animst ninja nerf

[Gahn]

lol, I disagree with you so that makes me a retard? grow up, silly child.

And if you make theurgist pets have same life span as an anamist turret i'll gladly except the same limitations on the numbers.

Dude not that FnF turrets chase u while u run away tbh -.-

 

[charmangle]

On thing though...

I see alot of Hibs complaining about the nerf in PvE...

Now as I wrote above, I dont see that as a negative...

The Animists have always been horribly overpowered in PvE, rediculously so. When I first played Hib I was astonished by how reliant Hibs were on the shrooms. If you as a Raidleader asked a tank to do something, the answere you got was:"Me ? Why ? Use Animists!"

30 turrents is really enough to give PvE aid (ie lowering any mobs AF to 0 and making them OP as hell anyway), it might not be enough to take out ml10 with 6 people + bots. But that is just rediculous. Even if you are underpopulated.

Someone argued that those that have anis for PvE now have no use for them. Well thats rediculous, 2 anis are probably the best farming tool for xp or scrolls or what ever, as well as AF lowering tools. (seen 2 anis afk taking down 20-30 red-purple con mobs continuously in Green Glades, rediculous scroll/xp farming, unparallelled in daoc.

As for taking out high lvl mobs solo, you still have the most op focus shield class in all 3 realms. (since it doesnt have to respec between rvr and pve) And thats one effective way you could farm almost any encounter in the game.

So in my opinion this nerf is a bad RvR nerf for hib, but a good one in general for PvE.

/Charmangle

 

[cmr]

lol, I disagree with you so that makes me a retard? grow up, silly child.

And if you make theurgist pets have same life span as an anamist turret i'll gladly except the same limitations on the numbers.

yet again you are proove how biast and clueless you are, you sit there playing your little armsman on a bridge and have no clue about anything else do you..... oh i died to that nerf it, oh i killed that with rr5 thats balence and my pwn skill of pressing rr5 ofc.

Stop commenting on things you know nothing about.

 

[Gahn]

Well i dunno Pve wise i'd say it makes little to no difference, RvR wise instead (considering 1.88 is off some weeks) will hinder Animists (siege wise) for a month or so. It's a stupid decision imo to give a nerf and let ppl who actively play one with pants down for 1 month.

 

[Cromcruaich]

For those arguing that its a heavy nerf in PvE, I do think you should have a look at how Mids have to deal with PvE and have had to do it, focus shield takes care of most situations, its just a matter of learning how to use them. And Hib is still superior to mid in this category, since they get focus shield in the same spec as they rvr and dont have to respec to a usless PvE spec for it.

It is undoubtedly a pve nerf especially on low pop server. Talking about the minority of situations in any case where focus isnt viable not the majority where it is. That would be jacinas, boz, and some of the ml steps. For the majority of servers it doesnt make any difference as the numbers are there in anycase, but it will hit harder on duvet hib. Mids have cots, hib has shrooms. I dont find the argument about focus shield on rvr spec line particularly relevant in these times where the majority of people have either rolled or have access to a pve spec SM who wants one.

To say it isnt a heavy pve nerf is obviously wrong, you could more effectively argue that hib with shrooms was over powered in this respect in the first place.

 

[Maeloch]

Personally, I'd take the optimist slant on this - that's a it's a sign they gonna get looked at in open field. For some time animists been asking for an open field boost even if it means rebalancing at camp situations and imo the boost is inc.

 

[Cromcruaich]

On thing though...
30 turrents is really enough to give PvE aid (ie lowering any mobs AF to 0 and making them OP as hell anyway), it might not be enough to take out ml10 with 6 people + bots. But that is just rediculous. Even if you are underpopulated.

Someone argued that those that have anis for PvE now have no use for them. Well thats rediculous, 2 anis are probably the best farming tool for xp or scrolls or what ever, as well as AF lowering tools. (seen 2 anis afk taking down 20-30 red-purple con mobs continuously in Green Glades, rediculous scroll/xp farming, unparallelled in daoc.

/Charmangle

30 turrets isnt enough attacker bonus debuff for quite a few mobs.

