Americans why still soo dumb??

[Bunnytwo]

Love the way some people think the EU is a viable alternative to Britain allying itself with the US. The EU can't even organise its agricultural policies, its so corrupt its failed to pass a single audit and as for international relations gimme a break, they even define whats going on in Sudan as not being genocide because then they would have to get off their butts and do something about it. Was also a rather interesting part of that final WMD report that the European press failed to report widely, cos didn't fit in with the Bush bashing that the French and Germans had been taking bribes from Saddam to subvert the sanctions and prevent UN action, yeh I'd like them to take the lead, not.

Though whats even for funny is the way Europeans get all high and mightly accusing Bush of bringing the world to the brink of WW3 etc. Complete joke tbh Europe's track record sucks WW1 WW2 Balkans mmm marvelous. As for the "Oh no the North Koreans, Iran etc are just misunderstood, peace and harmony can be achieved if we all just sit round for a cozy chat" STFU look where got the world when exactly the same BS was said about Hitler "Oh no he just wants to redress the shamefull humilation that Germany suffered after WW1, he's not a threat really and he's not re-arming". Oh and BTW the ever so smart public voted Hitler in, so in the league tables of stupidity the US public has a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Escape]

I can't believe out of the whole of America, his only opposition was a stereotypical 'doomed to fail' candidate. All the pricks end up in politics, which shows the low quality of leaders across the world.

The way the election campaigns are being handled in the US now, would've been a fictional novel 20yrs ago and someone like Bush becoming president could only be in a comedy. Now this shit happens for real and people think airplanes being used as missles is surreal.

Has anyone read Snow Crash? I wouldn't be surprised if america ended up like that for real

 

[Lumikki]

Since God himself made Bush the president and gave him the holy crusade to cleanse the world, how can we even argue about it?!!1

That country is in deep shit, no matter what angle you look at it. It's just a shame we Europeans have to pay such a high price for their decisions. Not that I'm defending the European muppets running with their noses so deep up in his ass, but still.

Would have been nice to see how Kerry would have handled things.

 

[Roadie]

he won cos of a few reasons:
1. He has some pretty damn good propaganda going on! People in rural America genuinely believe that he is making them safer by bombing various countries and for some reason they think people in the "outside world" respect him! (LOL cheers for that Mr Blair). Mr Kerry’s record as a Vietnam veteran and saving some1 in combat or whatever ended up working against him?!?!

2. He is a genuine bible basher (or evangelical or whatever), and so are his voters. They want someone with their views leading their country. This is a pretty big factor because when his daddy won the election this was his ONLY identifiable group of voters, and why did they vote for him? because they knew he had a wildly religious son.

3. The amercan people think i look cool in my anti-bush t-shirt and didn’t want me 2 throw it away xD

 

[Tesla Monkor]

I can't be bothered to write down the glaringly obvious failures in America's foreign policies, and it's laughingly silly internal lawgiving.

I just feel sorry for the 50% that voted for Kerry and expected a better place, as well as the rest of the world who have to put up with another 4 years with that muppet in Washington. Let's hope we survive it.

 

[Bunnytwo]

It's just a shame we Europeans have to pay such a high price for their decisions.

How exactly are you and your country paying such a high price? Please give specifics.

John Kerry's war record if it counted against him did so because there was rather a lot of doubt about how much of it was fact and how much fictional. He didn't help himself by refusing to make his military record public, which to quote the conspiracy theorist like Michael Moore et al "Shows he must have something to hide, or else he'd let us see it".

As for the how can the Americans be so dumb as to accept the war propoganda, could just as easily say how can the Europeans be so dumb as to accept the anti-war propoganda by their governments who were taking back handers from Saddam's regime. Would say clean up your own act before lecturing the Yanks.

 

[Dillinja]

Love the way some people think the EU is a viable alternative to Britain allying itself with the US. The EU can't even organise its agricultural policies, its so corrupt its failed to pass a single audit and as for international relations gimme a break, they even define whats going on in Sudan as not being genocide because then they would have to get off their butts and do something about it. Was also a rather interesting part of that final WMD report that the European press failed to report widely, cos didn't fit in with the Bush bashing that the French and Germans had been taking bribes from Saddam to subvert the sanctions and prevent UN action, yeh I'd like them to take the lead, not.

