Anyone want to build me a gym workout thing...

[Vladamir]

A 500kcal excess isn't sufficient for mass gaining imo. I'm eating about 3500 or so a day, all clean foods. Since starting in march, i've gone from 11 stone (~158lbs) to 13 stone 8lbs (~190lbs). Granted its not all uber muscle, theres a fair bit of water retention/fat in there too, but still the only way to do it.

Ati, do you not think though at 16 you're still growing quite a lot?. I know i was. While i did a lot more resistance training/machine work at 16, it wasn't enough to cause substantial growth.

Doing free weights/heavy compound work will cause muscles to 'wrap' around your bones too much, meaning they're unable to grow properly and ossify (become solid) at either end with too much early weight training.

Although if you are still insistant on training, what weights do you have access to before i make up a split?

 

[Bugz]

A 500kcal excess isn't sufficient for mass gaining imo. I'm eating about 3500 or so a day, all clean foods. Since starting in march, i've gone from 11 stone (~158lbs) to 13 stone 8lbs (~190lbs). Granted its not all uber muscle, theres a fair bit of water retention/fat in there too, but still the only way to do it.

Ati, do you not think though at 16 you're still growing quite a lot?. I know i was. While i did a lot more resistance training/machine work at 16, it wasn't enough to cause substantial growth.

Doing free weights/heavy compound work will cause muscles to 'wrap' around your bones too much, meaning they're unable to grow properly and ossify (become solid) at either end with too much early weight training.

Although if you are still insistant on training, what weights do you have access to before i make up a split?

In that case, it seems that my best option is to just bulk out and wait till im 18 before I start training properly?

 

[Vladamir]

In that case, it seems that my best option is to just bulk out and wait till im 18 before I start training properly?

I wouldn't start a bulk until you're training properly tbh. Just make a few lifestyle changes if neccessary to get yourself in the right frame of mind for it. A lot of background research will also aid you massively. Diet is key here, get that nailed and you can progress substantially faster.

Just make sure you can identify the cleanest sources of foods in required proportions and so on. Knowledge is power

But that's not to say you can't do any training at all, it's still beneficial to your health at any age.

Personally i'd concentrate on the less physically demanding workouts. E.g; Basic movements, 4 sets of 12 reps at a given weight. That way you're not using a heavy enough weight to cause enough muscle fibre stimulation to initiate any substantial growth, yet you can still gain strength quite nicely and develop your stabilising muscles/neural pathways to the extent where you can move straight onto real training techniques.

Hope it helps

 

[Bugz]

Personally i'd concentrate on the less physically demanding workouts. E.g; Basic movements, 4 sets of 12 reps at a given weight. That way you're not using a heavy enough weight to cause enough muscle fibre stimulation to initiate any substantial growth, yet you can still gain strength quite nicely and develop your stabilising muscles/neural pathways to the extent where you can move straight onto real training techniques.

Well I use to lift light weights, aka. 7 KG on one arm, 18 on both but the gain was minimal. I have to tense to feel the pec muscle

I'll try out what you said there.

Thanks again.

 

[Elkie]

Well I use to lift light weights, aka. 7 KG on one arm, 18 on both but the gain was minimal. I have to tense to feel the pec muscle

I'll try out what you said there.

Thanks again.

just dont over do it if you stick to what vlad has said, at your age you should be fine

 

[Tasslehoff]

I'm only 17 (turned 17 this summer,) and I'm figuring I'm not fully grown, yet I train anyway. You just HAVE to do it in a casual way, no bodybuilder-6rep-stuff

I do 2 sets of 10-12 repetitions, talked it through with some of the instructors it should not stop my body from maturing, so don't see why it would be any different for you!

But basically, just remember not to push it. The only place I push it a bit is on the benchpress, but that's just for a bit of fun (still go 10-12 reps, just take a few more sets and try to push up the weight.)

Hope it helps

 

[DavidH]

In general, you shouldn't be doing any hard training until you know your muscles are fully grown. When you're around 18, you should be fine.
Before that you'll be better off swimming laps in the local pool, running and much more. There's absolutely no use starting to train at an early age, it won't pay off in the long run for your body.
But hey, do as you like.

 

[DavidH]

And like Tasslehoff say, if you wanna train at an early age, at least don't pressure yourself to the limit. Just.. take it easy There's no rush.