I dispute the fact that youve seen 2 afk anis taking down 20 to 30 red purp mobs, infact, i'd go so far as to say thats pure bullshit, unless you are talking pre 15 shroom limit where it would probably of been possible, or perhaps you mean combined with some pbaoe. You certainly cant afk farm at anywhere near that rate with 2 anis if you had a mind to.

Its not ridiculous, ive got 4 anis for pve, and i'll have no use for 2 of em

 

[liloe]

Most shit nerf I've ever seen tbh. First of all what Shike said, 5 anis = 6 turrets each, wow.

So before anis get nerfed, it would maybe be time to give them a little boost cause the whole class is buggy as hell. Shrooms and LT are the ONLY forms of damage that an animist can cast to the outside in a keep defence and well, that reduces the whole thing to LT now, cause our main dmg nuke needs to take a walk to actually do something, great great great.

It's interesting how the classes are specially adapted to LotM nowadays. Bainshee nerf, ani nerf....what next? TWF with a smaller radius?

 

[Brackus]

Animists must be very popular in the US, you dont see many in RVR on English cluster infact, I'd say at most is 3-4 I've ever seen at once, the normal 2-3 trying to get MCL at crauch and the one high RR one Horlely


Eble

Krauser is also playing later at night sometimes. But yes very few anim's in rvr as for seige situations like id say you only ever see 1 animist around

 

[Cromcruaich]

Ive have seen moderna groups where pac healer and a couple of summon sm's plus shammie have taken out 20 to 30 red purps though

 

[thergador]

only fucking lt caster without a level 50 lifetap, bugged bombers and now they are useless in siege also. gg Mythic!

mmm must check my wizzys for LT
and bomber bugs have been addressed in 1.87

btw 1500 radius does not = a keep,keeps are about 2500 so just work out where to put them

 

[liloe]

mmm must check my wizzys for LT
and bomber bugs have been addressed in 1.87

btw 1500 radius does not = a keep,keeps are about 2500 so just work out where to put them

What part of "lt caster" did you not get? And no, bomber bugs have not been adjusted. Maybe imagine that your wizard's DD had to travel about 3s towards your enemy (that's if he's standing still) to unload. Now imagine an enemy is running away from your DD....you can imagine that? Good, then you know what ani's are like =)

 

[SkarIronfist]

1000 range would have made more sense seeing as though thats the range the turrets can nuke, but when have mythic ever made sense and thought things through. BDs are fixed now imo, hope they dont give them more love for the stupid people that play them now because they dont deserve it. !

Brite you never give it a rest do you, its just constant sniping, just because you don't play your BD much anymore.

Maybe you should delete your BD as a sign of how far the class and people who play it, has fallen since your hallowed days of full time BDing ?

 

[Gahn]

mmm must check my wizzys for LT
and bomber bugs have been addressed in 1.87

btw 1500 radius does not = a keep,keeps are about 2500 so just work out where to put them

U can imagine having to coordinate 10 animists in a siege, will be a frigging nightmare.
Also as liloe pointed out the travel bugs of bombers aren't fixed, let alone that they can be outrun and are prone to get slowed down by speedwarps.

 

[joap]

Ive have seen moderna groups where pac healer and a couple of summon sm's plus shammie have taken out 20 to 30 red purps though

Just a small correction Crom, for moderna you want supp spec sms (pbaoe ftw).

But yeah, it's possible to do some silly pulls in moderna with pacc + 3 supp sms + sham.

 

[uron]

difference between thurg and ani pets, u can mess ani turrets, making thm uselss, thurg pets u cant!
they should nerf thurgs imo, max no. of pets or the pets die faster....or even so u can mess thm! ani pets didnt need such a big nerf, thurgs do!

 

[DavidH]

Amazing how Mythic/EA keeps ruining DAoC. Oh well, what do I care since I play WoW now.

However, this only shows that they'll fuck up everything in Warhammer as well, so I'm probably gonna stay far away from that game. Oh the joy of loving a new class there, and 3 months later, the nerf arrives.

 

[Brackus]

So tell me if im wrong, but when was the last alb caster nerf? Animist will get nerf, bainshee had two nerfs and shortly getting a third I think, bd's got the interrupt nerf.
Firewiz got the debuff in its own dmg and a ns spell on earth, and when will they nerf the monster form? I think both hibs and mids would agree in its current state its too powerful. Half the dmg, or half the duration or half the abs.