Though whats even for funny is the way Europeans get all high and mightly accusing Bush of bringing the world to the brink of WW3 etc. Complete joke tbh Europe's track record sucks WW1 WW2 Balkans mmm marvelous. As for the "Oh no the North Koreans, Iran etc are just misunderstood, peace and harmony can be achieved if we all just sit round for a cozy chat" STFU look where got the world when exactly the same BS was said about Hitler "Oh no he just wants to redress the shamefull humilation that Germany suffered after WW1, he's not a threat really and he's not re-arming". Oh and BTW the ever so smart public voted Hitler in, so in the league tables of stupidity the US public has a lot of catching up to do.

You sound like a typical Bush-supporter. Most of what you talk about happened 60+ years ago, Europe has been there and done that as far as shitty political decisions go. Now it seems to be America's turn.

I support the EU because it will be in the best interest of all of the European countries. We won't be led into pointless wars that will cost billions of pounds and hundreds of men and in the end will give us absolutely nothing back... unless of course Bush is willing to give us a barrel of oil or two for all the men that we have lost over there.

And what do you think should be done about Iran, NK etc.? You seem to think that more men should be sent off to be killed, and for what? For another fucked up mess like Iraq? Good idea!

I'm not a liberal, in fact I consider myself to be quite right-wing. I want what's best for my country, and I believe that the EU has much more to offer than America.

 

[Bunnytwo]

You sound like a typical Bush-supporter. Most of what you talk about happened 60+ years ago, Europe has been there and done that as far as shitty political decisions go. Now it seems to be America's turn.

I support the EU because it will be in the best interest of all of the European countries. We won't be led into pointless wars that will cost billions of pounds and hundreds of men and in the end will give us absolutely nothing back... unless of course Bush is willing to give us a barrel of oil or two for all the men that we have lost over there.

And what do you think should be done about Iran, NK etc.? You seem to think that more men should be sent off to be killed, and for what? For another fucked up mess like Iraq? Good idea!

I'm not a liberal, in fact I consider myself to be quite right-wing. I want what's best for my country, and I believe that the EU has much more to offer than America.

Like the Balkans you mean where Europe screwed up and the US helped bail us out? Where we went in without UN mandate against the wishes of just as many if not more countries than oppose Iraq.

But nope Europe itself hasn't got itself into any big shooting matches recently, why because it does sod all, just look at Sudan, what has the EU done there? Rwanda? When has Europe done anything but hand wring? Wont be led into pointless wars, nope won't won't be led into any wars at all, whether they are necessary or not. EU seems to operate on the principle that if don't make any choices can't be held responsible.

Perhaps at the very least if want to help stop conflicts could try not helping countries like Iran to build a nuclear capability?

 

[Qaewin]

Oh and BTW the ever so smart public voted Hitler in, so in the league tables of stupidity the US public has a lot of catching up to do.

Hitler was never voted in.

 

[Dillinja]

EU seems to operate on the principle that if don't make any choices can't be held responsible.

And what exactly is wrong with that? Sounds like a pretty fucking great principle to me. Keep out of other people's business and they'll keep out of yours. Leave it to America to go around the world, pointing more hate at theirselves while losing money and soldiers. We should be focusing on the problems that we have at home, rather than trying to sort out anyone else's problems. It's not like we get any credit for what we are giving to Iraq anyway.

 

[Driwen]

As for the how can the Americans be so dumb as to accept the war propoganda, could just as easily say how can the Europeans be so dumb as to accept the anti-war propoganda by their governments who were taking back handers from Saddam's regime. Would say clean up your own act before lecturing the Yanks.

uhm only the french and possibly the german had contracts going with Saddam's regime of the EU countries as far as I know, so fins (which lumikki is I think) or dutch (which I am) havent had much if any anti war propaganda from their goverment and neither have the english.

 

[Gajinn]

Hitler wasn't voted in?

 

[Bunnytwo]

Hitler was never voted in.

Thats strange cos in 1933, the Nazis received 44% of the vote, making them by far the largest party in the Reichstag. Sounds like voting him in to me.

The idea of keeping out of everyone elses business cuts both ways though. Why doesn't Europe keep out of the US's business in Iraq, why didnt they keep out of Yugoslavia, Israel's business in Palestine? Problem with that is (and hate to go back to WW2 again, but its just such a prime example of where that sort of attitute leads), yeh keep out of Hitler's business and he just keeps on swallowing up countries, saying "Yeh, honest THIS is the last piece of territory I'm after", until the next piece of territory ends up being yours, then lo and behold your own your own cos everyone else is just minding their own business or has already gone to the wall.