 

[Tasslehoff]

In general, you shouldn't be doing any hard training until you know your muscles are fully grown. When you're around 18, you should be fine.
Before that you'll be better off swimming laps in the local pool, running and much more. There's absolutely no use starting to train at an early age, it won't pay off in the long run for your body.
But hey, do as you like.

For me it's generally just getting to use my body in some way, I like to do sports and stuff, but doing it in a club irratates me as you have to go at set points in your freetime, going with a mate down the gym is much more relaxing and you get in form and fix up weak parts of your body and stuff (like I had a weak knee before I started training and now it's not weak anymore )

Not trying to defend what I do, just saying I don't do it to look like a big motherfucker, don't really care if you can spot the difference after I've been to the gym for 2 years, all I care about is my body working properly

EDIT: just saw your second post, thought the first one was directed at me

 

[Vladamir]

Tassle wait until you do some heavy compound work, thats when the fun really starts :>

 

[Kagato]

I've been going to the gym for about 2 months now, im also trying to gain weight.

Which seems alot bloody harder then losing weight, at 6ft 2 and 9 and a half stone I have barely 4.6% bodyfat.

2 months in the gym, new diet and the works and im still no heavier lol.

I feel alot healthier, just not putting any weight on.

I usually spend an hour in the gym doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps on most muscles as high as I can handle to make the last set very hard to finish. (lateral raises are absolute murder for me).

Problem is theres alot of contradictory advice about when it comes to diet, protien is usually said to be good, yet im also told the body cannot hold protien, so are the protien shakes a waste of time? complex carbohydrates taste crap but are still supposed to be best in long run.

Inbetween that I try and use my weights at home when my shifts don't let me go to the gym just for frontal raises, lateral raises and lifts.

 

[Vladamir]

Kagato are you sure you're as low as 4.6%?.

Protein shakes aren't a magic pill by any means. When you're trying to gain mass (bulking phase) you need an excess calories of at least 500, i normally aim for about 1000 over maintenance (dependant on age/height/weight/lifestyle). So in reaching a high-calorie diet, liquid calories are your friend. The number of times i've been asked "Oh so is that a protein shake then?, is that why you're gaining weight so quick?".

The key to gaining weight is a clean diet, around 6 meals a day with quality carbs/proteins and fats. Oats/Chicken and Oily fish are the best source of these, but of course you need variation.

Near enough everyone who is serious about training and whatnot will take protein supplements (known most commonly as Whey Protein) as it allows you to reach your protein intake with a lot greater ease. If you look into this, do not go by brands and fancy packaging, it's much more cost effective to go for unbranded and it does the same job.

With regards to training, what exercises are you doing?. The 6-8 rep range is considered the 'agreed medium' for the best balance of fibre stimulation for mass/strength. Higher reps (8+) focus more on muscular endurance, 6-8 for more mass orientated goals, and 2-4 primarily for strength/powerlifters.

Compound work is also key here. By this i mean the three main exercises which utilise multiple muscle groups (Benchpress, Deadlift and Squat). These focus on working a number of groups which allows for the most optimal growth due to providing the best stimulation and thus resulting in a prolonged anabolic environment (basically where your body starts to use proteins and so on to rebuild and repair muscle after a session).

Normally a workout would consist of a small number of compound movements dependant on the routine or split, then maybe 1 or 2 isolation exercises.

If people want to post up their routines and whatnot i'm happy to critique them and give advice.

Other than that this website has been my bible since starting seriously training.

www.muscletalk.co.uk

It's very much a no bullshit advice and information forum, though it has helped myself and many others immensely.

Ok i went off on one there but it probably cleared up a few things for some people

 

[Laddey]

I bought some milkshake that gains muscle size and strength, £40 it cost me. I'm planning on putting about a stone or two on. I'm 12 at the mo, i'm 5 nearly 6 foot.

Basically i want to put the weight on then tone up. Whats the best way to put weight on. I eat 4 meals (maybe 5) a day, 2 of those milkshakes and 2 of those meals are fry up and take away. I'm still a little runt

Any suggestions?

I smoke. I hear that doesn't help with your matabilism, other than quitting smoking how else can i gain mass

 

[Kagato]

Yes I was 4.6 % body fat only on my first assesment 2 months ago, 2 weeks ago it went up to 5.1% after i've been piling in the protien and carbs etc.

