months, even years

 

[Antedeluvian]

The new TS = bad game dynamics. Its like the old See Hidden.
If this goes live...assassins MUST team with archers or cancel/reroll.

Cry me a river, now assasins MUST use tactics not only walk near an archer to perf him. Scouts, rangers, hunters.... we all deserve it.

Now if only mythic would nerf envenom line (how about invalidate the use of bonus to get higher lvl poisons?) and eliminate the penalty for small shield vs dual wield (hunters and rangers had love in beastcraf/pathfinding, scouts should have love in shield espec)......
And yeah, you can cancel/reroll if you want, just like we had to in the old see hidden days, now is pay back time, deal whit it. :touch:

 

[Cyfr]

Archers need a nerf, they are overpowerd

 

[Kinad]

The proposed new ts is not overpowered on an archer, espically when you
consider new vanish. It is in fact a very fair ability 1on1, since 99,9% of all archers need to start combat with some shots to have a fair chance against
an assasin.

I would have prefered they removed advanced detection on assasins, which is only good against archers/minstrels anyway. With SL items assasins will
have 2000 range detection in 1.68, that is a massive nerf to archers/minstrels, and there is nothing to prevent assasins using this in fg
activly. This is not affected by RA's.

With 1.68 SL changes any group who wants too can have ts at 800 range up
24/7.

Fg's with SL ts, archers with TS3, Assasins with SL items, PN ......

I have a feeling the current stealthwar will come to an end, and what use is
ts3 then ?

26 % perm absorb is nice, but the price is very high. Its clearly a designed
ability to help casters and archers in melee, since only they are given.
This aint something a Mythic employee just figured out after drinking 20+
beers, its designed to help. Ap3 in its current form is not a win button for
archers in melee, atleast not for scouts and hunters. Paying 1/3 of total
rp's on mostly ranged classes to give them absorb in melee might help them
survive longer, but it wont make them gods.

I think people look at these abilities as if they where used in 1.67, but they
will come with frontier and maybe vanish3 will be a much better utility than
ap5. Maybe there will be so few solo stealthers that ts3 is useless.
I dont think there will be that many changes to these abilities, they are clearly designed to help certain classes against certain fotm ways of playing.

Cure mezz to necros, raise pet level and fast resummon, that looks like a try
to balance not to screw the non necro players.
Removal of attack/casting speed from ra's is clearly a try to correct the imbalance toa caused.
20 sec melee immunity to sorcs is clearly a try to help sorcs from being the
first one allways to die first.
Det and fast purge to hybrids.
.....

After looking at the list, i think they really are trying to balance, but im sure
something will be overpowered and we can hope they are fast to correct and not let it go on for a year.

 

[RS|Phil]

I agree that archers did need something like this (hey I play a hunter) but sadly I don't think this is the right way to go about it. You're basically fucking over anyone who has an assassin main. And with the advent of Stealth Lore, and prescience nodes, assassins are fast becoming a walking bullseye.

Perhaps something less deffinitive. Like you can see them but not target them. Lets you move away but doesn't let you critical shot them from miles away.

 

[Hothnogg]

<<<<< MISS the gold old days! Bring back Balnor!!!!!
And fatbelly ya looking forward to killing lots of assassins?

 

[Calaen]

I agree that archers did need something like this (hey I play a hunter) but sadly I don't think this is the right way to go about it. You're basically fucking over anyone who has an assassin main. And with the advent of Stealth Lore, and prescience nodes, assassins are fast becoming a walking bullseye.

Perhaps something less deffinitive. Like you can see them but not target them. Lets you move away but doesn't let you critical shot them from miles away.

What about the people that play Hunter, Ranger Scout as main?

Censi has already pointed out u gotta be rr7 to have what everyone is complaining about.

The majority of archer classes will now be able to choose something that atleast makes them a little more playable for themselves. TS 3 sounds great but TS 2 is good enough for you to avoid a situation which lets face it most archers that had TS only used it to get passed the over camped mile gates safely.

 

[RS|Phil]

What about the people that play Hunter, Ranger Scout as main?

That would be me. I have a hunter as my main character, but unlike some people I'm able to accept that an ASSASSIN can occasionally get close enough to ASSASSINATE me. I live with it, its part of being an archer.

You can't totally gimp a class just because that class happens to be the enemy of your main character. It's ridiculous.

 

[Glottis]

That would be me. I have a hunter as my main character, but unlike some people I'm able to accept that an ASSASSIN can occasionally get close enough to ASSASSINATE me. I live with it, its part of being an archer.

You can't totally gimp a class just because that class happens to be the enemy of your main character. It's ridiculous.