People always respond to that "Oh, you can't go on about events back then", really people become so much nicer all of a sudden?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke in 18th Century, yet still relevent in 1930s over a hundred years later and still relevent today.

 

[Chesnox]

Bush won because his advisors and the guys pulling his strings have realised that America, and all that it stands for, only thrives when it has a nemesis. That used to be Communism, now it is Terrorism. Both threats are phantasms (the Soviets were not a real threat after the late 60s/early 70s and the overhyping of the Al Queda/NK/Iran threats are laughable under scrutiny). But a country of the stature of the USA needs an enemy, however perceptibly real or unreal to focus itself on.

All this talk of Europe this, Hitler that, the Balkans in the early 20th century, Sudan, yadda yadda. Pah, pointless piffle. What democratic governments need is a means to focus the minds of its people away from those annoying domestic issues (healthcare, economy, education, poverty, etc..), that any political party, of any hue or leaning, just cannot solve in modern capitalist societies. War, especially on the minute scale that to be perfectly honest, the Iraq 'war' is, works splendidly well. Dissapointing economic performance? No worries, lets big up some pissant terrorist organisation or demonise some backward and econimically crippled Asian country and send the boys to the desert for a year or two. Al for the greater good eh!. On top of that, throw a few emotive political hot potatoes into the mix (abortion, gay marriage etc..) et viola! A recipe for success. Cunning work by the Republicans imho.

 

[Dillinja]

Thats strange cos in 1933, the Nazis received 44% of the vote, making them by far the largest party in the Reichstag. Sounds like voting him in to me.

The idea of keeping out of everyone elses business cuts both ways though. Why doesn't Europe keep out of the US's business in Iraq, why didnt they keep out of Yugoslavia, Israel's business in Palestine? Problem with that is (and hate to go back to WW2 again, but its just such a prime example of where that sort of attitute leads), yeh keep out of Hitler's business and he just keeps on swallowing up countries, saying "Yeh, honest THIS is the last piece of territory I'm after", until the next piece of territory ends up being yours, then lo and behold your own your own cos everyone else is just minding their own business or has already gone to the wall.

People always respond to that "Oh, you can't go on about events back then", really people become so much nicer all of a sudden?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke in 18th Century, yet still relevent in 1930s over a hundred years later and still relevent today.

Saddam wasn't swallowing up countries. He just wanted to keep his own country under control, and he was doing a pretty good job of it considering how bad it has got since he was kicked out.

Now it wouldn't bother me if the yanks had gone off to "liberate" Iraq on their own, that'd be fine with me - if they want to piss even more countries off with their "World-Police" crap, then who am I to stop them? What bothers me is that we, for some unknown reason, are out there fighting with them. I really don't see what was going through that fucking idiot Blair's head when he decided that we should offer support in that war. There was absolutely nothing to be gained from it whatsoever, not even the credit of the Iraqi people. It just boggles the mind.

 

[Driwen]

Thats strange cos in 1933, the Nazis received 44% of the vote, making them by far the largest party in the Reichstag. Sounds like voting him in to me.

well his party got it and he didnt get the majority, so I guess you could technically say he wasnt voted in. However his party was democratically chosen to be the biggest and so the most logical ones to create the goverment, which unluckily the conservative or whatever they were named allowed to do by forming a coalition with them and getting the majority together.
Anyway the thing is Hitler hadnt shown his true purposes back then (he hadnt even ruled the country before that). The thing is the americans re-elected Bush, the way Bush will run his presidency is known. Now wether that is a bad or a good thing is up to the americans to decide, but the germans didnt know that about Hitler.

And I am all for for getting rid off evil regimes, but you have to do it the right way or otherwise you wont help the people in that country (much) and end up making enemies by meddling in other peoples affairs. I mean do the people in Iraq have it now so much better than they had before 1990, before the UN sanctions?

 

[Bunnytwo]

uhm only the french and possibly the german had contracts going with Saddam's regime of the EU countries as far as I know, so fins (which lumikki is I think) or dutch (which I am) havent had much if any anti war propaganda from their goverment and neither have the english.

The dutch oil company Trafigura (Beheer BV) had oil contracts with Iraq and was allegedly involved in the bribery, Dutch companies broke UN sanctions on Iraq during both the Iran/Iraq war and run up to the first gulf war, so no reason to see why they would have a sudden attack of morals and stop doing it.