(the term very under weight and severe health risk may of been mentioned somewhere in the assesment....)

For the record im 27, 6ft 2, about 62 kg or 9 and a half stone ish.

Im mostly following the plan the guy at the gym set out for me, though I don't have alot of confidence in his experiance (fresh out of school etc).


I cannot remember the exact names of the machines/excercies but basically its like:

Front curl 3 x 8 10 kg
Lateral raise 3 x 8 4 (really struggle with those)
over head lift (not sure proper name, lifting weights above head) 3 X 8 8kg
chest press 3 x 8 35
lateral pull down 3 x 8 35
front row 3 x 8 35
lateral dip 3 x 8 35
Assisted dip 3 x 8 20
leg press 3 x 8 52
calf excercise thingy 3 x 8 20 each leg
Lower back press 3 x 12 52
abdominal 3 x 12 60 and I usually push the last set until I can't do anymore.

Im supposed to split those up between 2 days but I usually do the lot if I have time and the machines/db's are free.

It seems pretty decent to me, I think my diet is the biggest problem though its not as bad as it used to be, I have a fast metabolism I eat alot but it just dissappears.

I sometimes drink those multipower milkshades too depending on if im working out that day or not, think their £19 for a tub.

 

[Vladamir]

Smoking will speed up your metabolism yes Laddey, stop it and weight would initially be gained easier. I'd also suggest if any of that milkshake stuff is unopened and returnable, i'd do so. More than likely it's got some fancy packaging with a load of long-worded jargon to most of us which makes it appealing. At the end of the day any "weight gainer formula" from H+B, York or whatever is basically a load of cheap proteins thrown together with some sugars to bump up the carb content (which are bad carbs too, might i add), so they can say "High calorie, high protein drink".

In terms of getting bigger, it's simple.

Clean, big diet + Well structured training + Adequate rest = Big.

The fry up is going to be full of saturated fat, which while some is needed, the amount you'll be getting everyday is going to put the quality of the weight gained in question. Also with a takeaway they are 'dirty' calories, fine once in a week/while, but as a staple meal they should be avoided.

Kagato given that you've been training for 2 months on machines it's not a suprise you haven't made much gains. While initial resistance machine work is fundamental in any weight training it is only needed for 6 weeks or so before moving onto real exercises. This is like a break-in period for newcomers which allows your joints and tendons to strengthen and become accustomed to regular activities which involve putting stress on the joints (in the good sense of the word).

Any serious training will focus predominantly around free weights. Why?. Because they utilise a lot more muscle groups (compound exercises) and also bring your stabiliser muscles into play. Using a machine will generally just facilitate the same actions as an isolation exercise, which when looking at some of the machine exercises (Chest/Back/Leg machines) is a bad idea when looking for maximum growth stimulation.

A full body routine is probably best suited to yourself for the first 2 months of predominant free-weight based training. You can do this over 2 or 3 days normally, depending on how often you can get to the gym. Your workout will consist primarily of dumbell, barbell and bodyweight exercises. You're likely to work in the 6-8 rep range more than 10-12 as stated before. Once you've built up some initial strength and got your form sorted for most of the exercises you can look at doing a different variation of split. I know it can feel uncomfortable/intimidating going into the free weights area with all the big guys, but if you need a spot with any exercise (where they support the weight as you begin to reach failure where required to prevent injury), they'll normally be more than happy to help. Most importantly they don't bite, they're there to train, just like you.

Heres a couple of links written by one of the Moderators in the forum i mentioned in my previous post. These provide pretty much all the basic information you need in getting started with proper training.

Bodybuilding For the Beginner - http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_2245/tm.htm

New to the gym? - http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_1101455/tm.htm

Bulking/Mass Gaining - http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-mass-gaining.asp

Terminology/Jargon - http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_485902/tm.htm

Don't be intimidated when it says bodybuilding. At the end of the day the same route is taken for weight training/powerlifting/bodybuilding. Very little changes in terms of exercise and diet.

Even better, register with the forum and ask any questions you have. People there are more than happy to help when asked politely and are even more likely to help again if you thank them.

Any other questions?

 

[DocWolfe]

what sort of calorie intake should you be looking at after the bulking phase? I mean I'm 14st now and pretty built, but I want to get rid of my belly. I can't run for shit coz I'm asthmatic.