LOL, what cave have you been living in? A hunter, scout or ranger won't be ganking assasins anytime soon even with perma TS3, 1k detect hidden range.
It will just prevent archers from being PA'd or being free rp's.
I must admit that hunters should have a great laugh, sending in their pets to bite the assasins. Assasins had free rp's for well over a year with the uber see hidden. If an archer is to get something that is close they are spending 30 rp's on it, which means sacrificing a lot.
And don't worry assasins, archers will still not be grouped. The perfect setup comes first.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Marczje]

And don't worry assasins, archers will still not be grouped.
Regards, Glottis

Hehehhe

Irony?

 

[Matmardigan]

At least it will stop lettin me be a rp cow moo

 

[Saxo]

Shadoeblades , Nightshades and infils will S_U_X and get forced to groupe / zerg groupe at patch 1,69 its just so lame. Remove that damn TS its good as it already is man. Should be enough with sureshot and DET for sure... ah well when the patch come ill make a scout ^^

 

[Kinad]

Ts3 will prevent lone assasins mindless ganking archers as it is today, but

a) Vanish2-3 will allow assasin to escape, if an archer try.
b) If more enemy assasins in the area, an attack might be very foolish.
c) Even if archer and assasin is alone in the area, very few archers will have
the items and ra to win a fight from 1000 range.
d) IP today = 2*hp if timed correct, ap5+ip(80%) = 2,27*hp if timed correct,
hardly something assasins need to fear that much, yes it will be up a lot more
than today, but often assasins beat archers even when ip is up. Passive ap5,
altho nice on paper seems at the cost, maybe only to be worth it to a melee specced ranger.

I doubt it will be the payback time as many archers believe. Ts3 will improve
archers in the way they will be able to avoid assasins often, it wont make
them gods of stealth war. Consider that any class in the game can have SL,
at close to same range, running a lot of the time it not so overpowered.
By all means do make archers, but this wont make you kings of anything, its a long time since mages didnt have bt and any resists. Archers are decent leechers, not kings of rvr. Spending 99% of a rr10 class rp's on 1 specifik
situation might severly gimp it .

 

[Feinar]

Ts3 will prevent lone assasins mindless ganking archers as it is today, but

a) Vanish2-3 will allow assasin to escape, if an archer try.
b) If more enemy assasins in the area, an attack might be very foolish.
c) Even if archer and assasin is alone in the area, very few archers will have
the items and ra to win a fight from 1000 range.
d) IP today = 2*hp if timed correct, ap5+ip(80%) = 2,27*hp if timed correct,
hardly something assasins need to fear that much, yes it will be up a lot more
than today, but often assasins beat archers even when ip is up. Passive ap5,
altho nice on paper seems at the cost, maybe only to be worth it to a melee specced ranger.

I doubt it will be the payback time as many archers believe. Ts3 will improve
archers in the way they will be able to avoid assasins often, it wont make
them gods of stealth war. Consider that any class in the game can have SL,
at close to same range, running a lot of the time it not so overpowered.
By all means do make archers, but this wont make you kings of anything, its a long time since mages didnt have bt and any resists. Archers are decent leechers, not kings of rvr. Spending 99% of a rr10 class rp's on 1 specifik
situation might severly gimp it .

Mate, passive TS not a problem actually. Problem is ranged archer's attack. Give me (asSB) high range and atleast equal dmg throwing knifes and ill be pretty statisfied without any IP, cammo, AP e. t. c. (U tell that archers havent enough points to get all usefull RAs? But atleast u have a chance to get em. We havent) U can not only avoid assasins traps with lvl2 range TS (or even lvl3), but atleast shoot at any assasin in range to just pop him from stealth, isnt it? Without being touched. Vanish? Nice. But its porting randomly. Stealth after porting? Nice. But who cares about stealth when TS is working all the time? As for SL - enough ppl using SL theese days already, but i was beaten by SL user rarely then by archer's TS. Well, maybe not rarely, but just imagine: SL has a timer and will be nerfed, TS - have no timer, no lenght. It working all the time. And we have no cammo to (atleast) hiding somewhere between fights. So IMO its not a "balance", its a really "paybacktime". If its comes live ofc.

PS: my point of wiew - if Mythik can remove AP from NSs, why not just remove TS and SH from game and finish all this "forum stealth wars".

 

[Jaem-]

hmm, TS3 is like 30 points, and that is 1000 range, right? well thats under half of bow range (depending on which archer class you play). so they'll get 1st 1-2 shots then maybe about 2-3 more maybe, just get some DD charges (1500range I think) on assasins to interupt.

If their fast enough should save them from being hit for 2-3 arrows while they run towards em, but people that dunno about /face vs archers should die anyways for being fools

 

[Feinar]

DD charges? Nice...