German and French politicians (though their countries along with Russia were the biggest finicial underwriters of Saddams regime anyway) were as well and lets face it just needs the French to veto and anti war peeps can scream about there being no UN mandate, which will get public support. Though talking of the UN, Benon Sevan, director of the U.N.'s Oil-for-Food Program, was also being bribed.

 

[Tilda]

well his party got it and he didnt get the majority, so I guess you could technically say he wasnt voted in. However his party was democratically chosen to be the biggest and so the most logical ones to create the goverment, which unluckily the conservative or whatever they were named allowed to do by forming a coalition with them and getting the majority together.
Anyway the thing is Hitler hadnt shown his true purposes back then (he hadnt even ruled the country before that). The thing is the americans re-elected Bush, the way Bush will run his presidency is known. Now wether that is a bad or a good thing is up to the americans to decide, but the germans didnt know that about Hitler.

And I am all for for getting rid off evil regimes, but you have to do it the right way or otherwise you wont help the people in that country (much) and end up making enemies by meddling in other peoples affairs. I mean do the people in Iraq have it now so much better than they had before 1990, before the UN sanctions?

Technicly, Hitler was voted in legally. Following the Munich putsch, he changed his policy after he came out of landsberg jail to follow "the legal route to power". After he got elected, he consolidated his power through intimidation with SS, Storm troopers etc. So that he really became a dictator, when the enabeling(sp) act came through giving him emergency powers.

So yes, Hitler was elected by the German general public. Please dont make me write a long essay on why and how he was!

Tilda

 

[Driwen]

Technicly, Hitler was voted in legally. Following the Munich putsch, he changed his policy after he came out of landsberg jail to follow "the legal route to power". After he got elected, he consolidated his power through intimidation with SS, Storm troopers etc. So that he really became a dictator, when the enabeling(sp) act came through giving him emergency powers.

So yes, Hitler was elected by the German general public. Please dont make me write a long essay on why and how he was!

Tilda

what I meant was that HE wasnt, hell his party didnt even got the majority. So technically the fractions in the parlement gave Hitler the power. Not that it makes any difference, but that was why I used the word technically.

And Bunny USA companies (or the USA self) had violated those UN sanctions themself. Doesnt really mean that the goverment knows about it or has propaganda against it. Also before the first gulf war, Saddam was seen as a semi ally of the west after it he wasnt so there is a difference.
Besides if the dutch goverment was anti war than why are we in Iraq now helping or if we were so anti war than why did the goverment say that they were for getting rid of Saddam, but just not without UN support (well they didnt say it in those words, but it was the general drift). Basically if the dutch goverment would have spread any propaganda than it would have been pro war not anti.

 

[Dillinja]

American companies are just as bad or worse. They were funding the IRA for years while British people were being blown up by them. They have no doubt been involved in many other shady dealings that we are yet to hear about also.

 

[Robot]

The scary thing is, that now Bush and his group of high powered mutants have 4 years to do whatever the fuck they want I mean its not like he has to care about the next election, as in the USA the longest you can be in term is 8 years.

So if you think the things he done before now were fucked up, just wait to see what happens next!!

 

[Bunnytwo]

Anyway the thing is Hitler hadnt shown his true purposes back then (he hadnt even ruled the country before that).

Really thought he had been quite open about his attitudes to the Jews and the Slavs prior to being elected. If remember my history correctly the Nazis had openly physically attacked Jews years prior to their election and had made no secret of their intention of removing them from Germany, they attempted to violently overthrow the government in 1923. Just a couple of quotes from Mein Kampf:

"The Russian Empire in the East is ripe for collapse; and the end of the Jewish domination of Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state" (Went on to say Germany would seize territory to create land for the Aryan race to live in (doesn't take genius to figure what would happen to current occupants)

"Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end satanically glaring at and spying on the unconscious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood with the ultimate idea of bastardizing the white race which they hate and thus lowering its cultural and political level so that the Jew might dominate."

Don't really think the Germans didn't know what they were voting for tbh. Got violent party who say the Jewish race and Slav are sub-human and that Germany need to drive them out and take the lands of Russia etc have to be bit slow on the uptake if somehow think Hitler isn't a nasty piece of work. Then again after the war of the people who had been living next to concentration and extermination camps miraculously not one seemed to have the slightest clue what was going on in them.

 

[Bunnytwo]

what I meant was that HE wasnt, hell his party didnt even got the majority.

By that same measure how many of the current European governments are illegitamate because they weren't voted in by 50% or more? Would say at a guess almost all of them.