 

[Ati]

Nerf, Vlad pwned me,

 

[Kagato]

I only just started on the free weights this last couple of weeks, it does feel better. But like you said it can be intimidating working over there on what i think of as 'the baby weights'

But thankfully its quite a friendly gym and most people are either helpful or simply ignore you, both work fine.

Problem with working rotating shifts is its rather irratic when I can get there. I go every weekend, saturday and sunday and then mid-week when im on night shifts.

I do have some limited weights at home though I can use.

I did do cardio work before the weights to begin with but that just seemed to be burning off calories I was trying to gain so now I usually just do various stretches before begining.

 

[Chronictank]

Any other questions?

can i buy you from mikah and use you as a personal trainer

 

[Vladamir]

what sort of calorie intake should you be looking at after the bulking phase? I mean I'm 14st now and pretty built, but I want to get rid of my belly. I can't run for shit coz I'm asthmatic.

Can you do cycling/rowing or any sort of cardio?. Ideally a steady state (~65% of max heart rate) form of cardio in the morning is best, as this allows for the body to directly use fat as an energy substrate as there are no carbohydrate stores available.

Any form of cardio along with a calorie intake below your maintenance (but not substantially) will allow for fat loss if you keep your protein intake high. You could expect to lose up to 2/3 lbs a week if you're strict with it, but again diet, weights and cardio are key.

Kagato - Try to avoid stretching before training. After = good, before = debateable, though i know most avoid it. A simple warm up set on a lower weight before beginning working sets is adequate. Stretching beforehand is thought to decrease strength output, i can't give the exact details but this is what i'm told ^^.

Stretching after however allows more blood to flow into the muscles, which allows more oxygen and nutrients to flow in, which increases repair, thus decreasing recovery time.

And Chronic i'm happy to help as it's a subject i very much enjoy

 

[Kagato]

Really? surely theres a risk of doing damage to yourself if you don't stretch properly before a work out?

The gym I go to has a nice sauna, steam room, heated pool and jacuzzi for streching and relaxing in after :england:

Its what makes the torture worth while.

Personally i'd be happy just to even gain a stone, some upper body muscle.

(though a 6 pack is always welcome.)

 

[DocWolfe]

Can you do cycling/rowing or any sort of cardio?. Ideally a steady state (~65% of max heart rate) form of cardio in the morning is best, as this allows for the body to directly use fat as an energy substrate as there are no carbohydrate stores available.

Any form of cardio along with a calorie intake below your maintenance (but not substantially) will allow for fat loss if you keep your protein intake high. You could expect to lose up to 2/3 lbs a week if you're strict with it, but again diet, weights and cardio are key.

Yeah I can row like a machine, used to be able to do 10k/session back when I was at school dont really have the facilities at the moment though. I think diet is the issue. Cheers.

 

[Infanity]

16 is young to start id say, Anyway - Why you wanna be a muscle man all of a sudden ;D ?

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

Age: 15 but turning 16 in less than a month.
Weight: 52-53 KG ish (slightly under 9 stone)
Height: 5'6
Body Type: Slender/skinny but athletic muscle
Equipment: Weights / Weight thing / Rowing Machine
How many times a week: I've read tissue rebuilds in 48 hours so 3-4 times a week.
Sports: Football/Rugby/Cycling (daily)/A lot of walking
Chane in diet: I've already changed to a high-calory diet (2500 calories a day ish) but yes, i'm willing to change more.

Bugz mate its Rollie, at 15/16 and that weight/height/build you are going to struggle to but any weight on full stop. Like Marc said best bet is weights and plenty of food but due to your slender build its going to be a bruce lee job for you mate, your never gonna look like Arnie.

At 16 i was 6ft2 and 11 stone 11 and extremely skinny, come 21 i was/am 6ft4 and 15 stone with a large bone structure, you have alot of change coming in your body and until then your best off just doing a few weights and keeping yourself fit, you may still grow and in a few years you will find it easier to put on weight/muscle.

 

[DocWolfe]

I'm naturally built... at 5'6 and 9 stone you're a stick. At 13 I was 11.5st, I wasn't necessarily fat, its just the way my body is shaped. I've got broad shoulders, a barrel chest and thick thighs. Some peoples bodies just aren't meant to hold muscle

My mate ali, who is similar height to me weighs in at just 11 stone, he really stuggles to gain any muscle at all, whereas I can maintain it and can build it from doing very little.