 

[Matmardigan]

PS: my point of wiew - if Mythik can remove AP from NSs, why not just remove TS and SH from game and finish all this "forum stealth wars".

TS is the only realy usefull RA which archers have "atm", personaly u want play a sb because u like sb's ok, why u want play em? because u want hunt and gank solo guys? Do u thing this solo guys dont want it 2? And if u choose the life as a archer u choosing a realy shit 1 "atm", without TS u r blind 4 everything whats movin directly in front beside or behinde u, u just able 2 see ppl which have lower stealth than u and this r mostly low lvl infils which want group with u, 2 be unable 2 see whats around u made archers 2 that what they r. RP Farm Cows.
Try 2 imagine how it would be if i would came directly in front of ur nose 2 crit shoot u and u wouldnt notice it till u get shooted.
Maybe just play a bg1 archer 4 just 1 2 hours 2 see how blind they running throug there world. They arent able 2 see anything, and tbh archers should be able 2 see whats goin on in front of there noses.

 

[Marczje]

TS is the only realy usefull RA which archers have "atm", personaly u want play a sb because u like sb's ok, why u want play em? because u want hunt and gank solo guys? Do u thing this solo guys dont want it 2? And if u choose the life as a archer u choosing a realy shit 1 "atm", without TS u r blind 4 everything whats movin directly in front beside or behinde u, u just able 2 see ppl which have lower stealth than u and this r mostly low lvl infils which want group with u, 2 be unable 2 see whats around u made archers 2 that what they r. RP Farm Cows.
Try 2 imagine how it would be if i would came directly in front of ur nose 2 crit shoot u and u wouldnt notice it till u get shooted.
Maybe just play a bg1 archer 4 just 1 2 hours 2 see how blind they running throug there world. They arent able 2 anything, and tbh archers should be able 2 see whats goin on in front of there noses.

I respecced ts to purge and works perfectly fine, fixes both the dragonfanging infs and the lag that came as when i use it on amg oO

archers dont 'need' ts.

 

[Jaem-]

TS is the only realy usefull RA which archers have "atm", personaly u want play a sb because u like sb's ok, why u want play em? because u want hunt and gank solo guys? Do u thing this solo guys dont want it 2? And if u choose the life as a archer u choosing a realy shit 1 "atm", without TS u r blind 4 everything whats movin directly in front beside or behinde u, u just able 2 see ppl which have lower stealth than u and this r mostly low lvl infils which want group with u, 2 be unable 2 see whats around u made archers 2 that what they r. RP Farm Cows.
Try 2 imagine how it would be if i would came directly in front of ur nose 2 crit shoot u and u wouldnt notice it till u get shooted.
Maybe just play a bg1 archer 4 just 1 2 hours 2 see how blind they running throug there world. They arent able 2 see anything, and tbh archers should be able 2 see whats goin on in front of there noses.

This is kind of a reason why I hate but yet love soloing with an archer :/

Can't see naff all, yet I hate grouping an assasin that can see all near, but means I also can't see him, so its always like where he/she go? oh wait, other side of Mg while I'm getting jumped by an enemy assasin. but I guess its just n00b sb grouping me that don't reply to my continous "where are you? where are you?" in /g

 

[Matmardigan]

thats ur point of view. Ok

Without TS archers wouldnt be able 2 check a place if its safe or not. Perma TS on Aussi will be hell 4 all low and maybe some high rr mid/hib stealthers, but not all archers have enough points 2 spent it 4 TSIII and all other needed RA's which letting the archer survifable.

My "Point" is, archers have 2 be able 2 see whats goin on around them.

And Nobody of us played Frontiers with his new RA's till now so no1 can say what will happen 2 the stealth wars with perma ts. Its all just speculation what we talikn about here.

 

[Feinar]

thats ur point of view. Ok

Without TS archers wouldnt be able 2 check a place if its safe or not. Perma TS on Aussi will be hell 4 all low and maybe some high rr mid/hib stealthers, but not all archers have enough points 2 spent it 4 TSIII and all other needed RA's which letting the archer survifable.

My "Point" is, archers have 2 be able 2 see whats goin on around them.

And Nobody of us played Frontiers with his new RA's till now so no1 can say what will happen 2 the stealth wars with perma ts. Its all just speculation what we talikn about here.