And the point about Dutch sanctions busting was in relation to the statement of doubt about the Dutch being involved in it. They were, they just werent quite as up to their necks in it as some others. As for the "oh the Americans were just as bad if not worse" thought the Europeans were supposed to be the guiding light for the future, not helping to cause the problem.

 

[Ning]

Germans voted for Hitler because they had to pay their food with 3 tons of coins because of the huge inflation due to the American crack at Wall Street in 1929. Basically Hitler hided his racism and promized a better economic future.

 

[Driwen]

By that same measure most of the governments in Europe are illegitimate cos most of them are coalitions.

sigh

I just said that Hitler himself wasnt elected by the people. Blair isnt actually elected to be the prime minister by the UK people, he is by the parlement and so is german chancelor and the dutch goverment. That is just technically though and by not having someone chosen as chancelor or prime minister doesnt somehow make them illegitimate, it just doesnt make them directly chosen by the people.

And the germans didnt know that Hitler would kill all Jews and would start a war against whole of europe. Hitler might not even have known that he would kill of all jews and possibly not know that he would start a world war. Atleast that is talking about in 1933.
The germans should have (and probably did) known that Hitler would make jews into second rank citizens at the least and would somehow make Germany strong again. However again that doesnt mean that he would put them into concentration camps and would start a war against France, the UK and Russia.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Sigh

Well you could argue that they didnt know about exterminating the Jews, however you can't about the war against Russia because he actually said that was what he was intending to do.

German hyperinflation kicked off in 1923 when it hit 854,000,000,000% and was mainly as a result of the reparations imposed on Germany and the stripping of German industry insisted upon by France. Im not saying that the Germans didn't have their reasons for voting Hitler in, I'm just saying they did know where he stood.

As for the bit about the electorate not voting for Blair, well technically they don't, but in reality they do, I think if you asked the British public who they voted for even on election day itself they would reply "Blair" or whoever the leader, I very much doubt if even 10% of them could recall the name actually next to the box they ticked an hour after they had done it.

 

[Aoln]

I really don't see what was going through that fucking idiot Blair's head when he decided that we should offer support in that war. There was absolutely nothing to be gained from it whatsoever, not even the credit of the Iraqi people. It just boggles the mind.

Possibly "we need to stop this evil man" (some people think of him like that) or "America is powerful, lets get on their goodside!" but definately must of been thinking "We owe American billions and billions of pounds we dont have, best not piss them off or they might start requesting it".

 

[Morchaoron]

'spose I'd better start getting fit in preparation for WW3. He's going to piss off NK or China sooner or later, and then we are all in a world of shit.

whaddaya gonna do? stock up Iodine pills, lots of food and build a lead-walled basment?? xD

 

[Vindicator]

Ye he got voted back in and probably shouldnt have been. I think people need to stop looking at the past in so much detail. People Never learn from it anyway and insist on making the same mistakes over and over so you can twindle on it and talk about how Country Z did this and effected Country A in such a way.

Fact of the matter is that the US was and is in Shit regardless of who there President is. They really got the muslims Pissed and The 'Holy' War is upon our Generation. Funny to Note that Nostradamus predicted the Sand man would end the World at around about this time period ;>. It's pretty Hard to fit the times he gave for events to happen because the Calaendar has been fubar'd so much that its off by Years in any Direction is as good a guess as you or me could suppose.

There's Nothing but Finger pointing Going on here anyway, people pointing at Bush and blaiming the World's problems on him and others Counter Pointing at other governments saying it was either partly or there Fault. It's best to see the US as a Trigger to problems the world was going to have to deal with anyway and ever other government has its own effect on this Triggering in there own way by either there action or just as equally there lack of Action.

The world will change drastically over the next 4 years thats for sure and nobody can be sure how its going to turn out for anybody European / American / Korean etc but all you can do is continue on with your lives and hope the people you voted in do the Right thing for the World, your country and your well being. If you didnt vote then you shouldnt be commenting or telling people who did what wrong and when etc as you cant be arsed to effect change. Im sure the '" But im only 1 vote " statement will rear its ugly head but if it does thats the head of ignorance. 1 vote can indeed make the difference and its not really about that, your vote is expressing your opinion as best as you saw fit. Or as close to your opinion as it could get based on the choices left to you.

So Strap your self in and Enjoy the Ride!

 

[Marc]

I would rather stick 2 fingers up to the EU and go it alone with america. EU does fck all for us except tell us how to live our lives and then shit themsleves when they gotta get their hands dirty. Wankers the lot of em.

Long live america