 

[Gahn]

So tell me if im wrong, but when was the last alb caster nerf? Animist will get nerf, bainshee had two nerfs and shortly getting a third I think, bd's got the interrupt nerf.
Firewiz got the debuff in its own dmg and a ns spell on earth, and when will they nerf the monster form? I think both hibs and mids would agree in its current state its too powerful. Half the dmg, or half the duration or half the abs.

I would hope that, once shrooms won't be a problem no more, they would nerf it to a more normal level tbh.

 

[Kinetix]

Dont know much about animists but acording to what charm said on the PvE they really are OP. As for RvR as long as they fix the los of shrooms on keeps ( windows roof etc) should be ok.... a couple of aoe nukes like some1 said does resolve it ( as long as ppl arnt rp horny).
Ill say it again before some1 assaults me with insults im not a animist specialist, but the best animists i´ve seen out there kill more with the ?anger spirits? then with shrooms, so besides siege i dont think it makes much difference in rvr

 

[charmangle]

To say it isnt a heavy pve nerf is obviously wrong, you could more effectively argue that hib with shrooms was over powered in this respect in the first place.

I thought that was what I argued? That it was rediculously overpowered to start with! I never said it wasnt a heavy PvE nerf, it is, but it brings Hibs more in line with the other realms PvE wise, even on extremly low pop servers.

It is undoubtedly a pve nerf especially on low pop server. Talking about the minority of situations in any case where focus isnt viable not the majority where it is. That would be jacinas, boz, and some of the ml steps. For the majority of servers it doesnt make any difference as the numbers are there in anycase, but it will hit harder on duvet hib. Mids have cots, hib has shrooms. I dont find the argument about focus shield on rvr spec line particularly relevant in these times where the majority of people have either rolled or have access to a pve spec SM who wants one.

Now mids Cots is rediculous, its even worth its existance. Its a usless tool that makes little to no difference at all in PvE. (unless you are able to scare up 20-30 thanes/valks in a serg which I myself have never seen)
There is no situation I can think off at all where an ml9 sm pet isnt better than a Cots user. (there are some situations where they are equally usless though, dragon raids for example)

Now focus shield is appliable on almost all encounters, jacinas is still doable with focus shield (takes 2 ml9s + bots + puller), and BoZ is easy as hell to do with 2 ml9 focus shield casters + bots. Its all about learning how to use them, which Mids have HAD to do since they havent got anything else to use when their numbers isnt sufficant.

So yes its a heavy PvE nerf, but there are basically no encounters that arent doable with very very few people still, just using other ways, like Mid always have been forced to do. (with the exception of 1 fg ML10/dragon farming which is impossible on Mid)

Even though I agree that alot of the Mids have rolled 2 sms, 1 for rvr and 1 for PvE, its still more chanters in Hib than there are summsm specced sms in mid (it seems so to me anyway). So Hibs should still be able to do exactly the same lownumber farming as Mid can. Hell you should still be able to do it alot better than Mid, you still have shrooms, and your bots have decent heals, unlike most mid bots.

So start reading up on ways to Focus encounters, and start discovering ways of utilizing this with shroomers efficiantly!

30 turrets isnt enough attacker bonus debuff for quite a few mobs.

I dispute the fact that youve seen 2 afk anis taking down 20 to 30 red purp mobs, infact, i'd go so far as to say thats pure bullshit, unless you are talking pre 15 shroom limit where it would probably of been possible, or perhaps you mean combined with some pbaoe. You certainly cant afk farm at anywhere near that rate with 2 anis if you had a mind to.

Its not ridiculous, ive got 4 anis for pve, and i'll have no use for 2 of em

2 animists one verd one creeping specced, were farming one of the encounters in Arbor Glen where cyclops continuously spawn (or was it kentaurs, anyway doesnt matter). Was horrible farming, about 2 times the pulls of moderna per wave. And they made it look easy...

Yes 30 turrents is well and enough to bring down the AF of ALMOST ANY mob in the game, but not solo ofc! They are there to bring down the AF so that tanks can hit, but you arent supposed to be able to do it entirely with shrooms. They are an aid, not a killing tool. 30 turrents will make a group of 8 = a group of 38, and thats still pretty darn good.