As for TS - as i said, i am up to remove both, TS and SH. Why u talking about only TS then? Without SH assasin blind too. But anyways, this thing about removing was just mine "PS", so its not important. Main point was: archers have many RAs to defend theirselves from assasins. They get it cause of assasins was too overpovered. Ok. But now they get RAs that help offence and still have defence things, especially with long attack range. Not many RR points to get them all? Well, atleast u can balance it somehow. U can choose, what to get - RAs for range or meelee. Now check what assasins get. What choise i have?
1. I am forced to go meelee but have no IP.
2. I am forced to go meelee but have no AP
3. No Det. So i am get mezz-stun all the time, full lenght.
4. Meelee again. Against lones. But really single char so rare. Usually there is a grp after him in 5-10 sec or so. Archer have a distance with target, so can shoot from hill and have a chance to run if any. What can i say about assasins... 90% suicide.
6. I have no any ranged attacks (we didnt count throwing knifes, isnt it?). So i am again forced to be able to get closer to target. No way...
5. We was nerfed to not be able to kill fighters solo, cause its not our targets. Ok. We was nerfed to not 1-hit-kill mages without unstealth. Ok. Now archers... So what to kill? Yes. Still mages. But hm... hey, they grpped usually. Will see how Shadow strike works. But what about NS or Infil?
6. We was nerfet to not solo. Ppl start to complain about stealthzerg. But as more assasin nerfs comes, then more they zerging. No choise again.

e. t. c.

But u right. We cant look how it works untill Frontiers out.

 

[Matmardigan]

it isnt just SH whats makes assasins > archers. Archers arent able 2 use there Bows if they cant see anything. Uve more stealth.
Personaly ive 2 drop stealth and shield 2 be able 2 win a melee fight against a sb without usin my "MAIN" Weapon.

And this problem of a archer not be albe 2 use his main Weapon cause he cant see any shit will change when Archers get a higher range 2 detect stealthers.

Maybe it will fuck off a assasins day when he get shooted and unstealthed from a archer but archers got killed 4 2 long 2 let it be how it is atm.

 

[Glottis]

Aussie don't need TS. He will own a solo SB in straight melee anyway.
Not sure how he does against NS though, but they don't come to Emain very much anyway.
TS is of very little use right now, pretty much a waisted 10 points anyway.
You can use TS when you are in a group, and gank some assasins/archers but get crap rp's for it.
Or you can use it when solo and get ganked silly, or find the enemy just running away from you, and stealthing after 1 min...
Oh, the joy of TS.
For the rest you tend to be walking rp's for every assasin, except with purge and ip up. However, assasins tend to have their own version of IP, "spawn 2nd assasin".
Of course, once you get passed rr6 live becomes a bit easier, but this goes for most classes. rr6+ minstrels are pretty uber, scouts are okish, infs are pretty uber.
Rr's matter more than most people think.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Feinar]

it isnt just SH whats makes assasins > archers. Archers arent able 2 use there Bows if they cant see anything. Uve more stealth.
Personaly ive 2 drop stealth and shield 2 be able 2 win a melee fight against a sb without usin my "MAIN" Weapon.

And this problem of a archer not be albe 2 use his main Weapon cause he cant see any shit will change when Archers get a higher range 2 detect stealthers.

Maybe it will fuck off a assasins day when he get shooted and unstealthed from a archer but archers got killed 4 2 long 2 let it be how it is atm.

If i remember correctly, all be OK untill assasins got SH. And tell me, what assasin can do if he didnt see the archer? Same as ur bow. We have a good meelee skill ok, but we have no chance to get a secondary ranged weps. Archers have. Main problem is if archer get higher range to detect an assasin, he can kill him 99% times i think. If not kill then hurt hard. Same shit with blind archer and SHed assasin. Its not ur fault, or mine. Its a problem of game balance. Ind i think they need to think about how to make game more balanced, not just "now is your round to bash teh dammit assasins".
And btw rangers have a good meelee skill for example.

 

[Matmardigan]

And i think they need to think about how to make game more balanced, not just "now is your round to bash teh dammit assasins".
And btw rangers have a good meelee skill for example.

Imo it isnt possible 2 contented everybody. Its like u would try 2 creat a Utopia 4 ever1, it isnt possible. There will be always some which r ganking and some which r get ganked. There are 2 much factors which r inclueded.

4example:

uve just some seconds time 2 react 2 a situation, the 1 with better reaction and luck with usin his RA's will win, but if a second guy is inc directly in this second where u close 2 kill him, they will gank u.

Wheres the balance in that? u would win the 1vs1 but accidental a second 1
pops and ur fucked.
So u can try 2 balance how much u want, accident isnt balanceable.

btw ranger dont have 2 spec pathfinding in times with bb's

edit:

ur wish 2 get range attack weapons like throwing knifes woulnd balance the game, u could stay like a archer somewhere on hill and u could throw ur knifes 360° around ur self and if u would get attacked by any1 u could change 2 ur usual weapon and could kill him like ususal.

?!?