 

[Dracus]

I have a few questions sorta in this context. Its more about weightloss tho. Im about 5ft11 and weigh around 80kg. Ive lost 20kg the last 7-8 months and its starting to get hard to get rid of the last 7-10kg.

Im curious if anyone has a few pointers on how I can loose this weight? From what I can read its more about burning fat(exercising) than the diet after you loose the initial excess weight. Is this right? and how do I go about doing that with the best result?

Im already fairly muscular, so not really looking to build a lot more muscle(altho its not outta the question ofc )

Appreciate any help. Ow and very early for me..so excuse anything that can be conscrewed as blabbering.

/Dracus

 

[Vladamir]

I have a few questions sorta in this context. Its more about weightloss tho. Im about 5ft11 and weigh around 80kg. Ive lost 20kg the last 7-8 months and its starting to get hard to get rid of the last 7-10kg.

Im curious if anyone has a few pointers on how I can loose this weight? From what I can read its more about burning fat(exercising) than the diet after you loose the initial excess weight. Is this right? and how do I go about doing that with the best result?

Im already fairly muscular, so not really looking to build a lot more muscle(altho its not outta the question ofc )

Appreciate any help. Ow and very early for me..so excuse anything that can be conscrewed as blabbering.

/Dracus

Weight Loss = Calorie Deficit + Cardio. Morning cardio is best as said as the body can instantly use fat as an energy source. 40 minutes every morning at a steady state (which it must be to preserve muscle tissue) will burn off the fat IF your diet is on track.

Also with diet, eating small and more regularly (say every 2-3h is ideal) is a lot better for weight loss. Eating big meals will cause the body to convert some of the carbohydrates into fat stores in some cases.

 

[Vladamir]

Really? surely theres a risk of doing damage to yourself if you don't stretch properly before a work out?

The gym I go to has a nice sauna, steam room, heated pool and jacuzzi for streching and relaxing in after :england:

Its what makes the torture worth while.

Personally i'd be happy just to even gain a stone, some upper body muscle.

(though a 6 pack is always welcome.)

I've never had a problem with injuries or whatever when not stretching before a session. If i'm on Chest day, i'll normally warm up on a pair of 12.5/15kg dumb bells for 12-15 reps before upping the weight to that of a working set. Gets the blood flowing to the muscles as normal, so you avoid injury (as i seem to have)

 

[Marc]

I've been going to the gym for about 2 months now, im also trying to gain weight.

Which seems alot bloody harder then losing weight, at 6ft 2 and 9 and a half stone I have barely 4.6% bodyfat.

2 months in the gym, new diet and the works and im still no heavier lol.

I feel alot healthier, just not putting any weight on.

I usually spend an hour in the gym doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps on most muscles as high as I can handle to make the last set very hard to finish. (lateral raises are absolute murder for me).

Problem is theres alot of contradictory advice about when it comes to diet, protien is usually said to be good, yet im also told the body cannot hold protien, so are the protien shakes a waste of time? complex carbohydrates taste crap but are still supposed to be best in long run.

Inbetween that I try and use my weights at home when my shifts don't let me go to the gym just for frontal raises, lateral raises and lifts.

As I said to Nick, its because your body type is ectomorph. You will never gain masses of weight/muscle, no matter how much food you stuff into your body. Only way you will gain a lot of muscle is via steriods but that isnt advisable.

 

[Marc]

I have a few questions sorta in this context. Its more about weightloss tho. Im about 5ft11 and weigh around 80kg. Ive lost 20kg the last 7-8 months and its starting to get hard to get rid of the last 7-10kg.

Im curious if anyone has a few pointers on how I can loose this weight? From what I can read its more about burning fat(exercising) than the diet after you loose the initial excess weight. Is this right? and how do I go about doing that with the best result?

Im already fairly muscular, so not really looking to build a lot more muscle(altho its not outta the question ofc )

Appreciate any help. Ow and very early for me..so excuse anything that can be conscrewed as blabbering.

/Dracus

Basic equation to lose weight = Energy output > Energy input. Thats the simplist terms. However, the lesser the fat you have to lose, the harder it is. You just have to keep at it. It will eventually come off.