In the end, you have to see that it is rediculous to have a realm be able to farm Epic mobs like Dragon/ML10 with 1 fg or less of active players? Its supposed to take atleast 30+ to do them...
/Charmangle

 

[Danord_durin]

I thought that was what I argued? That it was rediculously overpowered to start with! I never said it wasnt a heavy PvE nerf, it is, but it brings Hibs more in line with the other realms PvE wise, even on extremly low pop servers.



Now mids Cots is rediculous, its even worth its existance. Its a usless tool that makes little to no difference at all in PvE. (unless you are able to scare up 20-30 thanes/valks in a serg which I myself have never seen)
There is no situation I can think off at all where an ml9 sm pet isnt better than a Cots user. (there are some situations where they are equally usless though, dragon raids for example)

Now focus shield is appliable on almost all encounters, jacinas is still doable with focus shield (takes 2 ml9s + bots + puller), and BoZ is easy as hell to do with 2 ml9 focus shield casters + bots. Its all about learning how to use them, which Mids have HAD to do since they havent got anything else to use when their numbers isnt sufficant.

So yes its a heavy PvE nerf, but there are basically no encounters that arent doable with very very few people still, just using other ways, like Mid always have been forced to do. (with the exception of 1 fg ML10/dragon farming which is impossible on Mid)

Even though I agree that alot of the Mids have rolled 2 sms, 1 for rvr and 1 for PvE, its still more chanters in Hib than there are summsm specced sms in mid (it seems so to me anyway). So Hibs should still be able to do exactly the same lownumber farming as Mid can. Hell you should still be able to do it alot better than Mid, you still have shrooms, and your bots have decent heals, unlike most mid bots.

So start reading up on ways to Focus encounters, and start discovering ways of utilizing this with shroomers efficiantly!


2 animists one verd one creeping specced, were farming one of the encounters in Arbor Glen where cyclops continuously spawn (or was it kentaurs, anyway doesnt matter). Was horrible farming, about 2 times the pulls of moderna per wave. And they made it look easy...

Yes 30 turrents is well and enough to bring down the AF of ALMOST ANY mob in the game, but not solo ofc! They are there to bring down the AF so that tanks can hit, but you arent supposed to be able to do it entirely with shrooms. They are an aid, not a killing tool. 30 turrents will make a group of 8 = a group of 38, and thats still pretty darn good.

In the end, you have to see that it is rediculous to have a realm be able to farm Epic mobs like Dragon/ML10 with 1 fg or less of active players? Its supposed to take atleast 30+ to do them...
/Charmangle

So u cant do mid dragon with low numbers buy a clue.
1 fg with 3 thanes /walks and 4 gate guard is fine for mid dragon just takes 45 mins

 

[Cromcruaich]

I thought that was what I argued? That it was rediculously overpowered to start with! I never said it wasnt a heavy PvE nerf, it is, but it brings Hibs more in line with the other realms PvE wise, even on extremly low pop servers.

Bit and give and take on this, your initial phrase did say that it wasnt a pve nerf (you can look back) however you did a second post after which did phrase it in terms of how op it was to start with. So peace on that one, think we agree.

Now mids Cots is rediculous, its even worth its existance. Its a usless tool that makes little to no difference at all in PvE. (unless you are able to scare up 20-30 thanes/valks in a serg which I myself have never seen)
There is no situation I can think off at all where an ml9 sm pet isnt better than a Cots user. (there are some situations where they are equally usless though, dragon raids for example)

While leveling up on mid, weve founds cots useful on quite a few occasions, having 2 cots users in the group has made a significant difference to how fast weve been able to go through the ml5 group steps for example. But I agree, it doesnt match up to anis.

Now focus shield is appliable on almost all encounters, jacinas is still doable with focus shield (takes 2 ml9s + bots + puller), and BoZ is easy as hell to do with 2 ml9 focus shield casters + bots. Its all about learning how to use them, which Mids have HAD to do since they havent got anything else to use when their numbers isnt sufficant.

Jacinas has been made easier, however, it is tricky with 2 ml9's + bots plus puller. Tell you what, i'm prepared to take you for your word - i'll create a mid character and you can show me doing Jacinas and Boz with setup above. I'm always ready to learn.

So yes its a heavy PvE nerf, but there are basically no encounters that arent doable with very very few people still, just using other ways, like Mid always have been forced to do. (with the exception of 1 fg ML10/dragon farming which is impossible on Mid)

Well perhaps, there are often ways of doing encounters and I wouldn't presume to list ones I consider difficult to focus as they are still probably doable there is a trick to most things - however the key point is that within hibernia the experience has been to use shrooms for a lot of those ml encounters, jacinas, boz & bruiser. To remove that does seriously inconvienance hibernian players.

Are you arguing that they should nerf pve because on duvet hibernians have to much of a pve advantage, or are we just arguing coz its fun? I'm just saying leave it as it is for pve, coz who cares. You saying well with a lot of practice you can then focus those encounters with 2 ml9 focus pullers just seems to be a bit of humbug on your part.

Overall, from a selfish perspective, it would be pain in the arse! I used to use my animist team so i could quickly help fellow players out.

 

[charmangle]

Ive have seen moderna groups where pac healer and a couple of summon sm's plus shammie have taken out 20 to 30 red purps though

Yea! With a skilled moderna group you can take out the entire moderna encampment every pull. But it takes 5 active players...(well its doable with 2 but its a pain playing 3 computors activly per person!:/

Dont get me wrong here Crom, I dont mind having Animists as they are in PvE, since I have 3 myself. But I try to see it from the other realms perspective too, its really not fair. And 30 turrents are well and enough in PvE since Hibs do have other means to do encounters/farming with few people also.

In PvE Hibs will be able to handle their own even after nerf, BUT in RvR this is a devastating nerf for Hibs. Beeing underpopulated on several servers, they do need the Shroom defence option. And 30 turrents in such a big area just isnt enough.

If they as I said made the countable area smaller in the process, so that you could for example have 30 turrents in a courtyard, and 30 turrents in a lord room, you might have a workable nerf. But to keep the area size and lower the amount allowed in it with 70% is rediculous!:/

/Charmangle

 

[charmangle]

Bit and give and take on this, your initial phrase did say that it wasnt a pve nerf (you can look back) however you did a second post after which did phrase it in terms of how op it was to start with. So peace on that one, think we agree.

Yea definitly (and damn that amnesia of mine!

While leveling up on mid, weve founds cots useful on quite a few occasions, having 2 cots users in the group has made a significant difference to how fast weve been able to go through the ml5 group steps for example. But I agree, it doesnt match up to anis.

Ofc it can help abit, but there are better ways in Mid than Cots in almost any situation. For example ml5 is doable in 20 minutes with 3 suppsms. And Cots just wount do anything to lower that time!:/

Jacinas has been made easier, however, it is tricky with 2 ml9's + bots plus puller. Tell you what, i'm prepared to take you for your word - i'll create a mid character and you can show me doing Jacinas and Boz with setup above. I'm always ready to learn.

Damn I like you mate! And Id be happy to show you how to do them! But you are right that they are both abit tricky and quite prone to bugging out when doing them this way, my point was more that it is doable!

Well perhaps, there are often ways of doing encounters and I would presume to list ones I consider difficult to focus as they are still probably doable there is a trick to most things - however the key point is that within hibernia the experience has been to use shrooms for a lot of those ml encounters, jacinas, boz & bruiser. To remove that does seriously inconvienance hibernian players.

I can only agree!

Are you arguing that they should nerf pve because on duvet hibernians have to much of a pve advantage, or are we just arguing coz its fun? I'm just saying leave it as it is for pve, coz who cares. You saying well with a lot of practice you can then focus those encounters with 2 ml9 focus pullers just seems to be a bit of humbug on your part.

Well, no not really, Im saying that the PvE nerf isnt that big a deal, Its atleast handable for Hibs. But the RvR effect is huge...in my opinion Id say at this stage of the game, just leave them. If they were getting nerfed they should have been nerfed years ago.

About the encounters, as I said, Id love to show you or tell you how to do them...just ask me! I think I know how to focus most encounters in the game.

I actually prefere using my chanter over any of my animists (even though all of them are ml9), when I farm encounters with friends...mainly because it feels more comfortable for me as a Mid.

/Charmangle

 

[Cromcruaich]

Got you mid edit charl. You ammended bit on end of your post. Note that you initially started by say 2 afk animists, which is where I had a problem.

Anyway to quote

2 animists one verd one creeping specced, were farming one of the encounters in Arbor Glen where cyclops continuously spawn (or was it kentaurs, anyway doesnt matter). Was horrible farming, about 2 times the pulls of moderna per wave. And they made it look easy...

20 to 30 a pull in arbor, ive never seen that location - moderna allows far bigger pulls than anywhere ive seen in arbor. 2 animists post nerfs cannot deal with continous pulling of 20 to 30 red and purps at a time.

Yes 30 turrents is well and enough to bring down the AF of ALMOST ANY mob in the game, but not solo ofc! They are there to bring down the AF so that tanks can hit, but you arent supposed to be able to do it entirely with shrooms. They are an aid, not a killing tool. 30 turrents will make a group of 8 = a group of 38, and thats still pretty darn good.

Yup, almost any, and thats the point really. But I essentially agree on that.

In the end, you have to see that it is rediculous to have a realm be able to farm Epic mobs like Dragon/ML10 with 1 fg or less of active players? Its supposed to take atleast 30+ to do them...

I dont see it as ridiculous no. Youve been pretty vociferous in saying almost any encounter can be done with focus, isn't that ridiculous by the same store?


Keep pve as easy as possible for people as its boring i say.

 

[Kagato]

What makes u a retard i can tell u quite fast, it has nothing to do with u disagreeing with me. It's just ur general attitude here on the forums wich makes u that.

And u never answered my question regarding how easy it is to counter turrets in sieges did u?

Ah I see, so I state why I think the nerf is harsh but also needed and not as bad as people think in a polite, direct to the point fashion without referance to anybody.

YOU simply call me a 'retard' out of the blue.

And you say MY attitude is bad? go look in the mirror twat. uke:

And I don't call something that can only be countered by 1 ability, by 1 class so long as its spec'd right and theres somebody dead near by 'easy' to counter.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Ooops, we keep editing and quoting each other charl.

I think a good while ago nerfing shrooms for pve could of had a positive effect, now with the dieing numbers I can only see it being negative for hib on duvet. But I must declare a self interest, and maybe it wont be to bad. Anyway, my fg stuff is on avalon mid now, so i'm probably arguing more strongly than I actually feel, certainly on duvet/hib ive done all the pve i'll ever need.

ta for the argument though

 

[Kagato]

yet again you are proove how biast and clueless you are, you sit there playing your little armsman on a bridge and have no clue about anything else do you..... oh i died to that nerf it, oh i killed that with rr5 thats balence and my pwn skill of pressing rr5 ofc.

Stop commenting on things you know nothing about.

Then either back up your childish and baseless insults with facts of why you think my opinion is wrong or shut'it?

 

[Danord_durin]

Ah I see, so I state why I think the nerf is harsh but also needed and not as bad as people think in a polite, direct to the point fashion without referance to anybody.

YOU simply call me a 'retard' out of the blue.

And you say MY attitude is bad? go look in the mirror twat. uke:

And I don't call something that can only be countered by 1 ability, by 1 class so long as its spec'd right and theres somebody dead near by 'easy' to counter.

1 ae nuke can do it aswell easy. 1 ae mezz. etc etc shrooms is so easy to counter. Never seen em as a major problem eccept from the no cap limit days, cause they could lag down a zone.

Oo wait that can't happen on excal/pryd anyhow theese days. Guess why?Cause its only the likes of u around, and luckily there isen't to many of em

But isen't it quite easy to find 1 dead person in a keep siege to rezz?
Its not like there is few Tics around theese days..... So don't even start on that.

When was the last times albs have had a major nerf to any class, oo wait a moment. Albs are so underpowered isen't that what u allways write, so there is simply no need for a nerf to anything
Yet u come here crying like a small baby evry time with nerf this nerf that and its not ballanced if u can't 2 shot it.